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Adeel [0:00]: Welcome to the Misophonia Podcast. This is Season 5, Episode 27. My name's Adeel Ahmad, and I have Misophonia. Today, I talked to Gabe, a student of classical guitar up in northern Washington State. This was a great conversation that touched on the effect of music on his life, within and outside of Misophonia. how difficult it is to communicate such a ridiculous-sounding condition to others, including family, how it's affected relationships with others, and the power of our Misophonia community. A quick reminder, you can shoot me an email at hellomisophoniapodcast.com or hit me up on Instagram or Facebook at Misophonia Podcast. I mentioned on Instagram that I've heard people want to be on the podcast, but they go on the calendar and they don't find any slots, so they kind of give up. Now, I record these in batches, and often people email me and I let them know, give them first dibs on the next time I have... slots available and so they tend to go even quicker um and so but please don't hesitate to give me an email and next time i have slots a group of slots coming up i will shoot you an email and um it's probably your best chance of uh getting on the show and uh helping reach other people all right here's my conversation with gabe gabe welcome to the podcast good to have you here thank you very much yeah i guess you want to tell us kind of uh kind of where you were about where you are
Gabe [1:34]: Yeah, I'm up in Bellingham, Washington.
Adeel [1:38]: Gotcha. Okay, cool.
Gabe [1:39]: It's about an hour and a half north of Seattle.
Adeel [1:44]: Yeah, I was just talking to somebody from Tacoma earlier. I've had a few people from Washington. Yeah, and do you want to talk about, I don't know, kind of what you do day to day?
Gabe [1:53]: Well, I just graduated from Western Washington University at the end of the spring.
Adeel [2:01]: Okay.
Gabe [2:02]: And right now I'm just working every day I work at a dog bake there.
Adeel [2:08]: Okay, yeah. And how is that for misophonia? I mean, you know, some people don't like barking, some people like the companionship and it helps them with their miso.
Gabe [2:19]: Yeah, I went in kind of nervous about it, but then it really turned out to be okay. The only problems I have with barking and stuff is... the same problems everybody else there has.
Adeel [2:36]: Right, right, right.
Gabe [2:36]: Yeah, we had a couple of real anxious dogs who'd screech bark 24-7.
Adeel [2:42]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Gabe [2:46]: That would get on anybody's nerves.
Adeel [2:49]: Right, right. And what did you... Do you want to mention what did you do for school?
Gabe [2:57]: I was in the music department.
Adeel [3:01]: a classical classical guitar oh excellent okay cool um yeah and is that something you want to pursue like which one which one which there are a couple of different directions here that you're curious uh what uh um you know what yeah what you what you i guess what you want to do
Gabe [3:24]: but so it's good for uh if you know something doesn't work out sonically then you can uh move move to a different direction so it's good to have options yeah but i've been playing guitar since i was really young and that's really what i've wanted to do my whole life i i i was in the performance major i want to okay i want to be a performer and i'm also really interested in composing and i'm also yeah good at teaching so
Adeel [3:55]: Nice. So do you primarily, yeah, and primarily classical guitar, do you perform other types of guitar or compose other instruments as well? Or is it mainly very focused on classical guitar?
Gabe [4:11]: For composing, at least, I try to compose for other instruments, but I'm not as good at it because I can't write very specifically but right it's different i can write yeah as i play and i can i know the instrument really well physically so i know what's gonna be what's gonna be really easy to play and what's gonna sound good whereas other instruments i don't quite know the the niche
Adeel [4:54]: Exactly, exactly. And so, um, yeah, I guess, um, you know, a lot of misophones, um, are, you know, very talented and music seems to be a big thing. Theater seems to be a big thing. Singing. Um, what, um, do you feel like there was a connection for you as you grew up, like, um, being attracted to music or, um, just being sensitive to sound, good sound and bad sound?
Gabe [5:20]: I, it's funny that you say good versus bad sound because yes, I definitely think there's a connection and at least for myself, part of classical guitar, you have to, you have to work on your fingernails. You have to file and shape your fingernails to get the right sound. So you have to get really good at figuring out what makes
Adeel [5:46]: good tone what makes the the good sounds and what makes the bad sounds so right i'm really good at eliminating the bad sounds yeah that's gonna be pretty subtle you must have you i mean you have to really sharpen not just your nails but your hearing make sure that it's like that you're i mean that's quite natural at this point yeah
Gabe [6:10]: yeah definitely and uh do you uh well maybe let's just go back to kind of you know miss bonnie like how did when did you start noticing stuff um honestly pretty classic story right at the beginning of puberty my my family especially my dad yeah you know yeah yeah eating breathing kind of it's a classic classic kind of stuff yeah how did you react like what was your uh i would i would i would really shut down and i i would be like kind of unpleasant i've only ever yeah burst out one time right read it ever since you know
Adeel [7:00]: yeah was that near the beginning or was that something like kind of late later on with you know after like maybe years of being just being frustrated maybe a couple of years yeah yeah not not too long after i started getting triggers right right right Do you have siblings too? I have a sister, yeah. Yeah, okay, okay. Did your family start noticing and how did they kind of react, I guess, at the beginning and then as things went on?
Gabe [7:31]: It's been kind of tough. You know, I know they don't get it, you know, and it's so hard to talk about it.
Adeel [7:44]: Yeah.
Gabe [7:45]: You know what I mean?
Adeel [7:46]: Right. I mean, so how do you start? It's like, cause it's, I mean, honestly, it just sounds, even to me, it just sounds so stupid. If you think about it objectively, it's like, how do you, how do you.
Gabe [7:56]: Exactly.
Adeel [7:57]: And I, I talk about it all the time and still sounds, you know, if I think about it objectively, it just sounds so silly.
Gabe [8:02]: Yeah.
Adeel [8:03]: How do you, how do you express to somebody else?
Gabe [8:05]: Yeah. And I, I kind of sympathize with the people on the other end before I even have that conversation. Because it's like, if I were in that scenario, I would kind of be a little embarrassed. And I would hate to make other people feel that way, you know?
Adeel [8:27]: Yeah. Yeah, that's come up a lot. It's like this weird, yeah, just weird. It's frustrating because it's like we feel really empathetic and we feel guilty. It's so much that we feel guilty that we're causing this pain. But at the same time, we realize it just sounds so crazy. Yeah, it's just really conflicting. Yeah. Were they ever mocking or was it just kind of like them just getting frustrated?
Gabe [8:57]: Oh, sometimes.
Adeel [8:58]: Shrugging and dismissing.
Gabe [9:00]: Yeah, my dad kind of does the thing where he does it right back after I ask him to stop, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's extra frustrating.
Adeel [9:11]: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Is that still to this day?
Gabe [9:14]: Yeah, probably.
Adeel [9:20]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you told them that it has a name and everything? Like, you know, it's real. You haven't said that?
Gabe [9:26]: No.
Adeel [9:26]: Okay.
Gabe [9:27]: I just, I have no way to know how to start.
Adeel [9:33]: Yeah. I mean, hey, if it makes you feel better, honestly, I'm the same way. I talk about this with everybody, but I, you know, have not broached the subject with my parents. So, yeah, I know it's hard. What about your sister? Same thing?
Gabe [9:50]: It's been relatively okay. Okay. Yeah. You know, definitely less than my parents, but there isn't not any, you know,
Adeel [10:04]: yeah yeah yeah are your um what i mean i don't know it's a difficult question but like is your sister close to your parents and i'm just curious how that compares to like i'm assuming she's not misophonic like she's not sensitive to sounds no but like you know is that closest difference different than your closeness with your parents now because of the misophonia or everyone's it's just that one thing between you guys um
Gabe [10:32]: That's hard to say. I think it's maybe, maybe a little bit.
Adeel [10:38]: Okay. So how, well then, and also how like what friends and stuff, like how did school go as you were growing up?
Gabe [10:46]: School was honestly pretty okay. Especially compared to what I've heard from other people on the podcast. But I never really had a a lot of problems at school. I think that it was just such a larger environment and it's a little bit louder, you know.
Adeel [11:11]: Background noise all the time.
Gabe [11:13]: Yeah.
Adeel [11:14]: Yeah.
Gabe [11:15]: So I never.
Adeel [11:16]: Did you end up, did you tell friends at all?
Gabe [11:18]: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when it was a big environment, it was more like, you know, hanging out with my friends. right right what did they say was that well how did how did they react well i uh i have a one friend who would get kind of upset about it so that was like i for the longest time i've never really had like a good response yeah In talking about it, which is probably why... Good response from somebody else.
Adeel [11:58]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Gabe [11:59]: Exactly. And I remember this vividly. One time, it was like after we ate dinner, I was trying to talk to him about it. We were like, had a piece of gum or something. And I did like the littlest noise. He's like, see, you did it too.
Adeel [12:18]: Okay, okay. Gotcha. Yeah, it doesn't quite work that way. Yeah. Well, some people trigger themselves too. But I'm assuming you're probably like most misophones where you don't trigger yourself. It's mainly other people.
Gabe [12:39]: I kind of do in a way.
Adeel [12:42]: Yeah, okay.
Gabe [12:42]: But kind of the same, kind of different. Just so I don't do it. Just so I'm not...
Adeel [12:53]: hypocrite okay yeah yeah yeah gotcha yeah um interesting okay yeah and uh i i guess so so i mean now i'm curious just again back to the guitar the music stuff would that start to um um Did you ever get really into that around the same time as your misophonia kind of developed? I guess it could be coincidence too, but I'm just curious if kind of you ever kind of took guitar as kind of an escape from, you know, the sensitivities that you were having. A lot of us, you know, especially around that age, we kind of like maybe disappeared to our rooms and we just become our own person. I'm curious if you did turn to music as an escape.
Gabe [13:38]: A little bit, yeah. I definitely would say I... started playing guitar before I started getting symptoms. I started when I was pretty young, like seven years old. And then symptoms started maybe
Adeel [13:56]: five or so years after that it's just kind of a guess i can't really remember yeah okay okay yeah interesting um was there anything like when when you noticed um symptoms starting was there um i don't know was there an extra stress in your life around the house or anything just curious if or if it's um you know one day just you start noticing it and start kind of
Gabe [14:22]: I think one way I started noticing.
Adeel [14:26]: It's common. It's the weird thing. Yeah.
Gabe [14:27]: Yeah. And I think, I think the extra stress happened after I started noticing that.
Adeel [14:35]: Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. And then, so then how did you, how did you, how did you cope generally? Did you, I mean, did you have headphones or earbuds that you could use or was it just.
Gabe [14:48]: For the longest time, I really didn't. You know, I would just shut down and maybe go run away.
Adeel [14:58]: Shutting down, but just like not wanting to talk, just wanting to get out of the flight, part of the fight or flight.
Gabe [15:06]: Yeah, exactly. And for the, you know, like most people for the longest time, I didn't even know what it was. I was just feeling these things. I didn't know why.
Adeel [15:18]: yeah yeah did you have other do you have other um uh you know anxiety like mental health kind of stuff that maybe you were seeing a professional about too or did you have you ever look considered talking to a professional about about uh misophonia some people are you know just begging for answers so they're they're looking for i've thought about it Yeah. And I think it's usually before they find it has a name. When they find it has a name and they find out, you know, there really is no way to cure it. Yeah. You know, we try to just kind of like look to each other for advice. But I'm curious if you ever kind of your parents suggested ever going to a therapist.
Gabe [16:00]: Not specifically for that, you know.
Adeel [16:03]: Yeah.
Gabe [16:04]: You know, they don't really talk about it. I don't really talk about it with them.
Adeel [16:10]: mm-hmm right right right um yeah so yeah just a lot of us shutting down and running and running away i'm probably now you're probably like you know now you've graduated you're probably uh hitting the headphones and the earbuds um um and uh you're maybe earplugs or or uh i've been thinking about the classic things your plugs Yeah, yeah, those are getting uh, there's a lot of ads showing up on social media for those Yeah, I did talk to somebody recently who uh, she she got them I think because they I guess there's one of them. Um, at least one model that looks a little bit like jewelry So she can you know, it just it just doesn't look like the color Yeah Interesting. So, um, it'd be worth trying. Um Yeah But, um, and then, um, yeah, I didn't, I mean, how did you find out it had a name? It was just kind of like Googling.
Gabe [17:09]: I don't quite remember exactly, but I think this was either like the first or second time I'd ever heard of it, but it was a, um, it was a John Green YouTube video where he was talking about it. And I, I just happened upon it and I was like, Oh, that's me. And it was super enlightening. I'm not the only one. At least there's something.
Adeel [17:41]: I know I've talked to at least a few in your state. There's a lot of people, a lot of us out there. What did you do at that point? Did you start researching? Did you share it with anybody close to you?
Gabe [17:57]: Not really.
Adeel [17:59]: So you probably don't know any other misophones, right?
Gabe [18:03]: Not personally, no.
Adeel [18:04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you go online to any of the social groups, Facebook groups or whatever?
Gabe [18:10]: Yeah, that's actually how I found out about your podcast.
Adeel [18:14]: Oh, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, some of those are pretty useful. Yeah, there ends up being a lot of raw ranting in a lot of them. But, you know, at least it's a place people can gather. So that's good. Yeah, and so now with your, I guess with... What you're, are you planning to, I guess, yeah, we talked a little bit about what you want to maybe do in the future. Have you thought about like environment, like what kind of environment you want to work in? I mean, you said you're a teacher, you enjoy like teaching and that doesn't trigger you so much or.
Gabe [18:59]: Not really.
Adeel [18:59]: Oh, you're not sure at this point. Yeah.
Gabe [19:02]: I suppose if I were a teacher, I'd be. like one-on-one lessons. So.
Adeel [19:08]: Oh yeah. Oh, for guitar. Of course. Yeah. You know, big lecture hall.
Gabe [19:12]: I suppose there was as much of a chance of being traded there as I would in any of any other one-on-one scenario.
Adeel [19:21]: Right. Right.
Gabe [19:23]: So I guess the stakes aren't higher.
Adeel [19:27]: yeah yeah yeah um yeah i mean well i guess one-on-one you can it's just you know there's only one person to kind of like tell to kind of maybe nudge you in a certain direction i suppose if i'm the if i'm the teacher right right um and and actually yeah i mean in terms of you know other kinds of relationships what about in like you know significant others and relationships. Has that has been an issue?
Gabe [20:01]: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It's been hard with roommates and my my partner as well. My my last roommate. It was pretty tough. They they had triggered me quite a bit and it was it was especially hard Because it was very... I hate to say constant, but there was not a lot of... Break time or recovery time. Yeah.
Adeel [20:42]: So was it somebody you knew before you entered the roommate situation? It was a mutual friend. Yeah. gotcha okay um so you had to remove yourself from the situation or it was it ended up being kind of a blow it seemed sound like it was a tough uh split yeah i mean are you still living with them no yeah no we um decided it would be best for all of us if we found different living scenarios gotcha gotcha so and then are you now uh the next time around like Are you trying to be a little bit more, I don't know, I don't want to say careful, but just trying to maybe suss it out a bit more before you maybe talk with the person more before you enter a roommate situation?
Gabe [21:36]: Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, it's really hard to talk about it. Yeah.
Adeel [21:44]: Yeah.
Gabe [21:44]: But I'm hoping I can muster up the courage to get on it before.
Adeel [21:51]: before it becomes a problem yeah yeah and with this is yes with with roommates with with with partners how do you bring it up how do you how do you bring it up or well my partner knows yeah they're pretty pretty conscious about it pretty chill about it okay yeah you know I mean it's not easy right yeah yeah yeah yeah what about like just strangers like do you i mean um do you do you ever well i guess yeah it means hard enough to talk about with people you know um i'm curious uh um have you ever you know try to hush people i i don't know i'm just trying to like uh uh tell people to kind of like uh not make a sound or or just kind of bottle it up
Gabe [22:45]: It's definitely not as bad with people I don't know. I definitely noticed that and heard that a lot of people noticed that as well.
Adeel [22:55]: I think it's, yeah, I think your brain just kind of tells you that, hey, this is somebody you're not going to be around after 10 minutes, so don't worry about the threat. Maybe that's kind of what's going on.
Gabe [23:09]: Yeah, and I think my personal theory is that it gets worse the more you hear the same thing over and over which is like if you hear a random person do something it's like right whatever but if you hear somebody you live with do it every day right then it's much worse right
Adeel [23:35]: And part of the, I don't know about you, but part of the fear of telling somebody, it's not just the weirdness, but it's like if they don't respond positively and you're already triggered, there's only one way to go as down. It's just going to get, it's just going to feel worse.
Gabe [23:54]: Yeah.
Adeel [23:54]: And then you're kind of like trapped.
Gabe [23:56]: Yeah.
Adeel [23:57]: So that's part of the, yeah, it's part of the thinking, like, is it worth risking that and making it worse? Yeah. It's kind of a no-win situation.
Gabe [24:08]: Yeah, you're definitely right. What about visual triggers? I have a little bit. Not nearly as much as audio, but with my parents, definitely. I'd say it's all definitely the worst with my parents. Right. And I'm sure that's not unique.
Adeel [24:33]: Oh, no. Yeah. No. Your brain has had lots of time to kind of like be programmed with your parents' sounds and all their mannerisms. And then the visuals, I think, are, you know, a warning, a pre-warning. So, yeah, that's kind of tough. Do you guys get together for the holidays and stuff?
Gabe [24:56]: Yeah.
Adeel [24:58]: Then you have an escape route and a plan of action and stuff to deal with it.
Gabe [25:07]: I'm just kind of a person who needs their space anyway. If I just disappear, nobody's going to... Nobody will be upset.
Adeel [25:19]: Nobody's going to call the police. Honestly, holidays are... not as bad especially if you have a big group of people because it's bigger and louder and there's more noise covering it up right right other family members have you told uh well i mean are they aware um no nobody's even aware yeah yeah yeah not yeah not really not really uncommon it's just it's just during the last few years that people are starting to kind of like
Gabe [25:52]: poke around and kind of tell tell other people about it i think yeah i'm thinking the best way i'm gonna i would go about telling someone is to find a video of somebody talking about it maybe i'll try to track down that john green video yeah yeah but it's just so it's so difficult to explain because you can't you can't explain what it feels like no
Adeel [26:19]: There is, I mean, there's that documentary, Quiet Please. That's right. Which I'm sure you've probably seen it if you're in the Facebook groups. I actually have an interview with Jeffrey Scott Gould coming up. Talked to him a few days ago. So that's a good one. I mean, there's the old 2020 video from like, what, nine years ago or so. There's a New York Times article that kind of like broke this story open from 10 years ago. Usually those are, you know, TV, New York Times. That's kind of like convinces or just kind of like makes people take it a little bit more seriously. You know, if you're looking for stories. And also one reason why I did the podcast is like, I want to have like, you know, a list of, I want to have like a growing list of hundreds of interviews so that if, you know, somebody wants to prove it to their parents or whatever, they'll just be like, yeah, here's like a list of hundreds of people. who opened up about it yeah and have you know nobody else to talk to so obviously you know now you know look at that and tell me it's not a real thing kind of thing so yeah yeah i mean so are you um um where i guess yeah what do you what do you um because where are you now in your kind of misophonia arc i guess are you uh planning to just kind of like um you're you're kind of like
Gabe [27:44]: plateauing and like just kind of seeing how seeing how things go or are you planning to kind of like is it getting to a breaking point kind of thing for you it it might it might be getting kind of close i think maybe some kind of therapist or something might be good but you know nobody really knows about it yeah like i've heard yeah i've heard people talk about going to a therapist and they suggest exposure therapy and I'm like, no, no, no.
Adeel [28:16]: Yeah, no, no, no, no. No, yeah, yeah.
Gabe [28:19]: Yeah.
Adeel [28:20]: Yeah. Let me, yeah, let me walk, talk you off that, off that clip. Yeah. There's CBT, there's cognitive behavioral therapy, which is a very common form of therapy that people say is probably the best chance of making things better. And it's all about kind of reframing your mind after you've... been triggered. Yeah. It's like, how do you get back to normal? I know you said it's kind of hard to explain, but, you know, I'm sure people listening would understand what you you know, how you describe how how do you feel when you go through certain triggers?
Gabe [29:02]: It's it's so hard to explain. The closest thing I can think of is the closest thing I can relate related to is like fear.
Adeel [29:14]: Mm hmm.
Gabe [29:15]: you know yeah it feels very similar to being afraid of the dark you know yeah yeah yeah i'm sure that goes back to the fight fight fight or flight yeah some some kind of phantom threat or something that your brain is perceiving exactly and it's so hard to explain that because there isn't one
Adeel [29:40]: Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's like trying to say that you still have your imaginary friend when you're an adult kind of thing. It's like, yeah, I'm really interested that you're, I've talked to a lot of musicians. I feel like we should all get like a, first I was thinking a band, but now it seems like we can maybe get an orchestra together. There's so many, the Miss 20 podcast band. Do you play in a band or anything? I'm curious. I have. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Gabe [30:04]: I have, yeah. Classical guitars, mostly solo instruments.
Adeel [30:09]: Yeah, right, right, right, right. When you do performances, how do you, how do you cope? I've talked to like concert pianists and whatnot. And it's like, you know, we've all seen, I don't know what, maybe you haven't seen that the Seinfeld episode when George is clicking on the PEZ dispenser while somebody is playing a piano on stage. Like, do you ever get distracted or taken out?
Gabe [30:32]: Very rarely.
Adeel [30:34]: I don't want to start that trigger for you or anything, but yeah.
Gabe [30:39]: Usually people are pretty conscious of how loud they are in a concert, which is really nice.
Adeel [30:48]: Yeah, I'd be concerned about solo instruments like classical guitar. It's like you're not the timpani at the back and kind of shielded. Mm-hmm. Where are you teaching at? Are you teaching locally? Are you doing Zoom classes, probably?
Gabe [31:07]: I'm not teaching right now. Pretty much all my time is taken up at the dog daycare.
Adeel [31:17]: yeah yeah but that's more for like a stable stable gig or whatever right yeah exactly i'm just wondering if you know if i i'm always i'm always interested in supporting uh um you know businesses run by misophones so if you were ever like you want to teach classical guitar i'm sure a bunch of misophones might want to uh pay you for zoom classes that's an idea i'll put in uh i'll put in a plug um when this oh actually even before then when this comes out before this comes out yeah anything you want to kind of share with people um about um yeah about misophonia i i know you've you found out about the podcast through the through the uh through the facebook group are there other places that you kind of meet up with uh or or learn about misophonia i guess it must have been was it pretty recent that you found it like you had a whole community i know you said you really recent maybe a year or two okay yeah yeah yeah yeah okay yeah but that's honestly it so yeah being able to hear people's experiences very refreshing even though yeah even though a lot of them are very similar yeah it's weird weirdly similar it's like uh if um and if you want to you know if you want to connect with anybody who's uh you know who's been on the podcast feel free yeah you know i can connect people on email because uh it's yeah it's like it's like you said you know you almost like feel like you know the person like like half of not just personally but you kind of know half of their experiences it feels like you know like a big part of their brain yeah i don't know any anything you want to share with people who are listening i suppose just learn from my own mistakes and that the faster you talk to people about it the better
Gabe [33:12]: I'm still, even though I know that, it's still hard.
Adeel [33:19]: It's hard to execute on it, yeah. I mean, I think we go through those conversations many times through our heads, and it usually ends up not. It's kind of negative. So we kind of chicken out of actually doing anything. Initially, when I started this podcast, it was more about it was about kind of getting the word out to like non misophones. But honestly, now it's like I think we got to start just by kind of like hearing each other's stories and kind of getting to know what we've all kind of learned from our own experiences. Because I think there's a lot of like healing that needs to happen internally before we can kind of like be right. Because then, you know, you don't know what the reaction is going to be. So you need to be mentally prepared for that. Whatever you decide to change. And, you know, just know that I and everyone listening are always here for you. Yeah. Anyone who's been, I know, trust me, anyone who's been on the podcast would is, would be happy to, to help, to help out. So, you know, if you ever wanted to, if you're, if you're like, Hey, I'm thinking of telling my parents or something, you know, next week or whatever, you know, I think anyone would be happy to kind of be at least a sounding board. So yeah, whatever, whatever, whatever you need.
Gabe [34:38]: Yeah, thanks for doing this. It's helped me a lot, and I'm sure it's helped a lot of people.
Adeel [34:45]: Thank you, Gabe. Really great talking to you. If you liked this episode, don't forget to leave a quick review or just hit the five stars wherever you listen to the podcast. You can hit me up by email at helloatmissifoneypodcast.com or go to the website at missifoneypodcast.com. You can just send a message on Instagram at missifoneypodcast or also on Twitter at missifoneyshow. Support the show by visiting Patreon at patreon.com slash missifoneypodcast. Theme music as always is by Moby, and until next week, wishing you peace and quiet.