Rachel - Author's Tale: From Annoyance to Inspiration

Adeel [0:00]: Welcome to the Misophonia Podcast. This is Season 3, Episode 9. My name's Adeel Ahmad, and I have Misophonia. This week, my conversation again is from the UK, this time with author Rachel Beckles. Rachel came to my attention when I found a short story she wrote called Golden that revolves around misophonia. We talk about that, her background with miso, misokinesia, growing up in a family with miso, as well as dealing with miso as a mother with two young children. Hey, so before we get to that, real quick, that Instagram group chat I talked about last week quickly ballooned to dozens of people. And we're always happy to add more. Just hit me up at Misophonia Podcast on Instagram to get added. Also, if you have a GitHub account, software engineers and developers, you'll know what I'm talking about. Look for the awesome Misophonia repo page on GitHub. I just created it as a place to keep links to all kinds of miso info and resources, research, online groups, nonprofits. Still need some work, but if you're on GitHub, feel free to submit a pull request with changes and I'll merge it in. I'm hoping this will get noticed by more engineers who have been told by therapists to make up a large portion of our Misophonia community. Anyways. More cool stuff on the Misophonia podcast website that I will announce next week. For now, I really want to get right to my conversation with Rachel. Rachel, welcome to the podcast. It's good to finally speak to you.

Rachel [1:43]: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Adeel [1:45]: Yeah, it's been really interesting. I really want to get into your writings, the book that you, or the short story you wrote on Misophonia. And also, yeah, I want to hear about your life. But do you want to tell the listeners, I guess, first of all, around kind of where you are in the world?

Rachel [2:05]: I'm in London, UK.

Adeel [2:06]: Gotcha. Okay.

Rachel [2:08]: It's 5am. So I'm very, very quiet at the moment.

Adeel [2:11]: Yeah. Yeah. Wake up. Gotcha. Yeah. No worries. No worries. Uh, yeah. Thanks for doing that. Um, let's see. I, I got in, uh, I came aware of you, I think, uh, through your writing. Uh, do you want to talk about, um, you know, the, the book you wrote and about misophonia and kind of how that all came to be?

Rachel [2:33]: Okay, so I wrote a short story called Golden and it was inspired when my daughter wasn't feeling very well. And so it meant for two weeks, not two weeks, sorry, bless her, for a few days, she just complained and she just started making a moaning sound. And she lay on my lap because she's only two, bless her, at the time. And she just kept making this complaining sound over and over again. And it drove me mad. So I decided to use that as my muse to write a short story about misophonia. And it was inspired by that Michael Douglas film, you know, Falling Down?

Adeel [3:21]: Oh, yes.

Rachel [3:23]: And Stephen King's Misery, which are two of my favourite films. I have a dark sense of humour sometimes. So, yeah, I just wrote about what could potentially happen when people are triggered by those frustrating sounds?

Adeel [3:39]: Yeah, it's really well written. I won't give it away, but it's not written in a totally linear format. It's kind of... it's it's kind of remembering something that happened and uh the way you reveal everything it's it's uh yeah it's it's a really good read really really good read highly recommend people people check it out um thank you so um you got a direct sense of humor you have this phobia i mean not everything you write is about is uh in this vein you want to tell us kind of a little bit about what you what you do professionally no yes um i usually write children's picture books so

Rachel [4:21]: very extreme. So I have a pen name for my short stories, which is Rebecca Campbell. But I write under my own name for my children's book. So I just write happy, exciting picture books. And I have written a book about anxiety as well and how I've been able to cope with like successful strategies and techniques to overcome my anxiety.

Adeel [4:50]: And is that aimed at children or was it more?

Rachel [4:53]: That one's for adults. I mean, just anybody who's experiencing it, really. I would say anybody over 10.

Adeel [4:59]: Is that something recently you did? Yes, I wrote that one last year. Okay, gotcha. Interesting. And where are your books available? I mean, they're available everywhere, I would imagine, right?

Rachel [5:15]: Yes, they're all available on Amazon.

Adeel [5:17]: Excellent. And the, I mean, Even Golden?

Rachel [5:21]: Yes.

Adeel [5:21]: Yeah. Oh, excellent. Yeah. Great. Okay. And, and so yeah, you're you're right, professionally, your children's books. Have you have you had interest? Have you in the anxiety book? Is that also published as kind of a similar publisher? Or is that something you kind of like releasing on the side?

Rachel [5:45]: It was independently published. And but it's available on Amazon as a paperback ebook and an audio book.

Adeel [5:53]: Oh, wow. Okay. Great. Great. Great. Um, so yeah, why don't we, why don't we go back to kind of early days for you? Like, um, you know, we heard a little bit about, um, your, your, uh, your young daughter driving you mad. Um, but let's, let's build up to that point to, uh, kind of early days for you. Did you grow up in, uh, in the London area?

Rachel [6:15]: Yes, yeah, I've always lived locally to where I am now. Okay. Grew up with my mom and dad and my brother, and I started experiencing misophonia. It wasn't necessarily an anger reaction. It was more of a curiosity, like, what's that noise? Or what is that noise?

Adeel [6:34]: An extra sensitivity. What is that noise? Yeah.

Rachel [6:36]: So it was like when people are breathing, I'd be like, what is that noise? Or I'm chewing. Why are you chewing like that? What is that noise?

Adeel [6:45]: Was it the usual kind of age, like around pre-pubescent, like late elementary school, like around?

Rachel [6:53]: I think it was really young. I think it was like five, six. I did start to realize, but it just didn't bother me. I think it started to bother me around that pubescent stage. And that's when things like, um breathing and um sniffing and uh we call it football soccer like the background noise the the crowd yeah okay gotcha yeah the roar and all that yeah interesting so that that did that wasn't uh that that didn't really work it's like a a white noise that was just uh no i could tune it out every now and then and i still can And then every now and then I get that, what the hell is that noise? And then I realize it's football.

Adeel [7:43]: Oh, okay. Wow. So even to this day, that's... Yeah. Not my favorite sound. No. Oh, well, yeah. I mean, yeah, it's interesting in London. I mean, that's basically, yeah. Everywhere. In the blood. Yeah. um and so how did then how was childhood then was it uh yeah as things got to get more and more annoying was uh and you were obviously at the time not didn't know what it was uh didn't have the tools maybe to uh deal with it um or maybe it was it was fine it was um i mean my brother we've talked my brother and i have talked about the same kind of sounds that irritate us

Rachel [8:30]: I am very good at laughing it off mostly once I've identified what that noise is and like a lot of your other guests do I'll mimic it or draw attention to it to everybody so everybody can hear it and they go oh okay I can hear it now and then I can say thank you I'm not crazy everybody can hear the same sound and Yeah, when I was young, mostly I could brush it off with some kind of humour. As I got older, I used to be a teacher, so there was a lot of sounds there as well. But what I found happened was because there were so many children and there were so many different noises, they were blended into one noise that I was able to filter out. but I think it bothered me a lot when I worked in an office which is a very very quiet space and then in that silence you've got someone who might chew some nuts and when it's very quiet and someone eats nuts it's like someone's eaten stones and now I can laugh about it but if I'm tired or if I was I didn't have anybody to joke about it with or make a comment about it or I didn't have any headphones to plug in. It might drive me mad. I do get, I can get angry. A lot of disgust. Oh my gosh, that is disgusting. Why are you eating like that? And it does make me wear a lot in my head. But yeah, that was when I noticed it the most. That was when it was, the hardest to ignore I don't know if you um know about um there's a part of your brain called the reticular activating system and I learned about it from Tony Robbins that motivational speaker oh yeah and a part of your brain that helps you to tune into things or to tune out of things so um your reticular activating system can help you to focus on a particular sound or look for like i love teslas so i can always spot a tesla on the road and that's my reticular activating system kicking in always looking out for the tesla but with misophonia we're always looking out for the sound and then once we've tuned into it it's hard to tune out of it um So I think that's why I can swing like a pendulum. Sometimes I can be okay with it and switch it off, but sometimes I can't. But I don't know if I'm, I'm not a scientist, but I think that that combined with our vital flight, that's why we get so angry or upset. Because once you've tuned into something, your adrenaline's making you think, oh my gosh, what's that noise? Do I need to fight it? Do I need to make it stop? How do I make it stop? It's making me sad. So yeah, I'm just very aware of that. Actually, when I had my son, when I was pregnant with my son, because I had known about my reticular activating system, I actually, when I get hot or when I get stressed, sometimes I can hear my heartbeat in my ears. And that At first, I was so confused. And I used to say to doctors, OK, all of my pregnancy symptoms are fine, but I can hear my heartbeat in my ears. And they'd all go, OK, I have no idea what that is. And I'd be like, oh, OK. And I think it's just because I'm able to tune into it sometimes with that reticular activating system. And then sometimes I can't tune it out for a while until I'm down or cooled down. I'm not feeling quite so stressed and my adrenaline goes down. So I think it's those things all muddled in together with us, misophonias.

Adeel [12:47]: Yeah, you're right. I mean, this tiredness, stress, obviously is a huge catalyst. And yeah, I know for me, it's like if I feel any of those things, then my... attention cannot be taken away from the trigger and uh it is when um sometimes if it's like um seems to be like financial like if i happen to check i got you know i got paid or something or i saved some money or or and then i feel a little bit more i feel like less stress if something good happens i feel less like i can handle it i can uh yeah it's the the sound is not the only thing happening in that moment is is kind of my sensation um yeah there definitely is something yeah it definitely is something there a coping method at least um Yeah, that's really interesting. I've never heard it kind of expressed in that way. Thank you, Tony Robbins.

Rachel [13:48]: It's very reassuring because then I know it doesn't last forever and I don't feel overwhelmed by the sound or the action that's happening.

Adeel [13:59]: Yeah, I try to tell people... I mean, mimicking never really worked for me. It doesn't work for some people, but... you know that's uh i feel like that's kind of almost like a last resort um it's if you can't it doesn't fix it if uh and and then the other pro the something that kind of sometimes helps is like going into a situation and just kind of like warming your buttering your brain up into thinking like no nothing's here threatening you but you know it's it's um we don't always remember to do that. And so we're, we're, we're going into a lot of situations cold and then our attention is being grabbed. And then, yeah, it's like, how much sleep do we get? Are we stressed out? Um, I do. Yeah, that's really interesting. So does that kind of change the way you, um, and kind of approach situations? It sounds like with your, with your son, it sounded like you were more aware of this and you tried to, uh, maybe, um,

Rachel [15:07]: cope in that way so that he wasn't triggering you is that kind of one manifestation of how you use that realisation I think with him when I was pregnant I just became so much more aware of my insides as well as my outside sounds so even now I can hear my pulse in my ear in the background but it's not Like baby sounds don't stress me. It would be sounds like during lockdown, my daughter learned to whistle. But when somebody's practicing to whistle, it's the most painful thing ever. And then once they've mastered it, they're so proud that all they want to do is whistle. So it's just things like that. And when she's really happy, her and her little brother pretend to be puppies and they yap and howl and

Adeel [16:05]: um that's a fun sound yeah um so yeah it it's interesting yeah no kidding and so uh because why don't we yeah let's talk about that maybe lockdown so right now we were recording this i guess in in uh mid-october um is is london's back in some kind of a lockdown or what's what's the situation there

Rachel [16:34]: We're in a weird limbo where they're trying their hardest not to lock us down again. But things are closing early and some parts of the north are going into like stronger, more enforced phases of lockdown. But in London, it's not too bad at the moment. So everywhere schools are open and shops But a lot of things close at 10. Gotcha. We can only meet up with six people at a time.

Adeel [17:16]: Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you guys had those weird group limits. Yeah, the rule of six. So your schools are all like open, open, like the kids are all going to school? Yeah.

Rachel [17:28]: yeah here it's uh yeah that's not the case in most most most districts um they've created bubbles so it's not they're trying to keep each class or each year group as separate as possible so that if in the event that there was somebody with that c word in there they would isolate that class rather than the whole school gotcha okay interesting

Adeel [17:56]: Um, okay. Yeah. Well, slight digression there, but, uh, but, but, but still, still on the, on the, uh, subject of lockdowns, uh, yeah, it sounds like with your, with your kids at home, uh, you became, uh, earlier in the year, became more aware of sounds. Uh, was that, was that a kind of a rough, rough period as, as I'm sure it was for a lot of people? Was it especially rough for you kind of sonically?

Rachel [18:24]: It was a noisy period. And I guess maybe going back to the teaching kind of element, when there's a lot of sounds and they all blow into each other, it wasn't so bad. My husband was working from home, but my son and my daughter were together and playing. But the whistling was hard. And there were odd sounds that were quite difficult. I did also get... is it mythokinesia yes yeah mythokinesia yeah so it's hard I find I get it especially if I'm eating so if I'm eating and people are like my kids are bouncing around or there's a lot of jiggling happening it makes me feel nauseous which can make me nap make everyone sit down and sit still I need to eat and then you can do what you want to do or I need to go in another room so I can eat but yeah lockdown I think there was so much going on that it wasn't it wasn't the focal of my stress at the time yeah well yeah right this year there's lots of competition for what is the most stressful yeah it's waiting for dinosaurs to come back yeah yeah

Adeel [19:52]: Well, yeah, they're, I think they're ruling our country over here, but, uh, uh, it's another story. Um, so yeah, interesting. So you mentioned that, um, um, it's kind of, uh, affects you while, while you're eating. Um, is that, does that, um, do you need to eat on your own, uh, a lot as a, as a family or does it, or it's, it's not, uh, if like my children tend to eat before me, um,

Rachel [20:22]: So if I'm eating and they're in the same room with me and they're like bouncing around or jumping around, I will ask them to stop just until I've eaten. Yeah. Or if they're really, really happy and enjoying what they're doing, I'll just go and eat in the kitchen.

Adeel [20:38]: Gotcha. Are they aware of your misophonia?

Rachel [20:42]: I don't think so.

Adeel [20:43]: Okay.

Rachel [20:44]: It's not something that you've seen.

Adeel [20:45]: Yeah. But it's not something that you're like, mommy has, you know. No. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha.

Rachel [20:53]: I do say to them, that sounds not fun.

Adeel [20:55]: Right. Okay.

Rachel [20:56]: That sound is not fun. Please don't do that.

Adeel [20:58]: Yeah. Okay. So, yeah. So you kind of like, right. You're very diplomatic about it, but it's not something that it's, you make a focal point of.

Rachel [21:09]: No.

Adeel [21:09]: Yeah. Okay, cool. How about your, how about your husband? Is he, is he aware of your miscellaneous? Yeah.

Rachel [21:20]: I've explained it to him.

Adeel [21:22]: What did he think?

Rachel [21:23]: I explain it to him all the time. Yeah. He understands as best he can.

Adeel [21:29]: Yeah.

Rachel [21:30]: Yeah.

Adeel [21:30]: And did you, is this something that... It's quite hard if you don't have it. Yeah, absolutely. And is this something that, well, is this something that you kind of explained to him early on in the relationship or was it something that kind of came up later?

Rachel [21:52]: I think it came up later. I don't know when it came up actually.

Adeel [21:55]: Yeah, yeah, okay.

Rachel [21:56]: It wasn't an early thing.

Adeel [21:57]: I know more and more people these days as they're becoming, well, the younger people who are, you know, just, you know, just in whatever in school or in college, they're kind of, I know some people, I've talked to some people who are trying to tell people like right away, you know, maybe on the first or second day just to kind of get that out of the way.

Rachel [22:21]: it must be so much nicer now that there's actually a word for it yeah because I do remember explaining to friends when I was at school that hearing you chew chewing gum makes me want to I don't know punch you in the face or throw the chewing gum out the window or something they just thought I was crazy and we would laugh about it a lot Which is probably where the element of humor came into it.

Adeel [22:48]: And humor is a good coping mechanism if you can laugh about something.

Rachel [22:58]: So I went to stay in a hotel when times were normal with a friend. And we were eating and watching TV and just really relaxing. And she started eating a chicken wing. And she said that she counted in her head. She was like five or three. And then before she even got to one, I lost it. And I was like, why? Why is it making that much noise? Chicken doesn't crunch. That means you're eating the wrong piece. And she was just in hysterics. And that's just, yeah. I get to be as honest as I need to be with my friends, which is fun. And then just laugh about it.

Adeel [23:33]: Right. And when did you find out that it was a real thing, that it had a name?

Rachel [23:40]: Um... My cousin, I think, me, my cousin and my brother, we all have it. And I think he sent me an article on Facebook quite a while ago now. And we were just all so happy that it had a name.

Adeel [23:58]: Yeah.

Rachel [24:00]: Like, oh my gosh, it's a real thing. It's not just me.

Adeel [24:03]: Right. and uh did you when you did you do your did you write about misophonia even before that like when before even you had a name or is that something that you started to write about afterwards no i wrote about it after um yeah What did you think it was before you knew it had a name? It was just like, you know, me, my brother and my cousin are just super sensitive to sounds.

Rachel [24:30]: It's a bit weird, yeah.

Adeel [24:32]: Yeah, we're just a bit weird friends in the family or whatever. Okay. Do you all have it kind of equally in your family?

Rachel [24:40]: I know me and my cousin have many a conversation where we can express it to each other about how much we've lost it because someone... eating a potato and it's really loud or something. Yeah. But it, I don't, I don't, I know we all have it with the eating. I don't know if they've got the, the site. I'm so keen to see a thing as well.

Adeel [25:06]: Right. But it's just as intense pretty much. Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel [25:10]: Especially my cousin.

Adeel [25:12]: Oh, gotcha. Okay.

Rachel [25:13]: And he's so passive. He's such a, he's such a lovely guy. So calm, so easy going. And he just,

Adeel [25:21]: he does look like me he feels like he loses the plot and loses his mind when somebody is chewing interesting okay so yeah so it's kind of been in your family um have you have you guys talked about um have you guys talked about uh how you know you each have it you're each in the same family have you kind of like i don't know theorized on maybe like the whole nature versus um nurture kind of debate on on misophonia like how did how did the three of us get it yeah no i haven't actually i have to do that um and your brother uh you and your brother growing up like um um did you yeah did you guys talk about it i'm curious how it was in the family uh what did your parents think uh because i'm sure you're both kind of uh um you know expressing it in in in your own ways growing up um do you know i would even think my mom has it slightly because she can't cope with thumbs down yeah but i think

Rachel [26:32]: that my family is probably where a lot of the humour came from it because me and my brother have the same sense of humour and my mum so we do mainly laugh at it but we do I guess we talk about it a lot or we talked about it a lot as in how frustrating that sound can be or how annoying it is that people can't eat in a particular way and Yeah, I have been at a table and not eaten a meal until somebody else has finished because of the way they're eating. I'm like, wow, I can't look away. I can't eat my food until you've stopped.

Adeel [27:14]: That's a horrible noise. So you can't look away? It's a far crash.

Rachel [27:21]: You can't look away. You can't stop hearing it. It's gross. A lot of sounds and actions and lip-snacking and

Adeel [27:31]: Right. Yeah, it was funny. When you were originally talking about, you know, feeling nauseous while you're eating, when your kids were moving around, I thought initially you were going to talk about the, you know, the typical being grossed out by people eating and then having that, you know, making it... Can be. So you have both of those. Not very often. Yeah.

Rachel [27:56]: Yeah, it's not very often anymore. And luckily, I've never had the experience of being grossed out that much by someone in my family. It's just somebody that I'm sharing one meal with. I think it would be a completely different experience if I lived with somebody who ate like that.

Adeel [28:16]: Gotcha. What do you mean by it doesn't happen that much anymore? You don't... You're not grossed out as much anymore or?

Rachel [28:25]: Oh, no, no. I'm still very, very grossed out. It's just that I don't, I mean, I guess maybe because of lockdown as well, we're not sharing that many meals with people outside of your household. But yeah, I have like been to lunch or to dinner with people and then eating cold food because I couldn't eat until they'd finished.

Adeel [28:46]: yes and uh and these are people that you've had meals with or do you just and so like friends of yours and whatnot um some friends or like if you go to a family gathering it's extended family members i'm curious what your friends say if you're just sitting there watching them and then that and then they're finished and then you're slurping everything down Carry on a conversation. Kind of having two meals.

Rachel [29:19]: I do remember two incidents when that's happened. And the people that were eating didn't notice. Oh. Which made it even funnier to me. Right. My friends, I mean, my friends know me, so if they're eating and they're making a lot of noise, I will say, close your mouth, that's disgusting. Or I'll just ask them, are you really enjoying that because you're making a lot of noise or something? It sounds like you're really enjoying that.

Adeel [29:52]: Oh, this will be hilarious. Yeah. We'd have some hilarious meals, I think. And have you, other than your family members, do you have any of your friends have miso? Sounds like a bunch of people in your family have it. I'm curious if you've bumped into other folks.

Rachel [30:08]: Yes, when I worked in the office, I met somebody else who had this. That was great because, and she sat close to me. And if she wasn't close to me, she'd get a very angry email from me about somebody who was eating, I don't know, nuts or crisps or something that just crunched really loud or slurped. I did have a lady in that same office who everything she ate sounded like cat biscuits. So, you know, when cats chew And they don't close their mouth. That's how she ate. Whenever that happened, I would just send an email to my friend or I'd start complaining to my husband via email. Like, oh my gosh, she's off again.

Adeel [30:51]: Right. Yeah. And how long did you last in that office?

Rachel [31:00]: A lot longer because I discovered headphones.

Adeel [31:03]: Yes. Yes. Fabulous invention. Fabulous invention. Yeah.

Rachel [31:08]: It genuinely saved my life.

Adeel [31:10]: Right.

Rachel [31:11]: And probably actually why a lot of lockdown didn't bother me because I always had headphones.

Adeel [31:16]: Yeah. Yeah, right. And by the way, do you have, speaking of headphones, do you have like a favorite pair or kind of tips on what you look for in headphones?

Rachel [31:29]: Just the ones that are charged, as long as they're charged. And I know they're charged. If they're not charged, that'll stress me out a little bit because I'm like, oh my gosh,

Adeel [31:37]: what if it says battery low halfway through that is the problem with this uh yeah that's the problem with these newfangled uh no wire headphones is there there's always that fear um so i like to always just carry around like a you know a bunch of cheap ass five dollar um wired ones uh just in case just in case because uh yeah worst case you don't you don't need uh Yeah, you don't need the noise canceling or anything. You can just, like, just make it louder.

Rachel [32:11]: And, I mean, to be honest, even in the office, I wouldn't even always have something on. It was just a little bit of protection between me and that sound. So I could still hear when people were calling me or discussions that were happening sometimes. So I might even just, like, keep them in for the whole day. And then if I heard someone cheering, I'd just put a song on or

Adeel [32:35]: audio book or something just to block it out for five or ten minutes and then turn it off again so and then um you know coming off that that office experience did uh did that experience kind of affect kind of what you what what you you know what you looked for in uh in a work environment after that um i think it just made me very very vocal about having misophonia

Rachel [33:03]: These sounds very, very annoying. Yeah, office wouldn't be my first choice for many reasons now.

Adeel [33:13]: But that would add to it. Yeah, right. So did you tell your bosses and whatnot at that point that you had these issues or you just, you know, you were out of there before you had a chance to do that?

Rachel [33:29]: No, I didn't. I mean, I was... I was lucky enough that it was a job that I wasn't in the office all the time. So I'd have meetings that were outside almost every day. I was never sat with one particular person for seven days a week, except like nine hours a day. That may alter my interaction with that kind of experience. I think it would be very, very intense if I sat with somebody all the time and they made those sounds. But I'd sit with them for maybe three hours on a Tuesday and then another four hours on a Thursday and not next week. So it was very intermittent, luckily.

Adeel [34:19]: Yeah, absolutely. And just a little side note before I forget, you, I've now, I think this week I interviewed the second person I know that lives in London and is in publishing. And so you'd actually, and so I know, yeah, I've talked to two people. One of them is Isabel, who is, that was published like earlier this year. She's, yeah, she's in London, works in publishing, is trying to get her, her company to maybe, you know, publish more books about Miss Sonia and then talk to somebody, Clara this week, and now you, and I know those two I've kind of introduced over email. Maybe I'll, I don't know if you're interested, I can get a little email group going.

Rachel [35:10]: We need a section in the library.

Adeel [35:12]: Yeah, yes, absolutely. Where would that section go, do you think, under true crimes or psychology? Yeah, mine would definitely be true crime. Yeah, library's a great place. I mean, I love books, but some people, some libraries sound like an infirmary or a hospital ward. But if you go in there with headphones, then it's beautiful. yeah and so um so are you planning to write maybe are you planning to write more books maybe related to more stories related to misophonia or uh was that kind of a gay uh a one-off inspiration um i never rule it out i haven't thought about another one at the moment but at the same time i never thought i would write golden right um

Rachel [36:11]: Yeah, I think it would be interesting. I mean, I guess the children's book about Mr. Fiennes would be good.

Adeel [36:18]: Yeah, that would be interesting.

Rachel [36:20]: To explain to children.

Adeel [36:22]: Yeah, that would be interesting. I wonder how that, because I know I've been to the Miss Whitney Convention and there was, I remember, you know, we were debating at one point. a few of us parents like should we um is this something that we should you know sit our kids down and tell them about or should we just not draw attention to um i think the can be uh people are leaning more towards the latter because we're not just not sure like how this thing starts or gets activated um yeah is you know and is it really necessary at that at that point so uh and i just thought the risk of it getting activated not knowing exactly how this whole thing works yeah it's like uh you know this this this is something we well i'd wish it upon some enemies and some politicians but most people i would not uh you know i would not wish this upon

Rachel [37:23]: I think the best thing for young children is just reassurance like it's okay I do think that a lot of their senses are heightened because they're younger so they probably do have a lot more curiosity about or they do anyway about sounds and my son is two and he's always asking what's that smell what's that noise and So they're just learning about the world. So I guess the approach I'm taking is just reassurance about what sounds are, what smells are, what sights are. And then they can make their own decisions about things. And then I guess if they were particularly dressed by a sound or a... I might go into it a little bit more if they were older and maybe that pre-pubescent stage where it starts to kick in for everybody but other than that just reassure them that the sound is this and it will stop or think about something else that's what I tell my daughter a lot just think about something else and it will go away if you think about it more then it gets bigger but if you think about something else it will go away

Adeel [38:45]: That's a great tip for someone that age.

Rachel [38:52]: Yeah.

Adeel [38:53]: What about your brother and your cousin? Do they have kids too, if you kind of talk to them about that?

Rachel [39:01]: Yes, they both have children. I don't know what their children are about. Their children actually are a little bit older. Oh, okay.

Adeel [39:12]: Yeah, interesting. Yeah, I'd be curious if they're looking out for those signs. Yeah. I'm curious, with the research that, well, kind of the thinking and the research that you've kind of done on reading on misophonia, are there any other kind of interesting insights that you've come across that maybe you haven't heard anywhere else, like on this podcast or in the popular literature on ways to cope, ways to understand misophonia?

Rachel [39:44]: I think I think the best, like, I think the strategy with the children is pretty universal. I think if you, again, Tony Robbins, he says where focus goes, energy flows. So the more you think about something, the bigger it gets and the worse it is. I guess that is an attitude that I do take to it and to just keep the humour in there. um because once you can laugh it off your adrenaline relaxes and you um you just feel better i can't remember what i think it's your cortisol you release and you um yeah you just your muscles relax you feel better whereas um when you're experiencing um focusing on the sound um you're in that adrenaline fight or flight and you stiffen up and you're not relaxed and your heart starting to race and your shoulders go up um so just using strategies that get you away from that feeling um i would say are the best things to focus on the things that make you relax your shoulders relax your muscles smile laugh um Yeah, just to make you feel better.

Adeel [41:06]: Yeah, that's great. Well, I think maybe we should end it on that note, feeling very relaxed now, just thinking about that. Yeah, Rachel, thanks for coming on and thanks for writing Golden. Obviously, I'll have links to that in the show notes. Yeah, I recommend everyone read that. yeah it's just it's interesting to read about me so kind of on paper in a fictional fictional setting especially uh yeah with the interesting story yeah thanks again and uh good luck uh good luck with uh with your all your writings thank you thank you so much thank you for having me thank you rachel please do grab a copy of golden and if you have kids or no kids Check out her children's books. Holidays are coming up. Her books are perfect to send or give to your own children as a gift. And you can get them on Amazon and beyond. If you're enjoying the shows, you know what to do. Just smash that five-star button on Apple Podcasts. Don't even have to write a review. Otherwise, hit me up on Instagram or Facebook at Missiphonia Podcast, Twitter at Missiphonia Show Podcast. If you're on Instagram, want to be on that Miss Funny Podcast group chat, just DM me there. Music as always is by Moby. And until next week, wishing you peace and quiet.