Martha - Sobriety and Misophonia: A Journey of Resilience

Adeel [0:00]: Welcome to the Misophonia Podcast. This is Season 4, Episode 19. My name is Adeel Ahmad, and I have Misophonia. This week, I have the pleasure of talking to Martha. As you'll hear, this conversation was a wild ride and lots of fun. Martha is a character with some great stories. If you've ever thought about running into the middle of a street to yell at a honking cab driver or snapping at other kids eating pizza, well, Martha can tell you all about how that might go. Also, lots of dating experiences discussed here as well. She's also very active on Instagram at MarthaRecoveringOutLoud. You see, Martha is not only in recovery, but also very active in supporting the sober community at large. You can find more information through her Instagram, which I will link to from our social media as well and in our show notes. You'll find Martha's posts, her recovery podcast, sober apparel, and a lot more. There's so much to get into in this episode. I really didn't want to cut off Martha's stories. Now, please buckle up for this lively conversation. With the one and only Martha. Why don't we jump into it? So they keep all these surprises or whatever for the show.

Martha [1:18]: I have kind of a crazy twist. So I'm in recovery. I'm over three years sober. And I found out I was drinking copious amounts to almost deal with my misophonia when I was out. Like I would have to get like drunk enough to like, just not give a shit because I was triggering constantly. Like people, when people do their straws in the ice, when like their drinks running out, like I would just sort of like punch them. And it just seemed like the more I drink, the more I could just tune out the fact that I was in like noise hell. But I've also like, yeah, I got a slow clap out of a bar once for going off on some like very loud, annoying people. because the rage kicked in and I was like, do you not realize there's other people here?

Adeel [2:15]: And then the bar clapped?

Martha [2:19]: They like slow clapped, yeah. No, at me yelling at them, they were like, finally. I was just like, oh my God. So I'm usually the person that calls out people, but then I realize they're bothering other people too, but I'm the only person that rages out and says something.

Adeel [2:37]: Right, right, right. Yeah.

Martha [2:39]: I had a friend, I called out, I called out this one guy and my friend's like, oh my God, you said what I've been wanting to say for 15 years. Like it was his friend of 15 years. And I was like, could you just chew like with your mouth closed? Like just for a second, like give it a shot.

Unknown Speaker [2:55]: Yeah.

Adeel [2:57]: And then completely swallow, swallow. So I don't have to hear it in your throat afterwards.

Martha [3:01]: Yeah. And like smacking.

Adeel [3:03]: Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. yeah no we'll get it we'll get it to all those um yeah this is gonna be it's gonna be fun i wanted to get started to say uh okay oh martha welcome to the podcast good to get to have you here thanks for having me great yeah it's gonna be fun um but yeah why don't you why don't you let us know kind of around where you are and uh what you do i know you have a podcast too

Martha [3:28]: Yeah, so I am on Instagram. I am Martha Recovering Out Loud. A lot of people know me from my work in the sober community and I'm a sober activist. And yeah, but also, you know, I have brought misophonia, like it's such a part of my life. that anybody who really knows me has been like thoroughly educated um you know it's just it's one of those things that so hard to explain it but then like occasionally somebody will be like oh my god i think i have that and sometimes i do and sometimes it's like no you just don't like bad table manners like they don't realize like this is more than just i don't like people with bad table manners it's like i have trouble going to cbs like i have trouble being in restaurants. It really cramps my dating style because I roll in looking like the most annoying date on the face of the earth because I'm like, not that table. That one's too close to the bar. That one looks like there's a speaker. I can't be anywhere near this speaker. I've been on dates where people are like, can obviously tell I'm not paying attention to them because I'm so distracted by the noises. um they're like you know pay attention to me and I'm like well first of all you're kind of an ass but second of all like that person over there is chewing super loud um and people don't understand that I can't tune it down like it becomes the whatever the trigger is it becomes my like sole focus and it's not for lack of not having focus or discipline or any of those things um And I was eating lunch with a friend the other day. And first thing I said when I sat down, I was like, God, this music's loud. Are you sure we're not by a speaker? And he's like, it's not that bad. I'm like, okay. And we start eating. And then I'm like, oh. I'm like, I might just have a panic attack. And he's like, this can't be that bad. And all of a sudden, like, this, like, 60s like acid trippy music came on that was a lot of like like and I'm like oh my god and then um he I go I have this thing called misophonia and I just like I can't I'm so sorry And I just wanted to run. I run out of places like a Muppet, like a Kermit the Frog run. I'm just like, ah! The most embarrassing is when you're at a store and you have an armful of stuff. And then all of a sudden you just drop your shit and run out the door. And you feel like everybody's looking at you. And the most embarrassing one... was I was with my son and we were at TJ Maxx and I don't know what they, so first of all, TJ Maxx is always triggering to me, but usually I go in, like I'm going to the home section and I'm leaving. But, um, my son and I actually had to shop for something. Like we were looking for a gift or something like that. So, you know, but like perusing stores is not my thing. Like I just can't, it's like getting underwear, go in, go out. And, uh, All of a sudden, they started making all these announcements over the loudspeaker. And I'm like, when did TJ Maxx get loudspeaker? And so there's all these things over that. And then like there's people and I start getting like that. People are too close to me and I'm sweating. And then one thing that's very embarrassing is I live in New York City. So I hear every. every language known to man. And I think, you know, some languages, especially like, oh, like Israeli, like any of the accents that have a lot to them.

Adeel [8:01]: Right. Right.

Martha [8:03]: I don't mean to be like my son swears. It's the most embarrassing thing because I look like a racist. Because certain languages have certain tones and sounds. Yeah.

Adeel [8:17]: And...

Martha [8:19]: I mean, it's just it's it's so involuntary that you almost don't realize like on your part when you're Yeah, your reaction. Yeah, absolutely Yeah, I don't get so part of this trigger ways like the loudspeakers going people are you know, there's lots of noises and then I go to turn a corner as I'm like racing out and I'm like trying, you know, I'm dropping my stuff. I'm racing out and I turn the corner and And I don't know what language it was. It had nothing to do with it being another language, but it was very throaty. And like, I just, my son goes, I audibly went, oh. and my son was mortified and just like really far away from me as i ran out and he was like mom do you know what you did and i was like there were so many noises he was like those people's faces and i'm like oh my god i didn't mean to like it's not like i don't like them it was just when you're in the middle of an episode it's just the noises seem to start stacking on top of each other And that was like the straw that broke me.

Adeel [9:37]: Yeah, no, there's a sharp onset and then there's a quick spiral. So it's very bizarre. And yeah, you almost lose control of your action.

Martha [9:50]: Right. My sister calls it the asshole disease because for the longest time, she just thought I was an asshole. And then my sister... For the short temper or yeah. Yeah. And she also thought I had a hatred for fat people because of the chewing. But I'm originally from Kentucky, which has a very ample population.

Adeel [10:19]: Exactly. An ample population of ample people. Right.

Martha [10:22]: Yeah. And so my family used to make me go to buffets all the time. because buffets are a big thing in the south so like your ponderosas and golden corrals and i mean it's just a mecca of chewers and they didn't actually see the red meats and the toothpicks yeah and they didn't understand they didn't understand like why I was just so agitated when you would take me to these places. Like, they came up with every reason except for I could possibly have an auditory sensitivity. And I'm like, you know, it's not that I dislike the people. It's not that I, you know, or my mom got mad at me once, like that I was being uppity because I didn't like buffets.

Adeel [11:14]: Oh, she's just being a snob?

Martha [11:16]: Yeah, like I was a food snob. Like I was too good for Golden Corral. And I'm like, no, just like everybody's walking around eating and the way they have the tables set up, it's not even like... It's too much.

Adeel [11:31]: Spit tight. What age was that then when you started to notice this stuff?

Martha [11:36]: So the usual... I had... I've realized through my research that the... My onset was about the same as everyone else's, probably around the age of 10 or so. And I also in my research found out that the first trigger is often a sibling. and okay yeah it's usually a family member um so yeah yes and i believe my and also misophonia is hereditary and i believe my dad had it as well because um and this is so sad but my sister chewed horribly and like to the point And this is why she was the first one to say it was the asshole disease, because every time she would start eating a snack or like eating around me, I would just be like, oh, leave the room. And also. dinner time like we did that whole family dinner thing and this is and like my best friend has misophonia as well so she has the exact same experience as like family dinner time was just horrific and then like if you ask to be excused you can't be you know my sister sadly you know she was the one that was triggering me so and um was it your parents too or Um, my, it wasn't my parents until later in life. Like, I don't know what it is with people, but as they get older, like just like, I don't know. I think my mom like gave up on chewing properly or something. I don't know what happened. And then she started sucking her teeth and I'm like, and got this obsession with toothpicks. And I was just like, God, I don't remember you being this bad. Like what happened? And then like, But my mom sucks, and I don't talk to her. But she would just be like, get over it. And it's like, you don't understand. I can't. Like, I just can't. And so, yeah, that was kind of like the initial onset was just my sister chewing. And my dad didn't like it either. And I mean, he would tell her she chewed like a cow, which this is the big problem. My sister was overweight. So it really wreaked havoc on her self-esteem because she thought me and my dad didn't like her eating because she was overweight. It had nothing to do with the weight. It had to do with the sound. So that's why I see that my family got this idea that I didn't like fat people.

Adeel [14:36]: Gotcha.

Martha [14:37]: And I was like, that's not it. It's that I don't like when people don't chew right. I don't care how big a person is. Like,

Adeel [14:45]: How were you maybe expressing it at that age? Were you just kind of like, you're running out? Were you able to use any words?

Martha [14:53]: I had no words to describe it at all. No words. And that is, so I know I'd mentioned to you in our messages that, you know, being a parent with a misophonia is crazy. It's crazy. just because so your son has so my son my son my oldest son has misophonia and um what's interesting is um both of my kids went through ages where i could not be near them when they ate because how do you correct a three-year-old on how to eat an apple like you can't and um then i started noticing that around like 10 like you know eight to ten my oldest was starting to get the same symptoms as me like the same things were triggering us and what was why i say it's a double-edged sword is i feel like my son is very fortunate to have a mom who understands he's not being rude He just can't handle the sound. And we do kind of have, we're like buddies in misophonia. Like both of us have Bose headphones. Both of us. Yeah. Our day, like our daily recaps will be like, Oh my God, I was on the train and somebody was eating out of a chip bag. And, um, you know, like in that aspect, but then I, you know, I felt for my youngest to, um, who for a period of time was kind of the um you know a trigger for both of us and you know i was able unlike with my sister who internalized it i was able to explain to my son that you know it's not you it's us like we're We're freaks. You're totally okay. Eat away, baby. Eat away. Does he still trigger you?

Adeel [17:10]: Your youngest?

Martha [17:12]: No. He has sensitivities now. But I think they have sensitivities because they... I don't think he has the sensitivities that I have. I think he's aware when something is going to trigger me. So what's became very difficult is within my house, we can control things. But if I try to do birthday parties and have, like, sleepovers, there's always, like, one kid.

Adeel [17:47]: Of course, there's always that one kid, yeah.

Martha [17:50]: Yeah. Oh my God.

Adeel [17:55]: Oh, you did?

Martha [17:56]: I snapped at a kid. Like I, well, I snapped at more than one kid. I'm just like, and like run out of the room. Like I just, but this one kid was just like going to town on some pizza. And, um, you know, I, I said something, I guess it was mean, but I was just like, slow down. I'm like, the pizza's not going anywhere. like i got eight pizzas for like four kids like you're good yeah like no this kid was being mad obnoxious like he and then um i have so i don't know so i do have a disclaimer that um my kids and i both give to other kids And we explain it to them before anybody starts to eat. And we will make sure that everybody who's present is aware that I'm not mad at them. But if I ask them to stop doing something, it's because sound hurts me. That's how we describe it to kids, is we'll be like, sound hurts me. and then uh but what's the rudest thing anyone can do and kids seem to think it's very funny is i'll be like you can't chew like that like but i'll like start to lose words and my kids will notice and my kids will correct the kid like my kids do it for me they'll be like no you can't do that like my mom's gonna like lose it and the kiddo and when they do that mocking you kind of thing where they're like what you don't like this and you're like oh my god like that's not funny and that's not nice like that's like pinching me would you pinch me and they'd be like no i'm like well okay you're like don't eat like a cow like i don't know what to tell you um but i had a but yeah like with with caves like They said, you know, when they were little, we had a setup where we converted. We had a two bedroom that we converted into. the main living space we had the dining a dining table and like a love seat and the kids would eat at the dining table and i would eat at the loves i would eat at the love seat facing away from them but like close enough that if anybody started choking or something i could help them right that's the only way you'll you'll interact while they're eating Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And when I, when I try to explain to people, uh, I've never sat down for a dinner with my children. They're like, how? And I'm like, it's just our family. Like I can't do it. So, you know, and, um, even when We'd go out to eat. There's this sushi place we used to eat at often. It was by the kids' school, so we'd go there after school. And they would try to give us a four-top, and I'd be like, I need a six-top. Because I would put the kids at the end of the six-top, and I would sit by myself. so you know i guess it kind of looked like i was a neglectful parent who didn't want to spend time with my children but i honestly just could not sit next to my kids and it sucked for a very long time it sucked a lot uh you know i didn't like the looks from people i did um it took a minute for my kids to understand um you know now they're 13 and 17 and um The one thing that makes me, and I also have CPTSD. So on top of misophonia triggers, I have lots of anxiety triggers. But I can't stand when people try to make a correlation between my misophonia and my CPTSD. They are in no way correlated because I had the misophonia long before the events that caused my CPTSD.

Adeel [22:47]: Gotcha. Okay.

Martha [22:49]: Okay. And they're totally different triggers. Cause a trauma trigger, like seeing someone, so I'm just, I'm a, I'm a rape survivor and domestic violence survivor. So seeing someone who, or being in a situation that triggers my trauma responses is almost more manageable than my misophonia triggers. My misophonia triggers are the ones that send me into like level 10 rage and shaking and lose words and like a total shutdown. Like I feel like those trigger. So a misophonia trigger is a quick onset, quick spiral. And if it's more of a trauma trigger, it's going to stay with me all day. And it could lead into the week and it would be more of an emotional response than a physiological response. And that's the part I have a hard time explaining to people is that the Mesa phony is a physiological response.

Adeel [24:02]: Right.

Martha [24:03]: And it feels like I'm short circuiting. Like, I just like don't feel like I'm not myself anymore. I'm this person I absolutely can't stand. Like I wouldn't want to be around me. And like when I was out in the world dating a lot, there was one guy told me I should list it on my dating profile because apparently my misophonia made the date really bad. But I also did not know he had a cleft palate. So maybe he should put that on his dating profile.

Adeel [24:36]: Yep, there you go. If you're listening and you have... That's interesting. We should do a music video where we have all these check boxes too. Yeah, favorite foods.

Martha [24:48]: You're telling me that I can't be sensitive to the fact that you can't breathe through your nose and eat at the same time and you didn't tell me that that's a thing? You know... dude we're both screwed up like just deal like don't make me don't put the onus on me because your mouth's messed up like my brain's messed up like right okay um but yeah i'm just part of me though is like I'm glad no one ever tried the immersion therapy, but the fact that people still bring it up, I'm like, Google. I'll just look at them and be like, Google.

Adeel [25:32]: Yeah, exactly.

Martha [25:33]: If you put me in a room listening to someone eat chips for like two hours, I would off my head. Like, please don't. My whole life's been exposure therapy and I'm 36 years old and I have to wear noise-canceling headphones all the time. This is one thing I will say about people are like, how do you live in New York City? Because you're like, that makes no sense to people. And it's like, because there's so much noise, it turns into white noise. So when you're hearing cars all the time, it's cars. What I can't stand is honking. That drives me up the wall.

Adeel [26:25]: That pierces the background, right.

Martha [26:28]: Oh my God. So, um, I can just give you a whole list of very embarrassing, but yet amazingly funny stories. I would love to.

Adeel [26:36]: Yeah.

Martha [26:37]: Oh my God. Okay. So there's this restaurant down the street from me and, um, me and ex-boyfriend, like we used to go there once, twice a week. It was like, you know, Mexican food. Yeah. They had, it was nice. And they had outdoor dining and open, you know, when they opened the doors, um, and And, you know, we're just enjoying the nice weather. And the traffic got backed up. And there's just this cab driver just laying on his horn. Which, the thing is, like... technically you can get fined for that in new york um so you know they they did this whole no noise pollution thing so they're supposed to be fine yeah um usually it doesn't it doesn't happen as much as like i guess movies make it seem like it happens but we're sitting there trying to eat and traffic's backed up but the thing is traffic's always backed up on the street like if you're gonna go down the street like just know you know And it happens. So anyway, this dude's laying on the horn and laying on the horn and I'm sitting there shaking. And my boyfriend, we had been together, you know, we were together like two years. So he knew how to handle it. And like, we could laugh about it afterwards. Like, those are my favorite people who like get it and then can just like, once the trigger's over, like just laugh about the absurdity of it. You know, not just stare at you like you're a freak.

Adeel [28:15]: Humor is a coping mechanism for misophonies to come up a lot. Yeah.

Martha [28:19]: Yeah. So I'm sitting there, this dude's laying on the horn. And I finally, I run out into the street and start screaming at the cab. I was like, honking's not going to make the fucking traffic move. It's not going anywhere. Stop honking. And I just like, I scream at cars. Like, it's going to do something. But I just could not say anything. And I'm like, That's not going to work. And everybody around me was just like, yeah, go tell them. I've become like the noise police. I'm like a noise vigilante out here. Just like, for the love of God. And then like, same block, bar across the street. I had went into the bar earlier. I'd had a business meeting. And while we're having this business meeting, three guys come in and they're just laughing and they're hit like smashing the bar. Oh, my God. oh my why does anybody need to smack the bar i've never understood this behavior it reminds me of monkeys like when like chimps or you're like yeah and like banging on stuff but it was three dudes like kind of having like a who can slam their drink and bang the bar and scream the loudest i guess And the bar staff knew about my misophonia because it was like my neighborhood haunt. It was right across the street from me. So they totally knew like what, you know, my triggers. And I'm like shaking. I'm like. You know, this business meeting, it needed to go on longer, but I was like, I got, I got, I was like, we can pick this up later. It's like a real estate deal. I'm like, you know, I'll just do it. We can finish this up in an email. I gotta get, I gotta get out of here because I'm going to kill those guys. And like the, the waitress was like, Oh, I was the Irish waitress. She's like, they've been in here like, you know, two hours. I'm like, how have you not killed them? So I leave, I go back up to my apartment. This is when I was like dating. And I, I did like first, you know, first just meet and greet with a guy, you know, and I go over to the bar to meet this guy for a beer. And, uh, these same dudes are still there and now they're louder and there's a whole bar of people. And I can just tell everybody's fed up. The bartender, I knew him. I'm like, what the fuck, man? Go tell them to calm down. And he's like, I can't. And every time they smack that bar, I can feel it all the way around, right? It's like a horseshoe. I finally, I stand up and I go... You have been this fucking loud since noon. Just shut the fuck up. And I'm like standing up screaming at them. I'm like, have you not realized that you've annoyed every single person in this restaurant? And they were like, oh, my God. Oh, and then one of the guys tried to mouth off and his friend pulled him out. And the other guy is like very loud. Like, we're sorry. We're sorry. And I was like, just shut up. And everybody starts clapping. They're like, somebody had to do it. And I'm like, why is it always me? Why do I have to snap? Like, can't somebody else snap for once? And uh, yeah, but I feel like an old person Because i'm all about them early bird specials Like please take me out to eat at six Like guys are like you want to go you want to eat at six i'm a guest and then like And they think it's and i'm sober now so they think it's because i'm sober like oh you can't stay out late i'm like No, I stay out till three. I just can't eat at a busy restaurant. Right. Yeah. Outdoor dining during the pandemic. Yeah. Oh, my God. That was a nightmare. Like, I want to eat and listen to traffic noises, which also... Why do people with shitty Hondas take their spoilers off or whatever? I don't understand that.

Adeel [33:08]: Their mufflers, maybe?

Martha [33:10]: Yeah, yeah. They take their mufflers off. You drive a shitty Honda. Why do you have to make it loud? I don't understand that. Also, so one of the reasons I brought up New York City is that what happened during the pandemic and one of the reasons I invested in the $400 special Bose super noise-canceling headphones was that as the city emptied out with the pandemic, all that white noise of the bustle was gone. So normally, like I said, you have all the city noises and they blend into one white noise. You know, maybe I'll notice someone talking kind of louder on the street or something. But I never really had street issues until the pandemic. And so we had less traffic. We had less people on the street. We literally had... You know, the streets were deserted, but then that meant every motorcycle that went by, every person speaking loudly, it was just amplified to me. And now, like I was referencing the other day when I was having lunch with my friend and I'm like, you know, oh my God, this music. I had to put my headphones on. while having lunch with a friend so that i could complete the lunch but the thing is the volume was probably set at the regular volume but restaurants are only at 25 capacity so now i don't even have the white noise of the restaurant bustle so this like void of it's becoming very annoying um

Adeel [35:12]: Yeah, we're able to now look back at the pandemic and it's like, you know, early on, maybe it seemed there were some pluses. Well, there are still some pluses of like being able to avoid people easily and have an excuse. But there have been issues, though, with, you know, like like you just described. And also just being the same people all the time, obviously being, you know, having that kind of claustrophobic. I guess.

Martha [35:40]: Yeah. So your anxiety is already up a bit. Like I've got this new thing where I don't know how my son can run the faucet in the kitchen 27 times in a row. Like, and he wears noise canceling headphones because he has misophonia too. So he doesn't realize how loud the frigging water is. And he'll just say like, and I'm just like the water. Yeah. So it's kind of a mess. uh but one of the things that's been driving us insane is since the streets in new york have been emptier people have found it and i live really close to times square so like just for reference i can hear the like new year's rockin eve from my apartment okay so on the weekend, all the motorcycle groups come to ride through, uh, time square. Cause it's cool and it's fun and it's wide open now. Right. Motorcycles are really, really loud. And so I can hear the revving and the background. So I can't, um, yeah. And I hear it. I mean, I'm, you know, I'm a super high floor and I can hear it. And I'm just like, this is, insanity um the other thing that i'm very concerned about with um coming out of the pandemic is the fact that i i feel like i maybe i had a tolerance that i built up and i feel like that tolerant i'm scared that tolerance is gone yes right right because my reactions my reactions when i have been out like with the incident i was describing at tj mac that was pretty bad that was probably one of the worst episodes i've had in a very very long time and I don't know if it really is that TJ Maxx got more annoying or that I just hadn't been anywhere in a very long time.

Adeel [37:58]: Yeah, that's interesting. We'll know more, I guess, as we start to come out of this.

Martha [38:04]: Right. And they said that the lack of white noise that comes with crowds, you know, got scary to me.

Adeel [38:20]: I think a lot of that will come back, though. I mean, it might not be right away.

Martha [38:25]: yeah but right now while we're at while we're at limited capacities yeah like i i froze my gym membership and was just like i can't oh yeah because i i can normally drown out someone breathing heavy around me because there's other people working out and the sound of the treadmills and the sound but when you know i mean there's only like 10 people working out i hear every dumbbell drop i hear every grunt i'm like yeah it's the grunts and the coughs for me yeah yeah but have you got to the point to where even if you So, you know how misophonia can go into, is it called kinesophonia, where repetitive motions? I get repetitive motions cause the same reaction.

Adeel [39:24]: Yeah, so mesokinesia, I think, I mean, at least I've been using it in terms of, like, just visual triggers, whether it's motion or watching, you know, seeing somebody eat across... Oh, if something's in my... Yes, when eating across, eating poorly.

Martha [39:39]: That's why at a restaurant, I always want to phase another way. But if I'm eating... And I don't even think my current boyfriend realizes he triggers me because I never look at him when he eats. And he hasn't realized it yet.

Adeel [40:01]: It's kind of easier to avoid the visual triggers, at least.

Martha [40:05]: Yeah, I just kind of tend to look down a lot when he eats. But I pointed it out to him and he was like, oh, I'm sorry, but there's a thing called Um, with men who work in finance, they tend to not be able to leave their desk while the market's open and they eat very, they get used to eating very quickly.

Adeel [40:29]: Uh-huh. Yeah. I think you mentioned that in our messages.

Martha [40:32]: And by them, by themselves at their desk. So, um, when they do go out to eat or they're eating at home, they don't realize what they're doing. I actually had a long-term boyfriend that it became a real issue when his parents would visit. And my misophonia led his parents to believe I was a total bitch and hated them because I could not eat with them. Yeah.

Adeel [41:08]: But did you ever, did you, were you able to explain it at that point? And did they not believe you?

Martha [41:14]: He tried, I tried, he, well, they, so, um, also, um, they were British and there was a lot of things about me that they didn't get. Um, I was too forward for them. I was too, you know, and then on top of, um, some like social you know like just um oh cultural differences on top of the cultural differences i am you know unable to eat dinner with them so now it's like oh she super hates us and i'm like oh god i don't hate you guys but his dad ain't poorly in america We were at the table and I was just, I was trying to deal with the kids and then the dad chewing. And I just, I slammed my fork down. I didn't even realize I did it. And I throw my hands up and just like ran from the table. And, and I'm in the other room just like, you know, we were talking marriage. We're raising kids here. These people are going to be a part of my life forever. And I'm like, Flipping out and for to them is no reason mm-hmm and you know, I mean I have to admit like being a single parent and also the fact that I don't really I My father passed away and I don't speak to my mother like any of my family really I single parenting with my two kids is probably my best coping mechanism because i don't have to worry about this stuff and it sounds terrible but i only like to date people who like don't really have any family because i am so traumatized

Adeel [43:14]: It's scary. You don't like to date people who have kind of an active, large family because you just want to focus on your own? Because you've had such bad experiences with family?

Martha [43:28]: I've had such bad experiences with having to have them visit, have dinners with them, go to large gatherings, go to, you know, just explaining myself. And then my... My disease has progressed to the point that I'm having, if I see repetitive motion in my peripheral, I can't take it. If I'm in a restaurant and somebody's talking with their arms too much, that's too much for me. Ooh, I didn't get to tell you the story about the time I threw bread.

Adeel [44:10]: Oh, let's hear it.

Martha [44:11]: Um, yeah, this is a good one. Um, so, uh, me and my ex, we went to, and this is the one that really handled it well and totally got it. He thought it was like hilarious. He was the one that was there when I was screaming at cabs, um, which I did that with my son and my son's like, Oh my God, I'm so embarrassed, which I regularly embarrass my children. But and i i feel bad in the parenting sense in that my oldest like literally explained to me one day how he helps walk me around like he's like a guide dog he can see a trigger coming from a mile away and will like have me switch sides of the street or he'll unexpectedly be like why don't we go over here and i'm like what what so anyway i was at this restaurant and uh I was so hungry. I'm so hungry. So I'm already hangry. We go and we order the food and it's taking forever. And then it turns out there was a speaker next to me. It was a Turkish restaurant. So if you're familiar with Turkish music, it's not exactly pleasing to someone who doesn't like high-pitched noises. Atari kind of sound in music, I guess. I don't know. So anyway, I'm sitting there. All of a sudden, they turn the music on. And it's just like, ding, ding, ding. And I'm like, oh, my God. And my boyfriend's laughing at this point because he knows I'm about to lose it. And I'm just like, you're such a jerk, right? And I'm like, why don't we have any bread? Like, where's the bread? We're supposed to have bread. And so I'm losing words now at this point. He can tell this is getting bad. I don't know. Do you lose words? Like, you get to the point you just can't even explain what's going on?

Adeel [46:14]: Yeah, well, you know what happens? I mean, your concentration, like you said, your mind shuts down. Your concentration is gone. So, yeah, your faculty over words, yeah, start to disappear.

Martha [46:25]: Yeah, I turn into toddler speak. I'm just like, voice down, blah, blah. You know, and you're like... And then somebody tells you to calm down. You're like, oh, I'm going to kill you now. So anyway, they bring his bread and I look at the bread and the bread is burnt. You can't even eat it. And I look at him and I go, and then I just, I just frigging did it. I threw the whole frigging bread basket.

Adeel [46:57]: At the speakers? At the waiter? At your boyfriend? Just chucked it.

Martha [47:03]: Fuck it. Just chucked a whole bread basket. And he just started dying. He was laughing so loud. And then, like, I'm like, I gotta get out of here. It's just coming out like that, you know?

Adeel [47:20]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is like a Curb Your Enthusiasm episode.

Martha [47:24]: Yeah, I'm just like... And finally, he was just like... I ran. I ran. I lived a block away. I ran, and he's laughing and, like, leaving some money on the table for him. He's like, you know, stop making the food. I'm out, like, pacing and, like, jogging in place. I'm like, where am I going? And then he comes out laughing, and he's like, I would have done it, too. I'm like, oh, my God. Because he was, like, a very mild-mannered guy, and here I am yelling at cats, throwing bread baskets, like... But, um... Yeah, it worked out, though, because, um... He figured it out. He figured out when to take me out to eat and worked around it and stuff like that. So I was kind of grateful for that. I was like, cool. And I think every misophonia person needs people who get it. Because, you know, like I said... Emotional guide dogs. Yes. And I do... For there for a bit, like when I heard my oldest explain to my son, like how to walk me down the street, I was like, Oh my God. And I realized like, well, I mean, it could be worse. I mean, he's not, I'm not an invalid, like he's not taking care of like a terminally ill mother. He's just making sure I don't get scared of noises. Um, So that's good. But he has like one friend that he makes sure not to have around me because this kid... Pizza boy? No, this is a different kid. So this kid, I'm pretty sure he's on the spectrum, but he has no filter. And he also like just... So he had this frosty cup, like this mini frosty cup. and um he wasn't using a spoon he was like slurping it out and then he's like trying to dump it in his mouth he's like you know tongue in the out of this thing and i'm like i'm sitting there i'm like oh my god i'm with julian make him stop make him stop and then i looked at him i said for the love of god throw this thing away and i just go also i said you can't do those things around me and i'm just raging on this kid and he goes what i can't go like this and i'm like oh my god you're 17 years old like i can get mad at you you're 17 like you're not five you know and i was like i'll beat you like your mama like um but yeah so there there's there's certain people my kids won't bring around me um You know, like I said, I don't do family dinners. I don't, you know, I don't even have a dining table, which, I mean, it's very common in New York, but I had a table at one point and, like, nobody used it. Like, we all, none of us can watch each other eat. So, you know, whatever. Right. One thing, but like I was telling, we spoke about this for the podcast. Like I said, I'm over three years sober. Yeah. And one of the things that I realized because I was a bar fly, I was a bar drinker. I wasn't really a... at home drinker but if I was at the bar and I was getting triggered or people were starting to get loud or like the worst thing was when I would show up and I was everybody was already three or four drinks in and I wasn't there yet so everybody's being loud and obnoxious and I'm not there yet myself I would just like

Adeel [51:40]: Start downing them.

Martha [51:41]: Drink real downing them like super fast so I could get through it. So then another thing that happened though was once I got sober, there were people I had to stop hanging out with because I noticed like a friend of mine, she was so loud. Like, you know, we went... Cause there was a point where I was trying moderation. I was like, okay, I'm just going to have, because every alcoholic tries moderation at some point. And I'm like, I'm just going to have a beer or two and go home. But she starts triggering me and she's so loud. And I went to the bathroom and I could hear her and I'm like, Oh my God. And I sat down, I started doing shots and I'm like, this isn't going to work for me. So, um, Yeah, I just, you know, I quit drinking altogether, but I realized that quelling my misophonia was contributing to me drinking so much. I mean, I am definitely an alcoholic. Definitely an alcoholic.

Adeel [52:54]: No, even, even, even, yeah.

Martha [53:00]: yeah the misophonia did not help my drinking habits because yeah it's bars are loud noisy places and like that people doing their straw in their eyes it just makes me want to stab them why why are you playing with your drink like i'll just look at him and be like what are you like four stop playing with your food like Also, I have one other person in my life that is just the biggest trigger ever is my stepdad. Oh, my God. So he is hard of hearing. And he had a lot of inner ear issues. so i think it affected his chewing as well so my mom goes when i'm like you know 13 14 years old and basically starts dating the biggest trigger load ever and one of his things is he's one of those people that has to get every bite off his plate oh yeah so he's like tap tap tap scrape scrape scrape right utensils people don't get how great in utensils are to me that's the other restaurant thing that's why i'm like don't see me near the bar but also don't seat me near anybody and also don't seat me near a speaker like what you want me to eat in the bathroom like And I've been a server and I've been a hostess and I understand they have sections. So they don't really like when you're like, see that flower table over there? I want that one because it screws up the rotation for the rest of the night. And I'm like, that's just how I roll, man. I need to pretend like I'm super famous.

Adeel [55:10]: Yeah. Well, you keep yelling at Cavs. You'll be famous in New York at some point. Oh, yeah. You might already be.

Martha [55:19]: There's probably a video.

Adeel [55:21]: There's an Instagram of you, I guess. Probably. That's interesting.

Martha [55:29]: Karen gets mad at Cavs.

Adeel [55:34]: um so yeah i guess um so you've been i'm curious have you ever gone see a professional uh you know you're an advocate obviously with your um with your recovery work i'm curious if if you've seen therapists or any kind of professional maybe on the miso side no because i just don't i just don't think there's anything i can do other than live with it Yeah, you're not wrong. There's no cure. That's for sure. That's kind of why we're all talking about it.

Martha [56:05]: So why try? I mean, all I can do is try to manage. And I'm very lucky that I have a best friend who has it too because I can call her with the weirdest things. Did you know deaf people are some of the loudest people to be around?

Adeel [56:31]: Well, they can't hear themselves, so yeah.

Martha [56:34]: No, when they sign, there's a lot of hand-hitting.

Adeel [56:40]: Right.

Martha [56:42]: And I was in Starbucks next to two deaf people, and they were signing, and it was just like hands hitting hands and mouth noises. And I was like, oh, my God. Like, because I used to joke, I was like, maybe I just need to hang out with, like, deaf people or something. And then I was like, no, I don't. And I call my best friend, my best friend, whose son is blind. So she, because her son's blind, she, and she's an advocate herself in the, you know, disability community and all this stuff. She and she was like oh no martha you can't be you can't be around people who sign they're so loud and she was telling me about how she had to have a meeting with a lawyer that was deaf and was signing and she was trying to get through this meeting and process what they were telling our But it was so bad because of the sounds and then the Kinesa, the Miss Kinesa part. Yeah, because if you think about it, the motion of the sign language was triggering. And that's what was triggering me as well. It wasn't just that their hands were smacking together. It was I could see their hands in my peripheral.

Adeel [58:15]: Right.

Martha [58:16]: and then i felt like a horrible person i think that's the part that's so crappy is like how i and you know how he's saying like i don't mind that people speak another language why do i care but it triggers me i don't and it's not just the particular language there's certain dialects of english or like accents In English, I get on my freaking nerves. Like, it's tonal for me. It's very tonal. Gotcha.

Adeel [58:56]: Yeah, yeah.

Martha [58:57]: And having this thing that makes it... Like I said, I work with so many different kinds of people. And I advocate for so many different kinds of people. And I am an ally. And I'm an empathetic person. And I have this one thing that makes me... And maybe it's not super pronounced to other people. Maybe they don't notice as much as I notice. But just the mere thought that...

Adeel [59:31]: somebody might think i don't like them because they speak another language like that hurts that that makes me feel like a bad person well there is a lot of that shame and guilt that we that hangs with us as we've kind of gone through life and have seen you know we don't want to think about it but we can tell that other people notice our reactions and it's like oh it's kind of heartbreaking why

Martha [59:58]: like when my son was like did you realize you audibly like went like oh hello when those people talked and i'm like oh i think they were speaking french for some reason french they get throaty too yeah french gets me french gets me i don't yeah french and hebrew are kind of the two that there's a lot i think it's just because it's new york i hear them a lot so um yeah those are the two languages that i just kind of like i better leave and that just feels terrible like that just feels really really bad well yeah you can leave tactfully right yeah and i try to leave before i get to the point where i'm like slinging my purse and like shaking and you know i i try to i do my best to hit it head on but um and it's always fun when a new trigger emerges and you find there's a new place you can't go to anymore that's yeah definitely definitely definitely definitely multiply as we've all kind of gotten older that's the part that baffles me is how I don't know if you would use the term degenerative. Is something degenerating? I don't understand the progressiveness of it. I just don't understand the progressiveness.

Adeel [61:36]: Yeah, that's a mystery. I try not to think of it as degenerative. I try to think of it as something multiplying. Maybe we're becoming more sensitive in almost a... I don't know, not a good way, but maybe something working a little too much.

Martha [61:49]: I have a hard time taking phone calls. Phone calls are very difficult for me. And I reference dating a lot because like, honestly, it really screwed up dating for me. I mean, there have been relationships I had. It's like didn't make it past three dates that probably could have been great. But I just knew I couldn't take it. I had guys keep trying. And I'm like, but you always order soup. Stop ordering soup. I just told a man what he can and can't eat. Yeah, that's hot. Everybody wants a partner that scolds them. I heard that's what men are into. Like, just be bitchy. Yeah. So right now, I think the only reason my current relationship has made it to a year and a half is we live very separate lives.

Adeel [62:59]: Oh, so you don't live together. You're with your sons. Yeah. Yeah.

Martha [63:07]: I don't know. Maybe this bubble living is at some point I'm going to have to But I feel like I've managed around it. Like I have my blog and I also, I'm a dog walker, dog sitter. I take care of pets. So I think. You know, I found way I found work around like dogs don't trigger me and I can walk a dog with noise canceling headphones on. You know, it was huge to my sobriety to not have these situations like I was describing where I was at. You know, I had a client. I was helping a client as a personal assistant. I was helping a client find an apartment. You know, the whole drinks thing. You know, I think I'm better off dealing with pets. And that's fine. And I'm making a living with it. And I do public speaking. And so that's really, you know, public speaking, one-sided. I don't really hear the audience. So that's good.

Adeel [64:24]: Sometimes they do cough. You know, that's one thing about being up front.

Martha [64:31]: I feel like I'm usually nervous enough about the speaking that I'm like kind of laser focused. But I think that's when it comes down to the only the visual cues are a little tough with public speaking. With my visual things happening. Right. I just, I try not to think about the progressive part because I just picture me being old and alone. And, you know, I'm like, if it keeps multiplying at this rate, like, I will never leave my house by 65.

Adeel [65:16]: Yeah, that is one fear, I guess, that we're so triggered that we...

Martha [65:26]: this is um and see i don't know how so this is the thing that's upsetting with me is um like with my son i i have to have so i have one prescription i have to present my id to pick up or you have to present a id and uh my children are old enough to get it so most of my prescriptions i can send my son to pick up but if i go to the pharmacy i can't handle cvs i don't know what it is but if it's every one of my noises is there i guess because you tend to have sick people there So there's always someone coughing. There's always somebody sniffing. But I went into CBS one night and there was a guy watching an NFL, a homeless guy on a scooter, on like a hover round, eating chicken out of a plastic sack, watching an NBA game. with no headphones as loud as he could right by the pharmacy stand that is every noise i hate rolled into one and i didn't have words i basically like threw my id down and my son had to finish the transaction for me and get me out of the house or get me out of the cvs and i was like squeezing his hand walking down the street and that has shaped a lot recently like i ran out of medication and he was at his girlfriend's house and i had to wait two days for him to get back And I was like, I can't go there alone. And that's scary. You know, being a grown woman that needs an escort to go places.

Adeel [67:42]: Yeah. Wow.

Martha [67:44]: Yeah.

Adeel [67:46]: Well, you can get them delivered at least. Well, maybe that's the one good thing out of all this, you know, pandemic BS. Yeah. The increase in delivery. Yeah. But again, that keeps us at home. So, yeah.

Martha [68:01]: Yeah. It's one of the things with... With recovery is that they tell you, you know, get used to being alone, you know, get used to alone time. Yeah. Yeah. Get used to being, you know, you know, and everybody tells you to meditate and get used to your own company. I'm like, I've been doing that forever. I'm good. like that's the one part like when when i'm counseling people about sobriety um and they bring up that um they bring up the like you know i don't want to be alone thing i'm like that's like my dream like i can't i'm sorry it can't relate to you on that fact like you know

Adeel [68:55]: It's the interesting dichotomy. We don't, we're afraid to be alone, but we love to be alone. And so it's like how that balance is found is how it was kind of our, our challenge, I guess.

Martha [69:07]: Exactly. Exactly. I mean, I mean, it's so, and I guess not until, you know, I was thinking about, you know, the podcast and everything. And I was like, what are you trying to picture? my life without misophonia and like i definitely feel like i would have a much different life and um because i'm a super outgoing person and i do feel like i have this like great personality and you know i'm 36 and i'm you know not married and dating's a nightmare and you know I have this boyfriend that I can't even look at him when he eats and you know I feel like you know and when you talk about your own personal worth like I know my worth I'm not like somebody with a bad self esteem or anything like that um yeah but it It hurts. It hurts to think, you know, and with it being like an invisible, you know, people talk about visible and invisible disabilities and things like that. You know, people with chronic pain disorders are like, you know, you can't always tell I'm hurting. And that's how I feel about misophonia is that You know, you're not going to look at me and think that there's something so abnormal about me that I have to change. And they're just things that I've changed about my life. I just do them. But as they started to accumulate and add up with age, and I don't know if it is common, you know, between like 35 and 40 to kind of be like where is this headed because the start age is the same right like it's kind of like people have the same kind of onset right and that it's around puberty sort of so i'm wondering if it's a very common retrospective and to have at my age. Like, what would my life be like if I could socialize normally or, you know, not scare off dates.

Adeel [71:54]: Well, I mean, this is around that middle-aged time where there's a lot of retrospect happening, you know, regardless. um from what i've heard of people talking looking back they're generally i mean generally satisfied with how they've uh yeah a lot of people say they're a little bit more maybe introverted but you know usually in a good way

Martha [72:17]: and and yeah my sister found an amazing husband who loves her to death and does everything for and yeah like my sister is this amazing husband that would do anything for her and she already she told me she was like i already told him all about your misophonia and that we knew if he might trigger you and not to get offended you know it's like what are you talking about he's a cuss lip and cuss palate and has had all these surgeries and she was very loud and everything and then it's kind of like wow like i could never be around him and he's a stellar person like how many stellar people have i not been able to be around

Adeel [73:06]: Yeah.

Martha [73:08]: And you're like, how has this shaped my life?

Adeel [73:12]: We just have to keep looking forward. Yeah. We just have to keep looking forward. Kind of like, this is kind of what we have to do. That's kind of one of our, I think, superpowers is like, we have to look forward. Otherwise, you know, we just get stuck in that loop.

Martha [73:26]: And so I feel like... Well, that's the same thing with our... But it... i think in in some ways it may have made me more open to a lot of the things that come with recovery because the thing with uh trauma recovery because you know like i mentioned that cptsd trauma recovery and substance abuse recovery is people want to look back so much and I'm like forward motion forward motion like that's just my thing you know I'm like apologize to people you have to apologize to and change your behavior forward motion I can't live in a shame spiral about my past and um you know like you said maybe that is partially I have that ability because I've had to be unapologetic about my misophonia and unapologetic about I can't eat here and I can't do this. I'm already used to setting boundaries. So I guess it doesn't make sense to me when people are like... well, how do I get out of wine night with the girls? I'm like, I've been getting out of wine night for, like, 10 years now. Like, I can't listen to people, like, change glasses. Like, you just say no. And I go, yeah, it's our superpower. We throw at boundaries pretty quick. Unless people want to catch hands or watch me yell at cats.

Adeel [75:02]: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, well, that can make somebody's day, too. Well, Martha, we're, yeah, I mean, we can go on for a while, I'm sure.

Martha [75:14]: Oh, yeah, yeah. If you ever need me back, I'm around.

Adeel [75:17]: Well, I was going to say, yeah, right, it'd be interesting to hear maybe how this relationship goes. I wish it the best and everything. And, yeah, and actually, I was going to say post-pandemic, I'm curious, yeah, how things, if that white noise comes out for you.

Martha [75:32]: He's a generally quiet, he's a generally quiet man. It's just the, uh, the, the chewing thing, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And actually I was very proud of him because I had, uh, I had a, sometimes I have an intersection of, uh, uh, misophonia slash panic attack. And those are really fun. Those are super fun. But what happened was I was, we, we got in an Uber and, um, the uber driver i swear to god the car had no shocks and he was hitting every pothole on the way like we only had to go 25 blocks and i don't know do potholes bother you they bother me like when i get a really bumpy ride yeah it's it's almost the same kind of trigger like because it's

Adeel [76:31]: It's jarring. You can't concentrate on anything.

Martha [76:34]: Right. Right. So right as this horrific cab ride starts, my son is texting me asking me to order him some Seamless. But of course, my kids don't just want a pizza like a normal kid. He wanted me to order poke bowls. so and one wants this and one wants no edamame and one wants no spicy sauce and I'm like trying to do this order and the potholes are hitting and I'm like and I'm losing words and I can't breathe and for the first first time in me and my boyfriend's relationship I saw him like handle it well and like get me out of the car and help me focus and you know kind of be like make a decision i'm like kids are getting pizza and when and when we got up to the apartment um he knew to back away because the first time he witnessed witnessed a misophony episode he tried to calm me down which resulted in a sword yeah in a just let me spin out like i literally was like can you just go sit over there for a minute and it's like you can't talk to grown men this way martha but i have to for the sake of my sanity so yeah and and i was lucky enough that this happened further into our relationship as opposed to when it's happened early on

Adeel [78:23]: because i think he would have taken it more personally if it was in the first few months of dating as opposed to after a year right right well that sounds very i mean that sounds like a promising uh promising path so far um yeah great to have you on with more stories um and then with this with this gentleman um I'm going to definitely have links to your podcast, your work. Is there anything else you want to share? One last crazy story. Oh, one last crazy story.

Martha [79:08]: Oh my gosh. I don't want to put you on the spot. No, I got one. My stepdad got the sugars. He got diabetes. and my mom in her infinite wisdom went and got him a no sugar whipped cream not just one can she got a costco six pack of industrial size can now my stepdad god loves him has The eating habits. Of an eight year old kid. And he loves his sweets. So he was hitting that can. Every freaking second. On top of that I was pregnant. And he would just go into. He was putting that whipped cream on everything. And for some reason in my mom's house. Noise carries so bad. So between the. the utensils on the plate in my chair you'd hear yeah yeah yeah and he would go to the fridge and it was like he was putting it straight in his mouth and it was just we're hearing this like all the time and I'm like is he putting it on his pork chops like what food does this man not put this shit on and I'm losing my mind every time right So I'm back in the bedroom and it's driving my sister crazy. It's driving my brother crazy. We're back. We're hiding. We're hiding from the whipped cream can. And then here comes my mom. She's like, give me that damn whipped cream. I go, no, you get out of here. You bought it. It's your fault. You go. You don't get to hide in here with us. And then she even got mad about the tapping. And she comes in and she's like, oh, my God, why is it getting everywhere? And we're like, you don't get it. You married him. You go. So my brother had us dying laughing because he does the best impersonation of the whipped cream can. He went to the fridge and he's like, guess who I am? So like you said, humor is the best. And I feel like in family units, like once everybody And it does suck because it does feel like one person ends up being the butt of all the, like, trigger jokes. There's always that one person who's, like, the person. And, you know, it is what it is. I mean, like I said, I don't. hate my stepdad or like despise him in any way. He is so lucky he did not get a whipped cream can jammed down his frigging throat. But I can't believe my mom bought so many at one time. That was the other part that was so funny about it. We're like, it's like never ending. I remember one time I was like, can I just throw them all away? And she's like, no. he has diabetes he has diabetes he can't have sugar oh boy okay yeah it's not that i have like a thing against the so the whipped cream can't sound It's not the worst sound, but when you hear it a lot, I think that's a good takeaway, is that misophonia people, we can handle a few sounds. A couple taps isn't going to kill us, right? A couple utensil taps, not going to kill us. But if you're tapping it, like every bite you take, I'm going to stab you with a fork. there was also the time that i i almost stabbed my sister at the hard rock cafe my family thought it was a good idea to take me to the hard rock cafe where there's just the loud ass music and pencils and crowds this dessert came and my sister went for the dessert first and i grabbed a knife like and almost stabbed her and she looked at me she goes you were gonna stab me i'm like no But they were playing, like, Nirvana super friggin' loud at a restaurant at Universal Studios. Like, don't.

Adeel [84:27]: You heard that, folks. You're starting a restaurant. Don't play that. Horrible concept. Right, right. Don't have cabs coming over.

Martha [84:37]: I've made jokes about starting a misophonia restaurant where everybody gets a bubble and is required to chew quietly.

Adeel [84:43]: I want to hear about that. I'll invest. Right, right. Well, I've... Oh, thank you. I've thought about doing a Yelp for misophones where at least we can leave reviews on, like, you know, where we can handle which restaurants, which parts of the restaurants, you know, things like that.

Martha [84:58]: I joke with my best friend that I promised to... I'm like, I can't wait for us to be able to go out to eat again and chew quietly with each other. Um, but like, is it my, you know, I've said tons of times, but having a best friend has misophonia too. It's and now that I'm sober and it turns out like she's gotten to the point where she really doesn't like to leave her house. So I just go visit her and we do puzzles together with our headphones on.

Adeel [85:32]: Oh, beautiful. Yeah.

Martha [85:35]: It's really great. We're just like, we enjoy each other's quiet company.

Adeel [85:43]: Again, yeah, another interesting, positive note. Unique way of handling Lisa. Actually, I've never heard of that, but I'm just picturing it. What, that two people like to hang out and do puzzles with each other? Right, right.

Martha [86:00]: And I like that there was somebody who were like, when people comment on how expensive my headphones were, they're like, oh, those, oh, those are, those are, oh my gosh, those are the expensive ones. I'm like, yeah, they keep me safe and you even safer.

Adeel [86:18]: I love that line.

Martha [86:22]: I don't do it for you. I do it for you.

Adeel [86:28]: Well, let's end it on that note. I think we all get that. We all understand that phrase. That's a good one. We'll have to have that printed on t-shirts. I know. Well, Martha, this has been great. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, of course, of course. Good luck with everything.

Martha [86:45]: Yeah, and everybody can follow me at MarthaRecoveringOutLoud.

Adeel [86:51]: Yes, absolutely. I'll have the link in the show notes and on Instagram too when I post this. Thank you, Martha. I hope you were able to all hang in there for the whole episode. If you made it to the end, you were treated with some incredible stories, so good for you. If you liked this episode, don't forget to leave a quick review or just hit the five stars where you listen to this podcast. Music, as always, is by Moby. And until next week, wishing you peace and quiet.

Unknown Speaker [87:26]: Thank you.