#194 - Marina

S0 E194 - 6/4/2024
In this episode, Adeel speaks with Marina, a UK-based dental nurse originally from Romania, about her recent discovery of misophonia and her journey understanding and dealing with it. Marina shares her childhood experiences growing up with an alcoholic father whose habits, such as teeth picking, triggered her misophonia. She reveals the difficulties of having her condition misunderstood by her family, leading to a strained relationship. Marina discusses the relief and validation she felt upon learning about misophonia and emphasizes the importance of community and speaking out. She also talks about her career transitions from law to dental nursing, prompted by a desire to contribute during the pandemic, and how this change provided a work environment free of her misophonia triggers. Marina highlights how understanding misophonia has improved her relationship with her fiancé, and they share insights into how partners can become protectors for those with misophonia. The episode wraps up with encouragement for others to share their experiences and find solace in community support.


Adeel [0:01]: Welcome to the Misophonia podcast. This is episode 194. My name is Adeel Ahmad and I have Misophonia. This week, I'm talking to Marina, who is living in the UK. Like many others who have been on the podcast recently, Marina only recently found out about misophonia and has been learning as much as she can and has been diving into the book Sounds Like Misophonia by Dr. Jane Gregory and I. We talk about the challenging environment of her childhood. with an alcoholic father there's mention of some abuse in the home so i want to note a content warning there her family life became quite strained due to their lack of understanding of what she was going through and we talk about various coping methods including makeshift ear plugs and finally leaving home for university and we talk about her fiance and how he's been coping with her misophonia and her interesting career journey, initially in the legal profession and now as a dental nurse. Great conversation, and it's exciting to hear someone find solace in speaking out about misophonia and finding comfort in the community. After the show, let me know what you think. You can reach out by email at hello at misophoniapodcast.com or hit me up on Instagram or Facebook at Misophonia Podcast. By the way, please head over, leave a quick rating wherever you listen to the show. That really helps to drive us up in the algorithms and reach more misophones. A few of my usual announcements. Thanks for the incredible ongoing support of our Patreon supporters. If you feel like contributing, you can read all about the various levels at patreon.com slash misophonia podcast. This episode is also sponsored by the personal journaling app that I developed called Basil, B-A-S-A-L. Bazel provides AI-powered insights into your journal entries and guides you with new writing prompts daily based on those insights. You can explore many different therapy approaches and modalities. It's available on iOS or Android. Check the show notes or go to hellobazel.com. All right, here's my conversation with Marina. Okay, great. Well, let me just say, Marina, welcome to the podcast. Great to have you here.

Marina [2:20]: Thank you so much for having me today. It comes as such a relief to be able to talk about this.

Adeel [2:29]: Of course. I'm glad you're here. So, do you want to tell us a little bit about where you're located?

Marina [2:35]: Sure. So, originally, I'm Romanian, you know, a little country in Europe. But I have been living in the UK for the past seven years now. I live here with my to-be-husband. And, yeah, I'm located in Ascot, which is where the horses are, like, races. Oh, yeah. You know, Windsor.

Adeel [3:03]: Windsor Great Park with the castle all very royal you know yeah up north a little bit I think it's south south okay okay south is England yeah gotcha awesome have I been to England yeah oh yeah yeah I've been a couple times actually just recently about a year and a half ago mainly London and it's about an hour away from London Okay, cool. Right on, right on. So, yeah, I guess tell me a little bit kind of what's been going on Misophonia-wise. Sounds like, I think you mentioned, you know, you just, I guess, got the book, Sounds Like Misophonia. Yes. Did you recently find out, you know, that it had a name? Like, tell me about your kind of journey that we could work backwards, I guess, to childhood.

Marina [3:54]: yes i will actually work um backwards um so i have only found out about the name from a book i was reading about two months ago wow the book was called um a pocket full of happiness by richard e grant he is an english actor that i very much adore um And I was reading, like it's a really easy read. And then he mentioned the term. He's a misophone as well. So he mentioned the term. And I'm the kind of person who, when he reads, especially because I'm multilingual, if I don't know a word, I'll always go and research it. So I'm like, what is misophonia? He said he suffers with it. So what is it? And then there was like a little bracket where he briefly explained what it is. And I'm like, oh, my God, like a eureka moment in my life. And as I said, this must have been about two months ago. So really recent.

Adeel [5:08]: Right.

Marina [5:09]: I took it from there. You know, I just Googled the term and it was rivers and rivers of information that directly applied to me. So it came at such a relief. And you know what? There were so many tears along the way because for decades, I actually thought I'm going mad. know for i mean i'm 31 now and i must have had misophonia since i was probably 10 or 11. that's my earliest memory of it and um it all started with um my dad so he um he was slash is an alcoholic, but now he's more controlled. But when I was growing up, it wasn't controlled. And when you're an alcoholic, you're not obviously in charge of your mental state. And so you do things like snoring, picking your teeth. This was probably my main issue. So he had, obviously, alcohol affects your teeth in many ways. um and so his teeth became really bad by by the age i was probably about i don't know 11 or 10 and so whenever he was eating after he finished eating he kept on picking at his teeth in a really really annoying way and um I was just, even at that age, I just was asking him to like stop and he wouldn't. Yeah, he would just say that it's me and, you know, things like that. And at that age, you also don't have credibility, so nobody believes you.

Adeel [7:21]: Right.

Marina [7:22]: Put up with it. And so it grew to be... a very... a very... heartbreaking experience for me to the point where i would just exit the room or always look for ways um to not to be around him anymore at that age were you able to connect the uh teeth picking with the alcoholism or was it just something at that age that you thought was annoying so ever since i remember my dad had bad teeth really and i put it down to alcohol drinking and he also did a bit of smoking but not so much smoking and then obviously his diet wasn't that great so the combination of the three in my head were making his teeth go bad but yeah my dad never ever had good teeth and um

Adeel [8:29]: how is that like temper dysregulation with the data company

Marina [8:35]: he's so if if i had brought it up he would be really angry to the point of like aggressive towards me um but even yeah and then even like but in general when he's drinking a lot was he just you know hot tempered as well yeah even yeah yeah okay yes i had always put it down to the alcohol because you know it impairs your judgment so of course um you're going to be a different person when he was sober he still did it but not as much and not as um ignorantly like rarely he would pay attention you know that i'm in the room but as i said i didn't have credibility at that age so nobody believes an 11 12 year old girl who tells his um

Adeel [9:32]: parents to stop doing that because it's just not um yeah it's it just comes from the wrong person yeah what um what was your um i guess relationship like with your dad and your parents before that or was he i guess always alcoholic

Marina [9:53]: Yes, ever since I can remember my dad and my mom, we were subjected to domestic abuse. Yeah, I had always put it down. His teeth picking and snoring, especially, I always put it down to that. And then, of course, my mom ended up picking up her teeth later in the years, probably when I was about 18, 19. So... yeah but in time uh my misophonia developed from clocks ticking so i i found myself in an office about two to three years ago and i was on my own And I had to take the batteries off, out of the clock. I just could not stand it. It just triggered exactly what your book says, Sounds Like Misophonia, Dr. Jane Gregory with Adeel Ahmad. It triggered exactly the fight or flight.

Adeel [11:01]: Right.

Marina [11:02]: Exactly that. Again, I repeat myself, such a relief to know 20 years on that I wasn't losing my mind in all this time.

Adeel [11:16]: No, no, absolutely not. And yeah, there's, as you know now, probably there's many, many, many of us. And it's interesting how similar the situations were. I mean, just a few little things that I've heard from you in the last few minutes, the alcoholic environment, you know, at home, early childhood. you know, witnessing dysregulation and domestic issues. You know, these could be just, you know, you're, and you're recognizing that you're a child with little credibility. You know, a child at that age needs to, it's developing and needs to figure out a way to protect itself and look for warning signs. And, you know, maybe... The warning sign is going to stick a little too long into adulthood, but I feel like there is some really cause and effect there. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, as you get older, it's glad that we've all kind of connected, but I think you'll find a lot of commonalities and hopefully some of the coping methods or at least just the camaraderie can kind of help. So I guess what was your, did you have any siblings?

Marina [12:31]: I don't, no. I'm the only child. Which made it worse.

Adeel [12:38]: You don't have anyone to kind of... Do you feel like that?

Marina [12:43]: Because I do. You know, you have this back and forth conversation with your sibling, maybe, I don't know. Probably in an ideal world.

Adeel [12:53]: In an ideal world, but you'd be surprised, even if you have siblings, it's such an isolating feeling. You still feel very different. You look at other people and most people are not going to have the same reaction. So you immediately start to feel isolated. And then having that communicated to you that it must be you, we just kind of internalize it. and so um yeah sometimes it helps to have siblings to share things but um i find even with siblings most people bottle it up okay so because i don't have any i just saw that yeah

Marina [13:37]: like this channel of communication and you know of sharing oh i feel this about my dad do you i find this annoying about my mom do you yeah so it's it's kind of like you're bottling it all up and then you can share it with your sibling but I think that's idealistic here.

Adeel [13:57]: It would be, but you mean other kids, it's hard for even other kids to understand. It's hard for adults to understand, especially other kids your age, whether they're your siblings or not. It's not an easy thing to understand. And there's always a risk that it'll be turned against you in teasing.

Marina [14:15]: Oh, yeah.

Adeel [14:17]: So I guess, yeah, I mean, how was like the rest of your life, social life and whatnot around childhood and growing up?

Marina [14:25]: I was very isolated, but I was isolated because I chose to. So because I had what was going on at home, I always felt embarrassed. I always thought that my family is sort of an embarrassment to the society. I never really sought the companionship of my other fellow colleagues or friends. I just preferred to be alone. And I actually had put it down to the stress that I was going through at home from that early age. Yeah.

Adeel [15:09]: Yeah, that makes sense. Were there other, did you experience other kind of overlapping comorbidities? By comorbidities, I mean other conditions that kind of developed?

Marina [15:25]: adhd maybe or um no so i'm not diagnosed with anything yeah um probably if i do look deep down there will probably be some sort of i don't know antisocial just something something must be there because um i'm not i'm not antisocial now But I still prefer my own company.

Adeel [15:49]: Yeah, yeah.

Marina [15:51]: And that's, sometimes it's for fear that, you know, if I go out and engage, then... Something's going to chew gum.

Adeel [15:59]: Something's going to chew gum.

Unknown Speaker [16:01]: Yeah.

Marina [16:02]: Yeah. I do think, but not massively, like not deeply. So if I take the decision today to meet a friend, I wouldn't... think it oh my gosh is he gonna pick his teeth or is he gonna clear his throat which by the way my to-be husband is doing that and i'm having a an absolute nightmare with that uh yeah so that's another thing the clearing of the throat that's one of my top ones yeah yeah i obviously love this man so i want to marry him but it it does pose the question like oh my goodness is it a temporary thing like he's gonna not a temporary thing it's a morning thing gotcha thing like he would wake up probably in like two hours now and then He explains to me that phlegm accumulates and then he needs to clear it. But, you know, in my head, if you've cleared it once, you should be clear of it for some time. But no, it's continuous and it drives me mad. So I just either leave the room or it does pose actually big questions. Yeah, misophonia has deep ramifications. Definitely.

Adeel [17:26]: Yep, yep, yep. Yeah, no, I have definitely thought the same thoughts. Yeah. How many times does it take to clear this thing?

Marina [17:37]: Yes, exactly. Exactly that.

Adeel [17:40]: So, okay. So, I'm curious, well, I mean, sticking with your fiancé, I mean, obviously you just knew it had a name a couple months ago. How did, does he know about this phone yet? Has he known about it? So, I...

Marina [17:56]: I told him on an underground ride really casually. I was reading your book actually. Okay. And obviously it's got this, your book is really bright, isn't it? Like it catches attention. Like everybody on the internet is like, what is that? It's not a tiny little pocket book or something.

Adeel [18:18]: It's a big light blue bright book, yeah.

Marina [18:21]: The letters are big. And then on top of it, it's got two huge headphones. And I'm wearing the headphones, like the exact headphones.

Adeel [18:29]: We should give away the headphones with the book, yeah.

Marina [18:32]: Yeah, you can imagine the reaction I got from the rest. He saw me reading it. It was the first time he saw me reading your book. So he just gives me a side look, like, what is that? And then I took my headphones off and I started explaining to him what is it. And he just didn't take me seriously. He said, oh, that's another condition, isn't it? Like, you know, like a sign. I'm like, oh, thanks.

Adeel [19:02]: Mm-hmm.

Marina [19:03]: You know, so he was a little bit brash first time round.

Adeel [19:07]: A little dismissive, yeah.

Marina [19:09]: Yeah, a little bit dismissive about it. And then I put my headphones back on and I'm just like, okay, I'm going to disconnect from you. And then I think the day after he said, oh, what was that about? And I, you know, I just explained to him. And he was like, oh, wow, I just didn't realize that there's that condition. And I said, yeah, it comes a relief for me to know that I, you know, I have it. And he said, well, I suppose you can't marry me now or something like that, because he's got the throat clearing. And even that, I thought, is like cheeky for you to say. A little bit, yeah. You're still not treating it seriously. Yeah. I think that's the thing I encounter. So, you know, I spoke with colleagues at work about it. I mean, one woman in particular, not all of them. And then... my mom and then him and first of all they've never heard of misophonia and secondly they treat it not serious like something that can be dealt with really easily upon switch out of it like you know click out of it yes i've heard that a lot yeah

Adeel [20:31]: yeah i mean on the surface so a couple things there um i mean to be fair i guess you know it is easy to get defensive about something and it's probably related for him to get defensive about a lot of people get defensive when you you know broach the subject of a sound that you're making is you know having such an effect on me it's easy for them to get defensive But it also just does sound not serious. If you were not to kind of like think about how long we've had it and kind of some of the conditions that were going on in our lives from back in the day. If you don't know all that, yeah, it just seems like, well, why can't you just not think about it or move your attention away? It's not... On the surface, it doesn't seem like it's a very deep thing, but for any of us who has it, we feel it so intensely and deeply that it's hard to bridge that gap. Absolutely. So, um, so yeah, you, you mentioned, um, did, I'm just curious, the last thing about your, I mean, your, he sounds like he didn't notice that you were reacting to his throat clearing. Were you like doing, have you been doing glares like over the years and, and kind of, how did you deal with it? Did you just kind of like keep it to yourself? Did you ever mention any of this to him before?

Marina [21:59]: Yes, yes, yes. So he, he knew about it. Like we would go on holiday and, um, we always chose the local sort of restaurants. We don't go sort of fancy dining and all of that. And with local restaurants, there's obviously a lot of noise, a lot of sort of people exiting, eating really closely to you. And I would always have the, like I would, if somebody, if I heard somebody pick their teeth, I would instantly activate my meerkat mode, which is mentioned in the book, which is, oh my gosh, again, such relief and an enlightenment to read about. Because again, you think your mind is going crazy. You are a misophone yourself, I read.

Adeel [22:50]: Oh, absolutely.

Marina [22:51]: You will 100% understand everything what I'm saying. And again, it's such a relief to talk to somebody like you. So yes, we would go to these local restaurants and I would hear somebody picking. And then I would watch out where the noise comes from. I would try to spot that person in the crowd. And once I spotted it, I would stare.

Adeel [23:18]: I would stare like a... Oh, you'd glare, not just stare.

Marina [23:24]: I would glare and stare and become really aggressive in my own demeanor and get sweaty palms and try to think, oh my gosh, I'm only doing my starter. I've got my main to come and I can't bear it. I can't bear it. So I would eat much quicker. And of course, the usual response would be, oh, you're just mad, you know, like, you can't hear it. I think that was the thing I had, like, you're just mad, you're just like, you hear things. Or once... Gaslighting, just, yeah. Things like, you know, you just hear things. um and the same happens like at home for instance with the tap dripping i would always like we would sit and watch tv and then i would hear the tap and he's like how can you hear the tap because the volume is you know really hard the tvs how can you hear it but i would hear it because my mia cat mode

Adeel [24:29]: Yeah, because it's not about the volume. It's about the sound. It's about being enraged by selective sounds. And I think the meerkat is looking for danger. It's not assigning it to real danger because something is different in us. But yeah.

Marina [24:51]: Yes. So yeah, throughout the years, to answer your question, throughout the years, I did display signs of it, like, obviously. But I was always sort of told that it's just me, you know. Yeah.

Adeel [25:12]: So you said you mentioned it to some of your friends, well, co-workers, I guess. Have you mentioned it to friends? Do you have anyone who kind of can relate?

Marina [25:22]: not really because obviously like in anything if you don't hear it being spoken about you think it's just you yeah yeah which is again a very wrong thing to have in life because you know it's not just you like the big problems in life I don't know. I'm not going to draw analogies right now because I'll make it really dark. But it's because nobody else spoke about it. And I never heard anyone speaking about it. I generally thought is just me. And then if I speak about it, I would be deemed as some sort of weird, weird.

Adeel [26:06]: I think you're probably in the majority of people who have it kind of have not discovered it, despite the awareness going up. So that's, yeah, that's a very normal thing. I'm glad you found out about it. But yeah, that's a very normal thing.

Marina [26:19]: Not to speak about it.

Adeel [26:22]: Yeah. And I think a lot of people just don't even know about it.

Marina [26:26]: I know. I know.

Adeel [26:27]: Unless they come across books like the one you did or they happen to Google for it. A lot of people actually Google for like, why do I hate this sound? Why do I hate that sound? And that's one way they've discovered it.

Marina [26:42]: Okay. I didn't want to do that because then Google would recommend some really... You'd get all these ads. You know how it works these days. You Google one thing and the next thing you get all these things. Yeah. Yeah. But that doesn't mean I didn't want to solve my condition. It just means I suppose I just didn't want to be a weirdo. Yeah.

Adeel [27:07]: So how were you coping over the years? Was it just doing the glare and eating really quickly and just kind of getting out of situations? Did you ever kind of really lash out at all?

Marina [27:21]: No, I never openly lashed out to anyone. But I would become aggressive about the circumstance to the person I was with.

Adeel [27:32]: Yeah, just get really agitated.

Marina [27:34]: Yeah, very agitated, very angry. Basically, in his words, you're ruining it. And I'm like, I'm not ruining it.

Adeel [27:43]: Yeah.

Marina [27:44]: I'm just, yeah, I just can't bear it. Snoring-wise, so as I grew up, we were... we were we had basically space limitations so my mum my dad and i were living in the same sort of room in my grandfather's house and so obviously it became It became a little bit of a hell with snoring because when you live in just one room, you can't escape that. And so I would sort of break little pieces of paper. and then chew them up and stick them in my ears but you can still hear it just make me go to sleep but i would still hear it uh but many times you know to answer your question fully i would actually cry i'd actually cry because you because i couldn't escape that and because i wasn't understood because nobody out there shared what i shared and i that was the hurtful part and yeah

Adeel [28:57]: How did it then affect your relationship with your parents? It sounds like there was other stuff going on, but I'm curious in terms of closeness and connection.

Marina [29:08]: That's a very good question. So at 19, I left home to go to uni. And it was such a relief. Oh, my goodness. It was as if God has put his hands on my shoulders. It was that kind of a relief. Because I thought that's the end of my dad snoring, my dad picking his teeth. And, you know, I'll have a little space to myself.

Adeel [29:36]: Mm-hmm.

Marina [29:39]: And for the first six months, I shared a room with another four girls, which is, you know, because of money, money limitations, I had to share the room. And then for the other six months in the first year of uni, I was able to rent out somewhere where I had my own place. And that was heaven. That was heaven on earth.

Adeel [30:01]: Yeah.

Marina [30:03]: But going back to your question, I am not close and emotionally related to my parents because I actually blame them for not understanding me. um and i've only recently resumed uh you know contact with my dad who i who i was in touch with since i left uni but i i got in touch last year last april um but um so because i live in the uk now every time i go to romania um i am thinking whether to go and see him but I'm afraid he would pick at his teeth. Probably his teeth got worse, much worse. I don't know what the state of his teeth are. I know he's still drinking, but I know it's a bit more controlled. Like, he's no longer sort of... I mean, I don't know. I'm just assuming these things because I haven't been in touch. I don't know, but... Yeah, he's just more controlled now. So I definitely felt a relief when I left home to uni, for uni. I left it, I felt as if I'm being released from some sort of chains or something. It was that kind of release.

Adeel [31:34]: Yeah. When he said, because they didn't understand you, was it primarily because of Misophonia or were there just other parts of Marina that they didn't get? Like overall.

Marina [31:50]: well i don't know as i said i was a pretty lonely child like i didn't see anyone at this company um and i became very close to my mother we were we were close in harsh hardship as i put it now so my mom didn't drink she hated my dad for drinking um but um are they still together they're not together no no no definitely not no they they're not together for about over a decade now okay for this reason obviously yeah you know alcohol has a lot of ramifications it's not yeah it's not just self-damage it's it's a lot right yeah it is i i don't actually know how to fully answer your question um

Adeel [32:44]: I suppose... I think you answered it, yeah. I mean, you might have more to say, but I'm just curious if... Yeah, I'm always curious because it's been a personal experience with me, how it affects, you know, because you want to be isolated, because you get triggered so much in those formative years when you're supposed to be nurturing a connection with your parents, how it affects, you know, how it potentially distances you from your parents.

Marina [33:13]: Yeah. That's exactly that.

Adeel [33:16]: Yeah.

Marina [33:17]: I suppose I just built a shield against my dad because of what he was doing to me and how he never believed me. And obviously there's a lot of suffering involved when one of your parents is an alcoholic. And then on top of it, picking at your teeth, I'm like, why aren't you stopping? I used to think growing up, I'm your only child and I'm asking you one thing. Can you just do it for me?

Adeel [33:47]: Did you ever put it that way?

Marina [33:49]: Yeah, I did. In my head, I was a really mature child. Even as I was growing up, everyone I was interacting with, they were like, oh, you are mature for your age to say that. So I think I developed in a very inward way. rather than outward way you know people are like extroverts and all of that i just wanted to be me myself and i all the time and because that was safe so i knew that it's me if it's just me i can make it safe if i allow you know, my mom or my dad or friends or people in my life, they can destabilize this balance of peace of mind. And I actually didn't enjoy that thought very much.

Adeel [34:38]: Yeah, Marina, that's a very deep statement that I think has a lot to do with misophonia. I'm glad you said that. Yeah. Safety is a big part of it. And then that's why the meerkat is, I think, looking for danger. Yes. Yeah, that's a great way you just put it. I definitely want to quote that. And so I guess, what about, switching gears a bit, like there's misophonia, there's misokinesia, the visual triggers. Have you noticed that? Yeah.

Marina [35:11]: yes um not so much like obviously like seeing somebody pick their teeth it would instantly cause me to put my headphones on or disappear like i'll give you an example i was in a waiting lounge i was flying to dublin some about 27th of april about just just under a month ago so and i was in the waiting lounge there was this lady in front of me um picking her teeth you know she had she had really prominent jaw like big teeth and i'm like oh my god this is like six in the morning right So I put my headphones on, but I found myself still staring.

Adeel [35:58]: Yeah.

Marina [35:58]: Yeah. It was like even though I didn't hear it anymore, I was just staring, staring, staring. And then in the end, I just left. But I was still looking for her. I was praying. When I got on the plane, I was praying she wouldn't sit next to me. But she went further back. And I thought, oh, my gosh. So she's there around me. She's still here.

Adeel [36:25]: Yeah, the staring is amazing. Somehow we are just fixed. At least for me, I think I'm just like, how could this person still be doing this thing? Is this person still going to continue doing this thing? I think you alluded to that earlier, talking about your dad and others. But yeah, it's a bizarre sensation.

Marina [36:44]: Yeah. I mean, I don't want to get to the point where I would... i would tell people to stop i think i think i'm a bit sheepish for that i i yeah i i don't think i would have the courage to face somebody about it because in today's world that could mean a slap or that could mean swearing at you or that yeah worse

Adeel [37:14]: Yeah, it's also draining. I mean, even despite all that, it's just draining to get that dismissed reaction. Yes. And so, and if like, well, we could talk about how stress and other things exacerbates it, but ratcheting up the tension can kind of make things worse, but also drain you energetically afterwards. So I sometimes try to do that calculation. Is this like, is it, am I going to feel worse actually bringing it up, potentially getting shut down, and then I'm like thinking about it for the rest of the day and I can't do anything? Or somehow just get through it like I have for the last 30 years.

Marina [37:59]: Yes. What's your way of dealing with it, by the way?

Adeel [38:03]: Well, I have a magic, no, uh, no, it's, it's, it's not, um, it's, I mean, it's not any much different than other people. Um, you know, there's, uh, obviously there's, you'll, you'll, you'll read some exercises in the book that you can kind of do in the moment. Uh, well, just to kind of, to just kind of get you to, um, re, um, I don't know, think about the sound in a different way, uh, or think about it in a humorous way. Um, one thing, uh, something I focus, try to focus a lot is i've you know i've made i've made similar connections at least in my in my head i've connected it to similar experiences like that you've had with your parents and learned learned about you know the need for to feel safe and whatnot so i do a lot of like um inner child soothing talking to my inner child or talking to myself interior in an you know inside and just telling myself that i'm safe that yeah this sound is not a signal of danger um yeah i tried to do that you know if i can remember trying to do that before i go into a situation or just be very even even if um You know, I feel something coming up. I just try to just be in touch with my nervous system and feel where I'm feeling tension and just try to soothe that part. You know, obviously it takes a lot of attention away from the situation, but at least it's not like a glaring at something. I just try to... yeah i just try to calm down inside yeah um it's it's not easy it's not like coming down from just you know getting mad at somebody um because it's it's something deeper that goes back to you know childhood um in my view and so uh on top of that obviously i have the headphones and the noise cancelling stuff and you know leaving the situation my ones are noise cancelling thank god Yeah, I don't do earplugs so much because I just need cancer.

Marina [40:07]: They don't do anything for me.

Adeel [40:08]: Yeah, sounds like you've had experience with the chewing paper and stuff.

Marina [40:13]: Yeah, as I said, I never in my life thought I would be able to speak freely about this. I thought, oh my gosh, I'm going to go through life being so weird.

Adeel [40:29]: no not at all i mean obviously you're here you can speak freely here you can speak freely with anyone who's come on the podcast and and i think uh um well in the uk by the way there's a huge community um and so you know you could probably a lot of have talked to a lot of people there there's a lot of research going on there and so um there is i found um because obviously in between um

Marina [40:56]: scheduling my podcast with you and I actually got in touch with a talking therapist from the NHS and I'm having a an interview or like an assessment on this coming Monday and then I got in touch with Oxford Research Group which I think they were really They're really great. So they said, we do have specialists in the house who can help you, but please first go through the Talking Therapies NHS, which is the stage where I am at.

Adeel [41:38]: Well, that's cool. It sounds like, I mean, if you have it coming up on Monday, that sounds pretty quick. I've heard things taking a lot longer, but that's great. And I mean, obviously, you know, Jane is in Oxford, so that might be her group or some, I'm sure she knows about it.

Marina [41:53]: Yes. Yeah, no, they have in-house specialists. So, I'm so happy that there's more talk about it. Because like in anything, if there's more talk about it, people give it credibility. They recognize it as a condition. Maybe a documentary can be made to explain. I was actually listening to one of your podcasts. It's my to-go podcast when I used to work. So you had online a woman, a screenwriter, and she made a little short during COVID time about somebody experiences misophonia. So he was a misophone. The actor was misophone himself. And I was going to watch that video on YouTube. It sounds terrific, actually.

Adeel [42:52]: Oh, you're talking about, yeah, you're talking about the recent one with Bahar, who's from Iran? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that's actually... it's funny that's it there's no words there's trigger sounds um but it's only like 13 minutes it's it's meant to be kind of a musical about yeah covet times there is a um i've had jeffrey scott gould who actually directed a documentary on misophonia back in 2016 i think it was and so that's kind of the one of the first ones where you'll see like interviews with people who have misophonia and actually

Marina [43:26]: Oh, I know of that one.

Adeel [43:28]: Yeah, look it up. I don't know if it's available, where, if and where it's available for streaming in the UK.

Marina [43:34]: But yeah. How is it called again? Sorry.

Adeel [43:38]: Pardon me?

Marina [43:39]: How is it called?

Adeel [43:40]: Oh, it's called Quiet Please.

Marina [43:42]: Quiet. Oh, how cute is that?

Adeel [43:47]: So yeah, you'll at least definitely see a trailer and you might be able to catch it online. But yeah, I mean, there are more people doing like short films and whatnot to explain Misophonia, like students. And so it's great to see people wanting to, yeah, get the word out and explain it in different formats.

Marina [44:08]: Oh, absolutely. I also signed up to Misophonia International. yeah no no I'm I'm not part of the community because I feel included for the first time in my life yeah and if you hear if there's anyone yeah if there's anyone on the podcast you want to reach out to I mean everyone's been very open to connect with other people I was listening to like I listened to quite a few of the episodes you know Rob in Liverpool as well oh yeah

Adeel [44:40]: he had a really good description about it like oh my goodness i was like i was like ticking boxes in my head yes i also have that yes yes it was it was enlightening in life yeah yeah i think you'll enjoy yeah yeah i guess i have almost 200 episodes but a lot of them are people in the uk you'll find you mentioned um i guess is your mom still in romania

Marina [45:08]: yes okay and you said that she still is kind of dismissive of it right so she doesn't think it's serious she just thinks like you know just i can just um like it's just a mood of mine yeah she just doesn't doesn't validate it as a condition right Yeah, which is sad because obviously, again, as a child, even though I'm 31, I'm still her child. I will always look for validation from your parents. You always look for validation, don't you? You look for that like on Instagram and ridiculous. So therefore, in the wider context, you always need the protective shell of your parents. You know, they need you to be there for you. But in this context,

Adeel [45:55]: for this instance none of my family understands or validates what i'm experiencing have you ever gotten accommodations like you know you mentioned i think that you've talked about it at work a little bit i'm kind of curious what has your kind of job history been like and how has it affected it so by training i'm a lawyer Okay. So you can throw people in jail for picking sounds.

Marina [46:23]: That would be fantastic. No, no, no. I'm joking. I'm joking. i'm joking yeah in no way i intend to ever criminalize this behavior sure let's talk afterwards maybe we can uh but um by sort of by trade and by need i had to um take up a different course a different track a different industry when the pandemic hit i couldn't get a training contract which is what you need in the uk to sort of be able to practice so i started being a nurse a dental nurse which is what i'm doing right now but i'm looking to go back into law because that's you know that that's who i am by training um And I always thought, again, like a weirdo that I thought I am. Oh my gosh, what if I get into an office? And you know how they are. They're all on their computers. And somebody starts picking their teeth or that clock annoys me. Like I'm going to be seen as mad. They would literally put the cuffs on me. i work from home in my attic so no one no one sees me fantastic i'm in a garden sort of shed right now and it's my heaven on earth yeah yeah yeah it's my space there's no clocks there's nothing ticking there's no one picking their teeth there's no one clearing their truth there's nothing like that it's my spot and it's amazing um

Adeel [48:03]: Yeah, I mean, you know, we've talked about picking teeth and throat clearing. I'm sure people are wondering, like, dental nurse. That seems like an odd choice. Yes. Not to, I'm not being dismissive at all, but it's a curious choice.

Marina [48:19]: I haven't got any hidden sort of meaning in why I chose this. Like, oh my God, I'm going to get into the profession and kill every single one. Like Sweeney Todd. It's nothing like that. No, as I said, when the pandemic hit. um obviously people weren't looking for lawyers the world needed nurses and consultants and all of that um and so i decided to not to stay at home for my age obviously there was a lot of people staying at home for like medical reasons obviously you didn't want to get infected so i wanted to help my community generally and my local dental surgery was we're looking for nurses like i think all the uk is because they're all going to australia now oh really yeah yeah there's quite a lot of migration actually happening And I just decided, you know what, I don't know how the pandemic is going to last. I can't be a lawyer sort of just waiting for things to happen. So I just decided to go off track and retrain, have to retrain. Although it's not as such a hefty, you know, training course, but it still is because it's healthcare and be a dental nurse. Now, Being a dental nurse or working in dentistry is a really structured work and I'm comparing it to sort of A&E or any other healthcare setting. So we work by appointment only. So nobody's going to show up and sort of, oh, I've got a toothache or anything like that. No, no, no. It's very controlled. The people I work with, the three dentists I worked with by rotation, they're exceptionally nice. None of them have got annoying habits like picking their teeth, clearing through. So it's like heaven, isn't it? Like, wow, this is normal.

Adeel [50:31]: Yeah, that's great.

Marina [50:33]: The community of nurses, again, are amazing. And none of them have actually got any habits that trigger my misophonia. So, yeah, for three and a half years, I've been there. I've learned a little bit of health care. I've obviously done that. But now I'm kind of ready to go back into my law thing.

Adeel [51:00]: Yeah. Now you understand teeth, so you're going to sue the pants off anybody who doesn't take care of their teeth.

Marina [51:07]: Perfect. Yeah. I mean, as I said, you've only got one life. You need to do and profess more than one thing. Yeah. You know, you need to widen your world a little bit, not narrow it to just one thing. That's how I think anyway. I mean, some people would sort of be lawyers since 18. But bear it in mind, I only moved here seven years ago. you know it's not that easy to um to enter the legal profession and all of that however the question now is um when i switch professions when i revert back to the legal profession will i be able to build a community or enter a community of professionals which do not trigger my misophonia like that is that that's gonna haunt me because obviously the legal profession is very much court work office work you know you have to interact with clients with victims and all of that so how am i gonna deal with it i don't know but your book is is a is a great great um you know, guide and actually Bible because I highlight in everything. So your book is like now pink and green with all the exercises and the nerdy detour, as you call it, which I love that. I absolutely love it. So, yeah.

Adeel [52:55]: Fantastic.

Marina [52:56]: It's going to be a tricky one ahead.

Adeel [52:59]: Right. But yeah, I wish you the best. I'm glad you at least know about it now and you're, you know, taking steps to learn about it more and connect and, and hopefully that'll just having this, just having a little bit more awareness about it and awareness of what's going on when it's going to pop up will help you. Yeah. In work and in life. Well, I mean, this might be a great place to end it on. I'm curious, you know, if you have anything else you want to share now.

Marina [53:31]: Probably just, you know, I would encourage everyone to speak about it because it's soothing. It actually soothes your soul. it does i think it's just so such a because it connects to such a a deep schism yeah whatever happened and as your book states uh there's different um there's different levels so you might be you know moderate you might be severe there's different levels so jokingly and ironically about two days ago i was eating a croissant next to my fiance i was getting ready to go to work and he was doing his breakfast you know very healthy version of like muesli and blackberries blah blah and i was eating a crusty croissant next to him and he was like he looked at me gave me like a side glare He was like, can you just not do that? And I said, ha, caught you. You have moderate misophonia. He said, no, I don't.

Adeel [54:37]: To be continued.

Marina [54:38]: To be continued. Exactly that. To be continued. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Adeel [54:45]: Well, I mean, obviously, I hope he doesn't have it, but I hope that at least maybe it opens up a little bit more empathy.

Marina [54:51]: It does. You know what? You have a lady in your book, Christina, or Christiana. Yes. So she describes extremely well how partners of misophones develop a defensive barrier. So, you know, if somebody would pick their teeth... and we are sort of outside, my partner would sort of become aware of it himself, then sort of try to protect me from that. So they develop a sense of like...

Adeel [55:30]: oh you know perhaps the meerkat is mode is activated within them as well yep i think because i think it's absolutely i think i think it's uh a partly also an evolutionary thing i mean i think partly miss phony is affected by some evolutionary need to protect ourselves and then but that also carries on to people who wanted to protect us it's like a like a chain reaction or a domino effect at some level It doesn't always happen, but I think, you know, evolution is an experiment that doesn't affect everybody the same way. And I feel like, you know, this is a set of circumstances that makes sense that you potentially are, that you have that mere sense because of some sense of protection that you're trying to develop. And then your partner may be also trying to protect you. Obviously he loves you. Yes.

Marina [56:23]: Yes.

Adeel [56:26]: So that's why sometimes I listen on a positive note. But, you know, obviously, Miss Phonia, terrible. Don't want it. But there is some beauty in it, if you think about it that way.

Marina [56:36]: There is some beauty about it. And to be quiet is the most blissful thing that can happen to me.

Adeel [56:46]: you know any background noise except sort of bird noise or anything really is awful well let's yeah forget about the the bird noise but yeah maybe it sounds like a great place to end we will fade into quietness again and I'll just say I mean a fascinating conversation lovely conversation glad you came on glad you were able to talk about it and yeah I wish you the best Thank you again, Marina. Great to have you in the community and love your message about needing to speak out about Misophonia. If you liked this episode, don't forget to leave a quick review or just hit the five stars wherever you listen to this podcast. You can hit me up by email at hellomisophoniapodcast.com or go to the website misophoniapodcast.com. It's even easier just to send a message on Instagram at Misophonia Podcast. Follow there on Facebook and on Twitter or X. It's Misophonia Show. Support the show by visiting the Patreon at patreon.com slash Misophonia Podcast. The music, as always, is by Moby. And until next week, wishing you peace and quiet.

Unknown Speaker [58:26]: Thank you.