Daniella - Artist integrates misophonia into creative journey.

Adeel [0:01]: Welcome to the Misophonia Podcast. This is Season 3, Episode 19. My name's Adeel Ahmad, and I have Misophonia. This week, I'm speaking with Daniela, an artist in Santa Cruz, and someone... who now in her 70s has known she's had misophonia going back to the 60s. It's always interesting talking to one of our older members of our community to get a sense of how misophonia awareness has changed over the years, and also all the coping tips picked up along the way. We talk about sounds that actually make her feel good, books that have helped, polyvagal exercises, EMDR. a form of journaling she uses called morning pages, and many other self-care techniques. We even briefly contemplate the arrival of a misophonia vaccine. Lots of good stuff here, and hey, if you've been enjoying the show and you're in Apple Podcasts, please leave a review. You don't even have to write anything, just hit the stars. It helps us reach more people through their algorithm, and is a small way of doing your part to raise miso awareness. By the way, if you're on that hot new app, Clubhouse, please search for me, search Misophonia, and I should probably come up thinking of starting a room there. All right, now here's my conversation with Danielle. Danielle, welcome to the podcast.

Daniella [1:20]: Thanks, Adeel. I'm so happy to be here with you.

Adeel [1:24]: Yeah, so when we connected, I guess initially at the recent convention, do you want to tell folks kind of around where you're located?

Daniella [1:34]: I'm in Santa Cruz, California. And we're sort of central northern California. We're in that little chink where you see a little chink out of California. We're in that upper part of that. That's the Monterey Bay.

Adeel [1:51]: Yeah. Oh, yeah. I lived in San Francisco for 15, 16 years. So I took many, many road trips down the Juan 17, 101 to kind of hang out in that area. So... Yeah, it's a great part of the world.

Daniella [2:07]: Yeah, it's definitely paradise.

Adeel [2:10]: Yeah, yeah. I'm in a much colder climate now, and I often think about those days by the ocean. Much better for the skin, and yeah, anyways, I keep going around. But yeah, but I guess, so how long have you been there in Santa Cruz area?

Daniella [2:29]: um i moved here in the late 70s 1977 and it was a really sleepy little town and yeah i grew up in la so this was like oh my gosh amazing slower pace and beautiful and uh yeah cheap rent and

Adeel [2:52]: Back then, yeah, kind of a fascinating time. LA had its own issues in the 70s.

Daniella [2:56]: Oh, it was so weird in LA in the 70s where rich people were moving in and doing just insane architecture and, I mean, not in a good way.

Adeel [3:16]: Yeah, right, right. I thought you were going to say insane amounts of cocaine, but that's probably all I'll believe.

Daniella [3:24]: It was all happening. I grew up in this family. Our family was in the movie biz, and my father had a prop house, so he rented all kinds of furniture and tchotchkes to movies, photography, All kinds of things. And I had just finished a graduate degree in fiber art and textile structures at UCLA. And I talked to the first woman set decorator about, I was kind of in quandary, should I stay in LA? Should I move? And she said, if you have something you do that's other than this business, which is so corrupt, get out of here if you can. So I got out of there. Yeah. Never regretted it. And it's fun to go back to LA now and visit my friends from junior high and stuff. And LA has become quite cool. Great architecture and transportation.

Adeel [4:34]: Yeah. Yeah.

Daniella [4:36]: Great art. So it's fun to go back, but I don't think I would want to live there.

Adeel [4:42]: Gotcha. Well, yeah, it'd be a lot of driving anyways to get to a lot of the cool places. So I guess, yeah, so you, let's talk about maybe, I guess, Misa-wise, did you, were you feeling back then, back when you were growing up in LA?

Daniella [5:01]: I was, and I had, I guess, the proverbial dad, you know, my lovely dad chewed with his mouth open, and I think that's maybe where it started and then my mom was a gum chewer and I won't say anything more than that. I think that got me going and I noticed it mostly in college there were incidents and that triggered me and my My roommate, who was my best friend in junior high and high school, we became roommates in college. And every night, she would take out a box of Chips Ahoy, which are chocolate chip cookies, and proceed on those, or an apple. And I would start yelling at her. Poor thing. Oh, my gosh. And now we laugh about it, you know, because I know what the story is and have come out to her about it. But, oh my gosh, that was torturous. And I had teachers that, this is hilarious, I had an Italian Renaissance art teacher who had these leather shoes and he would stand at the slide projector and shift his weight from one to the other. And the shoes would make this sound that I couldn't stop focusing on. And I think I got a D in the class because I had no idea what was going on with the Italian art, but I was so focused on the sound of those leather shoes, you know, I don't even know what, how you would say the sound, but, um, they had me transfixed. Um, so a lot of, I had a professor that smoked and was very nasal, a lot of throat clearing, you know, that kind of stuff.

Adeel [7:24]: Yeah. So I, right. So that's the other thing like back, back then it wasn't just, uh,

Daniella [7:29]: gum that was in the mouth everyone was smoking so there was all kinds of uh yeah which is its own visual trigger i'm sure luckily we don't have to deal with that but i would imagine yeah and smoking was cool when i was young too that was another thing it was always on tv and stuff yeah um so it was cool but um something about the nasal throat clearing yeah

Adeel [7:59]: Yeah, no, it exacerbates the throat issues and that's a huge trigger for a lot of people, including myself. Luckily, the 90s cleared that mess away somewhat.

Daniella [8:15]: I've noticed there are sounds that I get so much joy out of, you know, on the flip side of this. or the sound of footfalls on either stones or pebbles. We have a tree in our neighborhood, a pine tree, and it leaves these segments of, the pine cone itself is more like a rose shape. And when those petals come off and they're on the sidewalk and you walk on them, they do this beautiful uh crunch and it's completely joyful to me whereas people crunching chips make me want to jump out of my skin and i just go wait a minute can't i translate that love's sound to the other that triggers me why you know like Where is the magic between those two things?

Adeel [9:27]: Yeah. Have you thought about that? Do you think it's, I think it's like, you know, if it's coming from somebody, you, your brain assumes that that person is out to get you kind of thing. Whereas if it's just nature, it's, you know, it's an inanimate object.

Daniella [9:41]: That's, you know, I was thinking it's foot versus mouth, you know, hoof and mouth.

Unknown Speaker [9:48]: Okay.

Daniella [9:50]: I don't know.

Adeel [9:50]: That's another angle. Yeah.

Daniella [9:52]: I don't know. I'm working on it. But I'll tell you some things that have helped me a lot. And that one is coming out to people about it, including my grandchildren, who are 5, 8, and 12, and telling them I have this thing, and it makes me sensitive to sounds. also telling my stepchildren and their spouses and referring to the movies and articles that I've read. And so it makes me feel less crazy to, you know, that saying we're only as sick as our secrets.

Adeel [10:51]: Yeah.

Daniella [10:52]: So telling people that I have this thing has helped me not get over it, but it seems to have lessened it a little bit for me.

Adeel [11:07]: Yeah. When did you start telling people? Because obviously you told your college friend in a kind of a more confrontational way back in the, I guess, the 70s. Did you start to tell people when you realized it had a name recently?

Daniella [11:24]: Yes. And when I found out it had a name and I read an article in the New York Times and it was something like, this popcorn sound is making me crazy.

Adeel [11:37]: Yeah, I think that was the one back in 2009 or 2011. I know the one you're talking about. That was definitely a watershed moment.

Daniella [11:45]: Oh, my gosh. And it was like, oh, my God. The other people have this, and there's a name for it, and I'm not completely wackadoodle crazy. Well, yeah, I am wackadoodle crazy, but I thought I was the only one that had it or have it. which I've heard in so many of your interviews with people, that just to know that there's a community and I'm not alone, that's meant a huge, made a huge difference for me. Another thing that's really helped, I've been reading, I'm in recovery. I'm in a 12-step program called ACA, Adult Children Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families, which my parents were not alcoholic, but I don't know if you, do you know of any functional families in this country?

Adeel [12:50]: Yeah, those two words are kind of an oxymoron together.

Daniella [12:58]: Anyway, I've been in that program for about four years and have read all kinds of fabulous books that have helped me immensely and one of them is called Complex PTSD From Surviving to Thriving and the author is Pete Walker and in it and on his website he has these list 13 practical steps for helping yourself manage an emotional flashback. And I can give you the link, and maybe you could put them in your show notes or something, but it's basically grounding yourself in the present, and saying um i feel afraid or i feel angry but i'm not in danger say to yourself i'm having a flashback or in this case i'm being triggered um remind yourself i feel afraid but i'm not in danger um speak reassuringly to your inner child so there are all these um things that can help me, ground me in the present and know that I'm not being attacked or I don't have to flee or any of that stuff. So that's been a huge help.

Adeel [14:31]: Yeah, that's really interesting. Especially what Brett said was the, I feel afraid, but I'm not in danger. I think that's what a lot of us kind of, the sensation that we have when we're in our fight or flight is like, maybe part of our brain feels very afraid, even though we're not in danger. That's an interesting parallel, yeah.

Daniella [14:52]: Yeah, but we're being tricked into thinking.

Adeel [14:55]: Right, tricked, exactly.

Daniella [14:57]: Yeah, racing heart, blah, blah, blah. Another really great one is The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk. And I just finished a book group with the ACA Healing the Shame that Binds You, which is an old classic by John Bradshaw, but super current for today. So those have all been helpful.

Adeel [15:29]: I think your microphone might be rustling a little bit. I'm not sure. Do you have your AirPods on?

Daniella [15:40]: Let me try without and see if maybe... Is that any better?

Adeel [15:45]: I think so, yeah. I don't hear any, there was some like, some like paper rustling or maybe just against your clothes or something. Sounds great now.

Daniella [15:52]: Yeah. This way. I have a funny story. One of my dear friends that I've known since we're very young, you know, I told her about my meso and I called her one day and she didn't answer and she called me right back and she said, I had a mouthful of nuts and I didn't want to screw up our friendship. So it's great because my friends know now and they're accommodating me, you know?

Adeel [16:31]: Yeah.

Daniella [16:32]: And I've had people, you know, when I've told people about my meso, it's been really interesting in some cases where some people have gone, well, their partner will say, you've got that, you've got that. Or the person will say, I have that. Oh my gosh, I'm sure I have that. And they didn't know it was a thing.

Adeel [16:57]: Do you find in those cases, do they actually have that? Or is it, there are a lot of people who have an annoyance sometimes, but they don't really have it, at least to the point where most misophones would agree that they have it. Have you found a lot of like real, quote unquote, real sufferers out there?

Daniella [17:20]: Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, not a lot, but... Right, right, right. But a couple for sure, you know, 100%. So that's been really interesting. We were on a trip in Mexico a few years ago and We had a guide who was a smoker and had a very... Oh, the voice. I don't know. It was really, really irritating to me. And what I did is I just took my phone and I put on my earphones and blasted music. But I mean, I wanted to jump out of the bus. It was so... uh triggering for me and ironically you know she was a historian and had such interesting information content which i really would have enjoyed but i was just nuts completely nuts um i find that uh if i amp up my self-care I'm a lot better off that I'm not as triggered. So it takes a lot of, you know, meditation, exercise. I've been doing the Marty Glenn polyvagal exercise and pass that on to a lot of friends. And I find that completely delicious and so relaxing yeah do you want to talk about that because i've heard of polyvagal but it's not it's not something we've been able to discuss much on the podcast um so um at the convention this was my first convention um i really love the science part of it and forgive me i can't remember the name of the the research doctor that spoke, but about the vagus nerve and polyvagal theory and how this is the longest nerve in our body.

Adeel [19:39]: It could have been Mike Menino.

Daniella [19:43]: Yes. And hearing about Dr. Stephen Porges. I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing that correctly. I've also done the Dr. Tom, the meso muscle relaxation technique, the crunching, squeezing your muscles, tightening your muscles and letting go. And that's also been really, really helpful to me. I've been thinking about... the microbiome and maybe getting tested for that. Do you know anything about that?

Adeel [20:28]: Not in relation to misophonia, I don't. I know that the microbiome in general, obviously, is being studied and used for other therapies. But yeah, I don't know of any. Have you heard of any studies that kind of links those two?

Daniella [20:47]: No, but I want to I mean, that's sort of on my list of checking out and interested in what diet would be really good for me to balance out my system.

Adeel [21:04]: Yeah, I mean, a lot of the things you mentioned, at a minimum, you know, make you healthier and reduce stress. And stress, we know, is a giant exacerbator for me. So, at least in my view, reducing stress helps you kind of roll into a trigger with a little bit more ability, capacity to recover.

Daniella [21:27]: Yeah. Also, what's... helped a lot for me is to have a routine um especially in our crazy times that we're living in with covid um i just complete i'm an artist and i just completed a year-long collage everyday project And so I had this set day where I would come in the studio, put in my AirPods, listen to a little bit of news and then podcasts and work because my hands are going at it. I can listen well. I was just completely engrossed in this project. I finished it 106 days early. Some days I did four collages, and some days I did six. It was just so engaging, and I sent that to you. I made six different films about it, short videos, so that you can see the whole project like a book.

Adeel [22:47]: No, it's amazing, and I'll definitely be, as this goes live, I'll be making them available or posting them. So, yeah, that's really interesting.

Daniella [22:57]: Cool. But, yeah, it's kind of, it's crazy the... You know, I have some triggers that are old, some that are new, some that are brand new. You know, recently the dog has been doing a lot of grooming, so it's not only visual, but it's auditory. And I love that dog to the moon, but yeah, I have to hide myself.

Adeel [23:34]: Interestingly, because you probably had a dog for a while that all of a sudden it started triggering you.

Daniella [23:37]: Oh, yeah, 13 years.

Adeel [23:39]: Yeah. So same dog for 13 years that it just started triggering you.

Daniella [23:42]: Yeah.

Adeel [23:43]: Interesting.

Daniella [23:43]: So I don't know. Maybe it's a COVID, a branch of COVID or something. But I have found a pair of earplugs that work for me really well for sleeping. max pillow soft silicone putty earrings earplugs okay yeah i think i've heard of this max brand before um yeah they have them for kids and they have them for adults and sometimes um i use them in conjunction with a pair of noise canceling headphones and that

Adeel [24:26]: takes everything away getting those two things pretty much deaf at that point except for whatever you want to pump into the to the headphones yeah that's a good combination that's like a extra strength tylenol or super strength it's like the codeine of um misophonia yeah exactly exactly So when do you get triggered? Are you, well, you get your dog, sounds like you got a beautiful life in an art studio. What are kind of, and do you live with your, I mean, I'm assuming probably if you have grandkids, your kids are living elsewhere. Are you?

Daniella [25:06]: No. So this is a, this is a wild story. So a little over five years ago, I was in my pretty big, maybe thousand square foot art studio. And, doing tiny artwork with and reading atul gawande's being mortal and he talked about the all the generations living together and he's a doctor his father and maybe mother were doctors his father was dying of cancer and he was just talking about in india how all the generations live together And my wife and I were living in this 2,400 square foot home, many rooms which we did not go into. Our middle son and his wife and two kids were bursting out of their house and expecting a third. And we were running over there and doing a lot of child care. So and Kim, my wife and I were always talking about we want a window seat. We wanted this. We wanted that, a loft. So I thought, what if we turn my art studio into everything that we want? Because we're in our 70s and we want to get rid of things. We've done acquiring stuff. And we give the big house to our kids. They move in. We do child care. We have a family compound, blah, blah, blah. So it's taken us a little over five years. And Kim and I have what we call our hip granny palace, which is everything we want, a beautiful, modern 800-square-foot that we live in. Then I have a little pop-up. shed which is 10 by 12 feet in the yard and it's basically a one tush studio and so i have a place where i can go to and be alone and it's complete with fittings for a hammock so i can lay down and take a nap in the afternoon um and the kids the our middle son wife and three grandkids are in the front house so we have this family compound And it's really fantastic because we're all quarantining together. And we're helping with homeschooling. And it's pretty idyllic, I got to say.

Adeel [28:03]: Yeah, that sounds great. I mean, you got an art studio plus a shed, an escape shed. Yeah, she shed. Yeah, she shed, which I'm assuming it's quite the, it's a bit of a misophonia escape as well.

Daniella [28:21]: Everything escapes.

Adeel [28:23]: Oh, beautiful. Beautiful. Yeah. And the hammock too. Oh my God. Yeah. I've got a hammock, but it's like, you know, it's like a two and a half season hammock because we got severe winters over here. So, yeah.

Daniella [28:35]: Indoor hammock. Yeah.

Adeel [28:37]: Oh, indoor hammock. Yeah. Oh, I should just do that too. Yeah.

Daniella [28:40]: And for pandemic, I bought all the kids. Well, everybody in the family, all my stepchildren, the grandchildren, I bought everybody their own hammock.

Adeel [28:55]: Nice.

Daniella [28:55]: And we got a ping pong table and we got a little pool. So we're set.

Adeel [29:03]: And this is the family that you told them a while ago. So everyone knows that you have misophonia.

Daniella [29:10]: Oh, yeah.

Adeel [29:11]: So what was the reaction of the different age groups here? You know, five going up to your, even your kids and your in-laws.

Daniella [29:22]: I think the best one was the eight-year-old. And I don't, she really listened to me and she looked at me and sometimes, you know, she'll say, okay, I'm going to go outside and eat my chips. So they get it. Yeah, I think the eight-year-old was the most receptive.

Adeel [29:47]: Yeah. And I'm curious, did you say you also have a 12-year-old?

Daniella [29:53]: Mm-hmm.

Adeel [29:53]: Granddad? Okay, yeah, yeah.

Daniella [29:55]: Grandson, yeah.

Adeel [29:58]: Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting because that's kind of around the time when, well, I guess between 8 and 12, a lot of people start to notice it. I was curious if you had maybe noticed it in anyone else in your family.

Daniella [30:12]: I haven't, but... I hope that continues. Yeah, I hope it doesn't turn up in any of my darlings.

Adeel [30:25]: Yeah, yeah. You mentioned you and your wife were in your 70s. I don't know if you had a chance to listen to the Lyle episode. He was also actually at the convention. He's also in his, I believe in his 70s, at least his 60s. But he was on one of the first few episodes. And yeah, he also had some really interesting stories of just how there was no awareness back in the, 60s and um and uh i mean i i am curious maybe like what you were telling us about some of the experiences with your um junior high friend who went to college but um i and i don't remember do we talk about let's talk about maybe your how you reacted with your parents at that early early age

Daniella [31:20]: I used to yell at my mom to not chew gum in French because I was learning French.

Adeel [31:31]: I'm Canadian, so I know exactly what you're saying. Okay, yeah, yeah, right. Okay, so we did talk about at least, yeah, what they were triggering. I'm curious as to, yeah, kind of how that dynamic went. Like, did they just kind of brush you off and say, think you're crazy? Because that's kind of what Lyle and other folks I've talked to from, who had it from, you know, 60 year or so years ago would say because there was no like mental health issues were just not talked about i mean it was really that start to come to the forefront from the 70s onward so uh must have been must have been pretty isolating yeah well i i don't think i got it you know i mean it didn't stop her from chewing gum for one thing

Daniella [32:25]: Um, but not that she was trying to torture me. She just, I guess, doing that. Um, and yeah. And with the college roommate, I just, I just feel so bad because I didn't know what it was. Um, I just wanted her to stop. Um, but yeah, I mean, I think when you're growing up, you just accept things as normal and try to, I guess I tried to work around it. I didn't leave the house, but I did get really angry at my mom and let her know.

Adeel [33:15]: Did you have siblings too growing up?

Daniella [33:19]: I have a sister, had a sister, but she's 15 years older than me, and so she got married when I was five, and she was out of the house.

Adeel [33:30]: Oh, wow, okay. Gotcha.

Daniella [33:34]: Yeah, but I'll tell you a funny story. Yeah. It's not really miso, but it's a little OCD. So my sister had her first child when I was... eight and for the child's first birthday my sister and i made 87 tuna sandwiches and in those days you had white bread and wheat bread and you know one was white and one was brown and like wonder bread kind of bread and she taught me how to make a tuna sandwich and to spread the tuna to the very ends of the bread. And so to this very day, every time I make really any sandwich, I think of my sister and spreading that, you know, making sure every part of that sandwich, that bread is covered. I think it's a little OCD, don't you?

Adeel [34:36]: Well, yeah, and it's definitely not an unusual comorbid condition, a little bit of OCD and misophonia. It's not the first time I've heard that kind of story. And I'm curious, yeah, so you're practically kind of a... kind of an only child at home. When you got out into the, I'm curious about kind of your work experience after you left LA. Were you ever like in a kind of an office environment where you're like working closely with other people?

Daniella [35:13]: I have had many during my lifetime. I've done a lot of art commissions for public buildings, but when those weren't happening, then I would take a job, you know, in an office setting. And I don't remember any being triggered by any office situation the way I hear people being triggered now. So, no. And I don't know if I have a... mild form of meso or i don't know just different because i've heard many people who um are triggered in many ways and many environments.

Adeel [36:00]: So, yeah, I mean, it's really isn't really a strict definition, I guess. But if it's I mean, you know, if you have that fight or flight situation or sensation, I know some people who just have it from crunching and not really anything else. In an office environment these days, there's so many open offices that there's sounds coming from everywhere. So I know before that, the trend was definitely more individual office rooms. So much easier to close the door and get away.

Daniella [36:39]: Yeah, yeah, I did work at the university at UC Santa Cruz and I did have my own office. So that was pretty wonderful. There you go. Yeah, that's great.

Adeel [36:50]: You little she shed at work. Yeah, that's nice. And did, I'm curious about your art commissions. Is there anything around Santa Cruz that people would know about? Any giant sculptures or paintings?

Daniella [37:07]: No, no giant sculptures or paintings. We have an award here called the Rydell Award, a fellowship of which I am a recipient. And we have shows at the local Museum of Art and History. But that's nothing permanent. I do have... Things like Bonaventure Hotel in L.A., some giant tapestry, and not sure if it's still up. That was in the 70s, and I have a feeling they may have changed decor. Yeah, right. But I am, at this point, so I've done this project, it's 365 pages that are each 11 by 15 inches and they're collages and they're sewn after the collage dries, then I zigzag stitch them together. it's pretty interesting where front and back are interesting so you can see on the back side just the stitching and it becomes like an architectural drawing so What I'm doing now is looking for a venue like a hospital or a hotel, if they're still building hotels, I think they are, where this could be displayed. It's something like 345 running feet. And to show it front and back. So that's kind of what I'm working on right now is finding a venue for that.

Adeel [38:54]: And so do you find, does your miso kind of get into your artwork at all? Like, do you use it to express misophonia or maybe just to kind of like use it as kind of an outlet?

Daniella [39:05]: I, you know, I do a lot of designing of patterns. My background is in textiles and I also design stencils for a company. And I think the miso i think comes out in repetition um is my guess i don't draw literally you know the sound is driving me crazy kind of thing or you know my hands on my ears or I'm more abstract, more influenced by architecture, patterns, nature. So I think literally to discover misophonia in my work, not so much, but maybe in terms of repetition of form or pattern.

Adeel [40:06]: Right, right, right. And do you find, though, do you ever go to art to recover from a trigger, maybe?

Daniella [40:16]: Or it's totally separate? Maybe. I don't think so. More like move, take a walk, be out in the nature. uh is more helpful to me uh in that trigger moment than doing art i think it's yeah it's more of a body i want to move my body

Adeel [40:46]: Yeah, okay, okay. So it's literally kind of a flight situation. Maybe not literally in a year.

Daniella [40:53]: Oh, yeah.

Adeel [40:54]: At this point, since your whole family knows, yeah, I'm imagining since your whole family knows, you can basically just get up and go. And everyone will be like, yep, okay.

Daniella [41:05]: Just got to put on my mask and get out of here.

Adeel [41:08]: Yes. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of that, I mean, how has kind of quarantine and quarantine life been for you? Speaking of masks, I mean, a lot of people are saying that masks have been pretty good for hiding potential visual triggers. Quarantining, you know, being stuck at home with a lot of people is, How's this present calling? Sounds like you have a nice situation with multiple little escape hatches. How's it been this year? Have you noticed a change?

Daniella [41:41]: It's been up and down. In the beginning, I loved it because I'm one of these introvert, extrovert kind of people.

Adeel [41:52]: Yeah, yeah.

Daniella [41:54]: And I was just going, oh my gosh, I get to stay home and do my work. This is like the best thing that's ever happened to me. And then fatigue of that and then just wanting to go to a store and wanting to be around friends and wanting to hug my friends and not let go. I don't know. I feel okay right now. I'm kind of resigned to it. But last night we were walking the dog and my wife said, I just want to eat out more. We need that kind of pleasure. You know, we've been eating our own food too much and we just left and we went to a local place and got some ribs. We got a rack of ribs and it was so yummy. so yeah it's been up and down initially I was just overjoyed to be stuck at home with my you know in the studio with my artwork that was bliss I know it's kind of like a mandatory retreat but yeah but then not being able to be inspired going out and kind of like being inspired by other things can kind of take away from that a little bit Yeah, I would, early on, I would like put on my mask, go out every day, you know, later in the afternoon, and I'd go hill climbing in our neighborhood to get my cardio going. And then take a lot of pictures of flowers or, you know, nature. that was really gratifying to me i got my endorphins going i got my aesthetics going um so yeah moving moving really helps and being in nature definitely yeah gotcha have you uh over the years have you ever gone to see like a uh professional like therapist or audiologist about your miso um i have gone to a therapist for emdr training um which has helped a lot um it's the eye movement uh rapid i forget what the emdr stands for i forget too but there was one other guest um i think she's actually in high school who who um who mentioned that um so yeah you want to describe that again Well, there's different ways of doing it, but you can do it with your eyes, where you look from left to right, left to right, or they give you these paddles that you hold in your hand, and it's like a little vibration. And there's something about the movement between your... Maybe it's the two sides of your brain that... calm you down. And so I've done that. And I've also taken Rescue Remedy, which is a Bach flower concoction, which helps calm me down as well.

Adeel [45:24]: Is it like a tea?

Daniella [45:27]: It's like a tincture. So it's suspended in alcohol, and they might have it without alcohol for people who can't have alcohol. But it's BACH flour, and they have this thing called Rescue Remedy, which helps in a lot of areas with fight or flight or sleep or stuff like that.

Adeel [45:54]: Right.

Daniella [45:55]: um yeah done therapy for many many many years not currently not currently okay well that's good it's not because you've given up it's because you're in a better place but um you know who has become one of my latest greatest heroes is Brene Brown oh my gosh I listen to her podcasts and

Adeel [46:22]: she is just brilliant she's about shame and vulnerability and um so good so good yeah it's a village a deal you know what i'm saying yeah no you've got a little one there and seems like everyone's uh aware and supportive um it sounds like yeah you got into a pretty good place uh well relatively um in your little uh compound in santa cruz it's a nice little routine guy going on there which actually yeah you said earlier that routine uh kind of helps you um is is it uh is it kind of that order maybe is it related to a little bit of ocd that it kind of like uh gives you the more comfort that you're kind of doing the same things yes i think that's very true and um

Daniella [47:16]: I'm a person who has also done morning pages for a zillion years.

Adeel [47:22]: What is that? You're bringing out all these cool things I've never heard of. Morning pages, what's that?

Daniella [47:30]: So there is an author, an artist named Julia Cameron, and she wrote a book called The Artist's Way. And... She has these two things that she recommends you do. And one is to get your, I think they're mainly to get your inner critic out of your life and your head. And one is morning pages are when you sit down first thing in the morning, if possible, and you hand write three, pages of whatever comes out of your pen and your head. And you don't think about it and you just do those three pages or you just write. And I'm down to one page. I don't do three pages anymore. But I have a pen fetish. That's another little OCD thing of mine.

Adeel [48:29]: A pen fetish?

Daniella [48:31]: Oh, I love pens and fountain pens and sometimes I have to find the perfect blue ink. Oh my gosh. So, by the way, my license plate says DW OCD star.

Adeel [48:52]: Okay, yes. Wow, that's quite the owning of the condition. I like that. I should get Miso Man as my license plate.

Daniella [49:07]: You know, there's a restaurant in Portland called Miso Happy, H-A-P-I.

Adeel [49:12]: Right, right. You know, if I go Miso Man, they'll think I just drink a lot of Japanese soup.

Daniella [49:18]: Right. probably so anyway morning pages are three pages it's like a brain drain and you just let out whatever yeah there and and it's a way to see what you're up against you know who's your inner critic and what is she saying about you today and it's really great and I have done You know, when the inner critic is in the studio with me, I'll just open the door and I'll just say, I don't need your help today. I'd like you to leave. Or I'll put on headphones if she's blob lying at me saying, how could you be so stupid? I'll just blast music in there, you know, and drown her out. So that's one thing with Julia Cameron morning pages. And then I shred them because it's such a bunch of whiny ass stuff.

Adeel [50:22]: Oh, I was going to ask you to post them so I can share them.

Daniella [50:26]: I shred them and I put them in my artwork.

Adeel [50:30]: Oh, that's interesting. Yeah.

Daniella [50:32]: Yeah. So, and this project that I worked on, which I called Perfect Pandemic Project. So each morning I'd come in, I'd write a page of morning pages. And then I would cut it in two inch strips, which was the alleyways, the, you know, the frame part of my collage. And so almost each page has morning pages of that day in it. But you can't really read them, you know, because they stop at two inches. So you get little bits and pieces. Right. So she recommends that. And then she recommends that you, once a week, you take yourself on an artist date, which is you don't ask anybody else to go, but you go somewhere. by yourself and just discover things like you could go to paper vision which is a great store downtown and they have calendars and posters and kids things and little knickknacks and um you just go and you explore and that kind of fills your creativity cup a little bit you know because as artists we just put out put out put out and you need to put in you know to excite your coffers a little bit so yeah you need to you need to fill yeah fill yourself up again to and let that kind of let that digest or whatever the right word is for that percolate yeah so the artist's way and then people do groups you know they um she has suggestions for maybe 12 different weeks to do groups and um They're pretty good. They're pretty challenging also. And one year I went into one of the boxes that I kept all my morning pages in and I saw repetition of stuff so much and i thought oh my god if i drop dead and my kids or my wife or my grandkids read this stuff they'll find out how truly boring i am so i shred everything up and got rid of them

Adeel [52:58]: Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, I mean, I've heard of journaling as a form of, you know, pretty common form of getting things out. Do you ever log maybe kind of miso triggers? Like are you at that level where you're kind of like logging those in a written form?

Daniella [53:16]: Oh, no, but what a great idea.

Adeel [53:19]: Yeah.

Daniella [53:20]: That's a cool idea. I like them.

Adeel [53:23]: Cool. Well, yeah, we're running up to about an hour here. I mean, I feel like maybe I'll have to have you back on later in the year. I'm sure you've got a whole slew of interesting... little uh ideas art related stuff that that that you do to deal with me so or just kind of like self-care techniques um but is there anything you want to kind of say now to the audience or share that uh uh that might help that um you know and as we kind of wind down definitely go to the next convention definitely check out marty glenn polyvagal exercise and um dr tom's

Daniella [54:08]: muscle relaxation technique and um yeah try and step up your self-care and see if that doesn't help your meso go down go away yeah yeah i hope we find a cure wouldn't that be so excellent oh yeah

Adeel [54:30]: self-care reducing stress um yeah just trying those things which are which will have other benefits anyways but i think that could help me so and uh while we wait for this uh uh a miso vaccine forget about this coveted vaccine let's uh let's have all all hands on deck for the miso vaccine yeah right yeah yeah maybe a two for one Danielle, I want to thank you for coming on. You shared a lot of really interesting stuff that I don't usually hear on the show, unorthodox stuff. So it's great to hear about your experiences, especially going back to the 70s and beyond.

Daniella [55:09]: Well, thank you so much. And thank you for doing what you're doing. It's just such a great service for so many people.

Adeel [55:17]: Thank you, Danielle. So many great self-care ideas in there and should inspire all of us to look for our own. I also hope you're enjoying your Shida and Daniela in Santa Cruz as I'm sitting here in negative temperatures. I wish I had my hammock up. If you're enjoying the shows, don't forget to leave a little review in Apple Podcasts. Hit me up on Instagram or Facebook at Misophonia Podcast or Twitter at Misophonia Show. music as always is by mobi and until next week wishing you peace and quiet