[00:00:00] Adeel: Kyle, welcome to the podcast. Good to have you here.

[00:00:02] Kyle: Thank you. Thanks for having me. Right on.

[00:00:04] Adeel: Yeah we, as you just sang that you've listed a lot of episodes. I'd like to get a feel for where people are.

[00:00:09] Kyle: I live in New

[00:00:10] Adeel: Orleans. Oh, right on.

Okay. And yeah, so what do you do out there in,

[00:00:14] Kyle: New Orleans? So I'm an artist. I'm a cartoonist. I draw comics. I'm a printmaker, mostly screen printing. Also play music. But to make money, I'm an art teacher. I teach high school art. Been doing that. I'm at, been in my current job about 13 years.

I also I'm married. I have a wife of 18 years. I've got two little kids, a six and a three year old, and recently moved to a new house. So when I'm not doing all those other things, I'm settling into this new house. It's a big part of my life these days too.

[00:00:44] Adeel: Fixing stuff up, I'm assuming . Just getting settled.

[00:00:48] Kyle: Yeah. Just getting it livable again. Getting stuff out of boxes, all of that.

[00:00:52] Adeel: Yeah. Yeah. Right on. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, a lot of stuff going on there. Let's talk about maybe the teaching part right now where you're not probably going into a classroom at this time, I'm assuming.

Are you doing online

[00:01:03] Kyle: teaching? No, I am actually. Oh, you are? Okay. Gotcha. Part of the year was yeah, so there was part of my school year that was just at home. But since we've had different phases, Yeah, I don't know. But currently I've been back at school, I don't know, a few months. So we I'm there four days a week and then we're off on Wednesdays so they can like clean the building and we can have a separation day.

And and my students only come, I have a group to come two days a week, another group come another two days a week. So yeah, I'm in, I'm there some, I'm on the computer, some, a little bit of both this year.

[00:01:35] Adeel: Gotcha. Okay. Okay. So with all the things you got going on, How is misophonia playing into your, kinda your present life and will, we'll go back to the, to early Kyle days later, but yeah, curious what the state of affairs

[00:01:47] Kyle: is now.

Yeah. So yeah, I've heard people say I've heard you talk about in the podcast about different jobs maybe being better for meso or not, and. I could see where for some people being in like a classroom setting might be pretty challenging cuz there's people around all the time.

I've never really found that. It's interesting, it's interesting the way, some of us have certain things that. Trigger us in certain things, certain situations were fine. And for me in teaching, nothing's really bothered me too much. The one thing that has in more recent years started to get to me a little is when I have students chewing gum.

But it's interesting that's only been, past few years or so, that I've really started to notice that more. And so I actually I guess there's been something of a, like a awakening for me about the film meso thing in the last few years. When I, from when I learned what it was, that it had a name and then just starting to take small steps to take it more seriously and like really acknowledge this is like a real thing that I need to do something about.

And so at school, Oh, two or three years ago, I actually put it in my syllabus that I have misophonia and as an explanation for like, why you can't, chew gum in class or whatever. And and so I that's been interesting using it as a little brief moment to spread the word about meso a little bit.

Explain it. So this is your, yeah,

[00:03:04] Adeel: so this is like a, the syllabus is just like a teacher bio or something for kids to learn a little bit more about you. Is it on like the website for the.

[00:03:12] Kyle: It's not on the website, it's just the syllabus I give them at the beginning of the class, the beginning of the school year, that kind of like who you are explains what the class is about and then what the class, classroom rules are, that kind of thing.

[00:03:23] Adeel: Ah, and so what's been the what's been the feedback to that? You, have, you had anyone push back or be curious or

[00:03:29] Kyle: maybe even identify? I. Yes, I have had a couple students be like, oh, I think I might have that. Or oh, I have that, or, and yeah, I never really got much deeper into it with them than that.

But I thought I guess I hoped that maybe oh, maybe I taught them the word for the first time and they'll go learn more about it or something. Just a small little way of advocating about absolutely. That's

[00:03:50] Adeel: something I've been thinking about if I've used to mention the podcast, how I'd like to go to school counselors or, and try to have more people inside schools aware of it so that they can look for kids who might be falling behind because they just cannot stand it at school for, and this being definitely,

[00:04:09] Kyle: I know, and I've heard you talk a lot about accommodations at school or at work and I know accommodations are a big important thing at my school for kids with different.

Different issues. I've never heard anyone specifically say meso as an issue, but, . Yeah. I'm curious. Surely there are many, there are numerous kids at my school that have it. And so I would, I was wondering, yeah, if maybe it, it could be interesting to try to get a club started or something to just raise a little awareness around school without it, I dunno, I haven't gotten there yet.

Just kinda been thinking.

[00:04:36] Adeel: You got enough stuff going on. But that would be interesting. There's that UCLA group at the college level, which a lot of people are interested in. So yeah, it would be great if it was gonna spread around at different levels of school.

So before, so you said yeah, you didn't really notice it much at school until a couple years ago. Before that, was it mainly outside school at the home or just in kind of social situations

[00:04:58] Kyle: that you were feeling it? Yeah. Definitely originate, originated more at home. It started when I was really young with my parents.

So yeah, I was reflecting on where this things originated. And my earliest memories would be, I think I would prob I must have been five years old. I remember all of a sudden noticing my mom's eating and just really being bothered by it and just. I'm not understanding like, where did this come from?

I was only five, but I just I remember thinking about like, why is this all of a sudden happening? And I never noticed it before. Did I change? Did she change? Something changed and it was around the same time that my mom was pregnant with my sister. And so it, I remember thinking in my brain like this is one thing that changed.

Could this be it? And then now I'm like, looking back was I jealous? Was there stress around that? That moment of. Things changing in my life or something. I don't know. I don't know really what the cause is, but anyways that's where it first started was with my mom and her eating.

And then I remember I guess I must have been really upset or something at one point and my dad pulled me aside and was mad at me and I was like, there's something about my mom's eating. And he essentially just was dismissive. Understanding or supportive. And and so I think I really, I learned in that moment like just keep your mouth shut and just, this is like my problem, I gotta deal with this myself internally.

And I don't know that I ever brought it up again, even though it just tortured me the rest of my childhood and still does. But I just knew that the response was like I'm not interested in that. Stop complaining. Never really brought it up.

and then later my dad also became a trigger, his eating. And then a lot of things with my, I actually, I was I made a list for this so we could think about what all the things were and when, and realized like there were a lot of things with my dad too. I always think of it starting with my mom, but then with my dad, they're thinking around Breathing sounds like nose wheezing.

I remember sitting in church like next to, right next to him and just being like, please get me out. Right there, all I could hear was the sound of the nose and yeah. Yeah. Just so many things about the way that the mouth moved. Eating ice cream. Ice cream, all these different things about my dad.

Absolutely. That grew over the coming years.

[00:07:00] Adeel: Did it did it, so you said yeah, you never brought it up again cuz you were definitely gonna be dismissed. Did it turn into , of basically starting to try to avoid spending time with your family as much as you could.

Obviously you had to be taken to places like church, but just I'm curious to how that how that, subliminally, especially in your case, subliminally because you weren't talking about it, how it affected your relationship with your, with the, with your other family

[00:07:22] Kyle: members. I think so I definitely remember my strategy during meal times because we were a family who would sit at the table together for dinner and, yeah.

I would just keep my head down, focus on my food. I d I realized, if I could just focus on what I'm doing, my plate what, and put my brain on that, then it could distract me from what's going on around me. But my main strategy was like, eat and get outta there as quick as I could.

And then, up to my room and spend the rest of my evening up there away from everyone. I don't know because I I definitely am a, was a shy kid. I've always been introverted. Kept to myself. Maybe part of that could connect to the miso and things I learned from those experiences.

I think it connects to, other broader things in my personality in life as well too. It all comes together to, yeah, I think I've tended toward a kind of life of keep them to myself more and not being a big social person. Did

[00:08:14] Adeel: At that point, did you start to You're going your, is that when you start to get interested in art music, and did you ever use those as a way to I know for me, and I definitely would listen to a lot of music, but also I just remember having songs stuck in my head and I think on purpose, just so I can distract myself from anything that was around me.

I'm curious if you noticed any kind of connection between using art as a way to distract yourself

[00:08:34] Kyle: as.

So I don't know that I ever made like a direct connection to that. , but I definitely see, it makes a lot of sense that you, art as like a, is a mostly for me, mostly solitary practice and even music making too, like sitting in my room, playing my guitar and writing songs or whatever.

Yeah, it's something I've almost always done alone. And I love, that's, I love those moments. The best. Just like being in the zone. Yeah. By myself, deep into a project in my own brain. Yeah, the fact that I'm not having to deal with the stresses of other peoples, whether that's the sounds they're making or other things I definitely think that probably relates to why I ended up down this path of being an artist.

[00:09:18] Adeel: Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And. And so you weren't you weren't talking about it much at home. What about at school and with your friends growing up? Was that something that were you being triggered by them? That doesn't always happen. I've heard, but I'm curious if you mentioned it to anybody or if there were any incidents.

[00:09:34] Kyle: so not really. I do recall a friend, like a neighborhood friend who I would hang out a lot with around the neighborhood who . I was probably like middle school age or something, and all of a sudden, Monday. , I noticed the way he was eating and I noticed that response to myself, the same as I was with my parents.

And I was like, oh, no, , it's not him too, yeah. Cause I think I saw the thing with my parents. Yeah. So there was that moment. But I don't know I feel like I always had this way of a little bit knowing. shift my brain over, like shifting the attention or distracting myself onto something else.

When I was feeling myself triggered. So maybe in the future when I, if he was eating, I would just kinda like focus on PD or something like that and try not to think about it. But so there was that one friend, but other, I don't recall any other friends or people in school growing up. I don't remember it being an issue with them.

Yeah. For so long it was my parents. It was all about my parents. Yeah, for the. ,

[00:10:29] Adeel: same here. And then I'm assuming at some point, either college or right after things started to

[00:10:33] Kyle: just explode. Really I would say honestly, my parents always remained an issue. Yeah. But the stuff that's that I deal with more these days didn't really occur.

I'd say more like my thirties really. Okay. Once a bunch of other things started, Accumulate I don't know, in my twenties I was away from my parents, so maybe that was like a kind of a relief to not have that input. And yeah, in a way I think, I didn't notice it so much for a decade or so, , I don't know.

I was having fun living life discovering, I'd moved to a different town and making new. I was drinking way more than I should have been. And just in this whole other head space that I don't know in a way, got me away from that in some way. That's weird. It

[00:11:18] Adeel: is. It really parallels my life when yeah, I, in my twenties, I didn't notice probably as much until probably the mid north.

Slow when I was, I guess in my later twenties. And then that's probably what led me to start to Google random, keywords related to hating sounds and whatever. And stumbled upon some articles. Yeah. But but yeah, I was similarly, like we had moved away from home, probably, living home for the first time, so able to control the environment.

Consuming beverages of various types, and it's, having fun. Do you know then what happened? What led to the change for you when things started to accumulate?

[00:11:51] Kyle: That's a good question. Yeah. I guess I would point to when dog barking started to become an issue for me.

Ah that was, , I forget exact, probably early thirties or so. So I'm 42. So 10 a decade ago or so I lived at a house where there was a dog behind my house that would, was barking all the time and, , I'd never noticed. Dog barking had never been an issue before, but I started to notice it and just how constant it was.

And it was every day. And then I started to notice, . I think this dog situation I would consider it borderline abusive or neglectful, the way the owner was kind neglecting the dog. And I had this whole like fear of conflict and, I think from the way I was raised, it's learned like, oh, don't you know, no point in approaching people cuz they're just gonna get mad at you or whatever. I really struggled with how to deal with that situation and there was a lot of kind of emotion. Turmoil happening over that. And I did take certain steps eventually calling the ftca and the police and trying to talk to the owner and all this stuff.

And nothing actually ever happened, but it was just such a stressful situation that yeah, the dog barking just, it just started to really just tear me up. Eventually I moved from there had about two years without dogs barking. And then at the new house, the neighbors got some dogs and the dog.

Their dogs, they would mostly be outside all the time, barking all the time. So that just exacerbated it. Just kept building it, building and building. So dog barking is actually probably the main one that I really struggle with today. I moved to a new house last summer. The dog barking issue was one thing I was trying to get away from, as well as a few other issues at the previous place.

I, I basically solved most of the problems with the other place by moving to the new place, but not the dog pro problem. Okay. Okay. Here unfortunately this is my third house in a row where now I have other neighbors who have dogs that bark a lot. And I really told my, like I went into this very hopeful telling myself like

I knew when I saw the house, there was a dog barking at a neighbor's house and I thought, oh. I don't know if I can do this. And yeah, but this house is so great in all the other ways that I decided I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna, I can do it, I can pull it off. I'm gonna go into, with the right attitude and that just fell apart pretty, yeah.

Quickly. So I'm still very much dealing with the dog barking. It's interesting how that optimism

[00:14:10] Adeel: can can make us feel like we can overcome anything when we're not, like hyper, hyper trigger. Probably when you're seeing the house, we're, there's relatively low stress cuz we're excited about the future and the amazingness of this house.

So our triggers pro probably not as, we're not gonna get triggered as much as we normally would when, you finally buy the house, you're like finally sitting on your own, and now you're ripe to be triggered by that dog. It's interesting how we overlook that from for the optimism.

So are some of the steps that you had mentioned that you're working on the house now are some of the steps maybe Making it clad, cladding your house in some kind of acoustic material. Or any kind of acoustic treatments at all, or just

[00:14:51] Kyle: unrelated a little bit.

Yeah, so a little of both. But yes, I actually have been doing some things related to the dog issue. One of the rooms in my house is my art studio and it. tends to be the way the house laid out fairly close to the side of the house where this dog is, so I can very clearly hear them if there's not any, like white noise or anything going on. Basically I have four different white noise machines around my house. Strategically flipped, strategically placed in points where I can hear them most clearly to block the sound when I'm in those spaces. But, and then it's in this room in my studio.

There's a window unit in this room cause it was like the kind of added on later room, so it's not part of the air conditioning of the house. And in that window unit hall, sound just comes right in. So I blocked it up real nicely with a couple layers of wood and insulation and things to really try to, as best a good minimize sound, intrus.

I also there's I guess there's different companies probably that make these anti barking sound machines that you can they put out, like when a dog barks, it puts out a I don't know, the terminology, ultrasonic, low level sound that humans can't hear, but dogs don't like the way it sound or something like that.

Yeah. And so eventually it trains them that they're barking, makes the sound that they don't like supposed to decrease the barking. Oh, I've heard of that. I on the fence. And it seems to help a little bit. They still go to other parts of the yard and bark, but they seem to avoid like the fence area closer.

Eventually they'll get it me a little more. It's a small movement. Very interesting. I'm considering putting a fence up against like a wooden, like a really solid wooden fence there. There's a chain link fence currently. So yeah, some things like that go. Yeah. Yeah. Very

[00:16:34] Adeel: cool. Yeah, I'd be curious to see how that all progresses.

Ha. Have you noticed like a pretty sign already? A pretty significant decrease in the sound coming in or

[00:16:43] Kyle: still work in progress? I think it's less from the noise machine. Okay. And then really, really the main strategy that helps is the white noise using air. , white n app on my phone.

The white noise machine scattered around the house. Yeah. Yeah. I turn on the when I'm in the kitchen, the the vent over the stove. The fan makes a good noise that lock it out. The window unit running, just things like that make noise. Or my main, the white.

That really helps. Yeah.

[00:17:11] Adeel: Yeah, classic stuff. The white noise machines around the house, they're just units you plug into the wall. You don't have installed grilled speakers or anything around your house that automatically turn on as you're walking through the house.

[00:17:21] Kyle: That's a great idea. No, I don't have that, but I, if I lived by myself that I would definitely do that. My wife hates white noise machines. She tells me that's gonna be my next question. White noise machines, as much as I hate the dogs, Okay. Okay. So I have to use 'em strategically, when I'm in my studio by myself, like I can do whatever I want, but, if I'm a safe in the kitchen with the family and know I don't want to be annoying them by blaring white noise.

So I have to try to balance right balance, their needs with my needs. You should just

cook

[00:17:49] Adeel: a lot of smokey food. Then you have to turn that fan on at the at the stove, I think. Yeah. Is how's the family doing then, in terms of accom accommodating you, maybe helping you out or not or just

[00:18:01] Kyle: dealing with it?

Around the time that I learned the term misophonia and found stuff on the internet I don't know that was. , 6, 7, 8 years ago, something like that. . I told my wife about it and it was okay, this is interesting. And I felt like it helped her be a little more understanding at that point that this is a real thing that I'm serious about.

It's not just some like little small complaint that I have. So that helped. But it still was it's been challenging I think it's been a. Between my wife and I of kind of high points and low points off and on of she's been very supportive, but she also can take it personally at times.

Yeah. And be upset by it. And, which I think is completely understandable. It can't be an easy thing to, have to live with someone who has this and is saying, I don't want to eat in the same room as you, or something like that. Yeah, it's been challenging, but I think I think.

me taking it more seriously and me, trying to really proactively do things to make myself better and my life better in different ways. I think it helps the situation overall and it helps her see that I'm trying to do positive things about it. I don't know. It's a work in progress.

Yeah,

[00:19:13] Adeel: no, that makes a lot of sense. And you said you had kids, right? Are they are they triggers for

[00:19:17] Kyle: you? Yeah. Or. So yeah, that's something that's been interesting. I've got a three-year-old and a six-year-old. They for the most part haven't been , but I've been very, scared of that potential.

I really don't want that to happen. But I actually have in the last few months, or year or so I've noticed with my older kid a few things starting to some mouthing mouth sounds. Or chewing sounds starting to bother me. And, I try to do this thing where it's I always feel like sometimes there's this switch in my brain that I can slip on or off if I'm not, when I'm at my best.

If I'm really de-stressed, like things are pretty okay. I'm much better at controlling this switch in my brain. But when I'm stressed, it's like I can, yeah. I can't control it at all. It's just I have to, I can't do it. But sometimes I just feel like I can like I, saved my son doing something with his mouth.

And I'm like, I know that could become a trigger of mine if I let it. And so I guess it's maybe about shifting my attention or distracting myself or something like that. I just try to be like, okay, I'm not gonna focus on that. I'm gonna think about these other, look at this other stuff, or whatever, until it goes away or maybe I'll leave the room or something like that.

Because I worry if I endure it. And then the. The intensity inside of myself builds and builds. And that's when it's just gonna Yeah. Explode and become a full blown trigger. So yeah I've started to notice a little bit with my older kid. I feel like it's probably inevitable that the longer I live with someone, the more just be a thing that I'm gonna have to deal with them.

It probably will continue to out cause I know that it's. Common that, you can accumulate more triggers over time, but I don't know. I'm trying not to let it happen as much as I can. I know. I

[00:20:52] Adeel: control, hopefully it doesn't I, my small theory is that most you, oh there have been people come on and their kids are a, are absolutely they're triggers.

It doesn't happen that often. So my little theory is just that your brain somehow which is assigning danger to all these other. In a, extreme way, somehow realizes that your own offspring are not dangerous to you. And maybe that's one reason why. They're not triggers. At least for me, this is kinda what I think about when I, my, my kids don't trigger me, but the moments when I feel like maybe that sound would normally trigger me on somebody else, I try to think of it.

I try to remind myself that, it's they're not a danger. And that's something that I think I try it doesn't always work, but I don't always remember to, but I try to. If, when I try when I can, I try to remind myself as I'm entering any situation that there might be a trigger that, hey, look around.

You're not about to get jumped by a random sound that lizard brain sense of warning you about danger is, should chill out a

[00:21:49] Kyle: bit. I dunno. I've heard you say that. And I've tried that some in previous podcasts. I've heard that where you saying to yourself, I'm not in danger.

And I've tried that here and there, and I do think that can help if I can go into a situation and mentally prepare myself ahead of time it's a lot better than just all of sudden getting ambushed and feeling trapped and not being able to get outta the situation.

If I go in knowing. I'm ready for it. I can handle a little better.

[00:22:13] Adeel: Do you go on road trips with your

[00:22:14] Kyle: family ? Yeah, we've done a few. Yeah, that's actually the being trapped in cars on occasion have been pretty bad. I've had a few pretty bad moments. With some different people in cars with food oh yeah.

And that actually I feel bad cuz like my wife has this thing she calls road snacks. She's so excited about road snacks, like part of the fun of going on a trip, like you get to do these random Yeah. Road snacks, chips, or, just like things you might not normally eat.

You get to indulge a little bit and have some fun. And then I'm like please can you put the peanuts away? . So

[00:22:49] Adeel: I feel like you're my white. You're like my white twin. I think we have so many things in common here

[00:22:54] Kyle: oh, man. One, one thing I wanted to say going back a little bit about the kids was I was I think sometimes maybe it has to do with the intention of the person making the sound.

If I think, if, I think they should know better it has a lot to do with the kind of, Building like resentment or something inside of myself. Yeah. And so with my kids, they're young, so it's like they, they don't know what's, socially appropriate or whatever. They're so it's a lot easier to be okay with sounds coming from them.

Whereas with, I guess with an adult, I would be like, you should know by now, like how can you make, be standing there making those sounds and not realize like how terrible that is, exactly. Sometimes I think it's not, there's definitely cases where the intention. Theory doesn't make sense, but it seems to contribute in a lot of situations, like with my dog, for example. My dog's mouth sounds, really annoy me and I'll have to kick her outta my room sometimes it's something when she's making sounds with her mouth my, my dog doesn't know better. So the intention thing doesn't work there, but it seems to make sense in some situations, at least.

[00:23:54] Adeel: Is your dog bark too? I'm curious why why you went out and got your own, your worst trigger to

[00:23:59] Kyle: live with you . I think I had this dog before the dog thing. Okay. Being an issue. She's pretty old, but so she will bark on occasion, not a lot. She mostly lives inside with us. When she's left outside, she does bark a lot of things.

And so I bring her in once she starts barking. And sometimes I, that can start to really get at me if it's going for too long. But again, that's a thing where I'm like, I'm a responsible dog owner. I know my dog's barking. I should bring them. And how dare these neighbors not do the same, yeah.

[00:24:30] Adeel: If I had a dog, I'd probably feel the same way. Does your dog I know some people who I've talked to some people who their dog kind of recognizes when they're going through a trigger so they can, they somehow can provide some comfort and it's almost like they're trying to calm that, calm the owner down.

Do you notice that? Does your dog give a shit at all that you're going through a trigger or realize it or that's completely.

[00:24:52] Kyle: No, I've never noticed that. Okay. Not that I can think of, but I, that did make me think like about when I'm clearly being triggered and my kids are around, I think for if they, I do think about how they are impacted or like I'm aware of Yeah.

How it may be affecting them when I'm like really overreacting to something I worry a little bit about what are they seeing and learning from me and. Am I responding in a way that they'll learn, bad habits or learn to respond to things in a more appropriate, do you wanna share some ways?

So I definitely,

[00:25:24] Adeel: do you wanna share some of the ways that you've reacted around them? I probably have very similar, I've had similar reactions too. Is it just a lot of glaring and throwing things? Maybe breaking your house and having to move

[00:25:35] Kyle: so well when it comes to eating stuff I feel like I'm at this point my wife is aware of what's happening.

I think my main strategy is just to leave, just to quietly, yeah. Get up and go in a different room or even just avoid eating around people in the first place. So I don't have a lot of like outbursts with like other. When my kids are around, but with the dogs my neighbor's dogs, that's really where I do have some outbursts sometimes that they see.

Probably the weirdest, the thing that they would probably think is the weirdest is the mimicking. When I one thing I do when the dogs are barking is I'll mimic the kind of tone and sound of the way they're bark sounds, and I'll do it like, pretty loud. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And that helps release.

Tension for whatever reason. But I think my kids are like, what are you doing? What, this is the sound you're making. And I'm like,

[00:26:23] Adeel: I, so they're doing their homework and they look out the window and dad's barking at them.

[00:26:28] Kyle: Yeah. I'm not like that defense barking at them, but, more just to myself, but just making that sound back, out loud and. , when they see me or hear me doing that, they're what are you doing? And I've just, they're just getting old enough where I'm starting to try to explain it to them just a little bit.

Kind of be like, I have this thing where certain dogs bother me and the dog barking really bothers me. And this, for whatever reason, this kind of helps me a little bit. I'm just doing the dog sound. I don't know. , I've told 'em little small things, not haven't gotten into it too deep with them, but, cause I feel like.

I don't know. I don't wanna it's like I don't wanna put in their head like that. This, have them become thinking Yeah, have them get it themselves, but at the same time, I want, I know they see me and I know they, they know what's going on. Kids are smart and can intuit things and feel things that are coming from their parents.

And so I wanna give 'em some explanation for this is something I'm struggling with and trying to deal with. I'm trying to balance that,

[00:27:24] Adeel: yeah. No, it's a very common thing that we struggle with. Like, how mu what is that ef, what effect could it have talking about it?

How much to talk about if to talk about. So yeah. Speaking of family you said that, you've, you found out what it was, had a name, but what, whatever, 70 years ago, have you gone back to your parents and given this information to them? and said, I haven't,

[00:27:47] Kyle: okay. At all.

Yeah. I've had some, somewhat of a strained relationship with them for a long time. , , we still see each other from time to time, holidays and stuff, and do our best to keep the relationship going. We definitely have very kind of political and philosophical.

Differences that have made things challenging in the last number of years. There's meso things and things with the way I grew up and then more recent political things. There's just been a lot of things that been there. A bunch of liberal Commies, , yeah. Been hard with them.

Yeah. But I'm actually in the process of so I've got a few different, mental. things that I'm working on. So I actually identify as an alcoholic and I'm part of a program for that. And I'm 10 months sober currently. And as part of that whole process, there's a whole process with that of working through this program of taking, doing the different steps to like, I don't know, turn things around, , yeah. Take bright to things that you may have, messed up in your life. Whether because they're drinking or not. So as part of all that process I'm trying to, reexamine, where have I heard other people or done things, I wish I hadn't in my life.

And so I'm really looking at my relationship with my parents and trying to see how to trying to actively repair that relationship at least as much as I can from, from my end. And make amends in whatever ways I can. And so anyway, so part of all this. One thing I really realized is I've had a big problem with honesty, with being open and honest with people.

It's the sphere of conflict thing of just following stuff inside of myself and telling people what they want to hear maybe. And so I'm trying to yeah, definitely. Yeah. People pleasing, that kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out how to be a little more real with my parents and more authentic and so I think as part of that process, Probably will eventually bring it up to them, but it's just hard cuz it's not something I'm used, I have a lifetime of not doing this kind of thing.

of not talking about this kind of stuff with them. Yeah, I'm waiting for the right moment and taking it one little step at a time. So

[00:29:47] Adeel: do they know about at least the alcohol recovery portion or do they know nothing? They know nothing. There's just they don't know about that.

Bring the grandkids over and that's that.

[00:29:56] Kyle: Yeah. For now, they don't know about that either. Yeah. I mean I, surely they have some some little clues that alcohol's been a little bit of an, I know of some moments here and there, there's been a little bit of a thing in the past, but I'm pretty good at I think it's a lot of alcoholics can be, they're pretty good at hiding it, yeah. Like I, I lived a pretty normal life from the surface level of I had the job in the house and, I wasn't like In the gutter or anything like that, but, yeah, so I don't know how much they really even knew and I haven't spoken to them about it yet. I'm trying to ease my way to that, trying to drop little hint here and there and broach things.

Good. Sure. A little bit to time until I can get to the harder things to talk about. I got, they're

[00:30:32] Adeel: listening to the podcast, so it probably won't give away the surprise here.

[00:30:36] Kyle: In some ways that would be easier. Oh, good. I just, I didn't have to tell 'em they found out. Yeah. I don't think they listened to the Meson podcast.

[00:30:42] Adeel: I'll look for them on Facebook and I'll give 'em a, give 'em some of them, the mp3, . And so yeah, that's, that raises the ne the obvious question do you find that the, do you think the alcohol usage was maybe a way you were self-medicating specifically for Miso? Or were there other things that, was it more of a

[00:30:56] Kyle: general thing?

It was definitely a general thing. I think it's something, it's just, Started drinking and realized, oh, this feels great. Just relieves all this anxiety and whatnot. It was my preferred tool for coping with the stresses of life for a long time. And it worked for a little while until it doesn't work and yeah, cuz there's certain becomes the problem, right?

[00:31:17] Adeel: In a, I think in different ways it's his own health problem, but also, , the it's, there's certain alcohols that are, I think more prone to turning on the rant nature of a personality. And so if you are, yeah, if you're in that state and you're triggered, it's even, the trigger, the fact that the trigger is even worse, the misson trigger were you finding that as

[00:31:37] Kyle: well?

I could see that. I definitely have, I can remember a time or two being like in my backyard at my old. and, having some drinks in me and the dogs barking and just yelling to myself. I never like went and yelled at my neighbor, did anything too. Too crazy. But just responding to myself in a way, it was definitely a more extreme response than I might have otherwise, if I were a little more soberly.

[00:32:02] Adeel: Yeah. Yeah. So is it fair to say that, outside of just outside of your family, you don't really talk about Ms like to other people? What about your friends now as an adult? Do you is this something you're like, Hey, I've got Ms. Please stop doing that.

Or, here's or do you just kind again people please and just try to get through the situ? .

[00:32:22] Kyle: So definitely mostly people pleasing or just quietly getting out of the situation. Yeah. I did recently post on Facebook that I have meson. Okay. Part, I think part of this whole few years now process of trying to I don't know, take my mental health stuff more seriously and just yeah, get better in, in different aspects of my life.

I don't know, I just. It was probably, honestly, partly because of this podcast. Like I've been listening to all these people's stories and different people's telling or not telling the friends and family and I don't know. I just felt like I need to say this. I need to let people know in some way.

And I, Facebook's an easy way to just put it out there and without having to like, have a one-on-one conversation, which might be a little more scary. So I did that. So I, I don't know who saw it or didn't see it, I got a couple responses from some people. Who, most just supportive.

So I did that I, and prior to knowing about like it being an actual condition and having a name and stuff , there was a friend who chew gum a lot and who I think, I guess saw me struggling and to tell I was, in different situations couldn't take it. And They were like dismissive just get over it kind of thing.

And at that time I was like this is my problem. And I didn't have the word misophonia to talk about it. I I guess I would've hoped that they would've maybe been a little more sympathetic, but they were just sorry, this is something I do, so whatever.

Yeah. That was a little frustrating. It's in a situation like that. Built and built over time of yes, every time I bring this up, people are like, just shut up. So then that's what I just started doing, was shutting up and keeping it to myself. Yeah.

[00:33:54] Adeel: It's I'm glad you're now being more vocal about it, but you're right.

That's what happens. It's we, our reflex is , even when we know what it is, sometimes it's like you probably, I'm probably gonna end up with more questions than I than this is actually gonna, more questions from the person or that dismissive reaction. So is this even worth advocating my, for myself?

I think it is worth keep to keep trying it's worth not just for yourself, but for the community at large. But yeah, a lot of us, we just. Our reflex is to just not say anything

[00:34:20] Kyle: and try to leave. Cuz in so many situations what the person is doing there's nothing wrong with it in a lot of ways, to most people. Most people chewing gum is the perfectly acceptable thing to do. So I just, I feel bad saying, telling someone you're hurting me by doing a very normal thing, breathing tearing your throat. Yeah. Yeah. I don't wanna make them feel bad.

So I, yeah, I guess it's a, you gotta find that balance of like, when do you need to speak up for yourself, for your own wellbeing? And when do you, when is it better to just step away quietly? Yeah. Not cause trouble. Did you

[00:34:53] Adeel: ever go see a maybe a professional or therapist about specifically miso or has it come up in

[00:34:58] Kyle: conversations?

Yeah, I've seen a few therapists. Never specifically about Meso, but I've mentioned it to all of them. The first time I saw a therapist I brought it up amongst all the other things that we talked about. And he was seemed maybe he's heard the term or something, I wasn't quite sure.

But he was he doesn't wanna sound dumb. He's yeah, oh yeah, I've heard of this. He. His main advice was just about like ideas around mindfulness and being able to direct your attention at other things and, being able control the way your brain processes stimuli and practicing that kind of mindfulness and stuff.

Which I guess that's a okay strategy. It doesn't seem to always work for me, but it's one nothing thing in the tool belt. I, the thing I always remember from him was he said, When you're outside and the dogs are barking, just listen to the, there are other sounds too, so like birds are chirping, so just listen to the birds chirping.

And so sometimes I try to do that and it's just listen, I'm trying so hard to focus on birds chirping, and it's just, these dogs like totally dominating sounds. Sometimes they're, we're

[00:35:58] Adeel: responding to the birds, so it's now you're in this conversation

[00:36:01] Kyle: here, . So then I now see a different therapist and brought it up to him.

Again, he was kinda like, oh, maybe I've heard of that. We talked about a ton of other things for a long time. But then more recently with these dogs at my new house really became a big issue for a while. So I talked to him more about it and I don't know. He didn't have any really, he hadn't really heard much about it or known much about it, but he just had his general kind of strategies of, I think mainly with him it's more just supportive of me taking.

steps, kind of practical steps in my life to do something about it. Constructive things versus feeling of yeah. Knowing you've done something, feeling a little empowered, maybe slightly making the situation a little better. That's been his advice, I've seen a psychiatrist, so I do take antidepressants and was taking some anti-anxiety meds for a while mentioned it to, to her, and.

I don't know, didn't seem to really register much with her. It was with her. It's more just here, take this medicine. Try the medicine. I don't know if they, I'm not really sure if they worked or not. How so I actually quit some of the medicines that I'm just on the one antidepressant now.

Oh. And then I did so I also had some kind of OCD tendencies. Okay. I'm not like full blown ocd, like maybe you hear sometimes. But there's definitely something that. That had throughout my life, and some that seem like they've gotten worse in more recent years. So I actually went and met with a therapist, one who specifically focuses on Ooc D and talked to him.

Cause I thought maybe the miso could connect to that in some way. It seems that kind of yeah, seems plausible. Yeah. Obsessive ways of your brain thinking seems similar in a way. He, but he was I don't, OCD. , miso doesn't necessarily fall under Ooc d I guess, technically or whatever.

But I don't know. He didn't really have that much to say about it either, so Yeah, I haven't had a ton of help. All those therapists known people I've talked to just didn't have a ton of experience with it. Yeah, that's

[00:37:53] Adeel: very not un not uncommon. I think it is coming out now that Miss Funny has its own separate thing.

I, I've been talking to some some of the top. researchers who will be on the podcast probably a little bit before this one goes live. Hopefully, yeah, hopefully soon that awareness will change hopefully within our lifetime and hopefully within this decade. But but yeah, it's interesting to hear the responses and also interesting to hear about the effects of the medication.

Some people are, obviously considered doing that and are wondering about that. And it sounds like in general it didn't really have much of an effect on. Especially the anti-anxiety stuff which would seem like it might be the, the closest to have a shot of having some effect on misophonia.

[00:38:31] Kyle: Yeah. Yeah, and I'm always a little wary too of, I'm wary of things that could be like habit forming, with my kind of addictive personality. I think maybe there's some medications some people could take that I just probably wouldn't want to try cause I don't wanna go down that road. Yeah.

Potential addiction. Understood. Understood.

[00:38:48] Adeel: Yeah. So maybe we're, yeah, we're heading to close, close to an hour, but maybe start this time to start wanting now, but I do want to I'm curious if you know any of the art or music that you're making now. Have you ever I don't know, written a miss, funny song, , or has miss Funny ever crept into your creativity?

[00:39:04] Kyle: So I've never really addressed it directly. But I know, so I draw comics autobiographical comics just little stories about my life and stuff. And mostly humorous, little anecdotes, but sometimes more kind of dealing with more serious stuff. And so there have been a, I know there's been a couple times where the dog's barking and me getting yelling or something was in there.

But I never really explained misophonia. It's like. , when you're crafting like a story narrative and stuff, there's, you want the story to work well. And so getting into the whole misophonia thing is like this whole chapter that I would have to, I really need to figure out how I could introduce it and then start to show examples of it in my life in a way that kind of would flow as a decent narrative, and I just haven't gotten to that point with that. There's other things too, like I've never directly addressed, like alcohol issues. I hinted these things here and there and it comes up in some of the stories, but I've never taken some of these things on. I feel like they almost need their own treatment.

A whole comic just about misophonia or just about alcoholism or whatever it might be. Which these, so these are ideas tumbling around in my head I'm interested in. It's mainly just an issue of not having the time between, I have a job and kids and stuff. So finding the time to do creative projects is challenging as it is. But maybe down the road when I do have a little more time an eventual goal, some kind of, maybe I could do a comic about misophonia or something like that. It's an idea in my head at this point.

[00:40:27] Adeel: Yeah. I'm thinking about, I'm working on. Two mu musically and narratively. So yeah, maybe we can bounce ideas for something at some point. There have been a lot of creative creative people on whether playwright, screen rides, musicians more and more recently. And I'm trying to get a little circle going, of people, and maybe we can just share, share ideas inspire each other a little bit.

Yeah. Are, is, are any of your comics published? Is there anything anywhere I can find them or the listeners can.

[00:40:52] Kyle: Get tok, so I self-published them. I have an Etsy okay. I'll give you that link. So I've got some there. Absolutely. And yeah, just like through social media they, I get 'em around to some stores.

There's a couple different comic shops around the country that have them in there. But yeah, probably Etsy is my, maybe the easiest place to find them. Okay. And I do have a. Coming out in an anthology soon, published by indie comics publisher called Birdcage Bottom Books. So that'll be one of my first actual kind of published by real publisher pieces.

That'll be out.

[00:41:22] Adeel: Oh, nice. Congrats. Okay. Yeah, we'll be looking out for that. And yeah, I'll have links to whatever Etsy and anything in the show notes. Anything else. Say, Kyle, this is, I feel like we can keep going, but I feel like I'm like I said, talking to my white reflection.

And yeah. Anything else you wanna share with the audience about

[00:41:38] Kyle: your experiences? . Yeah. One thing I wanted to mention just funny thing that I thought of when I was reflecting, preparing for the interview was two pop culture references that I think of sometimes that I think I wonder if relates to misophonia.

One is a Disney cartoon that I remember from being a kid. I think it was Donald Duck and it's this cartoon where he can't sleep cuz the sink is dripping and. Get the sink to stop dripping and he's just trying to turn it so hard and just up all night, getting angry and angry from this dripping sound.

Yeah. And I didn't really think about, when I saw it as a kid, I didn't make that connection, but now I'm like, I wonder if whoever wrote that had Memon . And then also there's this with my dog barking reminding me of before the dog barking stuff hard happened for me. Seeing an episode of Seinfeld where Elaine.

A dog barking issue. Have you heard that? Very familiar. Oh yeah. And I'm like, oh, did Elaine have Meson? I don't know. Yeah.

[00:42:32] Adeel: I bet Larry David has meson.

[00:42:36] Kyle: That makes sense, .

[00:42:38] Adeel: Oh yeah. Yeah. Always great to end on it on a Seinfeld reference. I'm always happy about that. Yeah, Kyle, thanks. Thanks for coming on.

This is great. Yeah, it was really nice to meet you and talk to you and. Yeah. Good luck with everything. Good luck with the house and hope you're are able to isolate that stand. And good luck with your recovery and all, and the other areas too. It sounds like you're taking some really positive steps and yeah.

Hope it all works out.

[00:43:00] Kyle: Thank you. And thanks for doing the podcast. It's really been It's great to listen to yeah, just to hear other people's stories and be able to relate. And then there's a community out there. There's stuff online and stuff, but really to me, I love listening to the podcast in general.

But I, it's just so easy to pop, my AirPods in and just listen to people's stories and it's just, it's really been a big help for me. So thanks for doing the podcast. Thank you, Kyle.

[00:43:23] Adeel: I hope to

[00:43:25] Kyle: hang out with you sometime in the future.

[00:43:28] Adeel: If you like this episode, don't forget to leave a quick review or just hit the five stars wherever you listen to this podcast.

Music is always is by Moby, and until next week, wish a new peace and quiet.