Bryan - Family Dynamics and Workplace Understanding

S5 E9 - 11/25/2021
The episode features a comprehensive conversation between the host and Bryan, who shares his lifelong struggles with misophonia, starting from his teenage years when an incident involving his father eating ice cream dramatically changed his perception of sounds. Bryan discusses the challenges of dealing with misophonia in family, work, and social settings, highlighting tensions with his family who failed to understand or accommodate his condition, leading to a distancing in their relationships. He touches on the lack of awareness and empathy for misophonia historically and expresses hope for better understanding in the future. Bryan also shares his coping mechanisms, including the significance of finding understanding peers and workplaces, as well as his efforts to communicate his condition to his daughter and wife, who are more empathetic and supportive. The conversation delves into the impact of the pandemic on Bryan's mental health, his creative pursuits as an outlet, and the community's role in providing support and understanding for individuals with misophonia.


Adeel [0:01]: Welcome to the Misophonia Podcast. This is Season 5, Episode 9. My name's Adeel Ahmad, and I have Misophonia. This week, my conversation is with Brian. This was a really special conversation for me. All my interviews are special because we all have this thing in common and many other things, it turns out. But this was kind of crazy because our life situations are even more similar. It's a good long one, clocking in at over an hour. And we really get into some of my quote-unquote favorite topics, like the distance that builds up between family members when you're growing up with misophonia. I've probably said this before, but if there's just one thing that comes out of all these conversations, it's a better understanding that this thing hurts and that hurt sticks a lot longer than people realize. Having said that, there's a lot of laughing along the way in this conversation to go with all that raw talk. And having said that, there's also maybe a little cursing here and there that comes with when we all get kind of rolling, joking around. All in all, it's super insightful, honest conversation that I'll definitely be listening back to multiple times. I'm happy to say a couple more people are supporting the show through the Patreon page, Colin and Julia. Thank you so much. The Patreon is super easy to find at slash misophonia podcast. And over there, you can read all about all the things that I've got coming up for the show and find out about all the... T-shirts and mugs and swag that I can send your way. An even easier way to help reach more Misophones like you is to just leave a quick rating or review wherever you get the podcast, if you haven't done that already. And if you want to just reach out, hello at Anytime you can email me or find us on Instagram or Facebook at Misophonia Podcast. And you can find the links to all those things in the show notes. All right, let's get to my conversation with Brian. Cool. Well, Brian, welcome to the podcast then. Good to have you here. Thanks, Adeel. Absolute pleasure. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, this is going to be fun. I guess, you know, whereabouts are you, if you want to let the people know? Yeah, so I live in Colorado, just in the foothills outside of Denver. Okay, nice. Yeah, I know a few people down there. And you're in tech, it sounds like.

Bryan [2:34]: I am.

Adeel [2:35]: Yeah, I've been in consulting tech for about 20 years. Yeah. Software side or? Software side. Yeah, cloud-based platforms, things like that. Wow. Yeah, I've recently jumped back into consulting in the last, actually less than a month or so on the software, mostly cloud kind of stuff. So we'll have to maybe compare notes after at another time. Like out of the gate, I kind of got into consulting just because the cube life, if you will, back in my day when you started, it was all about cubicle farms. Oh, that was my day too. Yeah. It was horrid. It was absolutely terrible because one of these 77 things that makes me go into a tailspin is the sound of hammering on keyboards. Yep. And it just, it was dread. So let me try that traveling thing because people aren't annoying on planes. This should be fine. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's hear, I guess let's hear, let's hear about, um, guess yeah i mean work really well actually let's talk about pandemic has thing have things then gone better for you uh since the pandemic because now you're not um you're obviously not in an office and you're definitely not flying um what do you think of the pandemic for misophonia obviously it's been tragic yeah exactly the emotional toll aside yeah um and the you know the I guess, the selfish, selfless battle that we're in now as far as things that are politicized, all of that removed. Pandemic was pretty good from a perspective of You know, control is the common behavior of those of us who have this affliction. And it's not like control and being like, I want everyone to walk this way and go that direction. No, it's like we just need to control our environments. And I know I'm saying something that's been ad nauseum on this podcast, but it's the pandemic highlighted a few things to me, but also coming out of it. quote unquote, has been interesting because I've been in a few instances these last few weeks where I'm like, oh yeah, I forgot I hated doctor's offices. So yeah, this is horrible. Just in the waiting room alone, just that moment was like 15 minutes of panic. But overall, okay. But emotional toll, like a lot of us who have this, I have the comorbidities, if you will, of depression and all those things. So those are always there. They're always up to surface, so. Gotcha. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So I guess maybe, I think we're all probably aware of some of your, it sounds like work triggers are a big deal for you. Yeah. You want to talk about maybe, I guess maybe going back to your career and how misophonia has, I know this is going to be probably a long thing, but feel free to elaborate on how kind of like misophonia has affected your career. It's a lot of hiding in hotel areas, in offices, hotel, the term, is hiding out in conference rooms that weren't occupied just to escape certain things. And I've heard in previous discussions you've had with others where in the tech world, I don't know when this became a thing and deal, but hey, let's give everyone cereal with bowls and ceramic and spoons. And it's like, that's the worst. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, in like the fridges and in the breakout rooms and stuff. Yeah. And it's like, hey, if I can hit this thing as many times as possible, this won't annoy anyone. And I'm in the corner absolutely wanting to jump off the build thing. And it's just... Well, it's when companies start to bring more, quote unquote, like home life, like benefits, just that comfiness of home into the office. And it just went from, you know, basic snacks to like, you know, like five course meals kind of thing. And all the full-on cutlery. The cutlery, yeah.

Bryan [6:49]: We want you here forever.

Adeel [6:50]: It's not just a nap. Here's paper towels. Here's an entire fine china. know cabinets kind of thing so i think um professionally it's been you know for those that aren't aware like when you're in business consulting a lot of times it's a road warrior sense where you would travel monday morning to a place in the us or globally and you'd come home thursday or friday and it's this constant it's a structure and it goes back to that control element So I'm very much in a groove of knowing how I operate in a business dinner and like always having to have the corner seat. We all know what it's like to have someone sitting behind us and, you know, oh my God, if they chew their mouth open, this is going to be a long night. You have to be, you have to kind of be on because you're kind of like selling yourself at all times as a consultant, right? It's not, you're kind of working for yourself. So that's, that's kind of an added layer of stress, I'm sure. yeah and it's it's interesting because it's as in the business world you can't just freak out and uh no no you can't and you also can't you know the dread of having to explain it it's like hey do you mind do you mind closing your mouth when you chew that's not weird right It always makes it a weird conversation of, oh, let's dig into this because everyone, and I don't want to use the term gaslight, but it kind of goes down that vein of everyone wants to oversimplify it because it's the human condition. They want this easy button. They want this, oh, well, can't you just take a pill for that? And I'm like, oh, if you only knew, we wish we could. But it's the double-sided coin of I don't want to have to even bring it up and then I definitely don't want to have to explain it. Yeah, yeah. Because the probability, once you go through that, once you go through those hoops, the probability that it's going to be successful just seems so low that it's almost not worth it. No, it never is. And it's, I mean, you're always, yeah, it's always small talk anyways in those kind of settings. But I think it goes back to, everyone can date myself now and do the math, but it was 30 years ago. I was 14. I was lying on the floor watching the television. My father was behind me and he started eating ice cream behind me. And I never realized, you know, my father sounded like a rhinoceros, you know, chewing on a thing of bananas. But it just, that moment, from that moment forth, it was just like... my world changed. And that's just mine. That was the moment for you. I remember it vividly. Was there something about what you were watching together? Was there a bonding moment that was interrupted? I'm just curious what may have happened around that time, if there was any kind of correlation to something. I will say I had some angst towards my father. So I did have a bit of... tension with him, you know, teenage boy. I have an older brother. But I. Because you're early high school at that point.

Bryan [9:57]: Early high school. Yeah.

Adeel [9:58]: And I was struggling. We just moved to a different place. It was new. You know, when you're at that age, moving somewhere new, it's always a lot of stress for anybody. And I was I was kind of anti-dad at that point in my life. And I always wonder, I'm like, is it like was I seeking something out that then just became this thing? and mind you i say all these as you know pontificating like what is what isn't real and then in 2010 or 12 when all of us found out oh no there's a name for it and it was like oh um and i'm not gonna lie like that was the moment i i i kind of just sat down and had a moment of just relief because i've always felt like why am i so angry And everyone's always, you know, my parents would always assume I was moody. He's always got an attitude. No, you guys were eating cereal. Like it wasn't, they always thought it was something so much more complex. And I'm like, no it's the way dad eats yogurt like it's like what are you talking about well it's because i think we're as um you know well i think parents are kind of programmed to expect the worst as of teenagers and all that kind of complicated moody stuff and so and sometimes uh i can see how they can kind of just assume that's what it is and then that just further creates distance because we're like, no, it's actually simpler but weirder, but still it's not just the teenage thing. I wanted to turn the tables a bit over to you and actually bring up a topic I was thinking about, which was the blurred line of misophonia and what we experience and then folks just being inconsiderate. And it really plays to, I loathe selfishness. And I don't know where that comes from, but it's part of all this. I'm a very selfless person. I'm always wondering, how can that person be doing that? The judginess. People who play loud music. Yeah, it's the judginess. I'm curious, what's more stressful to a deal? Not knowing the source of the noise or knowing the source of the noise? Huh. Does that make sense? Yeah, that's interesting because not knowing, I think, in some situations, I'd be like... speculating on where it's coming from i might even like a sign of pretty yeah um my wife has asked me this question and i don't know how to because she's like you seem to go crazy either way and she says it lovingly clear we've been married a long time um but it's it's drawn a question where i'm like i don't know like if you hear like when you looked at apartments years ago it's like you hear a thump or something what is that versus just knowing in front of you someone making a noise that's driving you bananas. So that's the interesting, because I think if I don't know where it is, I'll pretty quickly, and I think we're both engineers or in the engineering kind of field, I'll find a way to try to figure out. where it's coming from even if it's like kind of really trying to listen carefully and so um yeah i'll look for the root cause as soon as possible so then i'll i'll i'll know where it's coming from whether i'm correct or not is another question but i think i will i'll get to the point where i think i know where it's coming from so i quickly so i think i will try to veer towards that certainty and i think it's probably because i my my brain the misophonia slash whatever yeah um needs a target you know because i because it thinks it's being targeted i think that's what it is i've realized i need to know what it is and then i go to stage two now that i know what it is why are they doing that uh or whatever it is that might be making that noise um But yeah, that's the hotel room with the trip. For that, well, stage two for me, stage three was pretty quick because I just assumed that they have no awareness of no consideration for anyone around them. And so then it was stage three. I actually, I wrote down all the things of mine. So as I go through these noises, I did want to clear up very quickly. so around the its mouths chewing smacks one of your guests used the term after chewing which i was blown away by because i was like yes that and my wife god bless her i love her she does after chew and i'm just like like you're killing me so after chewing and with with um um you know, at the risk, and I'll take this out if it gets too descriptive. So the afterturing, again, for those who may not have heard before, does that refer to potential? What does that refer to to you? for me that place is swallowing or is it the cleaning of the teeth with the tongue kind of it's the latter yeah okay okay say no more i think we all know what you're talking about yeah yeah so that one resonated with me i'd never heard it before but i was like oh there's a name for that and i coined you know whomever coined that from your podcast i was like props that was that was wonderful uh other ones are just um silverware on plates and bowls, which made it super fun. Clicking pens, keyboard tightening, sniffing people who won't blow their nose. Casual sniffing, too. It's like, you don't need to. You're not sick. What's going on? Exactly. It's just you're doing it because out of habit, which is even worse. And this is my mind. Yeah. And then the consideration things, which is like, if I ever... I lived in Texas for a long time and people there put TVs in their backyards. Oh boy. Oh, my stress is exactly a deal. You just summed it up. So it's like the minute I would see my neighbor with a TV being put up, I'm like, oh dear God. Because then I get to listen to whatever garbage they're going to listen to in their backyard. I mean, there are situations where it might be like, okay, maybe it's a neighborhood movie night. It's been planned for days and then you can deal with it, you know. yeah you could join in maybe but it's I think it's that the surprise slash it is kind of inconsiderate to just blast TV yeah it's probably a bit universal it plays to a lot of the dread that plays to a lot a lot of the discussions so Yep. Yep. Okay. Right. So we, okay, we, let's maybe go back to the, to the, to the, I guess, yeah, it's a teenage years. So you, what, what happened then after that? after the ice cream incident wasn't wasn't you basically the next like from that moment on like the next day and every day afterwards um uh did did it start to um multiply pretty quickly the number of sounds like was everything starting to bother you then from your dad yes okay yes yep yep it started with him and i think the hardest part i've had is that Even then, I would try to address it as well as you can with a very low emotional intelligence as a teenager to try to address like, hey, this is something that bothers me a lot. And I have the quintessential family that's like, oh, it bothers you, so we're going to make fun of you for that. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, so it was kind of weaponized. And I have a brother who's a year older than me, and he knew it was something that bothered me. So naturally, like any empathetic human being, he doubled down and made it worse to me. So I would say for a large part of my teenage years, I was hunkered in my room with a pillow wrapped around my head just at certain moments in time, just... either avoiding the moment or just, just hiding specific situations. How did they find out? Was it, uh, they could see you visibly, um, uncomfortable. Did you try to tell them? Um, I would say early on, it was a lot of passive aggressive kind of like, I think there's been a mimicry comment made previous podcasts. It was kind of like that. So if I would hear something, I would mimic it. Um, was probably some of that which they were probably confused more like i always got the why is brian so angry treatment like you know you just gotta let that kind of stuff go you gotta just stop being so mad all the time yeah yeah it was like I'm not very supportive a deal. I'm not going to lie. Like looking back, our parents do the best they can. I'm a parent now. You know, there's, there's no real good guidebook on being the best parent, but there's also the element of, Hey, just being cool. And I just never thought people were being pretty cool about it when I was growing up. I felt like they just made it worse. Well, yeah. I mean, there's, I think there's, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it seems weird. It would seem weird to me too. if something's wrong. I think in general, hopefully there's a little bit more awareness now. Not enough for misophonia, but that, you know, if something's bothering somebody, you don't go and antagonize it. I hope we're moving towards that in a society. But back in the day, I'm basically your age. Yeah, that was pretty not the case. And before that, even more so. So... I think I'm really excited about really the world my daughter's growing up in from a sense of that empathy and understanding and being kind. And we've got a ways to go. Watch the news for five minutes. I don't do that anymore, but yeah. No, exactly. That was a test you passed. But no, you can minimize the stressors and just be good and kind to each other. I'm trying to raise my daughter just to be a good person and all that, but you go back in time, you know, just even seeing a therapist was, you know, it wasn't seen as like, oh yeah, talking to people, it's very helpful. It was like, oh, you're talking to a therapist. Like, what's going on? Remember, it was called, not long before, we were teenagers and we were called an analyst. So it wasn't even about therapy. It was just like somebody analyzing you and then who knows if you can get any help. They were just going to basically reflect what they were going to tell you that something's wrong with you without really... trying to give you therapy so and i will i can share again vividly it's uh six months or so after that moment uh anger all those kind of things and this was my introduction to the ssri world uh that i have very very you know very often frequented um antidepressants right yeah yeah so all the flavors i've got all the yelp reviews out there on all of them um but the main thing is when i went to this as you said analyst my parents went in the room with me. Oh, God. Exactly. So it's like the weirdest moment of probably... This is the 90s too, right? I mean, it's not like, okay, wow. No, it was wild because they were like, you know, he's just very concerned about him. And then everyone's just kind of look at you and you're like, have this weird FBI spotlight on you. And you're like, yeah, so can they leave? Is HIPAA a thing yet? You know, it's like, how... how can I be myself if I'm like basically in no different of a situation than my family living here? It's like, this is ridiculous. So didn't go a lot of places. And then just, you know, as we grow up, it's just, we start to learn more about ourselves and just get through this. things without control or how it inhibits or impacts your relationships with people. And I have had an impact on my relationships. My family and I, obviously, you've heard, it was a struggle early on. It caused resentment for me because I'm just like, all I needed was support. How long did it take you to... Did you get over that resentment? Was there any kind of break? No. 30 years later, it's there. I'm still... don't want to use the term ridiculed i think that's too aggressive but i i they still don't understand or do they i don't think they want to do you have you told them that it has a name that it's not being studied no okay yeah dude you're basically where i am yeah okay interesting um yeah so and and you're actively being ridiculed by your brother even your parents I wouldn't say actively. So there's a bit of a distance. No, that would be crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So I think, no, like you grow up, you grow mature around things and you're like, if you can't handle that, that's fine, whatever. But yeah, there's definitely still not much of an understanding of it. There's when I leave the room now, if there's that situation. everyone just kind of in a way is just like that's just brian oh yeah eye rolling you know and i can't believe i just made a mouth noise when i said that it'll be cut out it'll be cut out it's okay perfect i'll write my diary all night yeah wow But yeah, it's probably eye rolling and kind of like shrugging shoulders kind of situation. I know you're recording and I don't mind if you leave this in or leave it out, but there's a distance between my family now, so I don't talk to them. I wouldn't say this was... you know the crux it was definitely part of it it was just yeah wasn't the straw it wasn't the whole but it's definitely a combination of things where it's like my life is emotionally more stable and less stressful living my best life and it's very unfortunate to say those things out loud but i love my parents i love my brother there's no day that passes where i don't miss them But I will say that their lack of understanding of this thing that's really, really hard to explain and live through didn't help. So. Yeah. Yeah. I understand, man. Yeah. I share a lot of those same things. So, yeah, I totally get that. And I think a lot of people listening do, whether they'll come on and share that or not. And I know from the notes that I get from people who, you know, or, you know, when maybe come on the show that there's a lot of people who are going through the same stuff. So that's why we're doing the show. Yeah. Let me kind of say that. Cause like you're exchanging for this. I never really talked about this, but with anyone other than my wife. Yeah. And I will say my daughter, she understands it. She's 12 and she understands it more than anyone else. I know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Maybe let's switch gears and talk about, yeah. Sure. You talked about your, your, uh, Childhood family. Yeah. I mean, your, your, your, your daughter. So, well, it's interesting. You said your daughter's around 12. Have you, you know, going through what you went through, were you thinking about misophonia, either you being triggered by her or she may be developing it because we don't know exactly where it comes from or, you know, were you worried about that as she was growing up? I, I'm worried about it for her just so she doesn't have it. Cause her mom is very like, my wife is nothing. Everything rolls right off, right off her back. Like it's just like, she doesn't understand it, but at the same time she is empathetic to it. Um, There are times where she's still like, oh, yeah. But for my daughter, it's something where, no, she doesn't trigger me to the point. Only if she's doing something like kids be kids, like she's doing something that's just annoying, like banging something on. I mean, that's just kids being kids. That's not me simponia. Not really on the like, would she be an aggravation? No, it's I've heard you talk about that in previous discussions. It's weird that way. It's like I don't have that rage where if I, you know, in a restaurant and someone, a complete stranger across the way has no idea that I'm shooting him like the death ray from my eyeballs. But if my daughter's doing the same thing, I'll just be like, you know, honey, can you can you stop that? And she's like, yeah, it's OK. And she knows. She understands that I've talked to her about it. With the name and the definition of it and all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It's funny, though, because I did. I got your coffee mug, the Mesa podcast. On one side, it truncates to Mesa foe. And really, my daughter is like, it's she's like, is that a fear of soup? And I was like, all right, it's pretty solid joke because it looks like Mesa podcast. And I'm like, all right, that's that's all right. But yeah, it truncates right at the handle. But on the other side, it says it fully. So I'm like, all right, just give me the other side. i don't have to double check the store oh it's totally fine though it's a good mug just for anyone that's looking for merch but no she's she's honestly she's my wife and daughter kind of rocks with this whole charade and i have friends that understand it too like i i have a boss who has been more understanding of it than honestly anyone i've ever met he's been wonderful like i've told him before uh events like hey if i leave the room it's not because i find the material boring it's because the person next to me it has a cup and saucer in 2021 and who drinks from a cup and saucer so it just and he's he's unbelievable he's like you know totally get it get out of here like i i don't want you in that state i'm just like that It's unbelievable to get that from a human being. Yeah, yeah. How did you approach, because yeah, it's yet another question that comes up is how did you approach that in the workplace? Like, how did you, how did your, did you just kind of go to your boss's office? No, so being virtual, you know, ordinarily virtual or traveling, it was something where I just, you know, you build rapport with individuals and you build a relationship. It's not something I'm very forthright with with a lot of folks, but I built a pretty good rapport. And I just said one day, I said, listen, you know, here's the wiki because, you know, that's reliable. But like, here's this thing. I have this thing. And, you know, I just need you to know because we're going to be in certain circumstances where I don't want you to be like, what's going on with Brian? And weirdly enough, he was like, actually, I have this other person in his life that has something very similar. So there was a relatability that was kind of heartwarming in a way, but also just kind of like, okay, cool. There's connective tissue as far as the understanding. So yeah, as far as workplace overall, not so much. I don't bring it up that often unless it presents itself where I'm like, okay, I need to be transparent, genuine, and real. Here's the case. Nine times out of 10, I get, oh, you shouldn't live that way. Yeah, I know. I know. Thanks for that. You should write a book and put it in a Hudson bookseller in the airport. Everyone would buy it. But yeah, you just kind of mow through those things. yeah yeah well yeah i mean i guess if you're virtual and or traveling a lot you're not uh you're not stuck next to somebody all day for eight hours a day and so it's a little easier maybe to get away um is that something is that kind of environment is consulting kind of something you uh maybe uh steered towards because of misophonia i'm curious how the kind of career arc went yeah yeah yeah i'm definitely working from home i love for probably that reason so I, it's funny, I am, you know, doing the cubicle world for a few years out of college. I was like, I got it in a way you have to fight or flight, you have to flee this something. And I came across some individuals who were like, Oh, you should look into consulting. And it was like this total like, advertisement for like, Oh, you you know, you you want a winning career. So I just happened to fall in line with a pretty good software company at the time and that's where it started and I'm still on it, if you will. But it is funny, back when before, in a way, the US got really into open workspaces where you walk in and you're like, oh, it's 400 desks all staring at each other. Europe was kind of ahead of that. So I would go to England for business at times. And that was a test because I'd walk in and go, oh, these aren't cube farms. These are just open workspaces. And so it was interesting. That was my first kind of introduction to the open workspace. And then sure enough, you know, 18 months later, America's like, oh, let's go to the open workspace thing. It seems to be like, dang it. So.

Bryan [31:25]: Yep.

Adeel [31:25]: Yep. Yeah. I mean, that's yeah. I don't know how I haven't I haven't been in an office environment in a while. I know the last place I worked at when we were in an office, they gave us I mean, it was just a team of 10, but they gave everyone pretty nice pair of headphones, not noise canceling, but I'm hoping that this starts to become a trend. At least. Yeah, they keep going up in price. They're really healthy, too. Yeah, right. And I don't know if you're like me, I've got a pile of them now. I think I'm up to like three or four. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I've got quite a few. I mean, I have the Sonys as well. The Sony W, whatever, on Amazon Prime.

Bryan [32:06]: Yeah, they're great.

Adeel [32:08]: have airpod pros here um in my ears now and uh then like i said i bought about like a you know a pack of fives of the cheapest possible earbuds that's kind of my backup just in case all else fails because yeah batteries better batteries are getting better actually the sony's hold up quite well so i'm quite surprised at how long their batteries stay but uh you never know when it's going to go out and then you're kind of like should have a look so how do you so i've heard you have a family yourself correct yeah how how do they cope how do they manage a deal how do they deal with you and i asked that very selfishly because my wife you know after you know 20 years it's it's it's still not easy Oh yeah, no, it's not. And yeah, it's just, I mean, I, you know, like I say in the podcast and in meals, it's like, it just kind of like. And just tell yourself beforehand, okay, you know, it's mealtime. It's going to be pretty temporary. So there's always, you know, life after the meal. Just look forward to that kind of thing and just kind of enjoy the meal. Enjoy kind of, you know, the company for that time. But, yeah, but also, you know, I'll probably end up eating a little bit maybe faster than others so that I can – get up and help out with you know um you're getting something from the fridge or changing the music or doing a dish or something like that so um yeah uh you know there's just having optionality there kind of reduces the stress of a little bit but um yeah i mean generally in um i don't know i yeah there's but it's still kind of tough otherwise because you never know when um you know when you're going to hear that weird kind of throat sound or whatever. And then it's like, okay, I, and I'm like, no, it's like, it's not worth saying anything. Let me just internally cringe and then see if I can recover. Then that's kind of, I don't know. That's kind of where I'm at. I definitely don't, you know, try not to react or anything. I think you have some stuff. Is it posted on GitHub? Did I see that? uh materials yeah yeah yeah yeah well so i did a uh yeah in my github account and for those who are not engineers github is kind of like a a place uh see a social network for nerds and their code on their on their projects uh you mean super cool people yeah yeah sorry yeah yeah the 21st century nerd is super cool somehow i don't know how that transformation happened but uh Yeah, so I have a, you know, the whole, there's a repository for less cool people than us nerds. That's just basically a giant document called Awesome Misophonia. So there's like awesome in all kinds of topics. So I just did the Awesome Misophonia. uh list and yeah it's just it's got a bunch of like um all the latest research and i don't know i think our news articles and things like that i've recently put all of those into um i haven't updated that in a while but i put them into uh the miss phonia mobile app that i just launched recently and so i'm going to be updating that with uh basically that'll be the the latest but yeah um I have not been a good subscriber. I did not download the app yet, but it's coming soon. Thank you very much and have a good night's sleep. We'll go ahead and cut this short. Well, the app is a bunch of bugs, so the next version will be the version two that's coming in a couple of days will be the one I probably promote more. anyways um i love well the reason i brought it up so i saw the awesome thing yeah i did hear about your app earlier so i i have listened to your podcast at least once um but i think there's stuff out there as far as music funny just it's interesting to me how certain things do trigger a deal but don't trigger person why and it's just i i fumble with that one because i've asked people who know i have this and they're You know how it is. It's like dance, you know, go dance over there because you have this thing. No, I'm not going to do that. It's weird. But it's like, hey, does that bother you? Does this bother you? It's like, weirdly, no, that one doesn't bother me. And but then in my mind, I'm like, should it? Yeah, I mean, there's people who've come on who've like, yeah, I mean, eating doesn't bother me, but like hands clapping really loudly together or things like, you know, there are, yeah, some people, there's kind of like a, it's kind of like a, I don't know if my math is, if I'm too removed from my math training, but it's kind of like a Gaussian curve where there's kind of like a middle, a strong middle, and then there's kind of like some fringes. And I'm definitely towards the middle. But yeah, there are some, other people who have triggers that are very different than mine don't really overlap that much so it's interesting yeah it's um maybe some people love after chewing but yeah most people don't no they shouldn't um yeah it's uh you know, 30 years later, like I said, it's, it's still pretty, yeah, it resonates pretty strong. It's, it's tough. So has it basically from that, it just kind of like, so what happened outside of the home then at the time? Was, was it affecting you in school? Like grades wise and social?

Bryan [38:01]: Yeah.

Adeel [38:03]: Yeah. From that point, like I was, I would call myself a B plus student in those days. And then I went off to college. I split some time after college. I joined the military. I was in the Navy. And it was weird. It was right around the time. So in college, I struggled with it. My freshman and sophomore year in college. And then I jumped off and joined the military. Not because of misophonia, but I definitely was back in the classroom. Gum chewers be damned. It was a very hard ecosystem to be a part of. especially again in that kind of like what's wrong with me kind of moment why am I getting so angry about these things and why do I have to like in a way I'd almost have to leave a class sometimes if if I was surrounded or put in a position where it was just I was at the front of the room not the back of the room yeah but yeah when I went off to the military you're in such a weird kind of vacuum of things where it kind of went away for a while where I didn't really think about because you're just in a constant state of like, okay, what's next? In combat or in training? No, yeah, no. So I was nothing like that. So I was pre 9-11. So I was in a very different military. I like to explain that like, you know, nothing but love to everyone who ever, you know, serves in any capacity in that realm. But it just... I don't want to downplay mine, but it was a very different world when I was in the military. And it's just, no, but it's very regimented, structured. It's very, you're kind of a family and all these kind of things. So it's just after the first few months, I kind of forgot about my misophonia. It was weird. And I was just so busy for that time. So then I left the military and then went back and finished college and returning to college. I went, oh, yeah, that's right. I hate being in rooms with 22 people. And they're all doing an array of things, clicking pens, that whole cacophony of horrible sounds. and i was like oh yeah this sucks uh but i powered through and you know i got a business degree and uh information systems you know that's where the coding background and all that kind of stuff comes from but it's uh i always tell my wife like i'm just a business major you can't expect much from me um but it's yeah it was and then from there on it was very much part of my life like it was always there yeah and when did you start to um it's interesting yeah there's just a bunch of people and i think myself included in the early 20s it seems like it kind of fell off the radar and then just came back uh for me it's pretty sure it was like um actually i guess it wasn't an open office environment but it was um Well, that came later when I hit the open office and listening to the Diet Coke sipping and whatnot. But there was a previous job to that where I was kind of consulting, working out of my boss's basement. And there were some issues there. But I really didn't know what it was. I just knew that it was kind of being... being perturbed. Yeah, interesting. And then, okay, so then did you start to Google around for what it is? I'm curious kind of how you discovered that there are others out there. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we all know that the spiral of the iPad before bed, if you will, and like, okay, I finished the internet tonight. Let me go and go to bed now. And it's just, I think it was one night I was just looking stuff up around. Honestly, I think it might've been my wife and I had an argument about it. She's just like, you know, you gotta talk to somebody. There's gotta be a medicine or something like that. And I may have been online that night. I just went, he's a phonia. No way. I think it was like, you would know better. It was like the Oxford. It came from, I think, the UK. There's a lot of research happening in the UK, yeah. And that was my moment of, oh my God, it's a thing. And from there on. And then, I don't know if it was about a year ago, I think I was skiing with my daughter. And on the way back, we found your podcast on Spotify. And that's when I had originally emailed you a long, long time ago. We were in our 30s, the deal. But yeah, and that's when my daughter actually was like, hey, let's listen to this podcast. And she's like, hey, that's what you have. And it's like, pardon my French, son of a bitch. Like, yeah, it's a thing. Do you remember which episode that was that you first heard? No, I don't.

Bryan [43:06]: Okay.

Adeel [43:07]: I can email you after if you want.

Bryan [43:08]: Yeah.

Adeel [43:08]: I would just be curious. Yeah. Yeah. I really enjoy, I'll tell you though, like I really enjoyed your discussion. I think it was Claire. I think you mentioned an email. Yeah. I've had a few Claire's. Yeah. I'm not sure which one it was, but she wasn't the first one, but this recent one you did that you posted recently, mind you, it may have been earlier in the year, but I really enjoyed her discussion because I kind of identified with it, her riding in the car with her father and, same thing like if i ever had to get the car with my dad and he's like let me pop in some gum before we get on the road i'm like oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god um so yeah it's ironically was it the claire that works in an ice cream shop because that would be really ironic or interesting coincidence but uh no i think it's a different episode i think it was the fashion photographer Oh, Christina. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bryan [43:59]: Christina.

Adeel [44:00]: Yes. Hers. Yes. And Claire was the ice cream shop. I did that one. But no, the year ago one, I can't recall. But I'll go back and look. But yeah, that was the podcast. And then just learning about it, reading a few things here and there. And just, I mean, there's a community that I never knew existed. And it's that moment of like, I genuinely for a long time, and I know you share this in a lot of other shows. What the hell is wrong with me? you know it's it's i used to use terms like listen kind of insane you know i it was very self-deprecating around like listen i'm kind of a weirdo right can you not eat bananas like that you know it's like can you not chew apples and make them mushy with your mouth um it's yeah so it yeah came together yeah interesting okay okay um so yeah i guess so then day to day like maybe what are your kind of your go-to coping methods um other than obviously your your your battery of um head gear and uh right um emotional helpers um i i don't do great a deal i don't if My wife always says she hates traveling with me. She's always like, she and my daughter will walk about 20 feet behind me. I'm a very regimented... I very much know what to avoid and when to avoid. And there's something about it where I can almost anticipate... It's like you're sitting somewhere in a restaurant and you're like, oh, please don't put that family next to us. You just know they're going to chew their mouth open and bam, they're right next to you. Yeah, they always get put there. They always get put there. I always joke with my wife, if I'm traveling and there's a basketball team on a floor of a hotel, I will be the one guy on that floor that's not on the basketball team because they're just making noise all night banging the basketball or whatever. I've literally stayed at a hotel at Penn Station, New Jersey. and a UFC fighting group was on the floor with me. And I banged on my wall. And the next morning I was like, oh, I could have died. You would think that they would need to get rest more than others. You would think so. Or if you're on the plane and it's just like, okay, who's the loudest gum chewer to board the plane? There they are. They're coming right here next to me. It's without fail. It's just coping. I'm not great at it. I listen to some of the stuff you guys talk about here. It's tough. It's tough. I still have my moments even at home. where I have to remove myself. I've never figured that out a deal. And I don't know if it's like... am I not focusing hard enough? Am I not trying hard enough? It's so aggravating, but it's, I always find finding serenity. Yeah. Yeah. No, man. There's, I think, I mean, there's people around the world who are still asking the same questions, so no one's figured it out yet. Have you, you know, since that quote unquote analyst, have you gone to other therapists in your adult life? about this or anything else, and I'm curious what their reaction to Miso is. I... have probably seen 10 therapists from the age of 14 to now, like separate, like individual ones. Some off and on, a year here, a year there. Antidepressants pretty strong. I don't want to go too much into it. I'm okay sharing this. I have a history of SI, so suicidal ideation. I have a pretty strong OCD. It's just all those things we've heard on previous podcasts. I've worked through therapists on some of the SI stuff pretty strong. You know, you asked me how I've been doing on the pandemic. You know, I didn't want to make this podcast, but the last year was pretty tough for everybody. So I don't want to make them up myself, but yeah, last year sucked. It was tough. But for therapy and all those, I would say I've never had any of them understand or know what it was. I always got, well, have you tried Zoloft? And I'm like, oh, he's just reaching for the, no. And always the funny thing was, I'm already on that, so why are you prescribing something? Right, that's the biggest SSRI I think there is. Exactly. So it was never understood. And even like family practice or internal medicine doctors that I would go see for a physical and things like that, I would mention it. They would just look at me and be like, yeah, it sounds like you just need more rest. And I'm like, oh, thanks. Thanks for that.

Bryan [48:50]: Wipe the slate clean.

Adeel [48:52]: Yeah. For me, it was like, so who diagnosed it for you? I was like, self-diagnosed? And then they just tabbed the next field on the computer. Everything is so computer-based, too. It's like when you say you have it, you can hear them hitting the pick list. And they're like, well, I don't see it on an M. Did you say it was with an M? Like, you know what? Forget it. Just forget it. I went to the doctor on Friday a deal. and i had the keyboard situation in the waiting room like i was very aggravated when i hit the room and i the doctor comes in and she typed with a purpose on this keyboard and i was like very polite and i was like listen i have to tell you i have a sensitivity to certain sounds and your absolute destruction of that keyboard is on the list And I didn't intend the sarcasm to be completely out there. She's like, oh, I'll take my hands off of it. And I was like, yeah, it's a thing called misophonia. She goes right back to the keyboard. And I'm like, I didn't mean take a break for five seconds. I meant, can you just, first of all, take it easy. You're going to break the thing. But secondly. just for the love of God, just can you write it with a pen? Like, just don't click it, but just, you know, there's all these rules we have. But I was very open with her and she was very cool. She went, you know what? Thank you for telling me, you know, I'm going to do my best. Let me know if you're having that moment. And I was, that again was a really nice moment of, oh, she, she heard me. And yeah. And I was trying to be cool. Cause you know, the Ray, I, I say that, do you, you know, the rage, right? A deal. It's that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a horrible feeling. And people don't realize, well, why are you always angry? I don't want to be angry. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm sure in my chart it says something like this guy's nuts. Like he's just he comes in a curmudgeon. They can say whatever they want as long as they have. For me, as long as in my opinion, at this point where we are in medical awareness, as long as they have the word misophonia that can be indexed in a search engine, that can be. looked at by researchers like yes that's that's we we just need to start there and then you know yeah my favorite work on the keyboards and stuff after that but let's just get to the basics because we're we're so far behind my favorite was um i had someone literally in the medical profession be like you know it sounds like you might just need attention tamer tea And I'm just like, yeah, like the celestial seasonings tea. And I'm like, no, again, like, I don't know why I even paid the copay. You guys are killing me. So digressing on that, I'm getting there, but I don't think the medical field has gotten there just yet. No fault of theirs. It's new. You know, these things take time. So, and then just, yeah, I don't want to get, yeah, obviously too much, like you said, too much into your comorbidities and stuff. But do you think, where do you think, you know, I've had a lot of people come on with other comorbidities and I'm always curious, just wanted to see if you had any thoughts on like that kind of causation, chicken and egg kind of thing. Like how much do you think misophonia is totally separate or may have um been the source of a little bit of some of these other things or vice versa just if you've ever thought about that if not like we can move on or whatever but no i think they're related to deal i i really do like you think of ocd like i've i've worked through it but i used to count quite heavily like i had a pretty aggressive what about Bob kind of moment in my life. And I think they're all pretty related. I heard your discussion with another individual about this specifically. And it was interesting to me because I started thinking about it before discussion. Like, it's just, there's no easy, but you know, we are who we are. I'm coming to terms with that in my middle of my life.

Bryan [52:58]: Same.

Adeel [53:00]: Yeah, and it's a good feeling, but it's also like you said, I'm watching my daughter going, please don't have this. If she does, I'll be there. But I don't know. I'm not, I would say, smart enough with all the stuff going on as far as misophonia. you know i hear things of spectrum and all that it's like you know what i am who i am and i just got to be the best brian and that's i think i'm close to there but i'll tell you the pandemic did not help i don't know about you ideal this pandemic is for the birds um but yeah what what so for me it was just like uh you know there was uh you know at the beginning it seemed like okay well there's some interesting things like i don't have to and that's when you're around a ton of people i don't have to you know i don't have to be seated near the crazy family because i can just do takeout and that's okay um so it seemed it's for in some ways it seemed better but then the claustrophobia kind of sets in at home um for one yes um and actually honestly for me it was the biggest thing because uh uh i i you know like like the podcast i felt and like you know being a techie have all these other projects that i'm kind of i like the um you know, I don't mind being at home and being able to work on stuff, but the kind of claustrophobia and then also trying to make sure that everyone in the house is mentally okay, that kind of stress too. I mean, that's probably the biggest thing. I want to make sure everyone else is happy first before me because we're used to kind of like, you know, worrying about ourselves last. Did it ever break you though, Adeel, like being real? Because like that selflessness, I feel is prominent. Yeah. with individuals like you and I, but like, I'll tell you, it took a toll because I was so worried about my wife and daughter. Yeah. It kind of broke me last July. Mm hmm. I think I was. I think there were some close calls that I probably just kind of like was able to get over. But I definitely there were times when internally I was just like, you know, freaking out, like and I think it's not fantasizing, but like imagining myself saying things or just kind of acting out or whatever. And then I just tried to remember that, you know, we are just, you know, really unusual situation. And if, if I were ever to, I don't know, just like yell or scream or just in general, then that would have the opposite effect of what I was going for. Kind of, you know, that would, that would be the main problem that it wouldn't really be about the pandemic anymore. So I didn't want to be the center of the problem. But honestly, and I hate to say it, but well, I don't know, I hate to say it, but maybe it's a good thing that Mr. Funny kind of trained me for that. You know, because I'm like always thinking about how to not make a scene. And so I don't think I ever, well, I don't know. I don't think, I think there were definitely a few times when I was probably more frustrated with my daughter on some stupid thing than I probably needed to be. but I don't think I think I got through without making the types of themes that I probably imagined I might make, you know, kind of thing. I don't know if that made any sense. It weirdly did. Cause that's the last 18 plus months of our lives. Um, think the thing for me was my wife and i and my daughter we all agreed one of the three of us was usually going to be down aggravated annoyed angered and we always were like okay the majority has to help that you know one third and we always kind of had that approach of like pick pick each other up every now and again two-thirds of us would be in that moment we're like okay it's time to get outside and breathe fresh air uh breathe fresh air and all those kind of things but we usually found the law was one-third of us was in that moment we just had to pick each other up it sounds simple now but in the moment as we all know it's pretty tough and as far as the miso element i think it did exacerbate a bit when i went back to doing a few things these last few months Because it's pretty heightened. Like I feel like I'm like DEFCON 1 when I go in public now and I'm like, oh my God, I used to be able to maintain DEFCON 2 or 3. For any of the military nerds out there that want to look up DEFCON, it's from 1 to 5, I think. 1 being the worst. But I'm trying to do my best NPR voice to not work. But I think it's just, it's really heightened. And my wife even has acknowledged that. She's like, you are, like, she knows where I usually am, but she's like, you are way more sensitive. And not in a negative way, but she's like, you are way more sensitive to things right now. And I'm like, I know it's horrible. Yeah. Well, the interesting thing, so two things, again, about me. One thing I... uh didn't even forgot to mention speaking of last july when i had a we had another newborn so that was a good distraction yeah that's wonderful congratulations so that was all those you know that was all good that's kind of like defined kind of everything since since then so that's been yeah that's been great um the other thing is looking towards the future i'm like one thing that frustrates me is that this, because it's been dragging out, I'm kind of ready for the future where the rest of the household is out there doing normal stuff. And I can kind of like, um, I don't know, for some reason, social distancing for me is, is, um, we've gone through physical distancing, but I feel like with all the new stuff and also the misophonia, I think I'm going to be doing some social distancing for a while, or at least a recalibration. So that's one thing that's also kind of made me, I don't know, you know how we are, we try to look for any kind of optimism we can find. So I'm hoping that, again, misophonia is maybe hopefully training me to a more recalibrated, kind of like rethinking like what's important to me like what would make me happy what do i not have to wait should i not waste my time on in the future so i'm looking forward to that but i think i think i'm probably heightened a little bit in frustration because this fucking thing is dragging on No, you summarized for everyone listening as well. Yeah, Dale just said it. It's just the discourse, too, the divisiveness. It just goes back to what we teach our kids of just be cool. And it's really hard to do that, again, when you turn on the news for 15 seconds and have to explain the unexplainable. And it's just like, God damn it, society, you're killing me right now. I wish I just had that weird thing with noises, but you keep doing this to me. Um, it's just, it's gotta be good to each other, but I'll again, digress on that point. Cause we got a ways to go. Right. Right. Um, well let's talk about, I guess, uh, yeah. One other thing I wanted to talk about was, uh, other misophones. So you, you, you have not met anybody else, right. That, you know, has misophonia. It seems like this, um, I'm the first person outside your family. Um, I'm racking my brain. No, I actually, I have a friend from work who's a partner. I've never met them, but she and I have spoken about it because when she, when she is just off, it's just happenstance that it came up. And when she found out I had it, it became kind of an understanding mechanism for her and her partner. And like asking me like, Hey, not he does this what do i do but it was very like just kind of understanding discussion and it's it was a little helpful for me actually to hear i was like oh yeah he and i are pretty similar i think that's one i'm trying to think of anyone i don't think anyone is aggressive i do hear a lot like people go oh my sister's like that or oh i've got a buddy who doesn't like chewing gum and i'm like he didn't listen to me that's like okay But no, I don't think directly I've known anyone to have it. It is interesting, though, so I'll go full circle. My father, I do feel like he has a lot of the traits that I have, like a lot of these afflictions. I do feel like my dad has anxiety. I feel like he has depression. But he is from that even further generation where... The cliche of you don't talk about stuff like that. Yeah. And it's interesting to me because I don't fault my parents for anything and all that kind of stuff. But I do see some of my father and me in that sense of, you know, controlling a situation and all these kind of other elements. Now, we all handle things differently. So it's funny. It's like maybe I have met someone with it and he didn't acknowledge it and I didn't know it. Do you remember any things that he may have done or said? Because you said that when around the time when the ice cream incident happened, there were some anti-father things going on. I'm wondering if was there any, I don't know, specific behaviors that he was or something between you guys? Yeah, I think it was there. And this was all perception. So for myself, my perception was it's a bit distant as a dad. He was there, but he wasn't. He wasn't very involved or active. He was kind of that midlife. At that point, he was probably in his own midlife. You know, is this it? And I think as human beings, we all hit that. I think I hit that. But we all handled it differently. And I think he had that moment. of you know is this it i've got these two teenage sons um but he just wasn't there he wasn't like hey how's school going he was never that um right okay so i think he was going through his own motions and then in turn it just it spirals his family when that's going on So, yeah, it's just was that something that caused traumatic stress to, you know, spark this thing in me? I don't know. My brother doesn't have it. He's the exact opposite of me where it's just he's got his own things. But like this is something where he's just like, yeah, that's weird. So does he have, your brother has, we don't have to get into it, but does he have other things that he gets help with? Like, I mean, he's curious if, because there wasn't, it doesn't seem like there was much empathy. I'm always curious. Do other people have other things, but then yet they're still unsympathetic to ours? I think he's similar to me. I don't think he has mesophonia. I can guess that he does have a level of anxiety or depression. But he's the quintessential prideful, kind of insecure guy that would never, ever tell his younger brother that. We're only 12 months apart, but he would never have that moment of, hey, I feel that. He would almost just punch me in the arm and be like, you're weak, that kind of thing. It's like, OK. Apparently, we're still 11, but that's cool. Yeah. So I just, I do think he has some stuff, but it's not as, he's not as open about it. Like me doing that. My brother would never do something like this.

Bryan [64:44]: Yeah.

Adeel [64:44]: Yeah. And I'm doing this just because I think the community is fantastic. And I, on behalf of everyone, not to finish this or anything, I'm not fast forwarding, but like, I appreciate you a deal like this. I listened to these on, I'm on any drive for more than 40 minutes. I'm like, let me pop in and listen. And it's always enlightening for me. So I do thank you for doing what you're doing. It's great to hear. And yeah, I mean, you're right. The community is awesome. And it often gets reduced to like, you know, oversimplifications or people, even people like in our community, just ranting on Facebook and Twitter and Reddit, because that's what those... forums that I end up looking like just they look like a bunch of rants but there's more having talked to people at the conventions there is more to the story there are more similarities and there's more depth and so well I can I can hit on some of your cliches like some of the co-operatives but here we go creativity so here's the last one yeah so positives you know what are the sounds we enjoy and I'd love to hear the ones for you like for me it's wind to the aspens my daughter and i um if you ever listen to wind going through aspen trees it's this amazing sound and i also play guitar so the sound of a new set of guitar strings on a guitar oh yeah it's just that's everything like just that first drum of having that thing tuned it's there are things that bring me joy from sound and that's the thing is it's you're right it does become this like an event you know almost vitriolic like uh statements around you know people doing certain things but i'm like there is a lot of stuff out there that's enjoyable but i the creative thing was interesting me because a lot of people you discuss with them i've always been somewhat of a pseudo artist i've always you know i've been drawing since i was like four years old i've i play guitar now for many many years and i just i i've drawn to that side of my brain in a really heavy handed way. You know, it's that whole, like in a perfect world, I would love to just create, you know, that, that it's that whole, well, Brian, why don't you live your life and do that? I'm like, ah, because I'm way too risk averse to ever chase my dreams. So. But yeah, it's a common thing that I've heard in your talks. And I always find that one interesting too, is that there's very much that side of the brain that's used in the artistic creative sense. I mean, even yourself being an engineer, like that's a creative element. You're designing things, you're creating things. It's very interesting how a lot of us are in that mindset. Well, we're into things that I guess require a bunch of focus, you know, like it's a bunch of just sitting and... yeah sitting and thinking and pulling something out of our minds and and putting it out there whether it's yeah music or um or something technical so yeah You're going to take out the little mouth noises I've made.

Bryan [67:48]: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Adeel [67:49]: For sure, for sure. Hang on, I want to say something. Okay. I just unpaused there. Yeah, well, I mean, you know, I didn't want to... No, that's a great way to end on because I think, yeah, your creativity has become... yeah something that's come up more people are bringing it up more in in some of these episodes so that's that's really interesting to hear um yeah that's really cool the the ass wind um went through the ass do you have maybe a recording because i'm into i've been getting more into field recordings recently so it would be interesting to kind of maybe uh to hear some of the sounds that kind of like yeah my listeners i was hiking with my daughter and she's like that's a really like that's one of my favorite sounds and it was just really like kind of passing moment and then i was like it's a really good point like that's a really cool and so over time i've realized oh i really like that stuff but yeah i can find it on or something yeah wind through the aspens it sounds like a really bad autobiography um yeah well cool um yes right yeah this is great yeah there's a lot of similarities to uh to my life. It's been really interesting to hear. I'd love to keep in touch. We'll definitely be hanging out at some point. I don't know when. It'd be great to keep in touch. Before we go, anything else you want to share? Anything else you want to tell people who are listening who might be like us? No. I think it's just... I mean, it's a very selfish moment for me of like realizing that, you know, you're not alone and all those things. So just telling people what they haven't already heard through your podcast, it's just the community. It's strong. We've all got a ways to go just because we were dealing with this and we deal with it every day, every moment. Thank you, Brian. Like I said, I'd love to hang sometime. I really hope your holidays with family are a good one. And that also goes for everyone listening. If you liked this episode, don't forget to leave a quick review or just hit the five stars wherever you listen to this podcast. You can hit me up by email at hello at or go to the website, All the links are in the show notes. It's even easier to send a message on Instagram at Misophonia Podcast. You can follow there. Follow on Facebook at Misophonia Podcast. And Twitter, it's a little different. It's Misophonia Show. And don't forget, you can support the show now by visiting the Patreon at slash Misophonia Podcast. Music, as always, is by Moby. And until next week, wishing you peace and quiet.