#198 - Exploring Community and Coping Strategies in Misophonia
Transcript
Adeel [0:01]: Welcome to the Misophonia podcast. This is episode 198. My name is Adeel Ahmad and I have Misophonia. This week I'm talking to Klaus, an executive in Germany. He shares his experience with misophonia and how it has affected his career and personal life. We talk about growing up in an early family life that was very old fashioned and rigid and where he also had a brother who presented signs of possible OCD and parents who just couldn't understand and were constantly trying to discipline. He discusses the challenges of working in open offices and how certain triggers can disrupt his focus and cause stress. Claus also explores the idea that being in an active and engaging environment can help distract from misophonic triggers. He reflects on the role of rigidity in misophonia. And finally, we discuss the value of connecting with other misophones and forming communities for support. After the show, let me know what you think. You can reach out by email at helloatmissiphoniapodcast.com or hit me up on Instagram or Facebook at Missiphonia Podcast. By the way, please do head over and leave a quick review or rating for every listener of the show. It really helps to drive us up in the algorithms, which helps us reach more listeners. A few of my usual announcements. Thanks again for the incredible ongoing support of our Patreon supporters. If you feel like contributing, you can read all about the various levels at patreon.com slash Misophonia Podcast. All right, let's get to it. Here's my conversation with Klaus. All right. Well, Klaus, welcome to the podcast. Great to have you here.
Klaus [1:45]: Yeah, I'm super happy to be here. Big fan of your podcast.
Adeel [1:50]: Appreciate it. Yeah, do you want to tell us kind of where you're located?
Klaus [1:55]: Yes, so I'm in southern Germany. I am now in my late 50s, so I have about 40 years of, well, 45 years of misophonic experience, if that is a thing. Oh, yeah. And... and yes i work in a big international company and well it started a bit rough but during during a couple of years i had a very good time there and was able to climb up a little bit the ladder so i i was lucky to to to get rights for an own office, which is a big thing and a big company because we all know how we can suffer or not even function in open offices. That's been a stream of luck I had, so I'm very grateful. But okay, in the end, right now, I have I struggle nevertheless with the dual stress of being
Adeel [3:24]: in a rough job and while the the mesophonic things from time to time they they really bring us to our edges and right yeah that's interesting we can maybe talk about that a bit like you're if you're if you've been elevated to kind of like upper you know higher on the ladder you probably have to interact with a lot of people probably a lot of other important people in the company and have to make big decisions does uh you know does it ever get to the point where you're in a big meeting or boardroom and it's very stressful and then you're because you're just kind of taken out of the moment because of uh somebody's you know chewing something or making a weird sound
Klaus [4:06]: Yeah, that is really something that was threatening to kill my career for a couple of times. But I think for myself, when I'm embedded in something that is active, where I contribute, where there's positive stress, then I feel a bit better and more protected from from the misophonia then for example if I am having to work well I would not be a good software developer if I've been that was 30 years ago I would not be a good one because in this calm environment the triggers would would threaten me much more even light triggers like keyboard and you you know all this classical stuff i i'm i'm in fact quite a classical case with all these things in a meeting itself well thanks god gum gums are not so accepted anymore improved a lot in the last 10 years, I would say. Yeah, well, sometimes it's difficult, but I cope in a meeting by trying to bring forward my cases, be active, and that distracts me from the triggers. And in many cases, that helps a lot, and I can get along in meetings. It is harder if you're not the active part of a meeting. Yeah. When you have to listen to trainings, for example.
Adeel [6:05]: Yeah, I could not do those, right? I've been in those trainings. You get to a big company and then suddenly you have to be trained or you have to go to those... those leadership training things and have to go into small groups. And then it's, you know, you have to worry about who you're with for the next two hours.
Klaus [6:27]: Yeah, of course. We all have this scanning. Where would I be rather safe? Yes. And do I have to go on the front row to not feel the others in the back? Or do I have to sit in in the last row yes i'm doing all this but my experience is when you're active when you're distracted when you're thrilled by the subject i can cope better than if you have to be passive and listening and
Adeel [7:06]: That's interesting. That brings up a theme that I've been thinking about and I've mentioned on the podcast about how when you feel your authentic self and you bring that kind of your own energy, your own authentic spirit, I feel less vulnerable to misophonia. And that might have something to do with when we were children, many of us were in environments where we were kind of... scared of something or felt like we were not able to be ourselves and in a stressful environment that first I've noticed that that correlates to a lot of the origins of misophonia or that that period in our lives so I wonder if that has something to do with it when you when yeah when I'm in a meeting I'm kind of an entrepreneur too when I'm in a meeting when I'm coming up brainstorming ideas and talking about things uh I don't think about misophonia but when I'm trapped and i'm having to listen or somebody else is you know saying stuff that i don't agree with that's when i feel like i feel a bit more prone um yeah absolutely yeah yeah that's
Klaus [8:16]: this is then perhaps even helping i i sometimes think you can you can even um lower your your trigger responses um when you are um you remember the tom dozier doja methods of when i read his book and in some cases in some areas i think he he has a point uh we we we might be able to lower uh some trigger responses by being exposed in certain situations i don't think the way he does it would help me but what helps me is imagine i'm doing something that i really like the best is not feel trapped at all so for example gardening where i can go where i want where i'm in my my whole body is it's a movement and then And I do something thrilling like planting new tomatoes. Okay, not everybody finds that thrilling, but I do. And in this situation, I sometimes notice some triggers that would bother me if I lay in my sunbed. They don't bother me anymore. I once had a trigger that was really, really hard for me to cope with. And with these kinds of exposures, I managed to cope with it. It went almost away then, this way. So perhaps, I don't know, I think here we can say it, no? The triggers, no?
Adeel [10:11]: Oh, yeah, you can mention trigger names, yeah.
Klaus [10:14]: Yeah, so in this case it was a bird chirping. I once had an experience as an adolescent where I saved a bird who fell from his nest and I tried to raise it. It was a kind of a mockingbird, some European version of it. after after a day or two it really triggered me enormously and i didn't know what to do and i couldn't escape because the whole the the poor bird depended on me and so this way i developed the trigger of bird chirping And it was a real, real difficult time for a couple of years because birds are everywhere, at least in certain seasons. And then exposure to birds is when you do outdoor sports. And I came into liking mountain biking a lot. And in the beginning, there were some problematic days where I couldn't stand the birds. But then I got used to it a little bit during mountain biking. And I did it so often that one day I really lost my bird chirping trigger. But this was the only one I ever lost, honestly.
Adeel [11:50]: You lost and it's still not a trigger for you.
Klaus [11:54]: it came back you know in a very stressful moment in my life but it was lost for for a while and in this this is i think uh a way where we could perhaps develop some i don't know some some coping or even therapy around that i mean you You need, well, I need at least a good combination of something is really exciting for me. I'm distracted by that. Perhaps i'm not trapped at all physically so i i don't need to sit in a chair and then this combination of things and then you feel healthy you feel strong and this combination can then help you to be in such a positive state that there's a deconditioning of the trigger slowly with a lot of exposures. Unfortunately, you need a lot, a lot, a lot. I hope this way one day somebody could try to develop something that helps us. It's just so hard to create the good conditions.
Adeel [13:15]: Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, I think people have thought about, because we know stress in general exacerbates misophonia. But yeah, it's interesting. Perhaps there could be some therapy that involves not just de-stressing and thinking about triggers, but also something that's very personal that excites, being able to do something that's personal that excites us, not feel trapped. feel stressed and then maybe introducing some of the triggers that combination might be something that i yeah i haven't really heard about that as a therapy but that i like that um
Klaus [13:50]: I think it is very hard to set up, especially for a therapist.
Adeel [13:58]: You can't just set up a garden in their office and try to do it. But I think it's something that we should all be thinking about and try to find opportunities to do that in our homes. Consciously spend time on our passions and maybe listen out for sounds and see if we can kind of balance them.
Klaus [14:20]: I sometimes imagine it's like a tipping point. When everything is perfect conditions, then you could tip. towards the deconditioning. But of course, unfortunately, it's not really tipping, it's slowly moving. While unfortunately in the other direction, in your youth, you surely had some distress when you developed the trigger. And then the tipping point, unfortunately, is much faster in the negative direction. And you condition the trigger. So, yeah, well, it's hard work to reverse it. so hard work that we rarely succeed to do it. Yeah.
Adeel [15:14]: Yeah. It's funny. Yeah. I mean, I feel like it's, it's, I mean, maybe it's a bit of a cliche, but we have less time to, to think about and do these kinds of things. You know, it's like when I feel like, you know, these days when, when, when does somebody have time to like consciously sit down and try to do some of these exercises, it's, it's gets harder and harder. And maybe that's why more and more people are, you know, stuck with misophonia. Um,
Klaus [15:38]: do you want to go back to maybe kind of your i'd love to hear kind of maybe your origin stories when you were an adolescent or even younger and when you first kind of noticed misophonia yeah the story um how i developed misophonia is almost classic i remember it very well so i grew up in a middle-class family that was rigid i would say old-fashioned My parents were perhaps a bit stressed with building house and stuff. I had two brothers and in one of these years, I think I was 11 or 10, my elder brother, who's one year older, he developed a kind of OCD that showed well there were some things at the table that he did not he was not able to tolerate for example if you let a bottle open on the table a bottle of water because we drink sparkling water we drank sparkling water so he became aggressive when somebody didn't close it well And he lost that. But and then. the ambience was always destroyed because my parents were quite overloaded with this kind of odd behavior and so the ambience was always bad and especially there was a lot of well my parents tried to discipline my brother there was physical abuse and then he developed misophonia against one trigger of the jaw sound of my mother. So I remember myself, I sat there and I felt this is not a nice ambience. I want to get out of here. And I had some sympathy for my brother. Because I felt the whole ambience as being rigid and too strict. And then my brother, in fact, transferred his misophonia to me. The jaw sound of my mother also triggered me. Later, all eating sounds of my mother. And then something... interesting was my brother my elder brother he is a very extrovert guy so he is always lashing out and this did not always do him good things as where he he was he was getting a lot of How do you say that in English? Punishments. And I sat there and I became more and more introvert, so I bottled it up. So then when we grew older, so this happened during one, two, three years. I don't remember that, but it was a repetitive thing every time we ate. So I hated going home to have dinner or lunch. It's been the same, but basically. So and my... So my brother then moved out or he came really home and I was an introvert. I tried to escape. And now I think a month ago or two months ago, I asked my brother, and how did your misophonia develop? And he didn't know the word. um and then i explained him and they said ah that um it's not a problem for me anymore um so and it was quite severe at the dinner table so i wonder whether it's not one of these good things when people lash out, when they're extroverts, instead of bottling it up. So my brother is really very extrovert. As soon as something is not according to his will, he's ranting. Well, he would not have a good time in a big... firm he's working for himself so he has a little company so but just working alone but i i really wonder and that should be explored by by science in my opinion whether whether um extrovert people who don't bottle up uh the things whether they in the long term not uh cope better with uh misophonia than than the introverts yeah that's very interesting Yeah, well that was my start of misophonia and then it spread out to almost basically everything that is classic. Until I then moved out of home and as a student I went into a small town where it was very cheap to study. and there I did trice therapy and in this Well, they didn't know at that time. I mean, we talk about the late 80s. They didn't know what therapy is. But nevertheless, perhaps it helped me to try to overcome. Well, I remember to overcome some parts of it, some parts that lead to just always making it worse. For example, the shame and guilt. I think most of the introverts, they feel that. Strangely, my brother didn't. But it makes things worse because then you have distress even because of your guilt. So I developed, and I think today it's been a good thing, I developed a principle for myself. Each time there is something and I don't know how to address it, a trigger, and I don't know how to address it, which happens ten times a day, at least once I'll address it and overcome my inhibitions to do so and my shame and guilt because I want to be able to do that. so i during years did that once a day i overcome this inhibition and over time i got i got better i think and sometimes you can turn a bad situation into a good one for example by connecting to people sometimes the guy that is triggering you in the end is not such a bad guy at all as you imagine you just need to address it correctly he doesn't want to hurt you address the correct way you can even be friends afterwards it's it's possible so i i tried that and that helped me a lot so i i became less introvert i had more activities among people and in the end I did get much, much better during the years that I studied.
Adeel [24:12]: And by addressing it, did you mean telling the person to stop making the sound?
Klaus [24:18]: Well, it depends on the situation. For example, if somebody at that time, the people that smoked had this cigarette lighter Zippo, I think you remember what I'm talking about. Yeah. That awful sound, I mean. The most awful sound I can remember. So in this case, of course, you must address him and tell him, please, that sound is unbearable for me. But in some cases, it's like people are loud and having a party. And then perhaps you find a way to sneak in and be part of that. So, each and every situation must be analyzed and perhaps there's opportunities. And this is what I gave myself as a homework. Every day, once. And sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes you make a fool out of yourself. But you have, how can you overcome shame and guilt?
Adeel [25:33]: Other than just face it. Face it and then be proud of yourself for that. That you did something. Most people don't.
Klaus [25:43]: And sometimes it works very well. People even apologize and ask you... You can connect to them in a very friendly way. Sometimes it doesn't work. People just say, mind your own business and... Right. Interesting. So this is what I thought saved me a little bit from this negative trend that I had before during my student years. And the trend went much better until I was faced with the perspective to have to work in offices shared with others.
Adeel [26:27]: on computers that was then again a hard time for me right and so this takes us again well maybe going back a bit like what did your parents think as you were growing up about misophonia i mean it sounds like with your other brother they were quite not happy about what he was what he was going through did they notice that you were um having reactions to their sounds
Klaus [26:54]: Well, it was so severe that there was no way of hiding it. So they sent me to doctors, a lot of doctors, which I also wanted to go because I wanted to know what's wrong with me. At that time, nobody knew what it is, all your other guests. my generation and they all said the same at that time. The reaction was just get along with it and it's annoying. Well, in the end, what I remember is once I had an appointment with a doctor that knew my grandfather. And he did say something like, oh, this is tragic. Something is transferred from grandfather to son. So it looks like my grandfather had it. But I don't remember my grandfather. He died before I was nine years old. I really don't remember him very well. But it looks like he had it also. it runs a little bit in my family and what is also for me a parallel there's a correlation i think in my family there runs also a certain rigidity so you once had a doctor on on the podcast who does a kind of an exposure therapy. He doesn't have misophonia himself. I forgot his name.
Adeel [28:50]: I think you might be talking about Ezra Cowan.
Klaus [28:54]: Yes, I think so. And he developed a theory that it has to do with rigidity. And when I read that, well, I wanted to read his paper, but I didn't find it on the internet without paying some fees. So I just read the abstract. But in the abstract, I was struck by his parallel to rigidity. And perhaps he has a point there, in my opinion. And that's another thing we can work on. If there's a... factor of rigidity. I mean, all this is just factors and genetics is also a factor, but you cannot do much about that, not yet. But I think during my student years, knowingly or not, I really worked on being as little rigid as possible. I rejected perfectionism in a lot of areas. I was chaotic and enjoyed being so. And I think all this helped. Because, I mean, it can be a factor. You are rigid. things have to be this way if not you don't like them and then things are not this way it's a little factor to distress and you are a little bit closer to develop a trigger so when you just when you just like things the way they are i mean i'm talking about a stage way before you develop a trigger um right when you when you start with I don't like that the way this is so you're closer to a trigger one step I don't know in which how many steps you need to develop trigger but I well somebody talks too loud and then he says this is nonsense and I want to concentrate of some to something else yeah I really want this other thing now being my focus and nothing else. So step by step, you'll come closer to having the boundary conditions for a trigger, for developing a trigger. At least I function this way. And I cannot help it, but I try. And one of the things trying is I try not to be rigid. I try to not develop vision how things should be i do that i do that naturally but i feel uh be careful because as soon as you are too rigid you will be again in danger of the next turn right you're vulnerable to right right you're vulnerable to something breaking your bubble i i didn't know i didn't think this way explicitly until I read this abstract of his paper. So from there on, I don't agree with the rest he said, by the way. It's a little bit... funny to see when you see all these people you had that do therapy on your podcast and those who don't have misophonia themselves they sometimes can understand misophonia but they are wrong with the treatments in my opinion not just your opinion yeah there's even even even therapists I mean so I would next time I would seek help a therapist who has misophonia himself didn't yes yet i think that perhaps somebody is listening then he should advertise it i have misophonia um i'm not just talking about something theoretical come to me i if i cannot help you yeah that's the thing i think yeah i think that the people yeah people who advertise that they are providers they should
Adeel [33:23]: flag whether they have misophonia or not because I think a lot of people are are trying to consider themselves therapists just having learned about it but it's not the same as experiencing it because I feel like a lot of the research is still not really it's definitely missing the mark and it's a lot of the reason is because they're obviously when you read these papers they obviously don't understand really what misophonia is even even in 2024 um yeah so when i when i uh but yeah whenever i you know hear about a therapist that's the first thing i wonder is do they have misophonia or not because that that makes a huge difference Hopefully in the future, it'll be a little bit more, it won't be that much of a dividing line, but at this point, there seems to be quite a gap.
Klaus [34:11]: Yeah, you had a couple of young people who go into that direction with Misophonia themselves, so the future will surely bring out a couple of bright minds that then hit the point a bit better.
Adeel [34:28]: yeah yeah how about um how about getting into like i don't know friends and fan you know or family as an adult like how how did you deal with mississippi did you tell them what was going on yeah well the um the in the past uh in fact i um
Klaus [34:50]: I didn't tell them I have misophonia when I didn't know the word. Well, I think I learned about it seven or eight years ago. Before that, I had no ways to describe it except for I have this odd thing. I didn't get any very positive experiences. So I did it to friends where I had to do it because, I mean, if not, the triggers would be too much between us. But I tried to avoid it as much as possible and tried to cope with it. be weird sometimes it's better than telling them what's going on um right well even my wife had trouble to to yeah what course she found out so i had to arrange a little bit how we do eating together and yeah but um but she had trouble to really um understand it and and what is what is um what is not ideal i mean um i think it's not ideal if somebody tries to protect you from the triggers by doing overdoing it yeah But how can they not overdo it? How can they find the line between what is necessary and what is not? I mean, it's so hard for them, so it's better not to tell them. I would recommend people who are friends with misophonia to not overdo it, but be very quick to correct if something looks like it's triggering. But not overdoing, not anticipating it. I mean, it gets weird.
Adeel [36:59]: Not shining a big spotlight on it. We don't want to think about it. If we see that they're walking on eggshells, that just stresses us out even more.
Klaus [37:11]: um yeah that's definitely something many people have said so thanks for yeah thanks for sharing that what my wife for example does well is when we go in a restaurant she lets me choose the table and she's patient because sometimes i go in one direction and then say oh oh no i changed my mind i go into the other direction and then then she is patient That is okay. But she should not go herself and find out where there could be a possible trigger because, I mean, she... Right.
Adeel [37:49]: Yeah, that's great. Do you have any other little things that you do with your wife to kind of like navigate it a little bit?
Klaus [37:58]: I am very happy that my wife, she loves eating, watching TV at home. Ah, very good. Yeah, well that is helping a lot. And well then I need my safe place so I have a room for myself and it belongs to me and there I can be safe wherever I need to get out of the way of something. I think everybody should organize that. That's very helpful. Well, in preparation for this meeting I thought about my coping skills. The first coping thing that I found is when I was 15 and it was really hard for me to sleep. and i found there's a german brand of earplugs that is called oopax and it has a funny story because they they started it in the first world war for the soldiers and this way The army bought them for their soldiers and it's wax and soft. You once had an Italian lady that was also a big fan of soft wax earplugs and these are the best and they're still the same as 110 years ago. For me it was a game changer to be able to sleep because in sleep I am very sensitive to triggers. What I also discovered in my youth years and it's still working fine is valerian right what's that it's um it's a plant that is a little bit sedative and it works very well for me you have pills you can buy them in the in in the pharmacy probably i am not so sure um in how far they are not then well in in in the united states you have always brand names and you you don't talk about the ingredients you talk about the brand names in europe yeah you are more talking about the ingredients the the substances um and and this perhaps oh so valerian v-a-l-e-r-i-a-n i'm sure yes i'm sure it works you don't need a prescription it works you take one one of the strong one or at least I take one half an hour later it takes off a big part of my anticipation anxiety and calms me down it is it is it is like like going from a trigger that goes down from nine to six, let's say, which is already a lot. So each time I have to face a hard situation like an exam or a test or something, I take that. It's not that sedative that you will not perform. You will be excited enough. But this is really something simple, cheap, and can help you through some difficult situation where you know in advance you can't escape the triggers. It helped me a lot. Yeah, well, and then?
Adeel [42:10]: Yeah, that's good. I just found that, yeah. Valerian root.
Klaus [42:15]: I'll try it. I would love to ask. I didn't meet other misophonic people, but people with other anxieties, they also occasionally take that. other coping skills sometimes really be active and be doing yourself a lot of noise I saw in one of your podcast somebody said We tend to be afraid of doing noises ourselves because we know how it is being triggered by noises. But isn't that a trap? Because other people perhaps might not be triggered at all. But we walk on eggshells. We have a... an elevated level of anxiety not to be triggered but also not to make a lot of noise to trigger other people right it shouldn't be just it's added stress that exacerbates our nervous system yeah yeah so it's um well of course you have to do that in a in a cultivated way but uh I think, for example, I had to travel a lot in airplanes. And in airplanes, it's hard. It's hard. You cannot escape. And you have to behave. You cannot lash out. Right. So what can you do there if the ANC headset is not strong enough? I mean, I look forward to the next generations. I hope they can cancel 100% of the noises one day, but they're not yet there. So my coping skill in an airplane was always to try to come into a lively discussion with somebody. so my poor neighbors sometimes didn't escape and I didn't know them but I said okay no shame no guilt no no I I just I just forced him to talk to me I'm exaggerating a little bit so when I when I describe it but but sometimes they are super happy um because they're bored or afraid themselves or whatever but it it helped me a lot to cope with things because i well sometimes there's triggers of a certain certain intensity that you can well that i can fade out when i'm really distracted And if I'm not distracted, they will build up in their intensity level without me being able to do anything except being distracted. So my coping skills are trying to be active and engage in something. Yeah, that's a great one. it's the same it's the same i mean when when when the children of the neighbors uh making sound you could try to well play with them instead of instead of just being triggered by the noises yeah right instead of just kind of like in our heads kind of like cursing out them and uh just spiraling out yeah it's yeah it sometimes works and then it's it's it's such a great thing when it works but it doesn't always i have to admit yeah right so that is one of the what about like oh yeah any other uh company methods yeah well um in terms of um of meditation and yoga and mindfulness. You had a couple of people in the podcast who thought. So what I did from my youth times on, when I started with the misophonia, I did autogenic training, which is a bit old-fashioned now, but have you heard about it, autogenic training? I don't think so, no. I think it is something like PMR, progressive muscle relaxation technique. Well, developed in Germany, so it's a bit more popular in Germany. And yes, I did that. But honestly, I'm not, well, it can help to calm you down. Be a calm person if you're not triggered. like any other meditation technique. But it never helped me to really cancel triggers or tempt them directly. So I'm not totally convinced that for everybody mindfulness and these kinds of triggers, these kinds of things work against misophonia. It can help them to become a people perhaps.
Adeel [48:03]: Yeah, but I think going back to what you've said a couple of times here, it's not just being calm, but I think also engaging in something that you love or just engaging in general, getting your energy out there helps.
Klaus [48:17]: um yeah that's something i wouldn't definitely be keeping in mind what about like visual triggers do they do they accompany you yeah oh yeah yeah yeah my visual triggers again it's like like many others it's it's when people touch their face so oh so when when this um fashion for beards uh came back 10 years ago the number of people who constantly touched their faces were unfolding and that was so the gum disappeared but this came so and I mean there yesterday I had a funny coping mechanism in one of the meetings online meetings in work somebody fidgeting too much and then also touching but anyway he triggered me visually and i i took a post-it and uh put it on the screen on his face and i thought this looks funny so if somebody's then then the the the whole setup rearranged you know when somebody is presenting something uh the the the tiles uh rearranging you have to follow it with a post-it. And I always put a post-it on the guy. Yeah, it helped me. So you could, of course, try to find a way how to stop the video, but I didn't. So I put a post-it on my screen to not see the visual trigger. I mean, it can really be a problem in a meeting also, visual triggers. So yes, that will be a stressful meeting.
Adeel [50:17]: What about at work? Have you told people that you're in Mississauga?
Klaus [50:22]: Yeah, I thought about it a bit. And of course, they see me acting weird sometimes, being stressed, being impatient. um but i did choose not to say anything because when when i'm in other in meetings with other managers where we decide about i don't know a new building do we do individual offices or open space or that kind of decisions and i i really feel how little understanding there is for us or for our kind of people. Sometimes you see some conflicts in an open space office and as a manager you need to interfere, you need to make sure the conflict is not escalating. And then you talk among managers about it, and I feel like there's zero understanding in my colleagues for this condition. So I did choose not to say anything. But the odd thing is, two months ago, I went to the guy in our company that is responsible for helping handicapped people. um so you have every company you have one i don't know what's the correct term for it you know what i mean And I told him, I am saying you now something that I've never told anybody in my almost 30 years of working career. I have misophonia and I would like to know what is possible in terms for that, in terms of accommodation. Accommodating. Accommodating. And then I asked him, do you know what misophonia is? And he said, yes, I know it because I have it myself. So that was the first guy I ever met who... He declared that my brother has it. I have a couple of other people where I have the suspicion they have it. But somebody who really declared he has misophonia himself, it was the first guy. But anyway, despite all the understanding, he confirms what I feel. It's simply bad luck. There's no recommendations. yeah except for the the the the quick wins like uh being allowed to have had to have uh headsets and and that kind of things so right right i mean it's yeah that's interesting it's hard i think we we we might we might really think about the young people who study you know misophonia whether they should be coached in their career choices because if big companies go more and more in this direction of open space right unless people work a lot of time in home office i think for a misophonic person it is perhaps not the ideal career choice so right right right um yeah no we yeah yeah hopefully
Adeel [54:12]: i think the pendulum will swing back to from open offices and something a little bit more straight i know that a lot of newer designs around here especially are you know there's some open office there's some rooms there's some shared spaces So I think it's good to have optionality. I mean, that makes most sense, I think. But because, yeah, I mean, I could take sitting at my desk in an open office for a little while. But if it starts to get you triggered and I know I can move, I'm not going to be debilitated. so yeah well we are not not all the same this is also complicating things yeah yeah right um yes i mean we're getting up to close to an hour um anything yeah this is super great uh any i don't know any other kind of like thoughts that you have about miss phony or she experiences that you want to share
Klaus [55:09]: well there was something that I would like to ask you yeah once you mentioned I always thought it is a dangerous situation when a misophonic person, I don't know how we call them, is meeting others, is hanging out with others. Because perhaps they will just, you know, sometimes you can transfer a trigger from one person to another just by... Yeah, by always talking about it, always looking out for it. So I thought it is perhaps not a good idea to have friends with the same condition. But you said you have different experiences, you feel safe around them. So would you recommend that people form communities where they hang out with others? So would that be... With us about misophonia? Yeah.
Adeel [56:21]: Yeah, I totally do. And there are some Zoom calls that go on where people all over the world are calling in to talk about misophonia and their experiences. But I think in person, I think it is valuable because... When I've gone to the Misophonia Convention and I'm around a whole bunch of other Misophones, there's like a default layer of understanding that we have for each other. And we're kind of looking out for each other. But also, in most cases, not all the time, I'm less likely to get triggered by someone who I know understands Misophonia. you know what i mean yes i know and so i think getting together with uh other mystophones and when i do get together with uh other mystophones on a coffee shop or whatever they don't trigger me and so um and i because i and i also know if they did i could say something and they'd immediately understand but um but i think that's what i think there is something valuable to like meeting in person even you know meeting as group there's a group yeah um
Klaus [57:31]: yeah when you said that last time in one of the podcasts i i think i said i it changed my mind a little bit perhaps we should organize something like that in germany there's not yet much yeah um right we have a couple of uh facebook groups uh but i mean the ranting is is the biggest part yeah yeah And I mean, the rigidity also, well, sometimes in the ranting you see how rigid people are, how much they think things should be this way and they rant because it's not. It's not only the misophony, poor things. Right. But perhaps we should organize something like these groups. Yeah.
Adeel [58:25]: I think every city should have one. And yeah, maybe that's something I try to help organize. But yeah, I think that's great. I hope people listening and who are in Germany will maybe connect and get something going.
Klaus [58:41]: I think I'll use one of these Facebook groups to ask a question whether that exists in southern Germany. Would be interesting because I never met any. Right. except for the guy in the company who was very nice, by the way. So I would hang out with him.
Adeel [59:09]: absolutely um well that's great hopefully hopefully this will this episode can kind of kick kick off a movement of uh in person and summer's coming so you don't have to be inside you can be outside and uh we can enjoy each other's company that way um yeah klaus i mean thanks for thanks for coming on and sharing your story finally yeah it's great to finally connect after some uh rescheduling but yeah great to hear your story and I know it's gonna help a lot of people
Klaus [59:41]: been fantastic to be here. And I hope you continue with this series of podcasts, because I think it's really one of the very valuable elements of the whole misophony. Information not out there in the internet reaches the right people. And yeah, no, appreciate it. I'm glad I discovered it. And I'm glad to be contributing.
Adeel [60:09]: Thank you again, Klaus. So great to hear from other parts of the world and especially those who've had, from those who've had very successful careers living with misophonia. If you liked this episode, don't forget to leave a quick review or just hit the five stars wherever you listen to this podcast. You can hit me up by email at hellomissiphoniapodcast.com or go to the website, missiphoniapodcast.com.
Klaus [60:36]: It's even easier just to send a message on Instagram at missiphoniapodcast, follow there on Facebook, and on X or Twitter, it's Missiphonia Show. Support the show by visiting the Patreon at patreon.com slash missiphoniapodcast. The music, as always, is by Moby. And until next week, wishing you peace and quiet.
Adeel [61:27]: you