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Unknown Speaker [0:01]: Welcome to the Misophonia podcast. This is episode 203. My name is Adeel Ahmad, and I have Misophonia. This week I'm talking to Paula. a psychology student in France. Paula first noticed misophonia when she was 13 or 14 years old, as she felt intense emotions when hearing eating sounds. It took several years for her to discover that misophonia was a real condition, like for many of us. Paula's parents were supportive, but initially didn't understand what she was going through, and she coped by eating at home by herself and avoiding triggering situations. Paula's actually now going to be starting therapy, hopefully to help manage her misophonia, and she hopes to further understand her triggers to find long-term solutions. Just a quick note, due to some technical difficulties, we got cut off a little abruptly near the end. It was just around the time when we were ending anyway, so you get pretty much the full conversation. I hope to have Paula on again in the future to maybe talk about her new therapy. After the show, let me know what you think. You can reach out by email at hello at misophoniapodcast.com or hit me up on Instagram or Facebook at Misophonia Podcast. By the way, please do head over and leave a quick rating or review wherever you listen to the show. It helps drive us up in the algorithms. That's where a lot of listeners come in, and it's a great way to support other misophones. A little bit more of my usual announcements. Just want to, of course, thanks for the incredible ongoing support of our Patreon supporters. If you feel like contributing, you can read all about the various levels at patreon.com slash misophony podcast. All right, now here's my conversation with Paula. Paula, welcome to the podcast. Great to have you here.
Unknown Speaker [1:50]: Hi, thank you. Thanks for having me.
Unknown Speaker [1:53]: Yeah. So do you want to tell us kind of, I guess where you're located and all that?
Unknown Speaker [1:57]: So I'm from France. Um, I'm currently a student. I just graduated. I finally got my bachelor's degree in psychology and I'm now entering my first year of my master's degree and I'm going to be working with the elderly. I'm going to try to specialize with, um, in like neural, neural degenerative disorders and basically Alzheimer's and yeah.
Unknown Speaker [2:23]: Oh, very cool. Okay. Yeah, that's a hot area. Yeah. Very important area. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, so do you want to, I guess, kind of, maybe let's start at the beginning, kind of, for you. I know, you know, you've been trying to get on the podcast for a couple of years, so I'm sure you've got stories to tell, but maybe let's start at the beginning. Like, when did you first start noticing things, and how did that go?
Unknown Speaker [2:49]: Yeah, so I would say my first memory of misophonia was probably when I was 13 or 14, I would say. I just remember... feeling very intense feelings and emotions mainly throughout my body when it would be time to eat and when I would hear my parents eating but at the time I didn't know misophonia was a thing and my parents also didn't know what I was experiencing so it was a very lonely I would say a couple of first years before I finally learned what misophonia was. And also my sister didn't really understand what I was really feeling because she mainly saw it as me just growing up and just being an adolescent but was is she older or younger yeah she's three years older than i am okay yeah and this is all in france right uh yeah yes that's probably you were probably around 10 years ago then
Paula [4:02]: Yeah, 10 years ago, actually.
Unknown Speaker [4:06]: Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, that's kind of when it started to get in the press, at least in the US. So I don't know how much it made it over to France. So I guess, well, then how were your parents reacting to your reactions to their sounds?
Unknown Speaker [4:22]: They've always been very... very listening to everything that i well not only misophonia or just anything in general they're always willing to to listen and understand what i'm going through but this time it was something that they had never heard of before so they were pretty lost because they saw that i was lost as well and they just tried to listen to me but then they also did some research on the site but they couldn't really find anything and they told me to go to the doctor my like the the gp and he didn't know anything about misophonia so it was just he was telling me how um sometimes artists they're more sensitive to certain things because I just enjoyed writing and listening to music and everything. So it was definitely not a good thing to do.
Unknown Speaker [5:29]: Gotcha. So, I mean, yeah, I mean, kind of an interesting thing to say, but also if you've heard the podcast, you know, that there's a lot of us identify as highly sensitive people, the HSP, um, abbreviation, um, But yeah, I mean, outside of the misappointment, did you kind of feel that, like, you know, able to read the room extremely, extremely, I don't know, extremely acutely? Like, did you have, did you feel, like, kind of extra sensitive, feel exhausted, just kind of generally at the end of the day by overstimulation, things like that?
Unknown Speaker [6:04]: yeah definitely feeling overstimulated um mainly at school because i'm not sure how it works for other countries but in france um when you are still in high school or in middle school you get to eat with every other like every other student kind of like a cafeteria basically very loud And there are just so many noise around, so many things going on. And I just remember coming back home after spending the day at school and after spending lunch period with so many noises around me. I felt very overstimulated.
Unknown Speaker [6:48]: Yeah, was there around 13, I mean, or before that, was there anything, I don't know, unusual about, you know, the events in your life? Or it sounds like your family is very supportive. I'm just kind of wondering if there's anything going on around that time. I don't know. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker [7:03]: Honestly, I've asked that question so many times, what triggered my misophonia or anything, but I can't pinpoint a specific time, really, no.
Unknown Speaker [7:17]: And was it kind of like, um, yeah, obviously eating sounds on the table, very common. Um, was it kind of like almost overnight? Some people it's like overnight, but for other people it's, they don't, can't quite pinpoint it.
Unknown Speaker [7:28]: Honestly, I, um, so I've started, um, having misophonia about 10 years ago. So yeah. kind of, well, the memories from that time, I don't really remember some of them. So I wouldn't really be able to say whether it happened overnight, but from what I can record, I would say it's really what happened because I don't have... any memories of it being progressive i just remember the first time it happened it was so brutal really yeah and then other than the gp where did you end up trying to i don't know see any therapist or anything i guess well i guess some point you had to realize they had a name yes how did that how did that happen it's actually a very funny story so i i was on snapchat and you know how on snapchat they were though
Unknown Speaker [8:23]: I don't know, but yeah, please, that's why you need to explain to me.
Unknown Speaker [8:27]: Well, when you go on Snapchat, you have those stories. You can have the stories from your friends, but also just from other medias, such as Fox, for example. And it was something like Vice, probably coming from, yeah, something like that. And it said something like, do you also get annoyed by mouth noises? And I was like, what is this? And I just kept on reading the whole description. And then they told that this thing was called misophonia. And I was like, wow, might be what I have. And it felt very relieving. And yeah, that's a very funny story.
Unknown Speaker [9:13]: Yeah. And that's the first time I'd heard of somebody, yeah, learning about it over Snapchat. So that must have been, yeah, I mean, when was it? Like, how long after you had misophonia? Do you remember, roughly?
Unknown Speaker [9:25]: I think it was probably two years later, two and a half, probably, yeah.
Unknown Speaker [9:31]: and um and then at school did you did you um did you try to get some accommodations or talk to anybody teachers or friends even no no honestly because at the time when i was
Unknown Speaker [9:46]: still not in university. My misophonia was mainly triggered by mouth sounds. So what I would just do is eat at home with my parents or without them and just watching the TV, knowing that I could really control the environment. And so at the time, yeah, things like clock ticking, snoring, it wasn't those sounds weren't really annoying me that much while they they do now but they did not in the past so no i i didn't really talk about it to to anyone really to anyone yeah so then it progressively got worse it sounds like more triggers and visual triggers too not visual triggers really only sounds for me and yeah it in this in the last two or three years i would say it's expanded to more sounds and it's just now in general any sound that is going to be repetitive and that is going to be yeah in in the long run and also there is something that has also changed in my misophonia it's you know how um when you experience um something for a certain amount of times um you kind of get you you kind of start to um remember the situation you were in and then you associate this situation with the bad reaction you had like conditioning right yeah yeah now every time i'm just at my parents kitchen table i just start to feel anxiety
Unknown Speaker [11:34]: Even though no one's sitting there at all. Right, yeah.
Unknown Speaker [11:38]: It's not even only the sounds, it's the whole situation around it.
Unknown Speaker [11:44]: What do you mean by whole situation? Just the dinner time getting ready for or?
Unknown Speaker [11:49]: Just, you know, when it comes to mouth noises, just being in a kitchen or being preparing to go out to eat with people and wondering, is it going to be a quiet environment? Am I going to be able to maybe go somewhere for a little bit to calm myself if the situation gets a bit too overwhelming? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker [12:13]: yeah yeah and so was dinner time like really quiet growing up like a lot of emphasis on manners and all that all that jazz not manners yeah me and me and my sister we we we talked a lot at the kitchen table for sure
Unknown Speaker [12:30]: But we definitely didn't have music in the background or TV. It would only be me, my sister and my parents. So there would be times when, you know, sometimes you just eat and you don't talk. You're just tired at the end of the day. It was mainly during those times that I could just hear everything.
Unknown Speaker [12:54]: Right, right, right. Great. Okay, so, yeah, so you didn't tell anybody for a while. I found out through on Snapchat that you had this condition. Yeah, I guess then what happened next? I guess you're approaching college and you're starting to, I don't know, make decisions about college. Well, first of all, maybe we could back up and just talk about what were your kind of coping methods at school and outside, hanging out with friends?
Unknown Speaker [13:22]: Um, the thing is, I don't have that many coping mechanisms aside from just having earplugs with me all the time in my bag, because you never know when you might have to lose them. And just, you know... Always kind of planning ahead, depending on the situation I'm going to be in, planning ahead. Is there a plan B? Is there somewhere I can go, something I can do to make the situation a bit better? Just preparing in advance.
Unknown Speaker [13:58]: Yeah. And do you, yeah, no, that's good. Yeah, obviously to kind of be prepared. I'm curious, the reaction that you feel, it's interesting to talk to somebody who doesn't, because many people have come on and you can kind of point to some fear situation growing up. And so there's a lot of that feeling that has kind of like kept on going. I'm curious for you as someone who doesn't recollect anything, you know. out of the ordinary, what do you feel? Do you feel fear? Do you feel anger? Do you feel disgust? It could be a mixture. I'm just curious if you've thought about it and if you've been able to articulate what you feel.
Unknown Speaker [14:41]: Yeah, I would say it's mainly anger and just this rage that I have that's growing inside of me. I remember for the first kind of years I would be experiencing this before I knew it was actually called misophonia. I remember wanting to put my fork in my hand to just make it stop and just, you know, make my parents react. to the gravity of the situation, kind of, because even though they were very understanding, they didn't know either what I was experiencing. So I just remember having those kind of needs to just put my fork in my hand and just, yeah, make this a big scene so that I could just be seen.
Unknown Speaker [15:38]: Right. Interesting. Because it doesn't seem like in your environment you had, I mean, your parents were pretty open, probably didn't have as much of a problem to feel validated or seen, right? Some people do. Some people have a big problem with that growing up. It doesn't seem like you did. So, yeah, it's just interesting that this came up and you just kind of felt that need. So, yeah, then I guess, I guess approaching college, did you, you know, you went to psychology, was that somewhat affected by, obviously you're not going to Misophonia now, but I'm just kind of curious if you're interested in the psyche was kind of in any way influenced by Misophonia?
Unknown Speaker [16:18]: I remember when I was in high school, I wanted to go in psychology specifically to... do a thesis on misophonia, go into research in misophonia. But then I just realized the neurological route and path is too hard for me to go into. So I'm just not going to be able to go through that many years of studying, but definitely affected my choice in the career that I'm taking. And yeah, I would say roughly the two last years of high school before going to university were pretty... good in terms of misophonia. I don't really remember being triggered as often as I did in the past, but then I started being very anxious when I started university with the workload and the stress of having to study all the time and it really affected my my misophonia because i felt very tired very often and it also um it had an impact on the the amount of attention that I had and also just you know when when you're tired all the time you're very you get irritable very easily and it just started again and that's yeah
Unknown Speaker [18:05]: Yeah, it's a common thing as you probably, yeah, stress and all the diet and sleep exacerbate dyspnea. So it's important to try to work on those baseline things. I guess later in high school, you probably, I don't know, maybe you felt like you were, because a lot of us, we kind of like when we have more control over the situation, when we get older sometimes. if we have more control over well i guess you were still living at home so yes but you're probably more independent and you can kind of control your environment a bit better um but yeah then probably that um it sounds like the stress of college kind of got to it were you then at that point because now you know what misophony is you're like educated you're in psychology were you able to get any kind of accommodations like as you're doing exams or projects things like that
Unknown Speaker [18:50]: um interestingly enough it's never there has never been a situation at school before last year where i felt like i needed certain accommodations um but then last year i started being very um triggered by the clicks of the keyboard, which was not something that I was triggered in the past. And now I'm starting school next week, university next week again. So I'll see how that goes. But no, I've never had really felt the need for special accommodation.
Unknown Speaker [19:35]: And what about, you know, now friends at your college? Like, socially, like, how does misophonia, I don't know, play in? Do you tell people now?
Unknown Speaker [19:45]: Honestly, socially, I would say it's fine because it's... not i'm now mostly triggered by the situations more than the sounds themselves and um i would say i kind of understood what situations are good for me and what situations are not good for me for example a like let's say a calm dinner with a few friends might not be the most ideal thing for me to do, but maybe... a place where lots of people are gathered, where there are going to be lots of sounds at the same time, not just one sound that I'm going to be able to extract from the rest.
Unknown Speaker [20:37]: Yeah, some background noise. Yeah, that's a common coping strategy. Yeah, super quiet dinner. That doesn't sound appealing to me. Although it is to other people, I guess. and okay and and then have you um like comorbid conditions i'm kind of curious have if you had any you don't have to get into them but i'm just kind of curious kind of because a lot of us do yeah um honestly i so i don't want to sell dichros myself and i'm actually safe space it's okay
Unknown Speaker [21:16]: i'm gonna be starting therapy in two weeks so we'll see from there but yeah um i think my misophonia has developed ocd in me honestly to be honest because i now have so many things on which i get very obsessive and I don't think, yeah, this was not happening in the past. And it's definitely because of misophonia, I think.
Unknown Speaker [21:46]: Yeah. Yeah, hopefully that helps. One thing I would share is a lot of the accepted proper therapies for OECD are exposure therapy where... it's not the case for misophonia. So I would just kind of, I don't know that you probably only know that, but I would just be careful. It's like, if they start to try to get, go, go, go after your misophonia with exposure therapy. Um, cause that, that doesn't mix, but, um, but yeah, but I mean, I hope good luck with, um, you know, whatever happens with, with, with the therapy. Is there a specific kind of type of, uh, approach therapy that you, that you were looking for with a therapist? Do you know? Uh,
Unknown Speaker [22:29]: Well, when I'm going to be meeting with her in two weeks, I'll just get to really talk about what misophonia is, even though I think she knows already. Because when I talked to her on the phone, it felt like she knew what it was. But we'll still get into it during the first sessions, I would say. But I would say something maybe that's... a bit more in the long term maybe to kind of try to understand what triggered it if i can remember what triggered it and yeah just maybe i i think something in the long a therapy in the long run would work better for me than something in the short term yeah
Unknown Speaker [23:18]: Yeah, I mean, I've said on the podcast many times, I think it is more of a deeper, fundamentally more of a deeper long-term thing. There are short-term tools that can help, but I would love to be in the loop. I'd be very curious if you find anything there because you can't, because I've heard of so many stories where people can pinpoint to some probable things. You, you can't. but that's not to say you know that's not to say it either way that there is something there but i'd just be i don't know if you find any epiphanies please uh shoot me a note uh be curious i won't share with anybody else but i'm just kind of curious for my own curiosity um just trying to dig into what what this is all about um but i mean at least for now yeah i wish you the best but whatever uh approach that you uh
Unknown Speaker [24:04]: fine what about um like your parents now are they still very supportive and kind of like when you go to meet you know family events are they pretty accommodating yeah no they're they're very understanding and oh yeah um they they were the ones who told me i should go to therapy actually they were the ones telling me we'll we'll give you the support you need you should get yourself um you should you should help the situation. And now when it comes to eating with them, they are definitely okay if I eat before them, if I eat after them, they don't make a big deal out of it. And they know it's something that I have. And if I just have to leave the kitchen table at some point, they just know that it's not out of disrespect. And yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker [25:05]: What about, I guess, in France in general, are you noticing, is there awareness of misophonia? Like, what's the deal over in France?
Unknown Speaker [25:13]: Honestly, I don't know.
Unknown Speaker [25:15]: I just... In French, we all talk a lot, you know, it's very open, the art and literature.
Unknown Speaker [25:22]: When it comes to literature, I've only read articles that were in English, and... because I just know that the research is bigger when it comes to English literature. So I haven't even searched anything in French so far. But when I talk to my close friends about it, They always tell me that before I told them about it, they didn't know what misophonia was. And sometimes a few friends, they tell me, oh, I get annoyed by certain sounds as well. Like it's annoying as well, but it's a bit more than that. But no, honestly, when it comes to friends in general, I... I wouldn't say it's that mainstream or talked about.
Unknown Speaker [26:19]: Right. Yeah. I'm just kind of curious in France, because I think you might be one of the first people I've talked to who are actually French. I've talked to a lot of people in the UK. It seems like it's got more awareness. And like you said, there is actually a lot of research coming in, not just in English, but specifically from England. Yeah, so that's kind of interesting. I guess your research in Alzheimer's, do you want to talk a little bit about that? I don't know if it's something that you, I'm kind of curious, kind of, well, you know, what people in this point do for work. And do you want to talk a little bit about what you want to do for research for Alzheimer's and other degenerative, neurodegenerative diseases?
Unknown Speaker [27:01]: As for now, my master's degree, it's only going to be internships. So I'm not going to be making that much research. And, well, I know I have small pieces to write, but I know also that the subject is not mine to choose. It's the teacher's.
Paula [27:22]: Oh, okay.
Unknown Speaker [27:23]: Yeah, right, right, right. So far, I'm not sure what I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be writing about but no it's only mainly going to be internships and just in general what I'm passionate about is trying to make the retirement homes a better place for the elderly to just be in.
Unknown Speaker [27:48]: Gotcha, gotcha. Actually, have you, I mean, I don't know, you might, have you met other people with misophonia? I guess that's the one thing I'm trying to say. I have not. You have not?
Paula [28:02]: No, I have not.
Unknown Speaker [28:03]: No, okay, okay.
Paula [28:05]: No.
Unknown Speaker [28:06]: I wonder if, um, yeah, no, that's, that's, yeah, that's, that's interesting. I mean, uh, cause I mean, you're not a, yeah, I mean, you're not super young, you're not, but you've, you've met, you know, people in France. It's interesting that you, uh, that you've, that you haven't come across anyone else who has misophonia. Well, hopefully, I know. Yeah. Even if you're not doing research, hopefully you can, um, this, this episode, hopefully I'll obviously tag you with the French flag. Hopefully it'll kind of help raise some awareness, um, uh, about it. Um, Yeah, interesting. So, I mean, like, in terms of, are you kind of, like, waiting for this therapist to, like, to help you out? Or, like, now that you've read stuff, there's, you know, books and things. Are there therapies or, I don't know, approaches that you want to try, things that you want to do? I guess, what are your misplaced goals?
Unknown Speaker [29:01]: As for now, I'm just... I'm just putting all my hopes in this therapy which I know it's not the best thing to do because it's not gonna save me I need to do it also on my own but I'll just I'll see as for now how the therapy goes and if I just feel like this is not something that's gonna work I'll keep on reading things on my own and yeah maybe trying to meet people as well that have dysphonia yeah
Unknown Speaker [29:31]: Well, yeah, when I post this episode, then, yeah, I'll try to, I don't know, I'll try to make an appeal to people in France to kind of get together and do a meetup. Yeah, and I'll say, like, yeah, don't pin your hopes on any one thing, but, I mean, I like the fact that, you know, just if you, you know, I think it's always healthy to exercise trying to figure out where some part of you came from. That's always a healthy exercise, I feel like, so I mean, if you don't carry a symphony, but just thinking about that and trying to dig into your past is not a bad thing. So if that's a benefit of a symphony, I think we should all kind of like grab that. So, um, cool. Well, I mean, um, yeah, I mean, I need anything else that you want to, you want to share any like funny, uh, experiences of glaring at people or, uh, or, or bad, uh, Oh,
Unknown Speaker [30:32]: Well, bad reactions I have. I have a lot. What's your kind of go-to?
Unknown Speaker [30:37]: Is it the glare or is it like a huffing and puffing on the Paris Metro? Or how do you usually react to people?
Unknown Speaker [30:47]: Well, I just... Anytime I'm on public transport, I just put my music very loud and I just, yeah. But no, I definitely, I think one thing to end this podcast on one note is just if misophonia has given me one thing, it's that it's given me the opportunity to enjoy every sound that I'm able to hear. And, oh, can you hear me? It says reconnecting again.
Paula [31:27]: Oh. Ah.
Unknown Speaker [31:34]: Yeah, I saw that a little bit. Yeah, it just kind of keeps going back and forth. Yeah. I think it's a software effort starting to give people problems. Is this the first time it's happening? Well, it sounds like it might be okay now. Yeah. Yeah, do you want to maybe just, if I think of a... Oh, no, it's still saying reconnect. Okay. Never mind. One thing we could do is we could always just kind of like have another short conversation before this goes live, which won't be for another few weeks anyways. And, you know, no pressure to get everything out right here. Yeah, no, yeah.
Unknown Speaker [32:26]: You can definitely... I always edit all this stuff later.
Unknown Speaker [32:30]: All right. Well, that's about where we got cut off. Thanks again, Paula, for the great conversation. And I wish you the best with your new therapy. If you liked this episode, don't forget to leave a quick review or just hit the five stars wherever you're listening to this podcast. You can hit me up by email at hellomissiphoniapodcast.com or go to the website, missiphoniapodcast.com. It's even easier to send a message on Instagram at missiphoniapodcast.com. or Facebook, Mr. Pony Podcast, and on X, or Twitter, it's Mr. Pony Show. Support the show by visiting Patreon, at patreon.com slash mrponypodcast. Theme music, as always, is by Moby. And until next week, wishing you peace and quiet.
Unknown Speaker [33:46]: you