[00:00:00] Adeel: Why don't we just roll into it. We're into it already. I'm not gonna edit this one as much cause I want it to be even more organic than

[00:00:05] Colin: That sounds risky and dangerous for me. But

[00:00:08] Adeel: so yeah.

Maybe more on that. So you saw, yeah, you asked, so you asked, you told me about some TikTok channels, so were you, were, is this been, like, has this been creeping up on you more and more like the misophonia with the whole COVID and all

this

[00:00:22] Colin: stuff done? It's super interesting because I think Covid has definitely it's shown a light on things that I knew.

I don't know if you actually remember this, the whole reason. So folks who don't know Ideal and I worked together, we are former colleagues. We are in the same industry. We've worked at the same company in San Francisco, geez. Adeel 12 to 10 ish years ago.

[00:00:39] Adeel: It's like 2009.

Yeah. Is

[00:00:41] Colin: when I started at, that's when you, that's when you joined. Yeah. And I stayed in the San Francisco orbit for another year and a half or so. I think I actually became aware of the term misophonia from you. You and I were in one of those. Hellish software engineering, open office environments.

Open office. Yeah. And I actually can't recall what the trigger was. I don't know if it was you and I where I talked about some sort of annoying noise. I think I had, we had a coworker. I won't. I will. It's Joey, if you remember Joey. Joey was fantastic coworker, but, oh, I thought it was

[00:01:07] Adeel: somebody else, but Oh, I will.

Yeah. Let's talk about joy.

[00:01:09] Colin: He used to eat, he used to eat apples very loud at his desk. And I've, I know from just the fact that's an awful sound that's a major trigger. Apples in particular, like a top five awful food. Next to hear someone next, that's his worst thing. Yeah. , you probably hear your next door neighbor, like through the walls.

If you have Misa foreign. Yeah.

[00:01:25] Adeel: My, my next door neighbor, coincidentally here, he's his, that's his main. So it's like I living next. Yeah. So he came on a podcast season. You, and that's his thing. Yeah. Anyways, continue.

[00:01:35] Colin: Yeah, Joey so I think I was in the kitchen chatting with you and I was just mentioning it.

It's just I felt comfortable enough to mention oh gosh, like I don't want to yell at Joey, but he's just a aggravating me so much. And you actually said, Hey, I, this is 2009. So you, you said something like I have a thing called misophonia. I think, you, I think at that time you had maybe talked to a doctor of some sort who maybe floated it to you.

No

[00:01:57] Adeel: I somehow found it on, I found an article online some can article that was that was, yeah, just before I think what I talked to you, so that was pretty new to this as well.

[00:02:06] Colin: So you mentioned it and you talked a little bit about your experience and I just remember just thinking yes.

This is what happens to me. It is not just that. I find the sound of your chewing gross. It is that I find it. fight or flight. You need to, yeah, I need to get out of here. It's atrocious and awful. And that was when I first heard the word and first knew that this was probably a thing that is not just me being insane.

And this is at this point, an incre, like I've listened to enough of your episodes to know that almost everyone has this moment, right? Where yeah, someone finally gives them the term and it's the heavens open up and you're like, oh my gosh. It's legitimate and it's real. And my mom is not right for calling me, insane

we'll get into that as well later again. Yeah. And I started going back, at that time, over the next couple of years I started becoming hyperaware of if it, is it happening and is it really to that level? And I describe it as I, I took some notes. I took like an interesting sheet of notes on your thing to try to make sure I had some things to talk about.

But I think like the buildup is something where sometimes I will have it and it will be my best ability to mitigate is to just tell myself that it's happening. Make it be more of a slow ramp, and then it might get to a point where I have to leave and I'm much better now, as a 38 year old person who's been aware of this for however many years that it's happening.

But I still am very in that com. My common is that I go from zero to one to 10, I'm incredible house trier. I'm trying, yeah. Yeah. My Bruce Banner becomes the Hulk . And I, it happens all the time, and I'm just trying to become hyper aware of it since you put that term in my ear, told me that misoni is a thing you suspect you have.

It was really helpful. And then I started dialing it back. So I actually don't have a, a evil villain origin story where I know that it was the first thing that happened. When I think back to my home life now, I'm an only child, so I grew up only children for folks who are, they tend to be closer to adults and closer to their parents, they can talk to people a little bit more.

You also end up in the very boring home social situation of watching a television show with your mom or your dad, more often than someone I think who has similar, or at least that's what I put together. So like my mom's breathing, out of her nose was an early trigger that I had to go back and stumble into.

Wait, the, I felt so atrociously frustrated and angry about this, and it's because of this thing. Yeah. And then I, another big one was I had a roommate in college who ground his teeth when he slept. And at the time I just remember thinking hell, it's a, it's an awful sound.

Of course, it's a thing. But then I, when I really think about how I feel when I hear the sound, if it's not the same as, oh gosh, my roommate's grinding his teeth, it's more holy. Yeah, I wanna murder because teeth are grinding. So that was really helpful. And I think that, for you to stay, have stayed attached in the community and become a pillar in the community.

I have watched it occasionally in blips. So to get back to the anecdote we were trying to start with you had posted something on Facebook about misophonia to someone recently, this is like within the last two months, I think. And I had just turned into one of those weird old people who watches tos , I don't create content on TikTok, but I watch it.

Yeah. And I actually love the app. The algorithm figured me out really quickly. Like you are a dad who's like a, social rights ally, but you also this random of comedy. It figures out pretty quickly. But it, dropped on me a couple of misophonia videos including one or two where you take snippets from the podcast to throw 'em in a video.

So I throw on this Facebook post, Hey, a deal and folks, there's this great resource out there on TikTok and it, I think there's a podcast associated with it. and you were like, yeah. Is it this one? , it's a link to your, to this podcast that I'm speaking right now. So here I am, I, there's a little bit of a, embarrassment there, but I just thought it was really great to hear and that's how I stumbled into, so now in the last couple of months, I've gone a little bit through the back catalog and it's been super validating again, like anytime I've spoken to someone like this once someone else knows what it is or you describe it, it's not everyone that will, they'll be like, oh, you don't like sounds or you don't like things.

It, I was like, it's definitely more than that, but at least you appreciate me right now. But to hear the stories that your other guests have told it is super validating and there's a lot of similarities. This of course, and everyone knows. Yeah. Which help us understand that it is in fact a real thing.

It's not like Gabe thinks that chewing is bad and Colin thinks that leaves creaking are bad. It's literally, there are very similar triggers. They're very similar emotions and it's been super, super excellent. Yeah. That's great, man.

[00:06:11] Adeel: That you were able to, yeah. That you were able to relate and Yeah.

A lot of us are it's weird how it's a so many people, so many more people have it than I think realize it, but it also feels like a small world , where you can share a link and it happens to be .

[00:06:25] Colin: There has to be, so I love it. I love it. There has to be something too, because it's not a term that people know that community has to be larger because of just the way people describe their idiosyncrasies. You're like, this sounds so much similar to what I'm doing. Have, has anyone ever said misophonia to you or miso, kinesia, yeah. So I definitely have triggers that are sounds and I split my triggers into three categories generally.

And I think, like I call 'em, the hard triggers are the sounds. So chewing, breathing tapping. Clicking, yeah. Those are things that just can build up over time. what'll happen is I'll be in an environment, there'll be a sound like that, and I may not notice it right away. So an example of that would be, the way my daughter who's four is playing with her play kitchen, there's a lot of clanging of fake pots and pans in that situation.

And it won't bother me for minutes on an end, and then all of a sudden it will bother me, it will be like someone cut to a nerve and I'll have to, I'll have to leave, cause I don't wanna, blow up and yell at a four year old. Yeah. Let alone my daughter. Yeah. Those and I just, something

[00:07:21] Adeel: do you, are you thinking about it and then it's like it cuts the nerve?

Or is it look, are you trying to repress it and then it cuts the nerve? Or is it just suddenly you just It's,

[00:07:30] Colin: I think it's just, I think it's just that I have an I was gonna call it an ability, but I think it's more of a bad habit of focusing in different places. And I think that's potentially related to this.

So if I'm doing a task myself, say I'm at the computer or doing something in the kitchen myself, , I won't be aware of what, the ambient noise or the other noise that's happening, and then all of a sudden I'll hear it and it will draw me into it. And I think these things got worse. They it, it was exacerbated by becoming a dad.

So I have two, two kids. I have a seven-year-old son named Bennett and a four year old daughter named Lila. They are great. They're both also Bennett more so than Lila, but they're both contributors to my triggers as a lot of parents have said. Uhhuh, . But there's another thing that happens when you become a parent where you become hyper-focused to these sounds.

Part of keeping your kid alive is listening for them, screaming. So I now for the last, legitimately seven and a half years have this notion of if I hear a sound in the other room, it immediately snaps my attention to it. Did someone fall off a shelf? And I, we tried so hard.

My wife Susan and I tried. Yeah. , right? , my wife Liz and I tried so hard to not be helicopter parents and I don't think that we are. , but this is a part of my brain that I can't turn off and I can't turn off the immediate response, which is are you okay? And now I'm very focused on what your thing is, and it definitely ruins my ability to get my tasks done.

And we talked at the top of this a little bit about, quarantine and the pandemic. It, you, everyone's in the box together now. So that is happening 40 times a day instead of three. And that it's a real thing. So I think when I talk about the Pots and Pans episode, it's more I hear a sound and now I'm focused on it.

And that's different from other things. So when I see everyone, a lot of loved ones of Misa phones have this problem where they are, they live, we love them, and they are our triggers or, the causes of our triggers. , my wife and her family, most of her family are all very loud eaters.

By, by their nature. I watch them because I have to, I've watched and focused and zoomed in my eyes on the mouth. And there's an element of your mouth staying open. Were you also

[00:09:20] Adeel: mimicking, because you know how a lot of us try to mimic the sound, mimic the motion and sound over the other people person will, do you

[00:09:28] Colin: do any of that?

That's not so much a go-to for me. I've read about that and I've tried to think about, I've tried to think about, or I've tried to try it, I think cause there's now a

[00:09:35] Adeel: kind of a brain basis for it. There was some research earlier this year, but so I'm always extra. No, I'm extra curious about if people do that.

Oh,

[00:09:41] Colin: I didn't know the sci, I didn't know the science of it. But I know that's a strategy folks can use. I just, I never, when I'm in the moment really have the ability to think that. Yeah. I have been, the Hulk isn't too loud. I have smart . Sorry. The Hulk is not smart. No. Bruce Banner is brilliant doc doctor book.

The Hulk is not that smart. So I will try to get out ahead of certain things and I there are certain things that I just try to live in it and just get through it certain times. So an example of that is eating dinner with family, kids making, eating noises. It is not right or reasonable, I think for me to be yelling at someone for something that they're, I know they're within the reasonable range of making food noises.

There's a difference between, you are smacking your lips like a fool and you need to be told not to do that. And I am having a thing. And that has been the real struggle, I would say over the last five years, I've gotten better at being able to just try and live in it or leave or take myself out of the situation.

Yeah. Yeah. The other thing I'll try to do with triggers that I know are gonna come is get out in front of it. Good example of that is being on the couch watching a show with my wife. She might get up to get a. , I will listen intently to try and figure out what snack she's getting to, to prepare myself.

Yeah. Yeah. Where are we going? Are we going with crunchy cereal? Are we grow going with a snapping fruit? Please don't let it be, gosh, pretzels something like this. And what I'll do is I actually can help myself. I think this is like a Pavlov's dog sort of situation.

I will ask, what are you eating? . And I used to not be able to do this in a voice that was reasonable. So it was very like, angry voice. What are you eating? I'm about to be really pissed at you and I want you to know that you eating is the cause. And now it's been more of like a, I'll wait until they start.

I'll see if the sound is bothering me. Yeah. I'll ask them what they're eating and it will basically, it, it does something to me where it essentially confirms the situation. Now, 10 years ago in the relationship with my wife, this was a thing where I would. Not have that tactic and I would, I had less of an ability to sit there Yeah.

And sit in it. So there'd be a lot of me glaring at her. Yep. And before I actually had a real good conversation with her where she was like, here's a thing, remember a deal? He told me it's real. Here's a thing that happens that I have. Yeah. Before I could even have that conversation, it'd be a lot of me glaring at her.

Yeah. Cuz that's really be, before I had intuited that what I'm going through is really intense and different and she has no way of knowing that it's habit. And to her credit, she has I think, become much more aware of that. She's even said things sometimes to our kids Hey, be careful making noises right near daddy about like that.

Yeah. Yeah. And so she, although she is still probably most common trigger for me, she is also a big ally and that she's aware that it's real and, , we're not gonna get away from it. She wants to eat that thing or she wants to do that thing. Yeah. And it's gonna happen. And that's real.

Yeah. And that's fine. Yeah. But I have found that the ability to say what are you eating? And it, it prepares me for it. It allows me even to have a, oh, I might get something. So what I can do is, I can eat a snack and now I'm not thinking about the noise she's making.

I do this thing where I start making worrying about the noise I'm making.

[00:12:35] Adeel: Yeah. Yeah. Should divert your attention and, yeah.

[00:12:39] Colin: Yeah. So those I was talking I think briefly before the cutout on my computer there about the different types of triggers. So I think those are like my hard triggers, the sounds and the more typical things.

I have strange sounds that will trigger me as well, like ambient noise, like sound of electric. , I don't know if you've had, you know that kind of buzzing oftentimes when you have these videos where it's do you have young ears? Can you hear this high pitch sound? ? I can still hear those sounds and they are annoying.

When I was a kid when we were kids, you used to be able to go into someone's house and know that the television was on. And as a kid, I would describe

[00:13:10] Adeel: this Yeah. Is that high thing.

[00:13:12] Colin: Yeah. Yes. I would describe the superpower to my friends and be like, oh, I know whether or not someone's TV's on.

And at the time I thought, eh, that's just cool. I know how these things work. And I believe now that, that is just part of the wiring that has led me to be in the situation where I'm super sensitive to sounds. So I have u sb plugs to charge my phone and my headphones and things like that on my.

when the battery gets close and the iPhone stops charging, the high pitched whale comes out. And it's super lightweight. No one I've ever been in a room with knows what I'm talking about. I'm like no. The electric wine that's happening right now you don't

[00:13:45] Adeel: hear this. Some chargers do that.

Yeah. That's, that is true. Yeah.

[00:13:49] Colin: Yeah. And it's, it's not, it's definitely, it's not like I have s hearing because when people speak to me, sometimes I have to ask 'em to repeat quite a bit. It's just dialed into

[00:13:56] Adeel: these high, sometimes it's on purpose that Yeah. But

[00:13:59] Colin: Yeah. And then and then I've also found that even silence, like true silence can be a trigger.

So I grew up in I, I grew up in like the subro suburban, rural area. Where we would have. Summer nights where the window, it, it's too hot for the windows to be open, but the air conditioner's not kicking on and it's just quiet. Yeah. And that becomes like an intense, like it's too quiet.

Yeah. So I like to hear, I like to hear some ambient outside noise. I sleep with a fan now. , use those, like that white noise to, to help me go to sleep. So I haven't really stumbled into the world of white noise machines or using sound generators. I feel like turning a fan on or having a window open.

Yeah. I live in a city now, so I live in Philadelphia, so there's city noise happening and it's happening far off enough. I actually don't mind, the ambulance in the distance, the police, the, the police in the distance. Yeah. Helicopter in the distance. That's all great.

That's like a, it's like a coffee shop scene. Yeah. It's a much to my brain, but the silence can be something that is somewhat triggering as well. I've noticed that you have a few folks that you've talked to recently that talk about how they're night owls as well, and that's something that identifies with me.

I stay up late I've. I used to stay up late and work on projects a lot. It was a lot of time when I would get, same year some projects done. Now I do the same thing. Mostly I do a lot of media consumption more than creation, in those late hours now, but it's the alone time that I can get during that.

Yeah. When you have, during that period of time, they go to bed

[00:15:17] Adeel: pretty early, so it's like after that, a, you have to kind be quiet not to wake him up and it's the second time to just decompress and then yeah, just get all your own personal projects, hack, hacking projects done so or yeah, I've got my, now I've got a bu a bunch of stuff subscribed on YouTube to, to learn stuff or just, watch craft.

Yeah, it's the time to do it.

[00:15:36] Colin: I've done the same thing recently. YouTube has surprised me so much. YouTube University has changed. Yeah, it's changed. Yeah. Yeah. It's changed from the platform silly videos to how I actually learn how to repair my car. Yeah. And solve all sorts of home problems.

Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. The third category of triggers that I have though, I think falls more into the miso, esia, department. Yeah. Which, it would be things like adjacent to eating the scraping of the spoon, oh, you don't want a bowl? Could the move

[00:16:01] Adeel: the wiggling of a side of

[00:16:02] Colin: miskin?

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. No, we don't have a diagnosis. My, my son may be on the ADHD spectrum. Yeah. He may also just be, just a really rambunctious guy. But he's got a lot of those ticks and those fidgeting behaviors. , I bless him, but I lock in on these things. Right away. And then can't leave them. So it mentally makes arduous like the act of reading stories to him at bedtime sometimes. Because he is way, his way to dial in and concentrate is to fidget with something in his hand or wiggle his foot, wiggle his, his leg. And I need none of that. To happen. Meanwhile, he'll have a weird trigger that I'm holding the book wrong, so we're just both two people trying to enjoy other's company for the the last half hour of the day. Maybe just running outta steam and burning through our energy, doing.

Yeah. And a time like that, when a lot of my top coping mechanisms are just get myself out of the situation or focus on something else it's not right. So I try and to do that in my mind, like I'm trying to be present here right now with you. This is what I want. Yeah. So I'm not gonna walk away.

Also, you're not doing anything on purpose, so I'm not gonna walk away. , I've tried to, so my son is seven, so I've tried to educate him and I've said things like daddy has a thing where some noise is really bothering So you chewing your tongue near my ear while you hug me is offline let's not do this.

Yeah. Yeah. And he's, he's old enough to understand that he generally respects that, I think, which is great. But he's seven, so he forgets course, there's a new thing that, that frustrates me. So I really do feel like it families, they've gotten so much of my stares and my glares and my anger and my frustration, and they understand that it's a thing, but no one really knows how to like outwardly help.

Yeah. One, one of the things that people try to do, if, like Liz will do this, she's aware that she's gonna eat something loud and that might bother me. She thinks it's helpful to do that te activity slower. Yeah.

[00:17:53] Adeel: I've heard that recently too. Not does. Oh

[00:17:56] Colin: my gosh. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

I've decided, like we, we've talked about this, right? I, we just talked about this. I use this mechanism, I start the event in my mind by asking you something like, what are you doing? What are you eating? And I've essentially, I've un I've opened the tank of energy I have to give to this.

If you make this take longer, I am going to, it's going to get worse. So yeah. It is almost better for you to just mash through that bag of chips and get it done with Yeah. Rather than ah, oh, I won't do it. I'm sorry, sorry, audience. But rather than ah, eh, and like slowly go through the chip. It's just, but explaining this nuance.

I understand why people in other in Lisa phone's life, tell them that they're crazy. Because if the things I've figured out are maybe gonna work and they're weird Hey, don't make sound, but if you do make sound, do it real fast. Or Hey, don't move your legs around in a way that I also do, cuz I have those things.

How do you not sound insane? do you not sound right? Just randomly nuts to people that you try to explain this to or

[00:18:52] Adeel: senile or something. Yeah. ,

[00:18:56] Colin: right? Oh, I think Colin is losing his mind. Yeah. Yeah. I think that he's losing his mind. So I you and I know each other from the San Francisco tech startup scene.

I lived that life for a few years and then moved back to the east coast of Philadelphia. And I've worked from home, I've worked for companies, remotely and things like that. I'm at a company right now. We a company called Arc Web. We do software consulting in the Philadelphia area, and it's a really nice company because people seem to respect each other quite a bit.

. , which is useful. We still have that open office floor plan. That's not been a, much of an issue here in the last year and a half, let's say. Yeah, but we did a thing during the pandemic where we were encouraging people at the, on the team to do a personal demo. So we would often do project demos on our weekly meetings.

And we did these personal demos and people opened up about, amazing tragedies that they've, overcome. I had led a very privileged life. I've been really lucky in that regard. , but I did have a slide on my presentation that was like, who is Colin? . And there's things on there he's an atheist, he does this, he's into that.

And one of them was, a suffering melophone and I put a link in the slides Yeah. To, the article on it. And interestingly, you go through all these things that you think are quirky and interesting about you, and then you stick this one in there. People paused me in the middle of that to ask about it.

One person had heard about it and I, used the, I said something like, it was a meet opening and an opportunity for me to say something like, if you ever see me get really tight or leave a meeting or do anything like that, know that this might be it. And if my cross to bear is, that sounds bother me sometimes I think I'm really decently set in this life.

. much as it is sometimes, true fight or flight. But I do think having that ability or that kind of understanding in a network that. , this is a real thing. Or at least you're telling us it's a real thing and it's something that you need, to take your own personal accommodations for.

That's been really helpful. And the way that was received helped me do things like tell, extended family or friends out on the street where previously you just wouldn't come up or I would just leave or Irish goodbye situation. You can yeah. Noise. Noise is getting bad.

Gotta leave. See it, . See it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I think that having that has been, a nice eyeopener. So think that we're, I could dovetail that into the pandemic has been good in that way cuz it's encouraged a few people in the right context to share the things that they're, dealing with.

And that's definitely a thing that I've been dealing with over the, the course of this time it's been a little bit more highlighted. Yeah, dude,

[00:21:06] Adeel: that's fascinating. I mean I, we were not, we haven't been in touch too much since the the old context is so I had no idea that this a was, it's just creeping up and you're actually now, I think it's amazing.

You're like identifying it. You're it's not part of your identity. You're like being more open about it and Yeah. People are, this is what we need more of and yeah. That's, I think people listening hopefully will think, will get some tips here on how to introduce it in the work environment where they're apps to get triggered a lot.

That's and that'll, that's not just for you. It's gonna help other people who might be Yeah. Who might be suffering in silence. So I think it's it's win-win for society.

[00:21:37] Colin: Yeah. I think that's, I think that's a good point. I there are, we've already talked about the notion of you, you've gotta find this word of what this is before you might even realize I have this this is what's going on with me. So rather than hiding it and trying to mitigate it all myself, even though I've just said a lot of my coping me mechanisms are like bracing and dealing with it. Mentioning it or putting that word out there, or describing what it is, or at least teeing up someone to ask you.

, what the heck is misophonia that you just said? Yeah. That you have is really I think a really nice thing to help people identify that it's real and it's going out. And then you can say things like look, there's not just me telling you that this exists, but here's an article you can read about it.

It's legitimate. Here's a podcast where someone's going through and people talk about their experiences and you identify with them. I think you had a recent guest and I forget her name, but she mentioned one of the things she does is in an icebreaker situation, she says I have this thing.

I hate noises that are cracking and doing and like this, these things trigger me. So whenever she's been a context to introduce who she is, she talks about what, who she is, what she does, and that, hey, these things just blow me up. Yeah. And that she mentioned in on the episode that essentially gave her a license later on in that interaction to say something like, can you stop tapping?

Can you do these things right? And I think that category of thing, it normalizes it, but also if, unless you're with like, people that don't care about other people, which we all know from recent events exist, . But if unless you're with, someone who just outright would disregard that it sets, it, it preps it up, if it's a thing.

I have found that the amount of sleep I get, the mood that I'm in really varies how and all that. Yeah. Oh it all affects it. So I can tell, on a day where the family's all at home and we haven't had lunch, but we should have had lunch an hour ago, something like that.

I can see all the typical things that happened to the kids not regulating their mood. And I might be chastising them like you guys gotta eat food. You're old enough that you need to know, you know where the snacks are. You can go do this yourself. And then while I'm doing that, being angry, dad, I'm like, wait, you're getting bothered by everything because.

It's, you're hangry. It's a category or I'm hangry tired. And that is, yeah. Yeah. We use the word hangry all the time. We don't, my wife and I don't use it on ourselves enough, but we should , . And when any of those kind of levels are high my triggers for, misophonia and miso, kenia are just much, more live wires.

Do

[00:23:51] Adeel: you find that also if you're if you're working or you're, if you're coding and you're trying to get your, you're trying to debug something or you're trying to get your tests to work and it's you need to take a break, but during that break, it's like you cannot be triggered cuz you're still thinking about the work issue.

Yeah. Yeah. And so even if you're well slept and and well fed it's hard to yeah. It's just brain management is not a strong suit at that point. You're, you can't, you're focused on something and then you're stressed and so you're extra triggered.

Yeah. At least I am.

[00:24:18] Colin: Yeah. No, no way. Ab absolutely. I think actually one of the things that I use, I think I've just always done this personally, but I think it's become somewhat of a, not so much a coping mechanism and that I'm, remediating, but like at a preventative measure is I actually do a lot, and this is also coming from being an only child and things like that.

I do a lot of talking to myself out loud. , and walking through, talking through problems has

[00:24:37] Adeel: to do with the senility. So yeah, it's

[00:24:39] Colin: definitely related. My mind is going, someone will let's say this, they'll think my mind is going before it is because of all of these things. But that doesn't mean that it isn't, that it won't.

I I commute when I do go to the office, I commute by walking. I've got like a 20 minute, five minute walk through Historic Philadelphia. I am chat. I realize that I'm chatting with myself while I'm doing it. Not out loud, not like a wild, crazy person on the street, but just thinking through a thought by talking to myself.

This kind of like solo dialogue. Yep. It's how I saw problems. You mentioned the notion of coding, doing software, being in the solution to a problem. It helps me keep that thought going and live and bubbling. Make sure that's going. I've actually found that when I am in that mode, I can push off, you know how I mentioned the notion earlier of not recognizing a sound trigger Initially.

I can get myself in a zone where I don't notice things, and it can be really helpful. Yeah. Preventatively. Yeah. However, if there is a big trigger or an interruption, it's like the , I've lost all concentration and I've lost everything, and getting it back is not a thing.

I think software engineering, the, as a trade is sometimes creative and anyone who has one of these creative endeavors where you have to strike while the iron is hot, or you have to commit work while the juices are flowing. This as something that can interrupt that is just atrocious and horrible.

It's just a really it's not uncommon for me to just lose flow. Because of something like this and not know when it's gonna come

[00:26:03] Adeel: back. Yeah. Marsha Johnson, Dr. Marsha Johnson told me when I first met her that she's like one of the top cheerleaders for ms. Funny audiologist. And she said a third of her patients are engineers.

And so we, at the conventions I've been leading these kind off breakout sessions on Misa, Olian engineering, and yeah, there's, that's usually the, one of the bigger groups is like people gathering who are all in technical slash cre, that engineering creative kind of kind of thing.

So yeah, there's some something there we're so early on this in the research for this, but

[00:26:33] Colin: yeah, this, and I've read, I've Go ahead. I've, I was gonna say, I've read some things that, a lot of these folks who are, disorders that are considered neuro atypical. So we think about folks that are on the autism spectrum or people who are on the a d ADHD spectrum.

There's a theory that there's a relation between the way that, those brain wirings and disorders like this. , my dad and I think if it's physiological, my dad suffered in his guess his early adulthood, mid adulthood with panic, disorders, panic.

So disorders and social anxiety. He actually became, medicated for that. Or he, in the eighties , he's told stories, which I have wired back to the extreme version of how I feel when I get in the flight or fight mode. There's stories that are funny to say now, but, my mom and dad when they were dating, maybe went camping and they had done, had gone camping, and then they got cleaned up in like the little canteen and my dad got cleaned up and.

Said, sitting on a bench and my mom said, okay, I'm gonna go in and get washed up. And when she came out, he, she found him like 30 feet away in a pile of leaves cuz he had basically had a panic attack, like an anxiety attack. Yeah. Rolled on the ground into some leaves and done these things.

And like he had, there's this story they have, about a restaurant, where it was like, Hey man, if you wanna get out of the bill, you don't have to throw an episode. Because Yeah. So I think about that sometimes in that, he's had to mitigate that with a combination of being aware of his triggers, his anxiety triggers and, medication, for that.

Which he has now at this point had taken for 30, 30, 35 years , in his life. That's certainly not the level of, panic or anxiety that I feel, but it's definitely on that continuum right. Of I have triggers that cause me to get to a point where I feel like I'm out of control.

Yeah. And I've gotta use a breathing or I've gotta, I've gotta get outta the way. So I do think that these things are. , there, there's definitely credence to the fact that this is a thing that, that kinda ary pass down to other people. It, it's very real. I also think that we just live in a world where everybody has got some level of issues, and some of them are coming from, the physicality, like physical makeup of your brain or your body, and some of them are just your trauma, your, environment.

And I think that's an, that's nice that we're seeing that and realizing that. So people that have, I don't want to, I don't want to lessen misophonia because, as a misophonia suffer, I want to champion it and say it's, it's a real thing that does inhibit my ability to do things.

Yeah. But I am, thankful that it's not something more serious or I'm not having a panic attack and rolling on the ground in the leaves. Yeah. Like my dad, dealt with, 30, 40 years ago. But I've talked, been able to talk about it with my dad a little bit. at times, and he's been like, ah, he, has not to throw shade on the boomer generation.

Enough of that happens on the internet. But, I think there's just a notion of a generational difference between accepting other people's, struggles. And you're talking to my dad. My dad is a Vietnam War veteran who has a legitimate medicated case, and all of these things, right?

Yeah. Yeah. His struggle is different than my struggle, but there's still real, there's still things that have to be dealt with. So I've had much more luck in talking to people of my own generation or younger than me when you talk about things that you struggle with this. So that's why I talk about, the, my place of work right now.

It's a good supportive environment. My immediate family, and, my wife and kids understand it when I mention it, right? They don't know the details of, why daddy hate. Yeah. You clicking and clacking that thing right now, but they appreciate it in a way that's interesting.

What do they do at

[00:29:48] Adeel: work for you? Is it just, let, just let you have the AirPods on, or do they so

[00:29:53] Colin: we, we're mixed. I've never act, I've never actually sought, an actual help or support for it. Apart from mentioning it we definitely allow headphones and we do things like that.

I am, now I was essentially project tech leadership in my role at this company, and now I'm actually the head of the engineering department. So a lot of my day is meetings now. , which means you're literally navigating in and out of different potential trigger situations, over and over throughout the day. But it also means that I can control where I sit or I can control where I am or I get the luxury of, even though we have an open office being in a conference room slash. We also been working from home for so long I control my own environment a little better.

. If it got serious though, I know that we would, noise canceling headphones or, potentially a different workspace would be, an option for me. Yeah. And I think having the key element is knowing that people at least respect that it's a thing that you're going through and that they'll work to support you in that world.

Yeah. Yeah. So that, that can lower once I know. Yeah. Once I know that, then I'm comfort I can be comfortable. Yeah.

[00:30:51] Adeel: It's interesting cuz go when you first mentioned your or your, your joy trigger I thought you were gonna talk about our head of engineering that we had and his diet coke.

[00:30:59] Colin: Oh gosh. I thought that, that thought that's what your initial trigger was. But I guess I

[00:31:03] Adeel: actually cause I remember that, talk about that .

[00:31:06] Colin: Maybe I've blocked that one out. Yeah. Now yeah. And it's not funny. Like I have had, have other soda slurs in my life. My parents are both big time diet Pepsi fans and they they will slur a soda from time to time.

No, but I actually have, I must have blacked that

[00:31:21] Adeel: one out because I remember you talking about that multiple times and after you were gone. After you were gone, that was killing me over there too. And like other co other coworkers were like, we'd sometimes take a break and play boggle in other games in one of the, the interrogation rooms so that we call them.

They weren't really rooms, but then if if he came in, like I could not concentrate on the game and so I would, you'd be like, oh man, I would Yeah. Shut down. Yeah, just mental shutdown. And, but I couldn't say anything because it's like our boss and what, how am I gonna sound crazy or, and so I just basically,

[00:31:50] Colin: it's also.

It, it's funny because I've I've chatted with him and kept touch with him like very loosely over the years. Yeah. I, after not leaving that company, not being in that situation so much of that just, melted away. But what you say is really important. Cause I've noticed that among myself too.

And you have to fight this a lot with your loved ones. You attach the fact that they're a trigger to a person, or at least I do. This notion of I know that they slurp their diet coke, or I know that they chew their apple really loud. You start to associate that and those are the feelings you have about that person.

Like you said, he, maybe he comes into the room, he's not even slurping a diet Coke. Yeah. But you're like this yeah. This vibe, my vibe check is failing now, because of this . And that we haven't talked enough about that, but that ultimately is what I saw as the thing that was gonna be the most inhibiting to me going forward.

You were gonna identify and attach this frustrating thing to this person. Who otherwise is great or who is not really a problem, or who shouldn't really affect your ability to be in a certain meeting, get a certain promotion, do a certain thing, work at a certain place. And that's a really good thing to call attention to.

I think that's the rabbit hole you can go down. Yeah. What about with socially,

[00:32:55] Adeel: I'm curious do

[00:32:56] Colin: you bring it up? It's 2021 so social is just not so much the thing. So I brought,

[00:33:01] Adeel: brings up another point that's I, coming out of social distancing, I'm like, I'm actually like this kind of, I'm trying to, I'm not like re I'm honestly like recalibrating, like now it's like I'm starting to scratch, I feel and now I can like really think about, it's who's sponge worthy?

It's just who ? Who, who do I wanna strong myself now with? I can There, there

[00:33:19] Colin: is decide now. , there is such an opportunity for a, like the great social reset. Yeah. And I think that bridges will be burned and hurt. Feelings will be hurt, because of this. Because I think what's gonna happen is a lot of people are gonna choose to not do not come to my office anymore because of, that, so there's a professional aspect to that.

And then no, I'm not gonna go to that Thanksgiving event because it's too many people or secretly, I never liked hanging out with you aunt so and and you Uncle Bob, you know so much and there's really after

[00:33:50] Adeel: insurrection and all the people you have to defriend

[00:33:53] Colin: on Facebook.

Oh gosh. Yeah. All the people you have to oh, you were a closet, be a lighter Christmas . Yeah. And I think that's, I think that's refreshing. I have nerves around that because I think, and maybe part of this is. , the only child pressure is greater sometimes than folks who have siblings.

Where, like you spread out the frustration like all the hopes and dreams and loves and feelings of your parents are spread out. They all, as an adult only child are on me. So me saying no to an event because I'm not wanting to do that social thing or because I'm not wanting to be in that environment, is there's an emotional tax that I'll have to pay Right.

Either immediately or later. I don't know. But this notion of choosing when and where and who you hang out with, I think the pandemic is giving us that and it's a great gift secretly. Yeah. Because for me, I, we haven't really, I haven't thought about this strategically or who am I not gonna be friends with?

Oh, I have. Maybe I'll get there. Yeah. And I think I will get there, once we get comfortable, with certain events, we're gonna choose the things we wanna do and we're gonna say no to the things we don't. And it's not, I'm not gonna feel bashful or shameful or angry about that. Yeah.

And who triggers you? , it has to be a part of that consideration. Absolutely. just has to be. Yeah. Yeah. A notion of every time I'm around you, I have to worry about your breathing. I'm sorry, or no. Let's,

[00:35:07] Adeel: or maybe tell maybe while you're dis while you're not around them, to maybe try take a opportunity to try to explain to them before the next meeting kind of thing.

Yeah. That might be more Yeah. Yeah. Productive to the people who, we don't want to like necessarily burn every big bridge, but but yeah it, yeah. It gives us the opportunity to like you said, the great, it's so funny, the great social reset. Like I've, when I'm walking down the street talking to myself, I'm talking about stuff like that too.

I'm like, oh yeah, great social reset. And yeah. It's it's funny to hear from you too. Yeah. I think

[00:35:32] Colin: I like the image of you getting that animated, the idea of you being that animated. Huge. People

[00:35:37] Adeel: may think that you're still incredible, Hulk. Yeah,

[00:35:39] Colin: exactly. , yeah. But I, yeah, I think in social situations, I it's come up occasionally or there's been things, it's nice.

I think that there's a having young kids, there's just this kind of innate cohort that you have with other folks in that same problem space, let's say. Yeah. Yeah. And we live on a street with a lot of really good neighbors who who have started to have their families around the same time we have.

So you have this, it was actually a saving grace in the pandemic was, Hey, there's so little traffic. There's so little things. Let's just bring the kids out into the street. Once we all get comfortable with mask or no mask, we're going to hang out and chat. And then vaccine happened and, there were parts of this spring and summer where there was just a nice time. I think the main thing for me will be cutting down on the number of social activities and the social engagements and things like that. Hopefully leads to less harried, less running around, less stress, hopefully leads to less flareups, less, of those times I was talking about where I'm in that bad mood or I'm hangry.

And doing things. So I see that as probably the win that I'll get. And then there'll probably be a couple of good situations or folks that I can opt out of, seeing a lot. Yeah. I can't believe that we're in the second year of figuring out are we gonna have a family Thanksgiving or are we gonna have a family?

Oh God. You know how holiday season can

[00:36:51] Adeel: you believe that there was the the other, the I influe the the influenza one in 1918? It's had, we've had like big, the same number of deaths and it's lasted longer than, yeah. Before we had any vaccine before it is just amazing that we have not really, we have not grown since then and not really a gift in some important area.

Yeah. You think that the one place you'd want to advance in is like healthcare and we haven't even

[00:37:14] Colin: been able to do that? Oh yeah. So there's, you and I could go off site, tangent, completely different pot. Podcast, podcast about, capitalism, and its influence on those things.

A great example of that, in terms of allowing you to get into situations and do things. And we had ordered a series of masks, special type of masks that are off the face for the kids. And this company, I understand why, but when things, when vaccines came out and things started to look great at the end of the spring, they cut their production so then it got to be nearing school going back and masks were gonna be a thing. And the Delta variant was a thing. Yeah. There was no, there were no masks available. So I was on a waiting list where I was like 16,000 in line on a waiting list to get three masks Yeah. That have fun patterns and sit off the face for my kids.

Yeah. We still, I think, live in that world. We could talk about capitalism and and its effect on the world another time. Yeah. ,

[00:38:03] Adeel: I have pretty new, I have a nuanced views on capitalism and the critiques of capitalism too. So yeah, we could definitely, I think that would be interesting.

But switching to beer, because you have had a podcast or YouTube something in the past I was gonna talk to you about, like I did Yes. The effect of alcohol on the, other like self altercations maybe. And just maybe if you want, if you had any thoughts on that cuz I've basically, I've especially after the pa after last year, I put the breaks on some of that stuff.

Just cuz yeah, it's, it would make me more aggravated be that the hangriness would be times two. And and also knows for general health reasons. But I'm curious

[00:38:40] Colin: if I think that. This conversation. That's great research that you've done there, but this conversation will be perhaps less fruitful.

I'm gonna switch in rooms here. Yeah, sure. So my my wife can take advantage of the office shortly. But yeah, we I did for what of deals referring to is I used to do a I guess vidcast was the word. That was the word for a while. It was a YouTube channel where we reviewed beers, my friend a colleague and from and co friend of deals and i's named jt.

We did a show called yet another beer show, and we did beer reviews and it was a nice thing to get into it. But I haven't done that really for years because I found out that my palette wasn't there, so I reviewed we had put out something maybe a hundred or ish Oh wow. Episode episodes.

Yeah. Okay. And it's a very simple format. We go out to the store, we pick out a few beers, we bring them each, and then we figure out what we're gonna talk about them. And we learned a little bit about how to properly review and test, the taste of a beer and everything and review it.

But it's, beer can actually be like wine where most of us live about, here on the spectrum, you can sense a little bit of a difference. You have a sense of your preferences, but you can't tell the difference between say, a $15 bottle and a $80 bottle. But a sommelier can, someone who's trained their palette over years can.

So I was mentioning it. I floated the podcast to a friend and then they said, oh, I watched a few and I noticed that you used three words. , it's mal or it's happy, or it's this, and the mouth feels that. And I really felt, I felt just attacked, but honestly it was just an eyeopener where I was like, I really don't think I can take this to the point where I'm a great reviewer for sure.

And for a while I enjoyed the, the craft beer scene and everything. But similarly, I don't think it's been pandemic related because actually in the pandemic. So while I live in Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania has very interesting liquor laws. , you can't, you well it's lightened in the re in recent years, but you couldn't, for instance, go buy a six pack of beer somewhere.

That's not a thing. , you could buy 30 or 24 beers if you went to a beer distributor. Uhhuh . Yeah. But that beer distributor is not allowed to also sell hard alcohol or wine. Those are actually sold by the government. This is kinda like Canada. Gotcha. Okay. Yes. It's actually, it's not too different from your homeland.

But so at the beginning of the pandemic one of our pandemic coping mechanisms was, Liz would send me out and I'd come back with six cases of beer that we wanted to try over the next, however many. And I was shocked to find out that wasn't a month, it was like two weeks

Like the timeline that we thought it was. But that's, I'm more of just, an enjoyer now more than a reviewer. Yeah. But I will say that as a side effect of cutting down on stuff in general, early pandemic, not with withstanding there are not situations I'm in, where like my flareups are there.

So I would say that a lot of the seams and places where drinking would happen in my, college years and my early twenties, even as a young professional, you go out to bars are loud places, right? I am a person who would hear the clinking of the glasses and the dropping of things behind the bar or the conversation across the room, sometimes more than the one right in front of me.

So for me, I think the connection there to the misophonia is more about that situation that I'm off. , when you're, when you are doing, the

[00:41:35] Adeel: drinking so bars would trigger you you'd notice some people find them good for white noise but you are, you're picking up on all that, on the triggers.

I

[00:41:43] Colin: think it it's, bars can float throughout the day from being, more like a coffee house. and then also more like a dance club, yeah. And then there can be, anything in between. For me, something

[00:41:51] Adeel: to cough all the time in, while they're drinking during a conversation.

Yeah, they do. It's like an unusual amount of coffee. Some

[00:41:57] Colin: certain people also, now that's like the worst thing you could possibly do, if you eat coffee. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's literally triggers, triggers you in other ways. I think that for me a lot of the factors, that are situational or environments that I'm in, that I need to try and find a way to navigate out of or not be in.

And I mentioned how my dad had, his issue that he's medicated for. I in college had a few, of those, they were never really full on panic attacks , but they were certainly anxiety, Yeah. Stresses. And I have, I think in my mind, dialed those all back or tied them all back to either, these misophonia triggers, that, experience expense or noise, environmental things.

It's not misophonia. But another thing that will frustrate me a lot is too many noises happening. So imagine you are trying to play music in your ki you're trying to play music in your kitchen while you're cooking dinner, cuz that's a cathartic way to release at the end of the day.

. And then that's when your child decides to play at high volume a game on the iPad, and then that's when someone decides to do something else or talk to you. Yeah. you're trying to do things. So my ability to like executively function and separate those things as things I need to address and deal with and consume.

Yeah. I falter horribly. And what I end up having to do is turn off my music to let those other things happen. , because I can't appreciate the, are you musician

[00:43:10] Adeel: at all? You Cause some, if

I

[00:43:11] Colin: say musicians rather, I mean in the most rule bending way. Yes. Okay. I played bass guitar.

Nice. I've been violin as a kid. Nice. I was in a band technically, but that was more of the garage band, approach. So I don't think that, I think that maybe method of thinking like I probably could have scratched that or grown that muscle that's probably there as much as that's physiologically a part of a person.

Yeah. But I never exercised it . Did you ever go adequately, did you ever

[00:43:35] Adeel: go see therapist or anybody like your dad ended up having to do about this or anything else? I

[00:43:40] Colin: haven't, yeah. Okay. I haven't now there are many things that I probably should. Yeah, we know that. I think actually.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've been talking for enough time that. It's pretty obvious, right? And I think actually one of the things that I'll come out of, and I think I say come out of the pandemic, but it's probably that time should be now, we should stop waiting for it to end. One of the things that will come out of me, come out of it for me is the ability just to just go do that.

Here's the activation, fight the inertia of not calling that person up. And this will absolutely be a session or 10, that we talk about all these things and how to mitigate them.

[00:44:08] Adeel: Misophonia, it's, you might not find somebody who knows what it is, or at least it's gonna take a while to find somebody.

But yeah. I'm just curious if, yeah, if you had tried and seen if, any therapist had heard about it. It's always a 50 50 chance. Seems like I, I

[00:44:23] Colin: think that I would do well and I I know that I would do well to just, talk about a lot of those things that everyone needs to talk about.

I fall victim to the kind of, if I get through an episode or I get through a time that's tough. I , I move on, yeah. by moving on, we talked about that colleague that had that trigger for us. Leaving that job melt, that melts away. , so in a way that's healthy and that I can recognize the ebbs and flows.

But it doesn't necessarily help me get to working through that problem or working through, real, learning real coping mechanisms or learning real ways that we can unturn some things. Thanks ail for, making, for basically ending this ne or nearly ending this by saying, I think you need to need therapy.

Do

[00:45:00] Adeel: I? Yeah. Of course for the audience. I was for the audience. I was saying that in just to see, my usual question of has, has the guest gone to see a therapist in the past and,

[00:45:08] Colin: It's a reasonable thing. No it's a reasonable thing. It's adjacent to all this we've talked a lot about obviously, triggers and coping mechanisms. And then we've talked a lot about the pandemic. I think all of these things are going to we talked a little bit, at least skirted around the edge of how these things are gonna get normalized. Yeah. This notion of, I, I have an issue or I have something that needs some support, it's gonna get normalized.

And I think some of that support is frequently gonna be, therapy or it's gonna be just talking out your things and kind being honest with the, the triggers you have or the situations that cause you stress.

[00:45:37] Adeel: Yeah, Colin yeah, we're, we're coming up to an hour.

I know. We'll catch up on other stuff at another time, but I, yeah. Anything else You still have on your notes there that from the beginning is that you wanna share with people who

[00:45:48] Colin: are listening in. I had a chance to at least dovetail a lot of my notes out what I, thanks.

Listening through a lot of these episodes have been really great. So you mentioned, if I had anything, to plug, I, I think people are already listening to something that's really helpful for me. This notion of hearing other people describe a, how they learned about this weird thing, and then b, what it's like for them has been really validating.

And it's been really excellent. So the, all the mechanisms that you put out there in terms of resources, you're probably com I get the sense that you're combing the earth, for all of the things you can find. So I might as well benefit.

[00:46:18] Adeel: They just all come to me. Yeah, no, I appreciate that.

And that's, I'm glad that's doing that even though, we used to work together now 10 years later this stuff is hopefully benefiting you. That's great to hear. But yeah, no, people just come to me. I rarely have to, no, I, I never have to ask anybody. There's only specific people Like big people in the community that I have gone after.

But it's been just people and it's mostly people who've never talked. It's often people who've never talked about it with anybody. And so that's the those are some of the, really amazing things. But yeah, this is gonna help

[00:46:46] Colin: a lot of people. Do you think you could be as successful at this if you didn't have such a nice, deep, comforting voice

[00:46:54] Adeel: I've heard that as well, and now I'm like, oh, what other of topics should I talk about? Other podcasts I should spin up? But yeah, I hope and also, yeah, I cut out the a pain stickling go through the audio and cut out any lip smacking and all that stuff.

So it probably comes out, maybe even cleaner than it usually

[00:47:07] Colin: am. I think. I actually think that is that's hard to, ask a regular event or a regular service to do, but that attention to. Detail and that acknowledgement of the fact that this is gonna happen. I think when I was going through your catalog, there was one episode where you said, Hey, there was a noise, there was like a scratch.

It happens around this time, . Yeah. That idea of, hey, I couldn't get that out, but I tried. Is really helpful. Because one of the thing, when I talked to folks about this, and you, this is the deepest conversation I've ever had about someone where we really know the term and we know what we're, the topic that we're talking about.

But when I've mentioned it to people, they often talk about how, oh, sounds like nails on a chalkboard bother me, or, things like that. And they're not placating, they're not, they're just trying to get in there and acknowledge those things. And that notion of, that attention to detail that you do on the podcast, that is like the best advertisement for no, this is actually, this is the level of some folks who have this condition just get to a point where, Someone smacking their lips wrong or being too close to the microphone, really will affect their ability to consume that entire episode.

Yeah.

[00:48:12] Adeel: Yeah, no, you're right. That's and I think just telling people even if I have to keep that thing in there I know from myself and talk to other people, that is, if you just know it coming up front, like you've said that many times in this in this episode, like as long as you are aware of what it is and if it's coming, you have a better chance of dealing with it cuz you know it's not, some boogieman absolutely.

Jump on you and kill you, .

[00:48:31] Colin: Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that even chatting with you this hour has, I think, validated a couple of the approaches that I'm doing, there's no playbook saying out loud. Yeah. Yeah there's no playbook. So here's a play and, ask someone what they're eating before they eat.

Maybe that will be useful to one of your listeners, but I'm actually now saying as crazy as that sounds, I think that is actually something that has helped me over the last Yeah. Year or two, and you can turn it what was gonna be a really angry situation into one that you recognize is gonna happen, but then it's friendly as well, right?

You can do that. We can do that. Sometimes, you see someone eating or, you're in a situation where eating is happening. That's definitely possible. Not all the time, but

[00:49:07] Adeel: yeah. Cool, Collin. Yeah. I'll let you, yeah. Let you get back to the rest of your day.

This, yeah, it's been great. We'll, yeah, we should catch well, we'll let's catch up like on, on more general stuff. I'd love to just see what you're doing and see what your job's about to. I'm also, I think, yeah, I also just left the big corporate life and went to a local consulting company.

Oh at least contracting just to kinda yeah. Change scenery, post, post 2020 covid e kind of stuff. And then yeah, just trying to figure out if I should get deeper into that or something else. But but yeah it's like you said, great social reset, great career reset and everything.

Hopeing, other people listening have the take the agency to or at least or, we're maybe a little bit privileged, but we're at least able to somehow yeah, re rethink. Things gotta change as scenery if they need to. Yeah. Anyways, yeah. Glad to have you on and good luck with everything and yeah, fantastic to catch up on this one weird,

[00:49:54] Colin: specific thing. It was , it was wonderful. I think it's interesting and difficult to keep touch with people. It just is because you've gotta find that time. Yeah. Hey, here's a very specific topic that we could chat about for an hour, and it was great chatting

[00:50:03] Adeel: with you too.

Honestly. Yeah, and if and I, yeah, I feel like a lot of these conversations, I, it's like I only talk to people for an hour, but I feel like we're like BFFs. All these strangers that I've never , I'm probably never gonna see again. And and some people come who come on. They want to get introduced to people they've heard.

So if the that ever happens, just let me know too. But

[00:50:20] Colin: yeah, no that's wonderful. If there are folks in the Philadelphia region who are in the software industry I'm, my name's Colin McCloskey. I'm on LinkedIn and I work for a company called Arc. I'm happy to reach out to folks who are fellow mes or who are just kinda in that industry.

I think it's great to be able to meet people, it's much easier to meet someone in,

can be something like a struggle that you have interest and

[00:50:45] Adeel: that's great. Yeah. That's a great, but so the new app that, I'll just plug the little app, but in the, one of the resources section there is it's a list of businesses either owned by or ideally that have Misa phones working there.

So I want to get to a job board, a Misa, plenty job board where it's, that'd be great. Yeah, it's not I'm trying to message it properly so people don't think that it's like jobs about misophonia, but we want places where you will have somebody to, that you'll have somebody who understands you.

And I think for a lot of us, that could be a major life-changing thing in terms of wealth, growth, creation and gosh, just kinda all that kind of stuff. And we, we're not even gonna talk about yeah, I'm trying to, I'm trying to get more awareness in school counselors and whatnot and change people's lives that way.

But but yeah, I wanna get a job board around for and so maybe, we'll have, you for the Philadelphia area up there, just to kinda just to get lists going in various cities just to see how we can get people in, clusters together and working in a comfortable environment.

[00:51:38] Colin: Yeah I like that idea of for all sorts of situations, here's a place where you'll be supported or at least understood something of that nature. Yeah. Alright, deal. Cool man. So this was fantastic. Yeah. We should absolutely catch up about John Misoni related topic. Sue, I got your number now.

I wish you all the best. Yeah, that's right. I I wish you all the best and this was fantastic and much continued luck to the Great Misoni podcast.

[00:51:58] Adeel: Thank you, Colin. What a great way to reconnect and catch up. I know a lot of people will benefit from hearing your thoughts and your story. If you like this episode, don't forget to leave a quick review or just hit the five stars wherever you listen to this podcast.

You can hit me up by email hello by podcast.com or go to the website just appoint Easiest ways to also just DM me on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter. Support the show by visiting Patreon patreon.com/podcast. The music, as always is by Moby. And until next week, and we'll see some six.

Wishing you peace and

[00:52:34] Colin: quiet.