[00:00:00] Adeel: Annie, welcome to the podcast. Good to have you here. Thanks.

[00:00:03] Annie: I'm really excited to be here.

[00:00:05] Adeel: You wanna tell us where you're located a little bit?

[00:00:07] Annie: Yeah, sure. I, in Scotland, United Kingdom I've lived there for about, yeah, I dunno, I've lost for quite a while, over a decade.

But I was brought up and grew up

[00:00:17] Adeel: in France. Oh, okay. Gotcha. And so what are you doing out in Scotland then?

[00:00:23] Annie: Yeah. At the moment up until a few weeks ago I was not working. Maybe for the past three years I was, I've been out of work on mental health grounds and such but a few weeks ago I have started doing a course in mental health peer support.

So that's been pretty cool. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, it's what nice way to get back into working, before that I worked in social care or in the third sector, which I guess in the US is non-profit. And I got a bit burnt. I think I only had so many years worth of energy for the typical workplace, and I've used them all up in my twenties.

I'm 35, 9. I'm like, okay, , yeah, I'm going. I just wanted something different. So peer support's quite cool because it's what is based on your lived experience, so you support people with that. So using that as opposed to being a, doctor or a therapist. So it's really quite cool in, in a way Yeah.

[00:01:19] Adeel: Peer to peer support. So how would you would you, would it be through setting up a practice or online?

[00:01:25] Annie: Yeah, so a lot of people do it online nowadays, especially, it's been done online for a while, but yeah, you can do it whatever way you want. I think that's like the beauty and the weirdness of it is just very much anyone can be a support worker, but more and more a peer support worker.

But more and more now, more traditional settings, employ peer workers so you can work through another organization and you can set up your own thing. I'm not that far ahead yet, yeah. You take

[00:01:47] Adeel: the course yeah. And are you interested all the mental, the universe of mental health or are you focused on misophonia or anything else?

[00:01:54] Annie: So interesting with me, my mis so was like be, before I looked at my misophonia, I had. I had complex mental health issues already, like I'm a survivor or psychiatry. So I was, I had really harmful experiences being younger. So I can't define myself with that quite a lot. Not like it's my personality, but it's a big part of the way I approach mental health.

And I have a I had a B P D diagnosis I don't really identify with, but I think we overlap overlaps with pt, ccpt, S B and I consider, so I'm really interested in that. And I had a substance use issue as well, a very long time. So what

[00:02:27] Adeel: is sorry to interrupt. B bp p D was that short

[00:02:30] Annie: for Oh, it's bo borderline Personality Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. So it's mostly about emotional dysregulation and such. But yeah, I think. Yeah, let's not get into the politics of the diagnosis. That's fine. But I think it does overlap with me. So in the sense that you really struggle with regulating your emotions and you get triggered and and and, a lot to do with, not afront or Cortex, but the other one that's about memory and such . So it's really related. So yeah, so I had to deal with a lot of that. I worked a lot in my own recovery, learning about, neurotypes, et cetera and doing a lot of the stigma, all that.

And I think, I've always, I think my kind, I've done a lot of work and I'm really interested in internal family systems, all that stuff to do with kind of the personalization, dissociation, all that stuff. And, but when it came to me as Aon. and it felt so separate in a way. It's always been really strange.

[00:03:27] Adeel: .

Yeah. I just in, in the just it, when you're thinking about mental health and how it's certain society kind of thing, it's always the ugly doctor set, set aside or that way?

[00:03:37] Annie: No, I meant in my, sorry, I'm a little I'm a little anxious about talking about, so I'm struggling to organize my thoughts, but I meant more on a Take your time.

No, that's okay. I meant more like on a personal level, see? So I'm gonna tell you, the first time I realized I had misophonia this is what it's called. I know a lot of people mentioned the New York Times. I never really came across that. Maybe because of now growing up in English speaking country and then bang uk, I dunno.

But I think in 2013 maybe is when I first realized it. I was in my flat and I was just breaking out and I looked at. and I saw a Yahoo Answers thing and someone described just exactly what was going for. The neighbors are playing music. Oh, it's only in the afternoon. It's not that bad, but I just wanna kill them.

. Yeah. Yeah. And when you see that thing, you have the light bulb moment, you're like, oh, this. And I, yeah. And I just type this long, passionate reply, oh man, you are not the only one. I feel the exact same, and I was like, shit, this is a thing. But despite at the time, I had a good kind of toolbox, a good grasp for mental health on, on emotional regulation with trauma influences your brain, et cetera.

The sprints theory, I dunno if you know about that. ? I don't think so.

[00:04:43] Adeel: But yeah, we can talk about that

[00:04:46] Annie: too. Some point. Yeah. You can think. Yeah. I felt like I had a gr good grasp on all that but I could not for the life of me with misophonia, and that's what I mean by separate.

And, every, everything else I'd done in therapy and such, or even within the community, within my relationships, I could always tie it back to my growth, my recovery, finding myself again, all that jazz. But with misophonia, I was like, this is a separate entity that makes no sense to me.

It I, when I come out of a misophonia episode, whatever, I have learned nothing about myself, wow.

[00:05:15] Adeel: You can't tie it back to anything. It's like you don't know exactly. I'd be curious, like, when, do you remember when you first started to be sensitive to Sams?

[00:05:23] Annie: I think I've always had a lot of people, with who've been on your podcast a kind of sensitivity to, to meal times and things like that. Sensitivity to body related sense, personal space, yeah. So I've always had that, and for me, I think the issue, like other people is I always met with really negative reactions when I voiced it as a child.

. And that's I think I absorbed all that. And on top of it I think I think for me, I've realized recently it wasn't just the sounds that other people made, it was also the fear of being. So I remember that, would walk on eggshells quite a lot or I would tiptoe, tiptoe to the top of the stairs the first floor, and listening to my parents talk and, they'd be having arguments or they'd be having a tense conversation about me because I was, very, I don't, I, dysfunctional humor still.

I always, they were like are we gonna deal with her with blah, blah? And a lot of that and a lot of adults. My parents barging in my room with something to vent or some complaints about me because I was listening to music or because I was crying, stuff that's just grim on my mom come, people coming in and venting and using me as this.

Tool for emotional regulation, never really knowing what mood your parents were gonna be in. And I think I just had these really volatile parents who were very guarded, but sometimes it's just exploited. Yeah. I'm not gonna get into detail, but for me, Ms.

Yeah. Is really linked to the home 100%. And most of my triggers around eating, et cetera, are gone over time. And cuz I've learned I've managed to apply my kind of trauma work to coping skills. Eventually, when I understand Muon has a trauma response for me.

Cuz it's so similar. But but things in my house is my main source of pain. Any noise in my house that I cannot control is very difficult. I think it's, I think it's a lot of that. And I think. From the moment I looked up this thing on Yahoo and I was like, oh yeah, I have that.

And the moment I realized this is a trauma trigger it was many years. I remember visiting my parents in France and they had a TV on, and I could hear it through the floor, into the room upstairs. And I was like, please turn this down. They're like, okay, turn it down.

Five bars, . Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like nah, you gotta put the headphones on. And I really pissed off and I just had a really bad meltdown, really painful. And I was like, oh mom, this is what's going on is when you put that TV on, I feel like someone's calling at me and it's trying to kill me, and she's yeah, and I was like, oh, that okay. And she's oh my God, that's horrible. I'm so sorry. And she turned it down. And yeah. So they still kinda this was. Maybe five

[00:08:01] Adeel: years ago. Yeah. Relatively recently. Not when you were a child. Sorry. That's interesting. Oh, sorry. Yeah.

No, yeah. That's interesting that, that your mom is, the, your childhood is a lot of this trauma of being surprised and paranoid about what very much what people were going to, if somebody was gonna come into your room and straight yeah. Like you said, venting and just like projecting their , whatever they're dealing with on you to now.

When it seemed like your mom, after the first five bars, she did apologize. Is it, does that mean that she , was some kind of, has been some kind of maybe understanding or reckoning in the intervening years?

[00:08:35] Annie: Yeah, I think so because I think I've been able to be quite vocal about not really my childhood with them but other things that happened to me, Outside of the home also, yeah, you can over trauma assault and stuff.

Yeah. And it's been, especially with my mother, it's been quite nice. And she's, yeah, she's recognized that she's trying to accommodate and I can be more open about it, which she is quite nice.

[00:08:56] Adeel: Okay. So she's more compassionate because she is compassionate, gone through other stuff and that maybe, I hate to say it, but maybe the silver lining of a lot of this trauma was may maybe made her realize that she should be more compassionate, .

[00:09:06] Annie: I think she's always been fairly compassionate. Okay. I think my parents, when I was younger, my dad was a lot more angry. Yeah. I think it's quite a classic case of, I think my dad did everything he thought he were supposed to do and he's still got, a crazy kid and his own emotional problems and what have you.

I think my dad's quite very sensitive and he has, we are very similar and. But with my mom I'm, it was a lot easier. I would just close her. It's really complicated, but it's just high turn date. And yeah, she does have the compassion, but I would say she doesn't have the understanding that this is a chronic thing.

Okay. And it affects everything I do. And so if I go to the height, she doesn't understand that. So I don't think, were you,

[00:09:45] Adeel: An only child growing up?

[00:09:47] Annie: No. I have a brother who's three years older and he's still around. He's, but yeah, he lives in my hometown. I don't think he had anything like that going on.

I don't remember him.

[00:09:57] Adeel: Yeah. Teasing or

[00:09:59] Annie: maybe, no, not really. He did join in a little bit on. , the scapegoating me for everything that went wrong in the house because I was mentally ill, it was just quite factor. But I think he apologized since then and stuff. He has his own stuff to deal with as well.

Now he has previously from going into the army, things like that. And we had the same childhood. I think we were treated differently. We coed with it differently, but we had the same childhood, so has to share as well. No, I wouldn't say my, my fa I'm not close to my family, I moved away, et cetera.

, but close enough that I can tell my parents, Hey, I'm going through this or that. But interestingly, I'm not comfortable talking about misophonia because I think with miso, everyone's bothered by noise. Noise is a huge problem in our society. Yeah. At least where I live. Yeah. Thin walls, cars, everything.

You. people going around their phone on Speaker . Oh

[00:10:46] Adeel: God, yes. That's come up in a few episodes recently, and it's

[00:10:49] Annie: just yeah. It's just, oh my gosh. I try not to think about it. So yes.

[00:10:53] Adeel: You say it's hard to talk about you. Is it because it's like hard to get people to realize that our, our problem is much deeper than

[00:11:01] Annie: kind the generalized.

It's something like, it's completely different, and yeah, I think there's two sides. One side is ex's. For me, it's extremely revealing because I have to reveal this part of myself that's, it's quite vulnerable. I don't want to talk about it if I don't have to, but I know problem is also I'd like to talk about it.

But yeah, you just gonna project your own, irritation at noise onto it. And it's, trust me, it's not, it's, I always say to people, this is a trauma response. This is nothing to do with, this is really how I see it. Personally, this has nothing to do with all the noise. It's annoying,

[00:11:31] Adeel: Yeah.

Yeah, you're right. You don't wanna deal with people. People tend to just gonna shrug and assume they understand it. Do you , do I've had a number of people come on, I have experienced o other traumas and C P T S D. Do you find it , people who know about that?

Do they treat, do they shrug off the misophonia also because maybe, yeah. In society, , there, there's a hierarchy of, for better or for worse, there's a hierarchy of bad experiences. So misophonia, usually gets pushed to the bottom. Do you find it hard to if, like, how do you I doubt you. I don't know, maybe, dude, you don't do rank it in your head kind of thing like, or is it No. A mishmash. I'm just curious how you think about it in related relation to some of other

[00:12:07] Annie: stuff. Experience. Oh, I don't have a hierarchy for it and I think people around me have lived experience of trauma and I have some kind of awareness of work.

Literally get it. They're like, yeah. Yeah. And more and more now, I'm in the last kind of P nine communities and more and more people are like miso, misophonia, people with CCPT s d or autism and such, or PT for that matter. So now, but for me, no, I don't hierarchy. I think actually for me right now, misophonia is dominant because I don't really identify my b p D diagnosis anymore.

And I am in a good place recovery wise for my substance use now. And so I'd say Ms. Aya is not the main thing that I focus on because I think before it got lost a little bit as well in everything else. So

[00:12:50] Adeel: you think. Your b p d was it was anything like misdiagnosed? Was your mis was it like misophonia that was misdiagnosed into something else ever or?

[00:13:00] Annie: No. So my experience with B P D is, first I got diagnosed of it. I was like, what the hell is this? And then I rejected for real, what is this? And then I rejected it. And then I explored it again with a therapist who had lived experience of it. And we totally reframed it as, there's nothing deficient about you.

And this is through a kind of radical, non pathologizing approach. Started to connect with, with parts of myself, et cetera. And to really accept that, having this brain, this trauma brain is nothing wrong. And so for me it was like a portal, into learning about myself.

So it was a great experience. And the reason why I don't identify with it anymore, it's not because it's not really political. It's more that I don't really feel the symptoms anymore. I have, . I think when I first explored it, I was about 27 and I'm 35 9, so I'm like, yeah, but, so for me I'm more bearing towards CPT D right now.

I don't have an official diagnosis. I don't really want one. Because it really feels like he other overlaps with ms and I feel like I really, I'm really into internal family systems. So it's this idea that you are fragmented into different selves as a response of the pro prolonged harm or trauma that you experienced when you were developing.

So you have different selves. So you have your fighter, you have your protector, et cetera.

[00:14:10] Adeel: Oh, that's what you meant by family system. Ah, so it's different selves inside you. I thought you were sorry, I thought. We, at the beginning I thought you were talking about some kind of a little pod of, peers that were Yeah.

That you're No, I

[00:14:22] Annie: get it. It's,

[00:14:23] Adeel: yeah. I see. Okay. No, this is very interesting. So you've, part of your work has been to identify these different I wanna, I don't want to say voices cuz that's a whole other thing, but No, that's okay. Different si different sides of your personality or your very being yeah.

[00:14:37] Annie: People call them either parts in, in, in that other thing called transactional analysis as well, overlaps a little bit and it's ego states. So you know, you'll have your child, your parents, your adult, so you'll have the happy child, the free child, and you'll have the rebellious child.

It's all very complicated. And then when you're all together, there's the parent and it's and I think it overlaps with p d, CPT Z, it's really about being able to know what your needs are, et cetera. Because I think if you got trauma you suppress your needs. You already in touch what's going on.

Of course it's simplified, but you . So you have these parts that come up to, to try and do what's best. And I think when my Ms. Flo triggers me, especially because it's around my home and my sense of safety , there's parts which are like, we gotta fight, . Yeah.

We're under fight threats or flight. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. We're under threat, et cetera. And then it links to other things. I think there's another issue in Misho is when I get really angry, and I'm sure you can relate cuz people think you're being judgmental. Of course. Yeah.

And that ANGs me. It's like they're not trying to upset you. It's yeah, thank you. Thanks for that . It's really difficult, when you're being, when you're being quite triggered and someone's they're not trying to upset you. I'm like, I know they're not trying to upset me, there's a part of me that believes that and it's part of me is in control right now.

And she needs to, they need to be sued. And so I think in terms of how I cope with misophonia, I think there's two kind of toolboxes I have. Yeah. One is obviously on the spot, earplugs, white noise going to different room having different places to sleep, it's or even at the moment I spend half my time at my partner's house because yeah.

Cuz my neighbors might get up and walk and that's enough to really just exhaust me and send me over edge quite quickly. And I, I have to watch my, my, my substance use recovery. So it's a lot of stuff to balance. This is why I think is really a chronic condition, so there's that, and then there's the in between triggers and I think that's the most important and it's soothe yourself, understand what went on. And that's really heavy work because sometimes I remember things that I had maybe suppressed and stuff . And it's really, and it's also.

accepting that this is what's happening to you is this part of your life, and you just doing your, your best to keep yourself safe. Yeah.

[00:16:45] Adeel: these are like, so you're not in the middle of a not in the middle of a trigger. Do you, is this almost like a self-reflection meditation time that you carve out for yourself?

That you think about this stuff?

[00:16:54] Annie: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Or if I, yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:58] Adeel: And and then when you mentioned thinking back on like things you're suppressing, I don't, you don't have to get into it, but are they things like, you're those moments when you were a child, when you were being barged in on, or is

[00:17:08] Annie: it just kinda Yeah, exactly.

Gotcha. Yeah. Up, up until recently, my theory was like, this is so repressed, I did not want to access it. There's a reason why it manifests for my body, so I do not want to access it, but. Yeah, recently I moved into this new flat six months ago, and I love it. It's a great place. But yeah, there's, it's just very badly insulated, so I hear a lot of footsteps some, so I kind of noise.

Yeah. And this my worst trigger, and so it's, yeah, it forced me to really go deep into soothing my different in a, in inner children and parts and . Yeah. That's when I remembered and it was great, because I came to that conclusion that there's nothing wrong with what I'm feeling, I was really holding this belief.

You dig deep and you're like, oh, I had no idea I was holding this really harmful belief against myself, et cetera. Anyway, so

[00:17:54] Adeel: yeah, I was great. You're going, you were thinking about this harmful, some belief that you had of yourself, not related to your neighbors, but it's just part of the process.

Of thinking back is you start to think about stuff that it wasn't related to. Wow, okay. It's interesting. , I'm sorry, I'm asking so many questions cuz I'm like, I feel like I, I need to, take some time to do some of this as well. So this is really

[00:18:14] Annie: interesting to me. I'm sorry. Yeah, you can stop me to to clarify because I'm like in my own head about it, but I don't know how.

No, this is great. It comes across okay.

[00:18:22] Adeel: Yeah, no I'm letting you go cause you Yeah, you're, you explained it really well, but there, there's, I know that I realize there's so much behind it that I wanna clarify certain things just to Yes. So that I can picture myself maybe trying this as well.

So Yeah. This is really interesting. But it's interesting, yeah. That this obviously you know, you, you said you have, you love your place, but it's , it's got these triggers that are your worst triggers. It's just, that's not uncommon that a lot of us will, we have other sides to ourselves.

We like to live in certain types of places and certain types of environments. Yeah, sure. And we have this these other, but, and sometimes we'll like maybe. except that we'll have to deal with some of these triggers. It's this Oh my God. Yeah. Interesting balancing act that it's not, we immediately go into the into the woods or anything and live there forever.

[00:19:05] Annie: No, you're right. You are right. It's, I, you described exactly what I went through a month ago when you know it got really bad. And I, and yeah, I was like, I almost moved out and even though I just moved in . Yeah, .

[00:19:21] Adeel: I was, cause you've Yeah. You touch you so much. I was like, wouldn't I just move?

But we don't really do that. You, I was like, we, yeah.

[00:19:27] Annie: We, I would, yeah. Also moving with bring, you know what, I saw this flat, maybe $20 up from my street and it's, it is a former shop, so it's detached. It's completely detached. It's like a tiny house in the middle of the street. So I went to see, I was like, oh, this is great.

And a part of me was like, look, you need to acknowledge that. Yeah. The flats you live in right now, it's really nice. It meets a lot of your needs. Okay. Don't let them misophonia. , completely, drive you, listen to the other parts of yourself, which are like moving as stressful.

Yeah. The fat we are right now. Yeah, exactly. The flat I'm in right now is really nice. All these things. Yeah. I think sometimes also, even when I look for a place that would be me so friendly, I overlook over red flags. For instance, last year I bought a caravan for some reason.

[00:20:11] Adeel: . A lot of people did last year.

Yeah.

[00:20:13] Annie: Yeah, I know a lot of people. I know actually. I really just, I'm just like anyone else. And yeah. And I'm stuck with it, , if anyone wants to buy a caravan in Central SCO and hit me up the it yeah.

[00:20:22] Adeel: We'll get that message out.

[00:20:23] Annie: Yeah, . Yeah, no, you make a really good point.

Balancing act, and it was quite good for me. Good thing to realize that yeah, this is just something you have to deal with. And I'm really lucky that I can come stay at my partners, even though, I'm, I lived with her for several years prior to moving and part of the reason why I moved is because I had Mele triggers here, which were really bad.

, they got really out of hand. I got into travel with my neighbors. It was really bad, and it was a good learning curve for me cuz I realized also for my own safety, I need to also be able to handle my triggers. Because, I would just banging on the wall a lot and things like that.

And they were a little bit hostile. They had bit hostile to my girlfriend, my partner, even prior to me moving in. They're a little bit, and for all I know, they might have their own no noise sensitivities, I don't blame them, but they're really hostile . And I had visual triggers, I couldn't even see them.

It was really bad. And yeah, so it's quite funny because now I'm back here half the time, but because this isn't my main home, it's easier to deal with. It's really a, yeah, a balancing act. But I'm quite lucky that I can come back here,

[00:21:23] Adeel: Yeah. That's interesting. The ability to, yeah.

The ability to move around, whether it's even in your own home different rooms or different floors, or go to your partner's house. So just even if you don't go that particular day, just having that knowledge that you could, can help your brain and just, and, relax itself a little bit.

Yeah. Especially when, until you're banging on walls, but

[00:21:44] Annie: don't feeling. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No, don't do that anymore. And yeah, I just even avoid talking to my neighbors cause I'd be like, how are you settling in? And I'll be like, can you hear yourself? . Yeah. Yeah. And people have this notion of everyday normal noise and I'm like, I don't know what that is.

What is an everyday, and I think people get really defensive really every time you bring up noise. We're in this culture that people think, if I come to you with a noise complaint or I notice question, I'm judging you as anti-social or something. I'm like, especially in Britain, people just . Maybe in other place, maybe I'm being a bit stereotypical, but like people really freak out and I'm like, no.

When I lived in Edinburg and Baker City, my neighbors were redoing their flat and I bang, and I was working night shifts at the time. I remember coming home and thinking you, I had nowhere to go at the time, nowhere else. And I'm like, I go on to knock on their door and I'm like, hi, can I just ask you how long this is gonna be for?

There's noise. And it goes I have to work. I have, it gets really defensive and I can't understand, but I'm working night shift. And he goes I work night shift. It was really a battle. And I had to be like, I was like, look, I have no problems with you doing work. I do not want to stop you from doing your work.

but I need to go to sleep and if this is not going to stop, I need to know whether or not I have to make a plan to sleep somewhere else. And as soon as I said that, it was like, oh, okay. I had to do all this diffusing work. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And yeah. And that's exhausting,

[00:23:07] Adeel: yeah. No, yeah. The exhausting thing comes up too. It's just like we, we have to sometimes calculate in our heads is this worth even mentioning? Because it's like, what? What are the chances of this me being in this situation again with this person? Yeah. Exactly what, have I have to, then I have to think about all the words that I have to say and then like, how Yeah.

This and then you think about all the times that you've been dismissed and it's it's do I wanna roll the dice or No,

[00:23:33] Annie: Exactly. Yeah. And you're like, am I gonna feel really un unsafe in the middle of it as well for me? Yeah. Am I gonna, yeah. And this is, this might be like a rent, but this is what's really exhausting because, parts of me are like, I shouldn't have to live like this.

This is messed that. Why isn't there? I think why on houses better insulated and another, why can't I live safely in my community? Why do I have, why do I have to pay the price, , it's really annoying. Another part of me is like, what? It's not my fault that, that's all this against me.

And it shouldn't really fall on my shoulders to make search and effort. Sometimes I really despair, for me, sometimes, because my highest is my main issue and it's not because of the people I live with, because of the people who live next to me, but it's almost like they're my housemates cuz it feels so light and I can't talk to them.

And, sometimes I do unraveled a little bit and I'm like, we live in such a weird society where it's so individualistic and. , and I'm like, I think this is maybe my kind of history of maybe use, being stigmatized a lot and being a psychiatrist survivor, but I'm really like, God, people do not care.

There is no one cares about people with chronic mental health conditions. Like no one cares, , I'm really unravel, can really unravel and it's gone. Sometimes I have to go to the dark place and come back, it's just, yeah, it's really tricky. And I think that's is why, I know there's a lot of misho, community stuff going on, and I'm a bit reluctant to take part because I'm a history.

I'm really, the contradiction is, I'm really vocal and mental health activism and support is really important to me. But I'm also really reluctant to take part in anything quite visual, because I still carry some level of discomfort about being open about mental health. I'm like, yeah, no, it's not all it's cracked up to be

It's not that cool. And. and the community and such, yeah. I've had really bad experiences in small groups that were led by very dodgy doctors, oh, who just wanna have a, an entourage of mad people, really crazy shit. Oh, . Yeah. Yeah. And these things, yeah. They just pop up, at any moment.

And yeah, because I know there's this there's my minority people, but there's a problem that's there's great research in misophonia and such, but I'm also like, I'm always worried that there's this desire to really differentiate misophonia for, from the messier mental health conditions the ones that can get you in trouble, the ones that were criminalized and such.

And so I'm a little bit like, yeah, I don't know. Like I've been on a few message boards, which were. Slagging off other conditions and things like that. That's never the impression I got from your podcast, but from time to time, I know my like, psych trauma survivor rears its head and it's ugh, this is so sanitized.

Like the idea of a different brain or imbalance in the brain. I don't really like all that stuff. I think, and to me also, yeah, I'm a bit worried, if there's any kinda like protocol to diagnose MS and there's a treatment course and if your treatment resistant, what does it say?

What does that leave you? Things like that, I really think, yeah. And I'm like, especially if you have other conditions, other things going on and I dunno, but it might also be great. I really dunno. I think there's some really cool stuff about the study, about when you hear a noise, it feels like someone pushing you or something.

It feels like a movement. I'm like, yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot when I get triggered and that makes sense. So it's, yeah it's pretty exciting. It's pretty cool. Yeah. I think, I didn't realize how big it was, .

[00:26:49] Adeel: Yeah. No, it's a big community. There's a lot of stuff going on.

I, I totally understand. When I, I go to the conventions I've been going to the last few and I , my Spidey I try not to I'm very careful about what I, promote or believe or and so I can tell there's some opportunists, let's just say, cause there's a few Oh, absolutely.

Yeah. , it's so misunderstood. So it's, and it's, there's this interesting arbitrage moment where so many people are desperate for an answer. There's no clear answer. So people step in to try to fill the void. And so I try to be very careful of that. And and not, I'm just gonna wait for their real.

To come and however long it takes. I'm not gonna just jump on a bandwagon , because something's Yeah. Good.

[00:27:27] Annie: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I did mean that. I'm sorry. I

[00:27:29] Adeel: complete I no. I'm agreeing with you. I think I'm agreeing with you. Yeah. I think I'm hope, hopefully, yeah. Just agreeing what kind of, yeah.

I like your approach. Yeah.

[00:27:37] Annie: Oh, it's just me, but I agree with what you're saying and, yeah, you're right. And it's all these nice, so he plugs that pop up and suddenly the great people with mis

[00:27:44] Adeel: Yeah. Oh, the Instagram ads for, for ear plugs and

[00:27:47] Annie: stuff, right?

Yeah. And it's are you sure? Yeah. But there's so much suffering. I think for me because I came to misophonia, I was already so deep in the mental health kind of awareness and stuff that Yeah, but this is really me. This is my problem, not my problem.

This is my baggage that I would bring. Should be like, I don't trust anyone to, to, no, I dunno. I don't trust, I

[00:28:07] Adeel: dunno. Yeah. I don't I don't trust anyone by default, especially over the last year and a half. I've , but that's a whole other podcast. But yeah. Did did I'm curious let me like, jump around a little bit.

Did your did how did you tell, when you found out that, I had a name and whatnot, did you then go back to your parents? I'm curious, especially with your dad, like, how did you explain it to

[00:28:28] Annie: them? No. No. Okay. No, again think misophonia is something I'm only looking at now, because I think, as you mentioned a hierarchy.

I, I wouldn't say, I don't think there's a hierarchy. I don't think it's small or less valid or, present, but up until a couple years ago, I was really struggling with my substance use, unfortunately. , , you can't really look at your misophonia when you have that going on.

It was alcohol use. So

[00:28:55] Adeel: Was it medicating yourself, do you think, for the misophonia that has come up, but I'm just curious in your case

[00:29:01] Annie: if it was more general. Yeah I've heard other people for sure. That makes sense. I would, I'd say yes and no, because it's a coping strategy for me, for feeling safe, and feeling soothed and so it overlaps obviously, but yeah.

So yeah, obviously. Yeah. So it overlaps of the overall feeling. Yeah.

[00:29:23] Adeel: And was part of it, part of getting over that, the, what you were talking about the family system of identifying what was Yeah. Feeling vulnerable and talking to it. And

[00:29:32] Annie: so yes and no. I think for me, I really practiced harm reduction for a long time.

So I went to therapy. I worked for my share, but I didn't stop drinking because I needed it as a coping skill. just tried to do it as safely as I could. And then I reached that stage and I was like, okay, this is getting out of hand. Despite the harm reduction, I need to quit. I went to a and I worked for a few months and then it didn't work for me as just not program I I identify with at all.

And after that I eventually, after a few more relapses and really bad times I find a drug who, naltrexone. Something called a Sinclair method. It's quite controversial because it's it's harm reduction. So you still drink but you drink alongside a medication, which basically is an opioid blocker.

So it goes into your opioid system, your opioid receptor, opioid receptors in your brain because, if you drink a lot you have completely warned the max you can eat. And it basically, it re it rewires your brain. It's very layman terms. It's not that simple, but it's it's been a lifesaving drug for me.

And you, I sound really cliche and I say that cuz everyone say that when they talk about this drug, but overnight, my alcohol is completely changed. So you take that, it binds to your brain. You have a drink and you're like, I don't wanna drink . And I was ready for it because I had worked through.

everything I could work for, I did not want to drink anymore. I was aware that drinking was a coping mechanism that I needed. I had completely accepted it. I had no shame, no judgment, but I also was like, this isn't good for me. But I couldn't stop, cuz cravings, they're not just a physical thing, they're an obsession a distress.

They're absolutely unbearable. And this drug just really helps you. It really helps you. And I still take it and it's just been, it's just, it completely shattered any idea I had about recovery. And I'd been misusing alcohol since I was 12. It was a huge problem for me. I'd been in hospital because of it mentally.

So it's not for everyone, obviously, but it's a great tool and it's very hard to access . It's quite a battle to get it. Yeah. It's just my little plug cuz I think it's quite a nice thing to talk about.

[00:31:45] Adeel: Yeah. I don't think that's come up. I'm not sure before and, , yeah.

For anyone who might be having a similar experience. Yeah.

[00:31:50] Annie: And yeah, and it can lead to sobriety, and I think that's the end goal for a lot of people. But until you get, it can, removes that fear of relapsing, manageable, it's a very different approach. Yeah. So I'm really pro harm reduction.

No. I've had such experiences of, with addiction services and , it's just, yeah. And mental health services, they're really they're really separated as well.

[00:32:13] Adeel: Okay. I'm curious. Yeah. Do in terms of other, do you have a any creative outlets that you've I don't, a lot of people who've been through a lot, are maybe artists or have other artistic s I'm curious if you've done anything like that to or it could be related to. to trauma or not? I'm just curious if you have a Yeah. Creativity is also big with Ceph. Oh. So I'm just curious if you have any talents that we

[00:32:33] Annie: should know about.

I'm glad you asked , yeah I I make zines sometimes time, but my two kind main zines that they, on my Etsy one is about being a psychiatrist survivor and her, it influences me today in the way I approach well services and the other one's about my kind of early expenses of recovery.

And actually I am trying to make a z about Ms. Po and specifically how it's links to kind high, what I call high str . And I am completely stuck trying to write it. It's really difficult, which is why I should came onto your podcast. Cause I thought if I can't write a zine, at least I will have talked on your podcast a little

[00:33:09] Adeel: bit.

Yeah. So what do you mean by house trauma? You're at your stuck

[00:33:12] Annie: writing, so that's just the. A term I coin doesn't make sense to me. Yeah. It's just really linked my misophonia right now to, to the experiences I had growing up within my house. So the family dynamics, the unhappiness the everything.

And I also link it to, I think a lot of people have this kind of home wound, it, which comes from their upbringing, whether it was, and hide links to the sense of control I really want to have in my house. Parts of me really want that control. And I also kinda link this idea of, we all want to build that kind of perfect home, whatever that looks like, that, where we don't repeat the same harm that we've suffered, whether it's a family home, it's a little flat by yourself and.

it's about grieving that and accepting that you carry your baggage of you. And actually this idea of creating this perfect home is quite dangerous because you always kind, you're running away from something, you build in the shadow of what happened to you.

And I think the more you panic about repeating the same mistake, the more they're gonna follow you. So it's a lot about that and it's about, so I just, it's a therapeutic scene when I really can't explore for the first time. I'm like, okay, I wanna explore exactly what's linked to my mis triggers.

And another part of it is about how, a terrible, the housing situation is . Yeah. And how difficult it is to find the right type of housing. And I, especially if you live alone the flat I'm in right now I pay. , everything included. what I pay is more than what the money I get in, , and it's always been like that for me. And especially living in Ona and the people who lived there before me. They were a couple and it's bad. I know the people who move in with partners or friends when they don't really want to, it's just, it's all a big thing. So that's why I'm having a hard time writing it, it's in installation.

It's just, I don't understand how that's even Okay. where I live, right? Is a big house. So it's turning to several flats and it's like, why didn't you think about that , it is my kind of angry child self is it's political activist self. It's really pissed off at absolutely everything, social justice warrior,

It's like, why? Yeah. It's what? Because I think it's why might just stand I think, my other triggers around eating. Breathing and such, they're not as bad because I think I've just done a lot of healing in my interpersonal relationships and stuff, but making myself safe within my own home, having my adult self kind of embrace all of my boss and be like, okay, how are we gonna feel safe here?

And that's a whole other journey ahead of me, I think. And I'm also, maybe it's linked to growing a little bit older and thinking about precarity and money and such. I think it really overlaps and if, because I have a hard time keeping full-time work and right now I'm on benefits and such and now hast been influence on my Sure.

Housing. So there's a lot of that as well. It's like almost realization that, your my dreams of a safe house, which was mine. A compromised, by just the state of capital, capitalism and . Yeah. Things like that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

[00:36:21] Adeel: That sounds like a, housing shelter has been a it's one common thread for you since Yeah.

Since you were a child and you were just the family dynamic dealing with all kinds of weird stuff. But it's become the one, it's almost like a Yeah. I make it cliche, but it's almost, it could be a character in your zine, in, could be

[00:36:40] Annie: what not. Yeah. Mine. It's my concept.

Yeah. It's my concept album. Yeah. It is a character. Yeah, you're right. No, you're such a good listener. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:36:49] Adeel: Do you have a, by the way, do you have an Instagram? Oh I'll put, a link to a lot of these things in the show notes, but I'm assuming I feel like we, I don't spent a while since you first probably reached out, but I feel like you do have a.

Some accounts, social accounts online, that we, I, people can follow

[00:37:04] Annie: . Yeah. I've got on Instagram and there's not much going on there. But I would say go on my shop. This is my zines are Yeah, definitely. It's sorry. Truffles. Zines on se. Okay. Yeah. I'll give you the link of this thing.

Yeah. And my zines are quite cheap because they're not, they're zines, so they're not for profit. But if if you want a zine and you don't have the funds, just reach out and I'm happy. Send it to you.

[00:37:25] Adeel: That's absolutely, yeah. No, I recommend everyone. Yeah, just. Yeah. Bye by and support.

Yeah. Yeah. So I also have a I took down the stuff, but I have the Misa funny podcast app, which is not about treatment, it's just the the podcast of sounds. But there's a section for art by Misa phones, cuz I, I feel strongly that we should be supporting each other's businesses and art and whatnot.

So I'll definitely put a link, link in there and hopefully people can buy from there.

[00:37:50] Annie: Yeah, there's no misk there yet, but Yeah. No,

[00:37:53] Adeel: Myself. No, but yeah. Yeah. But yeah. But yeah, we should support each other regardless. Yes. That's what you meant. But yeah, 20 scene, that would be, especially yeah.

Especially after listening to this episode, I think people will be very intrigued as to what you have to say and think. Everyone, I think everyone sees a see, hears a bit of themselves in each episode and this is going to definitely be one of

[00:38:14] Annie: them. Yeah. So I was really surprised if I was listening to you.

I was like yeah. Nodding along yeah, totally . But yeah, I don't remember anyone saying, but I haven't listened to all of them, obviously, but I don't remember any, anyone saying, yeah, I've got a fear of being heard and that was such a big. Oof. Funny, . Oh yeah.

[00:38:30] Adeel: If anyone can relate.

No, if you're being very there is even an episode with one of the many Johns that I've interviewed, he his funniest started in his actually late early forties. So not like older than you. But it was his his second child was born, his wife was having postpartum and he had a younger child who was making a lot of noise.

So there was a lot of walking on eggshells in the house. And that's when, oh my God. There you go. Yeah, there you go. So there have been a few stories of that along, oh, over the course this podcast.

[00:38:59] Annie: So That is so cool. Yeah. I've been wanting to do a submission based as well about this, but I'm just not organized

But it's definitely, it's really great. It, it does. I think everyone's got specifics and I know my specifics is I'm like, oh, I don't trust anyone, but everyone's got specifics. But at the end of the day, I completely agree that we all have this lived experience and these stories. This start in coming, definitely. We have a lot in common. Yeah. Yeah. And it was great to listen to Yeah. And be like, yeah. I think the sense that other people are going through it, and I could see how healing and powerful there could be, if you feel really isolated. Definitely. do

[00:39:32] Adeel: you you listen to a lot.

How do you approach other than banging on, neighbors well, like how do you talk to your friends about it? do you calculate do I need to,

[00:39:41] Annie: I don't talk to anyone about it. Okay. I wait a very long time before I bring it up. The only person that really knows about it is my partner and she's great.

She's absolutely great about it. She would always be careful, she'd always, if I ask her to turn exams, she would always do it. She'd apologize, if she's sniffling if I'm really having a meltdown and she'll be very kind. She'll just feel really bad for me. It's been she'll, yeah. And she'll really show compassion. And

[00:40:07] Adeel: was it a pro, was there problem in previous relationships?

[00:40:10] Annie: It wasn't, it was never a problem. I was never with, people were dismissive. Or if they were dismissive about everything about me. That was different.

It's still just been Yeah. the wrong match. Yeah. But no, I've always been, yeah, I've had problems before with partners because I didn't wanna sleep in the same bed , and they always stick it the wrong way, because of their breathing or whatnot. And so yeah, that, that's been a bit shitty.

Or if I had a really bad reaction, if I would maybe stop punching myself or whatever. Sorry about that. , gosh, yeah. It's not maybe upsetting to disclose to some people, but, if it was really bad a few years ago, I, some would be a bit like, yeah, you clearly didn't want me here because you're having your meltdown.

, and, whether my current partner, I think the strength is we have very similar issues, and so she, she can sit through it with me. , if she can't, she'll just be like, I can't support you with this as supposed to blaming me, . Yeah. I think last time I had people who were dismissive, I was quite young, . Okay. But I can really advocate for myself. I just don't take shit . Yeah. Yeah.

[00:41:08] Adeel: No, that's a good, that's a good place to be. So you advocate for yourself, but you don't talk to about your friends with it. So is it mainly just in day to day is you just kind advocate for yourself in terms of wanting, just if somebody's doing construction or whatever, just have 'em turn it down and say what you need to say and then get out there. Yeah. .

[00:41:31] Annie: Yeah. It's a lot better with people, I'm really surprised Now I can eat. That's quite close. It's very rare. Yeah. I can, because I know she will respect me and it's taken a long time. And I think it's just that trust to her and it's helped me cope in general.

I think, there's neuroplasticity is a great thing. , and I think this is what's happening. My highest triggers. I, it's hard because I cannot get away from the triggers and how am I supposed to heal if I'm bombarded constantly, they're scoping and there's, then there's been constantly bombarded and I think that's my main beef with my

[00:42:06] Adeel: situation.

Yeah. And you're kinda a stalemate with your neighbors too, who are not going to help you and in your. That's gonna,

[00:42:13] Annie: yeah. And realistically, a part of me knows they're not gonna stop. They only, they're doing, all they're doing is walking, they're not doing anything wrong. Apart from that, they're really quiet, nice people.

Yeah. So it's my issue. And because one week they were on holiday. Oh, it must have been amazing. And that was a different Yeah. Oh my God. I, yeah. , I was a completely different person. , , . was like, oh, I have energy. And so yeah. And I think that's again, I think I'm trying to keep calm and cope and just hope that at some point I'm gonna make, reach a point when I can have appropriate housing.

. So I can start to heal and build up a more resilience, I think to me, like I have this theory about misophonia tanks. You have two tanks, right? And they fill up every time you get triggered. And if it, they fill up with your coping skills. So one of the tanks is your personal coping skills.

Meditation? . Earplugs. And the other tank is what is the community doing for you? Your partners, your neighbors, and the tank that's always full is the personal coping tank the tank of whatever people is doing for you. It's not really that full . And you are like parched for, you're like, I need this to fill up, to feel safe, trauma.

And healing isn't just about what you do it's about what other peoples do for you. And for me it's yeah, it's my issue right now.

[00:43:28] Adeel: Yeah. No, it's an interesting way to, yeah. That's a great, it's an interesting way to frame it. It's yeah, we can, I think we all talk about our personal coping mechanisms, but there's this whole other outside world, the external side, which we can't control.

And if we're not getting, if we're not feeling safe, Around it. If we've Yeah, Mr. Is making us feel threatened, then there's only so much we can do , there's only so much better. Exactly know.

[00:43:54] Annie: Yeah. And how do you decide, how do you decide what other people should do for you? How do they decide that, this is a conversation we cannot have because this is just not the systems we live in.

Everyone's just trying their best. You're right. To live their own life. So there's also that, I'm not just blaming people around me. I'm also aware that this isn't the system we live in. We don't live in that kind of community setup, . Where everyone's educated and self-aware and what have you.

Yeah. Self, I'm also awareness,

[00:44:22] Adeel: Yes. Self-awareness. That has come up a lot. Yeah, absolutely. A any yeah, we're come. Yeah, we're coming up to an hour. We don't necessarily have to stop right now , but I definitely am curious if you have anything else you wanted to share.

Yeah, you have a lot of very original insights that I don't hear that often so this has been amazing already, really. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Is there anything else that, I dunno, do you want to tell people that they may or may not have heard before about Muon or any great realizations that you, more realizations that you've had

[00:44:51] Annie: No, no more realizations. I'm good. Yeah. Yeah. No. I really, I don't think so.

[00:44:57] Adeel: And people can, would you mind if you, I know I'm gonna put links to, in the show notes to, to your stuff, but I've heard a, people have come on the show and then they've heard from other people who've been on the show or heard from the audience people listening.

Do you would you mind if people just reached out to you? Maybe I know there's a lot of people in the UK too, just kinda ask questions or whatever. Yeah. Okay,

[00:45:13] Annie: cool. I'm very happy. I'd love for people to reach out to me. Oh, if you have zines to send me as well, I'm happy to swap zines.

[00:45:20] Adeel: Yes. Kyle I know Kyle in new Orleans. He writes, he's an art teacher. He write, he writes zines. He's got an Etsy too. So yeah.

[00:45:27] Annie: Yeah, we all have ets now, all the zine makers , because that's how it is right now, these days. Yeah. No I don't think so. I know some people said that the dogs cricket them and he really like panic cuz my, because my dog, yeah.

That's completely only my, my, I think my dog is very anxious and sensitive to sound and Oh. My partner. Yeah. And so we totally mirror each other. Yeah. So there's a sound like freeze, and we have to listen to it, like, where's this coming from? ?

[00:45:55] Adeel: Is your dog able to kinda recognize when you're maybe going through an episode or a meltdown and come and try to help you?

[00:46:03] Annie: That's a whole other topic, but yet he recognizes it. And he's not a therapy dog. Yeah. We just phrased that. He, yeah. He hates it. But it's been quite insightful for me actually. It's been a good mirror to what's going on for me, and it's been a good way to access, access this very vulnerable part of myself and being like oh my God, you're not okay.

Are you all right? As opposed to, it happens on such subconscious level that you judge yourself instantly. You don't even know you're judging yourself. You're just mad. And then it takes a lot of work to kinda. Some of the stuff I did when I was doing transactional analysis and ego states was using teddy bears a lot.

So if you look at a teddy bear, , they just have this kind non-judgmental, for me anyway, I have a lot of different bears I use and it's just, if it's safe to do get in touch with this vulnerable side of you that is scared and soothe it if it's safe to do so for you. Sometimes it's not safe, not everyone or some, it's not for everyone.

Absolutely not. But that's my only counter advice, it's very cheesy,

[00:47:01] Adeel: but no, I, it's, no. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's, I'm sure that'll help a bunch of people. I have dozens of stuffed animals in my house with two daughters right now, so maybe I'll take a look at them in a new way.

but,

[00:47:12] Annie: . Yeah. It's different when you're a parent. I think I heard, I'm not a parent, so they don't mind. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, cool man. But yeah, that, that thing, no, I don't think I have anything else. Do. Yeah.

[00:47:20] Adeel: Yeah. That's, yeah. A any of them, let me say yeah. Thanks for coming on. This been super interesting.

I will, I'm gonna immediately go to your right now and check things out. But yeah. Yeah. Thanks for coming on. Oh, thanks. Fantastic.

[00:47:32] Annie: It was it was a pleasure. Thank you. Thank

you.

[00:47:35] Adeel: A really fascinating conversation where I learned a lot. And thank you for sharing so much of your. If you like this episode, don't forget to leave a quick review or just hit the five stars wherever you listen to this podcast.

Hit me up on email@hellomisapodcast.com or go to the website and to missa podcast.com. It's easiest maybe to even just send me a message on Instagram or Facebook at music podcast and or on send dm Twitter show. Support the show by visiting Patreon patron com music podcast, music as is by mob.

And until next, pushing new.