#219 - Andy

Adeel [0:01]: Cool, well yeah, I'll say Andy, welcome to the podcast. Great to have you here.

Andy [0:06]: Thank you, glad to be here.

Adeel [0:08]: Cool, so yeah, do you want to tell us a little bit about kind of roughly where you are, what you do?

Andy [0:13]: Yes, so I live in Lexington, Kentucky. I am a transplant from like Eastern Pennsylvania. So I've been here for about, since November and I did that for work. And what I do for work, they gave me a fancy, some fancy title, but basically I'm a production supervisor in a manufacturing facility. currently, I am responsible for the day-to-day operations of about 58 people. yeah, it's quite a bit. you know, when we talk about mesophonia, I I hear so many sounds all day, every day in an environment like that. So it certainly does not help my case at times.

Adeel [1:00]: Yeah, are you, I mean, do you have an office at times that you can retreat to or are you on, is it like a factory floor kind of thing or just production?

Andy [1:11]: No, that's a good question. I do have, I mean, because I have to have, you know, difficult conversations with people and, you know, get HR involved and stuff like that. do have. Yeah, but I do have my own office in order to conduct those things. So fortunately, I do have that little escape. Yeah.

Adeel [1:20]: yeah, let's hear those. Yeah, gotcha. Yeah, okay. Yeah. The kind of change management kind of conversations I would imagine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. Well, so I mean, that brings about, I'm sure we'll get to just empathy. I mean, you must have some emotional awareness if you're tasked to do this kind of, I mean, you're-

Andy [1:36]: Yes, yes, yes. Performance improvement and all that good stuff. Yeah. course.

Adeel [2:00]: You must have to, in real time, go with the flow on the psychological, reading the room, basically, right? And that's something that we're obviously very adept at as misophones. So I'm gonna jump around, because you know I do on these conversations, but have you heard the term, like, highly sensitive person? Would you kind of consider yourself one of those?

Andy [2:22]: 100%. And, you know, I've always felt that way, but I've been listening to episodes from the podcast a lot and it does typically come up. And so, yes, it is definitely the case with me. Emotional intelligence is something that I really have to be able to rely on a lot in my career field, just because I deal with people every day. You know, some people would think I'm

Adeel [2:31]: Yeah. Hmm.

Andy [2:48]: I'm responsible for machinery and equipment and that we get product out. But when it comes down to it, I know nothing about those machines. have to put people or I feel that they could have the most lasting effect and be as productive as possible. And typically that means not putting them with certain people and understanding like how that works person to person is super important for my job. Yeah, I think emotional intelligence plays a key part in my role. I mean, you have to have that IQ as well, but to that point EQ might be just as, if not more important to my position.

Adeel [3:31]: Yeah, yeah. And we'll get more into the misophonia. I'm curious if, and this might not be a serious question, but has misophonia ever come up in one of those conversations like, hey, Charlie, you better shut that.

Andy [3:38]: Yeah. No, no it has not. And you know, we'll definitely talk more about that but as far as like my little quirks and what I got going on, I do my best to keep myself separated from that. You know, I'm there to discuss them. You know, I have my own way of motivating people that typically comes from personal experiences that I have. But when it comes down to those personal things, I keep those to myself.

Adeel [3:54]: Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. And yeah, so why don't we, yeah, maybe let's just rewind and go forward like early days for Andy. When did you start noticing this?

Andy [4:14]: during those conversations. Okay, yeah, so I've been thinking about this a lot actually. And I think it's pretty typical that it's about that puberty age for most of us. And I believe that that's about when it was for me, like 11 or 12. Because I think back and my earliest memories involved people in my family. And I came from a big family. I have five sisters. They're all younger than me and then my parents. And my earliest misophonia memories came from chewing chips, like potato chips. And I'm pretty sure that was about 11 or 12. I don't remember those feelings of anger and rage leading up to that based on something like that. Because I know I had to hear... and all the other stuff that drives me nuts before then. But I think it was about that 11, 12 year old age that I really started to notice that kind of stuff.

Adeel [5:38]: Yeah, and what was, was there anything going on at home that was unusual around that time? I don't know, must've been, it could've been stressful having so many young kids, so many kids in general. I'm just curious.

Andy [5:50]: Well, mean, nothing in particular like trauma wise or anything like that. I know the biggest thing for me was I was homeschooled up until 10th grade. So at that time, you know, I was in my house with my family and that was it. So if I had the chewing and stuff, I couldn't really escape it.

Adeel [5:57]: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Andy [6:18]: I could go outside, I could go to my room, but I'd always have to come right back to it. So I don't know if that really played much of a role, but I mean, when you bring it up like that, like what's going on at the time, you know, I was very tied to my family just because, you know, that was my friends, my schoolmates, you know, my classmates, like it was my sisters and my parents.

Adeel [6:42]: Yeah, okay, Yeah, but till 10th grade, okay, because yeah, I mean, that's like getting right into high school. Who, was your mom your teacher or, yeah, gotcha. Wow, okay. And she taught all the kids, all your sisters too. So it was like the, yeah.

Andy [6:48]: Yeah. Yes, my mom. Sort of because you know for you know, I always felt like at the short end of the stick being because I'm the oldest You know, so my youngest sister. She's 12 years younger than me So she was home schooled for kindergarten and then went to school. So, you know, so You know for her it kind of worked out for me I had to I had more of that than they didn't and if you couldn't tell I wasn't a big fan of it, you know, I I was not a fan

Adeel [7:04]: Yeah. Okay. Okay, so what were some of things that you didn't like about it? I'm just curious. Yeah.

Andy [7:30]: Well, I always felt different. know, when I see people, they'd be like, you know, because I got into sports when I was in seventh grade. So my parents let me do sports. But then I'd go to practice and, I'm like the I'm the homeschooled kid, you know, that didn't feel really good. So, you know, it's always I just wanted to be normal. So for me, it was like, let me get to public school. Let me just be a normal kid, not be happy.

Adeel [7:38]: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Gotcha. And so after 10th grade, they let you do that. Gotcha. You kept raising your hand in 10th grade and said, Mom, can I go to a public school?

Andy [8:03]: Yep, You know, then I just suffered through regular high school like a normal kid, you know? Yeah, pretty much. Andy, what's the question? Can I go to public school? No, not again, no.

Adeel [8:16]: Okay, cool. Yeah, so most of friends outside of home were through sports, I guess. I'm curious, did they ever, did you ever talk to anybody about Misophonia? I guess, even at home.

Andy [8:28]: Yeah. So yeah, like back then, no. The biggest things that would get me back then are chewing and I think coughing started to really bother me and sneeze. So any sort of chewing, whether it be crunchy stuff or slurping or smacking of lips, like all those things that are pretty typical with us. But then that

Adeel [8:37]: Yeah. Yeah.

Andy [9:04]: morphed a lot into like coughing and sneezing and just other general mouth sounds. But at the time, the only people I would talk to it about were those closest to me and my family. And it would come out in the form of rage and anger. So, you know, my mom, for example, one of the sweetest, like women that I've ever met in my life, you know, mean, slightly biased there, but you know. She's a wonderful human being. And I would just get so angry at her, you know, as a 12, 13, 14 year old and all she's doing is eating food. And so I just be like, stop that. Like, I can't take that. And she, and you know, the general response to that between her and my sisters would be, um, I can't help it. Like I can't help it. I'm just eating. And it's like, well, yeah, but I'm so angry. Like stop it. You know, like over the years it.

Adeel [9:55]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Andy [10:03]: I started to really understand that. They really can't help that. They're not doing anything wrong or anything different than somebody else. It's just that when I'm around, they know I want to get upset. So yeah, what I did is I didn't tell anybody else about it. If I was outside with neighbor kids or if I was in school, I just dealt with it. I didn't think it was a thing. And I did it, like I was ashamed of it. I just thought it was something that I had to deal with. I thought it was just who I was or that it was fairly normal. just, it was just maybe a little more severe with me. But yeah, I never told anybody about it. I didn't know about it. I didn't know it was a thing until I think I was like 25. So I'm 36 now, so about 11 years. And that actually came from

Adeel [10:39]: Mm-hmm. When did you find out it was a thing? Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Andy [11:04]: one of my sisters who I actually just talked to today and we just started to, I'm not sure how the topic came up, it, and probably because I was planning on speaking to you tonight, but. So I was like, has it gotten worse for you? And she was like, yeah, she's like, it has. And you know, she's 34. She's, yes, yes.

Adeel [11:19]: You're like, I'm talking to this cool guy. He does this puck. Wait, she has it too? okay, okay.

Andy [11:34]: Yes. Now, in my experience, I don't know what it's like to be in her brain, but it always felt like for her, it wasn't nearly as bad as what I have to deal with. And maybe that's what we all think. don't know. It always just felt more severe with me. And from what I talked to her about, hers is more specialized or focused on like

Adeel [11:50]: you

Andy [12:02]: Just chewing, like chewing basically is about it. Whereas, and we'll talk more about this, I have, it's like I've developed many more layers over the years where it's not just the chewing. But she told me, you know, getting back to when I first heard about this, and I'm just guessing at 25, it could be a couple years before or after, I'm not quite sure. But she was saying, hey, you know, like that thing that, You you always used to yell at us girls for back there. I was like, yeah, yeah, that thing. I remember that thing. And she's like, well, you know, it's got a name. I was like, what? So then she said it's Mesophonium. I was like, okay. So I looked it up and at the time, and this is where I'm not quite sure the timeline, maybe it was before, but there really wasn't a whole lot in there about it. You know, I own the internet that is I'd find a couple of episodes or a couple of articles here and there. And the thing that discouraged me a lot.

Adeel [12:57]: video.

Andy [13:02]: from really going any further into my research was finding out that it's not recognized as an actual disorder by the DSM-5. so that's where I was like, wait, so this thing that I have to suffer through and manage and deal with on a daily basis, has it even been recognized? Meanwhile, how many other millions of disorders are out there that get all this attention and focus and... funding for research, you know. So, you know, over the years I just kind of like, I like, well, I mean, I know it's something so that's good at least. But I didn't really dig too far into it. And lately I've been, you know, doing a little digging and that's where I was like, well, there's got to be other people around here like me, like, and that's where I found your podcast. Yeah, it's great. It's perfect. So thank you for that, man. It's like.

Adeel [13:54]: Hey Yeah, was the whole point of it.

Andy [14:02]: It does feel at times like we're out on an island here. So it's nice to know that there's others like us and that we don't have to kind of suffer on this, suffer through this alone, you Another thing, there's a show and it's called Sex Education. And I think it's on Netflix. I'm not quite sure. I don't know if I can even say those actual names here, but that show, I think it's the third season. the one girl in it proclaims to be a misophone. did you remember that? Yeah.

Adeel [14:34]: Yeah, I think I heard about this. I think I heard, I don't watch a lot of, I don't have the attention span, I'll fall asleep. But I did hear about that one. I think I did, I did check out that episode. Yeah, so that was, yeah.

Andy [14:42]: Right, right, right. Blew my mind cuz like the dudes like eating chips or something and she's like geeking out and they're like, you can't do that on her She has mesophonia

Adeel [14:53]: Yes. Right. Yeah, I remember there was an effort by some people to try to contact the producer. I don't think it went anywhere after seeing that. yeah, so it did definitely make an impact. People noticed, for sure.

Andy [15:08]: Okay. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I was very happy for that. But yeah, I've known about it for probably about a decade or so, but until recently, I haven't really reached out to any sort of community or anything, but I'm really glad that it is in existence, your podcast.

Adeel [15:15]: cool. Did your, I guess, other than your sister, since she told you it had a name, did you bump it to anybody else? Yeah. No, no, no, okay, yeah.

Andy [15:40]: that has it? No. No. No, I have not. Like that is, she's literally the only person I know in person that has it.

Adeel [15:50]: How do you, so I guess instead or just generally, like how do you, I guess your coping methods at work and in the crazy world.

Andy [15:57]: my, okay, yeah, so, it's ridiculous. Yeah, and that makes it very difficult there too. But at home, know, it's, you know, being in a relationship or being at home with family, it's the only coping mechanisms I really have are running away, the flight. Now at times, because, you know, I find that those that are closest to me,

Adeel [16:19]: Yep.

Andy [16:26]: are the ones that I am the most mean to about this, which makes me feel really horrible. So then that's where I can do like the fight part, is like, stop that or knock it off or go away. So, but I do my best, especially now, like as I'm older and stuff to not to do that. The other thing I've developed over the years is what a good friend of mine called defensive chewing.

Adeel [16:29]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, mimicking maybe, right? Yeah.

Andy [16:56]: So, yeah, so if say somebody's eating a bag of chips, well, then I'm gonna eat a bag of chips. yes, exactly. I will, too louder than you, so I don't have to hear it. Another thing, you know, I've had friends, yeah, I still have friends that have no idea about this. So a good friend of mine, we get together and have like movie night or watch a show or something.

Adeel [17:04]: Yeah, yeah, I mean we need it louder. Yeah, yeah.

Andy [17:26]: He was a real big fan of chips. So he'd find all these random flavored chips and we'd try them out. And so we'd be sitting there and, okay, I try them out and that's cool now. And he would say, well, he would just keep eating chips. And so I was like, the novelty of these odd tasting chips is over for me now. So I kinda wanna get back to the show and focus on that, but now I can't. So what I do is I kind of just position myself on the couch in a way that my finger happened to be in my ear. And my other arm would be over my other ear, just to dull it out a little bit. But I don't like that and I hate it because the same thing goes for earplugs or noise canceling. I feel very uncomfortable with it.

Adeel [18:20]: Yeah.

Andy [18:23]: And I thought about that for a very long time as to why that's not something I'd like to use as like a coping mechanism and a couple years ago, I worked with this guy who has autism and in the career field in which I am, it's difficult. I mean, I'm sure to have that is difficult anywhere, but Particularly so when we talk about the emotional intelligence that's needed in something like this and being able to understand people and read people and convey a certain level of understanding. So this person didn't tell me about this for a very long time until it was affecting their job performance. I was having one of those difficult conversations saying, you know, you need to do better in this area and that area and yada yada. And finally he breaks down and quite literally breaks down and confesses that he has this disorder. And I was like, okay, man, that's fine. That's not a big deal. We can work through this together now that I know, yada yada. And then the biggest thing I took away from that was the most difficult thing for him was not dealing with the conditional on daily basis, making it work in his life, but was

Adeel [19:26]: Hmm. Yeah.

Andy [19:50]: telling me that that was a thing that he had, like admitting that that was a problem. I feel the same way at times with misophonia, where if I walk around with earplugs all day and people ask me why I have earplugs in, I can either lie or tell them the truth. Either way, I'm gonna feel uncomfortable about it. So I do my best. not to do that. And I have to be able to hear. have to be able to understand what people are saying like when we talk about work. Fortunately, it's a loud environment. So I do have earplugs that I use most of the time. But I mean, that's when I'm out on the floor. Like when I'm in my office, in a conference room, like I need to be able to hear. So even having noise cancel, or the ones that kind of drown certain sounds out, not others, I mean, I would just still feel a bit odd there. And I wouldn't. And the last thing I want to do is have to have a conversation about it, which is odd, but my reality.

Adeel [20:56]: Yeah, no, all feel it. I we don't want the attention to be on us. And that's, don't know if that's somehow related to the highly sensitive person reading the room. We don't want people reading us as much on things that we're uncomfortable about.

Andy [21:08]: Right, for sure. Yeah, I just want to be there and do my job. I don't want to be the novelty. Like, hey, look at this guy, he's kind of weird. I just want to be able to be there and do my job.

Adeel [21:17]: Yeah. Beer. No, I mean, people probably recognize that from your early days of not wanting to stand out. And you were probably quite vigilant. Now I'm like totally speculating, but you would have had to have been. It's like, I don't know, a lot of situations like being an immigrant or whatever, it's like you have to be super vigilant.

Andy [21:30]: Right? Exactly, exactly. No, please do. Please do.

Adeel [21:51]: at an early age to like, are people thinking of me? You know, if you're, maybe part of it's just, you know, self-conscious people are like that too, but, you know, maybe for us, we're predisposed to kind of have this thing switch on for us and, for others, maybe not. And something else switches on, but, but you can, I don't know, you can kind of, you can kind of draw a dot, I'll align to that dot potentially of just

Andy [21:54]: Yeah. Yeah? Yeah.

Adeel [22:20]: just something that makes us extra vigilant. Yeah, really, really interesting. I guess, I mean, speaking of like relationships, you said there is a bit of flight and there is a bit of fight. I do you have, I guess, kids of your own as well? Like what's the family situation like? Yeah.

Andy [22:23]: for sure. Well, I don't have any kids. I'm in a relationship. It's currently long distance. one thing, it's not, it's really not. Yes. But you know, that's obviously, I mean, that's not the intention forever, right? The thing is, is like in past relationships, like I've, what I've done is I've let those feelings of anger

Adeel [22:47]: That's not bad for the misophonia unless the phone connection is... Right, right, right. Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Andy [23:11]: build up to the point where I explode and then that's how they find out about it. And so what I've done differently in my current relationship is I've told her about it pretty early on. So, you know.

Adeel [23:14]: Mm-hmm. You had a t-shirt on your first date.

Andy [23:33]: Yeah, pretty much, right? Hey, by the way, oh, what's that word mean? Oh, well, gone's like yes. No, but I, you know, it was, you know, a couple months into relationship, but it was like, hey, by the way, I have this thing. so any other normal person, you tell them that, like, they don't fully understand it. Like, no one really fully understands that, I don't think, until unless you really have it.

Adeel [23:35]: you

Andy [24:01]: Or you deal with somebody on a daily basis and have the empathy to be able to understand. So with her, I'm trying to establish a foundation around it to get some building blocks for it to help the relationship down the road. Because I know there's a time when it's not a long distance relationship anymore. And in my past, I found that the ones that I'm hardest on are those that I'm closest to, whether it be family or those I'm in relationships with. So with her, I'm trying something different where I'm just like, I'm trying to bring her awareness towards it, just so she at least has an idea of what it is before it becomes something that I get angry about. And maybe then she can hopefully understand that I'm not angry at her necessarily. Just something that happens in my brain.

Adeel [25:02]: Okay, yeah. Well, I hope things, I don't know, maybe this is a, yeah, we'll see how this turns out, especially interesting that it's long distance for a while and she can prepare for it, basically. And you can too, it's not like you're all of a sudden, yeah, just together all the time. There is some thinking period, yeah.

Andy [25:19]: Yeah, for sure. Exactly. Yeah, and I've done that before. I've done that before. And it was like, oh God. And you know, at first it's okay. You know, what I found is there are times when I'm okay. Not like I'm not great, but I'm okay with certain sounds that bother me and drive me nuts until I'm in, maybe my anxiety is a little high. Maybe I'm in a high stress situation. That's whenever like,

Adeel [25:46]: Mm-hmm.

Andy [25:57]: If I'm already stressed out and then somebody starts eating a bag of chips or chewing on some ice, then it's just like game over. Like I just, my brain just shuts down. And so that's where it's like, at the very least I could ease my way into that with her to where it's like, I'm not, I'm not building something up into, like, I'm not building a situation up, with high stress and chewing and her there. like that perfect storm where I just implode. Hopefully I can just kind of better manage it. We'll see.

Adeel [26:35]: Hey, you know, with highly sensitive people like us who have high EQ, mean, we're, I mean, it's, maybe we use that talent to kind of recognize these situations. I try to do that now too, is just try to figure out where's my nervous system at? Like, where am I, where am I, am I like wide open to, you know, implosion or, and maybe I should like make, you know, set a,

Andy [27:00]: Yeah.

Adeel [27:05]: emotional boundary right now so that I try to not do that if I can't So yeah, maybe we just use our HSP to kind of help ourselves and help anyone else who's potentially collateral damage.

Andy [27:22]: For sure, use it as a tool rather than something that's holding us back.

Adeel [27:24]: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's good. mean, recognizing stress and all that stuff, yeah, that's something I just, I mean, these are the things we should, you know, we should try to tell as many people as possible. Because if I knew about this earlier, like I'd be a lot more cognizant, you know. But you know, just is, Misfunny is so early in its kind of awareness that The only thing people really hear about is, yeah, hey, another person who's anointed sounds, but I think there are like some really practical skills like this that can help. Some self-awareness that can benefit us in many other aspects.

Andy [28:07]: Definitely.

Adeel [28:08]: So very, yeah.

Andy [28:10]: So another coping mechanism that I haven't heard from anybody else yet, and it's new in the sense that I think probably within the last 10 years, maybe less, that I do is... And it's kind of layered, but it's almost like I've developed a oh my God, I can't think of the word, tick, a physical tick. So for example, was in a group today with a few people, okay? And I'm just sitting there minding my own business and somebody sneezes, okay? My first reaction is my head snaps directly to the source. like instant, like instant. And it's of course accompanied with like a very angry face. So even though this person is entirely across the room from me and has no awareness that I even exist at the moment, like I think in my head, me doing that and Displaying my displeasure whether I'm the only one to realize it or not. I think helps me kind of cope with it another thing that I do is like more of like a like a like a twinge almost like a like almost like if you're cold and like you have a shiver so I'll do like a like a shiver with my neck and my head and

Adeel [29:52]: Mm-hmm.

Andy [29:59]: And it's more jerky than say a typical shiver. and it's got the angry face accompanied with it as well. but that helps me or that I do a lot. I like work and in public settings, like in a restaurant or something like that, where it's like, it is horrible as it is. like, I, as far as I know, no one's seen it yet, but no one said they have seen it yet. I'm sure they have to have seen it. but.

Adeel [30:27]: you

Andy [30:29]: But that's something that just seems very odd to me, but kind of makes sense too because it's like the biggest thing that I find whenever I get, whenever that happens, that rage builds up. It's like I can never fully express to somebody how angry I am at them at that particular moment for even existing. I can't say that across the room. I can't tell them to go, you know what, off and shut up and stop doing that. But what I can do is make this weird grimacing face and make this weird twitchy movement. for some reason in my mind, that lets them know that I disprove of what they're doing. And it gets me through that split second.

Adeel [31:26]: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that kind of is an intersection of a bunch of stuff, like just having a sense of control or feeling you have a sense of control. Definitely helps seems to be an important factor or yeah, in some ways an important factor. No, that's really interesting. Yeah, and these are things that you have various people bring up and then going back to your thing about the...

Andy [31:33]: Yes.

Adeel [31:56]: what was it called, the defensive chewing, the people call it mimicking. mean, there's even, to the point where there's research about mimicry as well. And I think also just the, yeah, the idea of this kind of control also comes up in, it's starting to come up in research, it's very early stages. So, no, that's interesting that that kind of has an effect.

Andy [31:58]: Yeah.

Adeel [32:24]: One thing I try to suggest to people that I've thought of going back to kind of what we were just talking about, you're at an early age, you didn't want to feel left out and potentially reading the room a lot, almost acknowledging and thanking that part of you as something that exists, that kind of made you that maybe have kind of turned into misophonia, know, a side effect that you don't need, but at least had an initial good intention. And coupled with the fact that you're reminding yourself that, hey, I'm not in danger, you know, some ancient tiger is not going to kill me. That combination kind of like tends to put me at ease, you know, even if I'm not in a stressful situation, it does kind of like...

Andy [33:14]: Yeah. Yeah, I like that.

Adeel [33:23]: I don't know what it does. It sends almost like a, actually a shiver through my, I kind of visualize my nervous system. I think that, I don't know, that's something that kind of, it's a trick that kind of helps me as well.

Andy [33:33]: I like that. Instead of it just being like, I'm stuck with this, it's like, well, this is what got me to where I am. It got me through the other stuff, you know?

Adeel [33:36]: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I can look at that. I can look at myself with some empathy as if like, know, my kind of earlier version of myself was trying to protect me. that kind of, I don't know, that seems to kind of like help on various levels. So.

Andy [34:01]: Definitely. One other thing, I mean, going back to the early years and, you know, just doing reading online and stuff about mesophonia, I don't know how valid this is, but it says somewhere in there that like could be associated with childhood head trauma. And I remember distinctly in fifth grade playing football in a parking lot.

Adeel [34:20]: Mm.

Andy [34:30]: and getting bowled over by some big guy and definitely getting concussed. And then in like about seventh grade, I was riding a bicycle in the dark and tried to ramp something like any intelligent 13 year old would do. And I ended up going over the handlebars and definitely concussing myself. like sometimes I wonder, and that's just two that I remember.

Adeel [34:33]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hmm.

Andy [35:00]: My brain tells me there's a couple more squeezed in there somewhere, but I know that, because I was pretty rambunctious and adventurous, so I tried to do all this fun stuff and usually would fall right on my head. So I wonder sometimes how much that plays into it, if at all.

Adeel [35:10]: Mm-hmm. Yeah, mean, I don't know what the research says or if there is much research on brain trauma. I'm sure a lot of kids, I'm sure it happens to a lot of kids and a of kids just recover. Yeah, mean, I'm sure a lot of, yeah, I think about that. Having kids myself, I'm like, you have no idea what could happen to your head on any single day.

Andy [35:37]: Yeah, I can't be alone with that, right? Yeah, seriously.

Adeel [35:51]: And so, you know, there has to be a mechanism for heads to recover, but obviously that doesn't necessarily happen for everybody. So, yeah, I don't know what to research. I'm sure at some point that'll be more research, that, yeah, I know it's good to think about the past and what these various events. Have you ever, I mean, have you ever had like an MRI or a?

Andy [35:56]: Yeah. Right.

Adeel [36:21]: scanner of some sort. Mm-hmm. Hey, quick tip, you know, if you, there's a lot of, you know, at the local university, there's a lot of, if there's like a neuroscience center, there's always, they're always doing like research where you can get a free scan basically.

Andy [36:23]: I don't believe so. Definitely not in my adulthood. I don't think so when I was a child or anything. Yeah. Good to know.

Adeel [36:46]: And they might not try to diagnose or anything, I think for a lot of them, actually recently participated in one for Misophonia, you can ask for your files and they'll give them to you. then, know, can, you know, there's ways you can get that processed and take a look at stuff. Yeah, yeah. I mean, those things usually cost like, know, thousands of dollars. But if you participate in research, you can get it for free.

Andy [37:04]: That's awesome because I got University of Kentucky right down the road here. Is it? Yeah. That'd be interesting, at the very least interesting to see, you know? Whether something comes from it or not, would be... It would still be cool.

Adeel [37:16]: Anyways, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right. Yeah. Cool. Well, yeah, so I guess maybe going back to your, you know, the people, you know, your family growing up who you said, you know, you're angry with, like, what's your relationship with them like now? Like, would you talk about misophonia? What do they think?

Andy [37:45]: like I, with my entire direct family, like I have fantastic relationships. Now, they all know, they all know what I have. The exception might be my dad actually. And I don't know why, but I always felt so, and I've heard on other episodes where maybe their dad was like the start of their misophonia. And my dad,

Adeel [37:51]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Andy [38:14]: was, he might've been, he might've been, I kind of think of it, he might've been. But I was always too afraid to say anything about it to him. You know, I had no problem telling my sisters or even my mom, like, I don't like when you do that. But for my dad, I don't know, I just, I always felt uncomfortable telling him about it. But the one time, I might've been in my early 20s.

Adeel [38:22]: Mm-hmm.

Andy [38:45]: And my dad and I went golfing together. I love golfing and my dad's the one that got me into golfing and him and I have a great relationship. But he also happened to have bronchitis at the same time. my God. So I played 18 holes with him and I almost had a mental breakdown because I didn't know how to keep going but I didn't want to stop. and I didn't want to tell him, like, hey, this is a problem. And eventually I had to say, like, I can't, like the sound, I just can't take it. Like it's driving me insane. And then it just gets to the, I can't help it. I got bronchitis, like I'm sorry. And then I feel even worse about it, you know? But as far as like, and then since then, I guess, I don't know if I've directly came out and told him about it, but all the other ones.

Adeel [39:27]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andy [39:43]: including my mom. They definitely know about it, but have really, really good relationships with them all.

Adeel [39:50]: Gotcha, gotcha, okay, okay. did you, and then I guess you're, let's talk about guess school after public school. Did you go to college and stuff? Like what was your progression like after, and how was Misophonia in, know, in.

Andy [40:06]: I did. Well, yeah, that's a question. That kind of brings me back. I mean, I've since gotten my MBA because I've changed career fields, but I actually went to college for a weird little thing called forestry. And ironically, the reason I got into forestry was because I hated people and I thought...

Adeel [40:21]: Mm-hmm.

Andy [40:40]: Well, this job pays me to go on a hike every day and trees don't talk back and I get to work by myself. know? yeah. So, like, think about that like someone with misophonia where it's like, hey, I don't have to deal with people at all. And from that aspect, it was fantastic. But...

Adeel [40:49]: It sounds perfect to me for, yeah. It actually play in, by the way. I mean, obviously you like peace and quiet, were you ever thinking, hey, it's super quiet, I'm not gonna get triggered? Yeah, okay. Subliminally or subconsciously, yeah. Yeah.

Andy [41:13]: I don't think so. yeah, but like back then, know, like, I mean, talked about being homeschooled. I was not very comfortable around people, you know? So for me, it just made sense for that. You know, in my mind, I said, I don't want to be stuck behind an office either, behind a desk all day in an office, you know? But, you know, in hindsight, it's like, well, I mean, that was, that played perfectly into my misophonia because I didn't have to.

Adeel [41:39]: Yeah.

Andy [41:42]: I didn't have to deal with people at all. It was fantastic. But through college, wasn't that bad, I don't think. And I think a lot of that was because everything was so new in my brain. I could deal with it little better just because I wanted to make a good impression. I wanted to be around people.

Adeel [41:44]: Yeah.

Andy [42:13]: Since then I've learned I was an extrovert trapped in the body of an introvert for a very long time in my life. Once I came to that realization, things changed, I got in a different career field. I deal with close to 60 people on a daily basis now. Can't be an introvert and do that for a very long time. But back in school, in college, and there I was between 18 and 23. But of course with roommates, I think it was probably the worst. But there again, I was definitely afraid to say anything to them about it, typically chewing or sneezing. But just because I had to live with those people every day and they weren't my family. I don't really have many like real specific memories with Misophonia from back then, other than just general ones where like I didn't have any like ultra scarring experience or anything with that. what would bother me probably, you know, thinking about it now was like in the classroom where tapping like repetitive noises get me to.

Adeel [43:22]: you Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Andy [43:42]: I consider my misophonia well-rounded. pretty much everything drives me absolutely bonkers. whatever that sound may be in a classroom would drive me nuts. There's always that guy, the drummer guy that likes to tap all over his desk with his pen. And I remember a couple of those. And that would drive me nuts because I'm trying to focus. Like I'm trying to pay attention and this guy's pulling me away from that where my focus now goes straight to that and no nothing else. So that was difficult but never to the point where it like affected my learning really or my grades or anything. And you know, I never said anything about it of course. I just gave an angry look and tried to...

Adeel [44:34]: Yeah.

Andy [44:38]: like, you know, look in and focus on something else until he stops.

Adeel [44:42]: Yeah, a lot of us, right, it's the college years seem to be, for lot of us seem to not be as bad. And I think it is like for a lot of the reasons you said where a lot of stuff is new. Things change, have definitely a lot more agency than you did when you were at home. And therefore control. And you're able to actually leave rooms more often.

Andy [44:59]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Yes, yes.

Adeel [45:14]: Did you ever mention it to a doctor or anything?

Andy [45:19]: Yeah, I mean, you're you're breeding my brain today. Because that's kind of where my head was going next. Yeah, I have. I think the first time I talked to a doctor about it, well, what I did is it was really bothering me. You know, this is within the last.

Adeel [45:22]: Yeah.

Andy [45:41]: less than five years. And so I sought out therapy. And so I had been seeing a psychologist up until October of 2024, for the 10 years prior to that at least. So I was getting, for anxiety and depression. And so I was taking one of the daily medicines for that. And I don't know, I never felt comfortable talking to them about it because usually our conversations was 10, 15 minutes. Do you want more medicine? Okay, good. Okay, here's your medicine. There wasn't really too much digging into the psychology of it all. So I was like, well, that's probably not my best avenue for this. So I reached out to somebody specifically and I looked online just trying to find somebody that had experience with mesophonium. And I found a doctor who did and I started meeting with her and in one of your recent, one of the recent episodes of the podcast, there was a doctor on and one of the things that she talked about was, I believe, therapy trauma. And I have therapy trauma from this person. And what happened was...

Adeel [47:05]: Hmm. No.

Andy [47:11]: At first it was just kind of talking about it to better understand what we're talking about today, how it impacts me and how I cope with it. And it turned into, okay, I got a good idea, so our therapy is going to be what we call exposure therapy.

Adeel [47:18]: Mm-hmm.

Andy [47:34]: Okay, you can see where this is going. So what she had me do was pull up a YouTube video and it was kind of like an ASMR kind of deal. And so it was a three minute video of straight chewing and lip smacking and all those sounds. And she said, okay, today we're gonna talk about, we're gonna have you listen to this and we're gonna talk about it afterwards.

Adeel [47:35]: god, yeah, yeah. jeez. Yeah, yeah.

Andy [48:04]: I was like, yeah, I was like, I was like, okay, I'm gonna trust you on this. Like, let's go. All it did was, know, okay, I kinda understand if you don't know what you're talking about or whatever, like this could help. But it was literally three minutes of torture. I was like, you know, I was like, I don't think this is gonna work. Like, I don't know about this. It's like, well, I mean.

Adeel [48:20]: Yeah.

Andy [48:34]: It's pretty much like, you got to give it a chance. It's about building that more or less muscle memory in your head to where you get so used to the sound that it doesn't bother you anymore. I said, OK, all right. I mean, it makes sense with what you say. And I tried it, and I tried it, and I tried it. And each time, it was just as torturous as the time before. So needless to say, I stopped that.

Adeel [48:57]: Yeah. You

Andy [49:03]: But for...

Adeel [49:05]: Was she gonna keep going with it? Did any idea come into her head where maybe this needs to change course? Or was it?

Andy [49:15]: I don't think so. And that's where it's really difficult dealing with people that don't really understand this. mean, maybe she worked with somebody or she read a bunch of articles about it. I don't know. But she didn't really know what it's like to deal with something like this. And maybe for some other type of condition that exposure therapy works, I don't know. And maybe for some other mesophones it works. But for me, that did not work at all.

Adeel [49:18]: Yeah.

Andy [49:45]: I don't know if there was a part two to this, but it got to the point where I said, you know, I was just like, I can't do this anymore. So I stopped. And so that, that put a real sour taste in my mouth. You know, it's like, well, I guess I just have to deal with this. So, you know, I'm back to that, you know, I'm stuck. I'm isolated. I'm by myself. No one understands. I just got to deal with it. So that's what I did for more years.

Adeel [49:58]: Yeah.

Andy [50:15]: So recently, I said I got off my other medication back in October. And I mean, not that I really should have, I don't think, but the biggest thing with that was like, I was just sick of taking it. You know, it's been 10 years, you know? And they got some side effects. And typically the side effects I noticed are when I don't take the medication. So I just got to the point, I was like, you know, I'm just sick of it. I want to do this on my own.

Adeel [50:32]: Mm-hmm. Hmm.

Andy [50:45]: So I did. I weaned myself off of it and I'm not on that anymore. However, 10 years of being on the thing, or on the stuff, it's funny how I didn't feel like it was doing anything until I'm not on it anymore. So I've noticed, I guess some...

Adeel [50:46]: Mm-hmm. Mmm. Mm-hmm.

Andy [51:12]: obsessive compulsive type things and increased anxiety around certain things and So that's where of late the last six months or so I've noticed an uptick in the level of Chaos or uncontrollability associated with my mesophonia Because at least in my mind or at least how it works for me

Adeel [51:19]: Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Andy [51:40]: the anxiety and my mesophonia to some extent are interlinked. Where if I have increased anxiety, then all of a sudden, just that little chewing that maybe wouldn't bother me if I'm in a good mood becomes unbearable. recently, a couple weeks ago, actually maybe a week ago, my company has this They offer like a health benefit where they give me eight free psychology sessions a year. And so what I did is I set one up with a psychologist and again I'm looking down through my little menu of psychologists trying to find one that potentially could understand what I'm going through.

Adeel [52:22]: Mm-hmm.

Andy [52:41]: And you know, I have other things going on as well. But the misophonia one I thought was key. I selected this therapist and had a meeting with her. And it sounds like, you know, I talked with her about misophonia and like she legitimately seemed like she understood and like kind of knew and she's she says she's been doing this for 34 years.

Adeel [53:04]: Mm-hmm. Mm.

Andy [53:10]: Sounds like she's got some good experience. So maybe like, you know, my therapy trauma was hopefully isolated to that one particular person. And again, it's too early to really know if this therapist I'm working with now is gonna help with that or not. If she leads with exposure therapy, I'm gonna say thank you very much. I'm moving on to the next one.

Adeel [53:28]: Hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hope hasn't, I hope it hasn't been doing it for 34 years, exposed.

Andy [53:38]: Yeah, I hope not. yeah, man, it's been getting worse. And that's where I've been trying to just reach out and find avenues in which I can alleviate some of this or maybe deal with it a little better. And that's where I've been doing a little extra research of late. And it seems like since I've last really looked into it, there are more things coming. And AI being like a commonplace with your Google search now kind of helps too. There's a lot of things I think that are improving for the better around mesophonia. So I'm definitely grateful for that.

Adeel [54:22]: Yeah, well, no, I'd love to hear how things go with this therapist. Yeah, it's the kind of sucky thing about our system is like you go down one avenue and it could lead to good things or it could lead to therapy trauma. And yeah, it's just such an expensive choice that it's hard to, you can't just experiment as we should be able to.

Andy [54:37]: Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Adeel [54:52]: Well, yeah, mean, yeah, we're almost an hour into it. Yeah, anything else you want to share that we haven't gone through? a lot of stuff. Yeah.

Andy [55:05]: Yeah, now I didn't like write anything down, which maybe I should have, but I've been thinking about this a lot, you know, and my goal was to cover like all the little quirks and things that I've experienced over the years. And right now I don't think I have anything like, I know like you're pretty involved in research and getting to, you know, maybe

Adeel [55:09]: No, no, not a lot of people. Yeah.

Andy [55:34]: come up with some more concrete ways for us to manage this and deal with it in the future. So I'm definitely excited as that continues to develop. And I know that's not a tomorrow or next week thing. That's years down the road, maybe even longer. But I am really excited for that. just speaking for myself, it does give me some hope. It's been an all but lifelong. over three decades struggle, two decades sorry, two decades struggle for me dealing with this stuff. So knowing that something's being done about it, at least people are trying, we're getting some funding and hopefully like more to come with that. But that's kind of what I'm looking forward to.

Adeel [56:25]: Yeah, no, no, it's an exciting time. It's getting more attention and yeah, we'll see how it goes. think the best parts are just hearing the conversations like you've been hearing and the ones that people, well, this conversation that other people are gonna hear too and resonate with. thanks for, yeah, no, thanks for coming on and sharing your story, Andy.

Andy [56:54]: For sure, man. I'm really grateful to be here and I really thank you for having this podcast and let me kind of tell my little story.

Adeel [57:03]: So of course, and cut, and that's kinda how I know when to do the thing.

Andy [57:08]: Okay.