[00:00:00] Adeel: Courtney welcome to the podcast. Get to have you here. Thank you. Yeah. I'm sure you've heard episodes. I'd love to hear Yeah. Where you are. I know you've, you just said you're outdoors, where in the world are you and maybe then what you do.

[00:00:12] Courtney: Oh, cool. Okay. I'm in the Baltimore, Maryland area, the way suburbs of Baltimore, Maryland. Yeah. And I. I had a baby in 2019, so I've been on work hiatus, if you will. he's been born, but I have dabbled back into the working world since he was born. I do a lot of administrative stuff for the most part.

Yeah.

[00:00:33] Adeel: And you can probably do a lot of that remotely, I would imagine, or are you being

[00:00:37] Courtney: nudged back? Yes. Okay. Before I left they were nudging to go back. Was not into going back.

[00:00:44] Adeel: Yeah. You're not alone, I'm sure. Cool. Okay. And and yeah, so I guess what's, yeah, maybe how should we, yeah, maybe we should talk about the birth obviously a lot of changes happen around then.

How has motherhood been and has that been a major factor for you, Ms.

[00:01:00] Courtney: Surprisingly, no. I was nervous that it was going to be that, like the sound of my son's noises cuz they make a ton of noises, . Oh yeah. Especially early on. I was nervous that was going to be problematic and I was gonna wanna rip my ears off and all that, but I really didn't.

And at three he still, he eats like a cow, but eats three. , it doesn't bother me yet. , I'm anticipating the day that it starts to make my skin crawl, and he's not there yet,

[00:01:31] Adeel: yeah, no, I mean I've, and I've heard that else from personal experience that yeah, it seems like young kids, or at least your own kids at least, don't bother you so much.

Maybe your brain is somehow realized that it's not a threat. Although the same sounds obviously within belt would make you wanna do nasty things, but. But yeah, hopefully that will hopefully that will stay the, stay subdued for you. Did you ever think about, did you ever think ahead to not just him causing issues with you, but we all are unsure maybe how hereditary it is.

Have you ever thought about his future

[00:02:02] Courtney: y Yeah, , I try not to because I, yeah, I can't do anything about it now, so I try not. to dwell on that. There's so much to dwell on in general. Oh yeah. We a three year old that I'm willfully ignoring it for right now. Yeah. His always can really get to me a lot of the clicking and the ticking and the repetitive, which I know is good for his development, but, oh my

[00:02:25] Adeel: God.

you're, . No. And there's some of them where, yeah, there's some of 'em I know where they, they're like on some kinda a timer that if you don't, interact with 'em after a while they remind you that they're there, . And so sometimes I've noticed in recent years there's some companies that have gotten a little bit aggressive on that, maybe.

And tried to draw the kid back. Anyways. We d we digress, but that's, yeah, that's great that you're, yeah. You're trying to stop bothering me too much. Maybe, yeah. But outside of that, like how has life been? Was it what are your, major issues these days coming from?

[00:02:54] Courtney: More recently probably cuz of Covid and being home and how much TV we're watching. , we've always kinda watched watch tv, but like one of the. really drives me nuts is when you're watching a commercial or a movie and they pipe in the sound of somebody eating or swallowing or chewing. And I'm like, why?

That is not necessary. And I will very quickly change the channel, mute it, do whatever I can because I'm like, why would you do that? . But for the most part, that's because we're home. That's been it. I sleep in a separate room from my husband because he's snores. And I don't wanna smother him , so I sleep in a different room and that has worked out well. ?

[00:03:39] Adeel: Yeah, Macy, I think I remember Maisie earlier on, like maybe first, second season. So some of them, they have separate bedrooms. Yeah. Typically separate. Even, I often don't end up even off often sleep. Oh I'm usually working on something at night, so I end up sleeping, whatever, wherever I, whatever I'm doing the project that I'm working on.

But but yes, that's definitely have similar snoring issues, , so I

[00:03:59] Courtney: understand that. Yeah. He also, my husband does this, not my husband, it's the kid. He. Cups all the time, or like his silverware, his plate or whatever. And I know he is not doing it to be mean, but like my head explodes , when he, especially when he drops a cup, I can be in another room and he drops that cup and I'm, yeah.

Immediately like ready to yell at him. I don't . , which I'm really hard not to snap and snark. Not only at him, but at kind of everybody. , I have always been very. sensitive to the, I know that the sounds that people are making are second nature and they're not thinking about it. So I try not to give a glare and not good at not doing it, but I try not to.

. And I try to remind myself that they're not doing it to make me want to do bad things. It's just they're breathing . Correct. And they happen to have a whistle in their nose, or they're snapping dumb because they're. .

[00:04:58] Adeel: Did you? And you said, yeah, sounds like it's gotten worse around Covid, and I don't even know, A lot of people have talked about the whole kind of claustrophobic nature of of Covid and you're suddenly now feeling trapped.

You're hearing more sounds more often that you, that maybe have triggered you in the past. It sounds like it's your experience as well, right? That kind of everyone's closed in, or everyone has was closed in and our, we. , those of us working from home, we're still , we are ho, fundamentally, basically ho locked down.

We happen to be able to do stuff and leave, but we're basically all now voluntarily at home in a way. ,

[00:05:33] Courtney: and I've liked not having to deal with some of the office stuff. There was, I worked in an office and it was me and three other women in this one fairly sizable room. But one woman had acrylic nails and the clicking of her fingernails on the keyboard, I couldn't do it.

And one of the other women cleared her throat every five, 10 seconds. Yes. Yeah. And one of them wore like shoes that would flop on her feet, and she dragged her feet. And I was just like, oh, I'm gonna lose it. And so I started wearing headphones and I had to wear a sign, or there was a sign on my desk that said you had to knock because I couldn't hear you, because I couldn't work and I couldn't focus.

Just those four sounds going on at all times.

[00:06:17] Adeel: And how was that? Did they let, were they cool with you wearing headphones? Nobody

[00:06:21] Courtney: said anything otherwise. Okay. , I I would just put 'em

[00:06:25] Adeel: things. Yeah.

[00:06:26] Courtney: And it would be like, okay, I'll ask forgiveness later. Cause I don't really Yeah. Tell a lot of people about it.

, the few times I have for the most. I've had a few friends that are like, oh, that drives me crazy too. And so I was like, oh, good. But the other people just look at you like, what ? I'm like, nevermind . I'm just gonna go back to being anti-social .

[00:06:45] Adeel: Yeah. That's, yeah, that's you. You never know.

And then yeah, the deer in the headlights reaction is it's. I dunno. Sometimes it's worse cuz it's now you don't, now you have to, you don't know how to react

[00:06:56] Courtney: back at. And I really don't like it when I tell someone and then they're constantly like, oh, does this drive you crazy?

I'm like not yes. Until you said it. Now it is . Because I can sometimes distract myself. I hum a lot. And people always thought that I was just like, happy You're lucky humming. And I'm like, no, it's so that I. Commit homicide and kill all of you.

[00:07:14] Adeel: And is the humming to to mask the sound or is it to distract yourself?

I'm curious. I think it's

[00:07:21] Courtney: both. , if I'm humming most of the time I just hear my own humming. I don't hear

[00:07:26] Adeel: that. Oh, it's interesting. Yeah. Cuz . Yeah, some people, some people stick their fingers around their ears and move their fingers around to generate some white noise, but with humming, you're you're not necessarily trying to mask it, but you are in a way maybe just covering up the sound.

[00:07:40] Courtney: Yeah. And I'm not humming really loud, but if you're standing next to me, you'll hear that I'm kinda

[00:07:44] Adeel: tunneling. Yeah. Interesting. And that's enough for you. That's yeah. That's cool. I've heard that as a coping mechanism. Have you, do you do. Mimicry as well, where you try to copy the sound.

I know that is even some research that is pointed to some explanations for that. I'm just curious , if that's one part

[00:07:58] Courtney: of your toolbox. , no, I think mostly because the idea of making the sound that's making me crazy. Yeah. Yes. Terrifying. I'm like, no,

[00:08:06] Adeel: thank you, . Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool. And yeah, and your husband, obviously, you have one child who's, too young.

To know what it is, but you're your have obviously, have you told your husband, obviously if you're sleeping in separate rooms, he's somewhat aware. , but you're sensitive to sounds .

[00:08:22] Courtney: Yeah, he he drinks, so I was trying to think about it last week. I can't remember when I told him. And I feel like it, he drinks a lot of water with ice in and like the sound of ice cubes, clinking can Yes.

Start to make me twitchy. and we'd be sitting on the couch like watching TV or doing whatever, and he when he drinks, he does it in repetitions of three, which is another, which just makes me go even crazier where I'm like, oh my God, you know

[00:08:52] Adeel: that, but you're doing it three times. Yeah.

[00:08:54] Courtney: I haven't really pointed out the whole repetition part of it drives me nuts.

But he definitely knows that like the drinking and the swallowing and like the s. and I'm like, can you not surf that ? Yeah. But I've been really big with telling him not to tiptoe around me. Like again, I just try to make it knowing that he's not doing it on purpose and so I'm trying not to be that person in the room.

Oh, okay. I'm a therapist.

[00:09:24] Adeel: Sorry, were you saying. Oh, my

[00:09:26] Courtney: therapist is you're placating. And I'm like, I know , but I just don't wanna be that person that's Hey, can you shut the hell up?

[00:09:34] Adeel: Yeah. A lot of us, we don't even necessarily need it to be a big deal. We just need people Oh yeah.

We don't need people to like tiptoe or ask us constantly what is this okay or is that okay? It's more about just having some awareness. I'm just realizing that there is some acknowledgement and willingness to try is usually enough.

[00:09:54] Courtney: Yeah. Just like when I, one of the offices, I had gotten a different position in that job where I was in the office with the three, and I got my own office with a door and I was like, sweet baby Jesus.

And. More often than not go in. And I always get in 30 to 40 minutes before people, cause I'm not a morning person. And I'm like, don't talk to me. And if you say Good morning, I'm like, oh, I could throw my coffee at you. Like you could say morning, but oh, okay. And so I would just walk in and close my door.

Yeah. And people were like, oh, you're just antisocial. And I'm like, no. The guy across the hole clicks and ticks and does all this other crap. And so my bat. Can't focus on anything other than that. So I just gotta close my door

[00:10:40] Adeel: and ah, so you get in early, so you don't have to do that walk of the, walk down the office where you have to say more to everybody.

Yeah. Okay.

[00:10:50] Courtney: And I went through the side and I like would just be really, people I'm sure thought I was very antisocial. Cause I didn't like the. Lunches where we would all sit in the lunch room. I'm like, oh, thank you.

[00:11:01] Adeel: I eat those. Yeah. , it's not just for the sounds. I just don't need No

[00:11:04] Courtney: it's like I don't, yeah. Don't make me feel of your friend .

[00:11:09] Adeel: It's funny cuz it but usually, if, yeah, it's interesting if for Yeah. Even if I'm like really good friends with the people I work with, I just don't want to sit around, have lunch with them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Why don't we, why don't we rewind way back to kinda early days for you.

When did you start noticing growing up that this was a thing? I think

[00:11:32] Courtney: the earliest that I really remember it is sitting at the kitchen table with my brother every morning when we would have breakfast and being like, oh my God, could you eat any milk? . Why are you slurping that milk?

Like what is happening? Why can't you just eat like a normal human being? And he's four years younger than I am, and my mom would just tell me to, have more tolerance. everything was just that I needed to be more tolerant. And I'm pretty sure that's where a lot of the anxiety that I have now is related to the, you gotta be more tolerant.

But I'm like, no. The sound of him smacking his lips is making me wanna drown him in his. and I eight .

[00:12:11] Adeel: Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say around eight. What was the, was there anything happening at home around that time or in the world around you, in your environment that was different or changing other than obviously, that you're getting to that, that age when everything changes inside

[00:12:25] Courtney: Yeah. No, not that I can think of. Life was pretty great. I lived, my father worked for Disneyland and my parents used it as a daycare when you could let an eight. walk around Disneyland by herself. I had three out of the four grandparents and they were great. And I had summers at the beach and life was pretty great .

[00:12:45] Adeel: Interesting. Okay. That goes the there goes the idea of trauma, early, early childhood trauma causing, causing,

[00:12:51] Courtney: The only kind of traumatic thing was that I hit my head on. Coffee table when I was four. , and I needed to have plastic surgery. But I don't, I have no memory other than feeling they wrapped me in a post to keep my arms down, but that's the only thing that I can remember is the bright light and not being able to move

[00:13:09] Adeel: my arms. Okay. Interesting. Okay. And then your, after your brother started driving you crazy, did that start to proliferate to other family members?

I'm curious how that path went. The journey ?

[00:13:22] Courtney: Yes. My mother is Scottish and so she drinks tea kind of 24 hours. Is it? Yes. And right, like between the slurping and the swallowing and the clinking of. The spoon and the cup, I'm just like, Nope, I gotta go . And so I just leave. At first it was leaving the room.

Now I have to be like outside . Yeah. It's like my bat ears hone in on the fact that she's drinking and I need to listen to that, even though it makes me wanna rip my ears off.

[00:13:53] Adeel: Yeah. And and okay, interesting. And then the reaction again, I'm assuming was still. you're being tolerance.

Or

[00:14:00] Courtney: tolerance. Yeah.

[00:14:01] Adeel: . And was that was your brother starting to tease you? I'm curious, were you being, starting to get I don't know, getting some kind of hostile reactions or,

[00:14:11] Courtney: no, not really. I think he was more shut up and just turn the cereal box around so I could see the back of the cereal.

Yeah. Yeah. And he was less concerned with what my complaints were and more that he just wanted to look at. It was his turn to look at the side, at the back of the cereal box. Ah, and he was like four. So yeah, he was little.

[00:14:32] Adeel: And how were you dealing with it? Was it what were you coping mechanisms or reactions?

Obviously you said you needed to just get further and further away.

[00:14:39] Courtney: I think that's it.

[00:14:40] Adeel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:42] Courtney: not throwing points and then the whole, no, I never did any of the visceral kind of stuff. I don't know if some of that was fear of retribution. My parents weren't big into spanking or any of that stuff, but , you got the look and you if you got the look that you didn't get any other warnings after that look, and so I would just figure something else to. and then once I got to 11 or 12 and hormones started to take over, there was definitely more snapping and Oh yeah. Verbal like freak out and then stomp off and slam my

[00:15:14] Adeel: door.

specifically related to misophonia or, I don't know if it was

[00:15:19] Courtney: just that or if it was just kind of everything.

[00:15:22] Adeel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. And were you experiencing an anxiety around that time? I'm just curious. There were, there's comorbid stuff happening at that age.

[00:15:30] Courtney: I don't remember. I don't remember it being a thing at school.

Yeah. I remember being more annoyed at if people were touching the stuff in my desk. if my desk wasn't the way I left it when I went home. , we used to put. Books in behind our desk, like on this thing that you would have to make at the beginning of the school year. And it would make me crazy if somebody touched my books or Yeah.

Rearranged them. Or if theirs was messy. I couldn't stand it if their desk was messy or if their bag on the back of their desk was messy. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if it's, cuz there was so much sound happening that I couldn't, it wasn't one thing I could focus on, but visually I could focus.

what I perceived as disorder.

[00:16:13] Adeel: . , maybe. You, all, yeah. All comes back to I don't wanna say like needing control cause it's not like we're control freaks or anything, but there's some, yeah. Yeah. I would call it characterizing more like something disturbing the order, an order that we expect or need that our body needs.

did and were you then there's a whole miso esia, I don't know if you're familiar with that term, but the whole visual trigger, did that start to form around that time as well? Or has it been an issue with you as well, like watching people make sounds or something around that? .

[00:16:45] Courtney: I didn't really notice that until I started, oddly enough, listening to your podcast and I'm like, stop.

Sorry, shit, . And I was like, oh shit. That's, yeah. Dammit. That's a good point. Shit, .

[00:16:56] Adeel: Yeah. It's a double edged sword. Definitely has been. It's helped a lot of people, but maybe caused as many new. .

[00:17:04] Courtney: But I definitely can notice if someone, like I watch a lot of baseball and , I can tell I would go crazy in a dugout just from watching.

Oh yeah. The sheer amount of chewing that's happening. Yeah. And the spiting just be like, .

[00:17:17] Adeel: Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's something that obviously evolves. So did you, so other than the so the stuff being out of place, how did. Did outside of the house at school, you didn't really obviously you didn't know what it was.

Did it start to affect your grades at all, your social circles?

[00:17:35] Courtney: Not that I'm, not that I can remember. My grade stuff took a hit in high school, but that was because of my family dynamic changing. But I don't really I think it was more that there was just so many sounds happening that I.

Pick up on just the one Yeah. Or the three things that were driving me nuts.

[00:17:56] Adeel: Okay. Okay. At, so at school it wasn't okay. Yeah. It didn't seem to be a as much of a factor at school did it when things started to change at home in, in high school. Did you miss phone change as well?

[00:18:08] Courtney: I don't think so.

, but maybe because I didn't really know what it. Yeah. And I still, in ni in the mid nineties, I still thought I tried aging myself. I still thought it was, I think we're the same age, just that I had . I just, that I had bat ears and yeah, I could just hear, it was my superpower.

I think I did say one time in high school when the question was, if you could have a super hero power, what would it be? And I was like, I already have one. Yeah. And it's bad ears and I can hear stupid stuff. Most most people can't hear and they don't care if they hear it, but yeah.

[00:18:41] Adeel: What do people think about that?

Did you tell friends at all? Like in other than that one time, not in

[00:18:49] Courtney: high school. But I think some of that was, I was quiet in high school. And I went to a very small all girl high school in. girls are mean . And in high school they're especially mean.

And so you just did what you could to not stand out. And . I've always had that. I don't wanna stand out, like I don't want to necessarily go to a party, but I want you to invite me to a party and be okay that I'm gonna say no, that I'm not gonna go. that's hard to do in high.

[00:19:17] Adeel: Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. Okay. So I guess yeah, so then as you're like leaving high school, how did things as you're becoming, going out in the world maybe college. Did you go to college? Kinda, how was it? How was it? Post

[00:19:30] Courtney: high school you did though. , yeah. I went to a couple junior colleges.

I just wasn't, I don't know how much of it was that I wasn't. Not geared for school, but like I'm not school at the time didn't entice me. So I went right to working. And I worked in a hotel. For the most part. That was great cuz again, it's loud and yeah. There's always movement and there's always stuff going on.

And a lot of the times I'm, because I'm so organized and like overly anal about stuff being organized , a lot of time I was. Organizing stock closets by myself, . I was like, great, nobody's around me and I'm tearing apart a closet and putting it back together in an order. Be fashion. This is amazing.

Were your parents

[00:20:18] Adeel: then? I started, I'm just curious just to dig into that. Were your parents at all clean freaks or to to use that term or super concerned about order or, I'm just curious where you got that from, if

[00:20:30] Courtney: I'm pretty sure my mother is very orderly.

I know she's very orderly. Things have a place and they should be where they should be. If you

[00:20:39] Adeel: ever had anything, oddly enough at a place at home, I'm curious, would did you hear about it? Did you get the glare for things like that?

[00:20:45] Courtney: Oh, yeah. For being as incredibly anally organized and particular about stuff at school and work.

Not my bedroom. My bedroom was just like a bomb. Went off all the time, and that didn't stop until I was 30. I didn't finally pull my head outta my ass and start making my room look. not like a teenager until I was 30. Yeah.

[00:21:07] Adeel: Yeah. So you took those joined up posters down and Teen beat.

Okay. It was more like Milli Van Vanilli. Yeah. I was gonna what am what, where am I getting these references? But yeah. Milli Vanilli, exactly. Okay. In interesting. Yeah, just . Yeah. Then that's interesting. I'm wondering how these are it's unknown yet how some of these are things are related, but there could be, that could be one of the, I don't know, something that kind of cross pollinated over from your mom kind of making, maybe you feel I don't know, I don't wanna say guilty or just feel pressured for keeping things clean and then that's somehow like gravitating towards sound.

[00:21:40] Courtney: Yeah, I think it's a Catholic school thing.

[00:21:43] Adeel: Oh, you went to your Catholic school? School was a Catholic school,

[00:21:46] Courtney: yeah. Okay. And I went to Catholic school from kindergarten all through 12th grade.

[00:21:51] Adeel: And so you're familiar with guilt ,

[00:21:52] Courtney: the concept of guilt? Yes. and like the concept of not making a big deal about myself and Yeah.

Sacrificing my own personal comfort or whatever. , I am not a practicing Catholic, nor have I been since high school. , But yeah, I think that's where a lot of the cleanliness in Orderly came from. Is school, because the same thing with being early, I'm, I had to fight not to log into Zoom 15 minutes early, because that's what I do.

I'm notoriously early.

[00:22:20] Adeel: Yeah. Because if not, you're late. So am I. Yeah. Yeah. I'm notorious early and but yeah, I get, I think I'm, I know I get that from my parents always showing at the parties early and. Yeah, just feeling that pressure to do that. Interesting. Okay, so yeah. So yeah. As you're, yeah.

As you've, as you're an adult you're at one point, at some point you started to check down the Milli Vanilli posters. So when did you realize this was a thing and had a name and that there were other people with it?

[00:22:44] Courtney: I was trying to think about that.

Cause somebody was talking about a New York Times article.

[00:22:48] Adeel: . Cohen. Yeah. That doesn't run.

[00:22:52] Courtney: Yeah. Yeah. And it had to have been before that, but that, I remember hearing about it, but I have no strong memory of being like, oh, I remember reading something and somebody saying something to me and being like, oh shit, that's me.

And yeah. But I couldn't pinpoint exactly, yeah. When that was.

[00:23:13] Adeel: Gotcha, gotcha. And then, but whenever it was did things change for you after then? Did you start. Talk about it more openly or just I don't know, put bookmark, bookmarked it for later.

[00:23:24] Courtney: A little bit of both. I mentioned it to my mom one time and it was like it, a shrug off.

I got, I definitely got the shrug. Yeah. And I was like, okay it's new. I'm not expecting anybody to. to know anything about it cuz I barely know anything. And then that quiet please. Documentary, it was when that Kickstarter Yeah. Was going for that. It was when I really dove into. Man, this is the thing, and I might be part of this thing.

And so I had taken part in the, I had given money to the campaign, but I couldn't pull myself together enough to do an interview like I wanted to. I just couldn't, and so I didn't one of my regrets.

[00:24:10] Adeel: Yeah. Yeah. I know what, no that's I think, as awareness this is a big step.

Coming on the podcast is gonna help a lot of people like you. And I'm sure there'll be many opportunities in the future to, but yeah. Yeah. I had, I'm sure you, you may have heard I had Jeffrey on, on the podcast couple months ago. A few months ago. Yeah, that was a good conversation.

But yeah, that, that's, and my therapist has

[00:24:28] Courtney: never heard of it, and so I recommended that particular episode to her. to listen to.

[00:24:35] Adeel: Cool. Okay. And yeah. So what, yeah, let's talk about that. I guess that so I'm assuming you, you've you went to your therapist for non-point related stuff. I'm curious if they, obviously they had not heard about it, have they, what's their reaction been since then, since they've, learned a little bit about it?

She's

[00:24:52] Courtney: asked a couple times. Like most recently, she asked how to spell it . Okay. And then that's

[00:24:58] Adeel: one

[00:24:58] Courtney: step baby steps. Yeah. And then when I mentioned to her going on this, then she wanted more info. So it, it felt like that it was secondary. But then when I was making strides to do stuff with it, she was taking a step further on her end.

[00:25:18] Adeel: . Yeah, no, that's very good. And I've had several therapists come and researchers come on a podcast. They, those might be good episodes to listen to. And I have some actually coming up as well. Oh, cool. Some of, most of 'em having missed dysphonia, but actually some of 'em not having misophonia, which might be an interesting perspective.

So Okay. Cool. And then and then you said, you mentioned to your mom, she shrugged it off. Has that changed or has that just been a kind of constant shrug?

[00:25:45] Courtney: Pretty constant. , I mentioned it again earlier in the week and it was what's that? I'm like, oh, I'll forget it. ? Yeah. I don't wanna, I think

[00:25:50] Adeel: you're not, go through this again.

Yeah. ,

[00:25:52] Courtney: So she's got a lot going on too. So there's that Catholic guilt again with not, wanting to be the problem. But I can't fix her. I can only fix kind of me at the time. So yeah, once I can get myself figured out and, hopefully a spot where I'm not constantly a raw nerve, I might be quicker too.

Kind of smack back with okay, we need to talk.

[00:26:15] Adeel: And so I'm assuming at like family events and holidays and whatnot, you just do what we usually do is just not really bring it up and escape when we need to. And

[00:26:24] Courtney: yeah. My mom is one of five, so there's a lot of people all the time.

Christmas and Thanksgiving, all that is typically 40 plus people. , there's a lot of noise and so there's a lot of crowd white noise that I don't. There's never been a moment where we've been sitting at like Thanksgiving dinner and I'm listening to clinking or Yeah, chewing because there's so much noise.

There's always somebody talking, so and they're usually talking loud and if there's

[00:26:52] Adeel: 40 people, the venues probably not like some tiny studio apartment. At least you can go to a another room or something or step outside. Yeah. Actually you can step outside. No one's gonna notice

[00:27:02] Courtney: probably for while.

There's always. The adult table and then the kids' table, which yeah, the kids' table's the one to sit at cuz it's the loudest.

[00:27:09] Adeel: Exactly. Yeah. What's the good thing about having a kid? You always have an excuse to go somewhere else. So

[00:27:14] Courtney: Yeah, once I became an adult and I sat at the adult table, I was like, this is boring.

I'm mad at you.

[00:27:18] Adeel: Yeah. One thing we also do is always offer to help with the dishes or get drinks for people so we don't have to be trapped sitting some. And what about other, so you have a big family and I've talked to a lot of people who have had, who have found other family members who haven't.

Have you brought up with anybody else?

[00:27:36] Courtney: I brought it up with one of my aunts and she, it was very early on, so I don't. , she really comprehended or understood it. Yeah, she was being funny and the response was, oh man, sorry, your brain's broken. Okay. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, me too. Yeah. Gotcha.

My family doesn't talk about their feelings. They've got the Scottish like stiff upper lips thing going on, and Yeah. So even if they did, I don't think anyone would talk about it.

[00:28:04] Adeel: Yeah. That's super frustrating. A lot of cultures. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. And then yeah, you and how, but then what about in the workplace of you, I guess we talked about how you, avoid avoid people as much as you can.

Has that ever caused an issue, if you ever found anybody else maybe at work or. Work, work adjacent to clients or vendors or whatever who have had it as well, or maybe be showing signs?

[00:28:30] Courtney: Yes. When I moved to Maryland and I started working at a association, a professional association, there were two women who I mentioned that the sound of X drove me nuts and they both said, oh, me too.

And one definitely. Is a little more intense than I am. Yeah. Oh, okay. And one is a little less intense than I am. So we made a good trio because we didn't, we purposely we were really well aware of each other's kind of sound stuff. So like we would eat together, but we would make sure it was somewhere loud or

And nobody's chewing gum. And nobody's crinkling bags of chips or. eating popcorn .

[00:29:15] Adeel: Yeah. It's, yeah, it's good. But they were,

[00:29:18] Courtney: yeah, they were the only three of the, I think 50 something people in the office that I was aware of, or that I felt comfortable enough was being like, that sound you make, it makes me hate you.

Like I, it was just those two that I, I

[00:29:31] Adeel: would tell that too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And how did you see, you found out that they like I'm just curious how that even came up .

I

[00:29:38] Courtney: think we were either at lunch together or we were traveling to the conference. Cuz we used to do conferences a couple times a year.

And I feel like we were traveling together. Yeah. And we were on the plane and none of us were opening the bags of peanuts or whatever thing that they gave. And it was everyone looking at each other oh, and I was still really new. Yeah. Into the association. So I'm still really and I just haphazardly said, oh God, that's driving me crazy. And there that turned into a whole conversation. Yeah. Okay. On the way to the place. I was like, oh,

[00:30:11] Adeel: cool. Gotcha. Then okay. And then yeah, other than not opening your bags of of penis, like what are some of your other coping mechanisms?

Like just kind of day to day outside of your office? Is it, I know there's not that many, but you do, you, you always have earbuds or even earplugs around or I'm just curious, like how you get through them.

[00:30:30] Courtney: Yeah. Some of the things like, I won't rip open a bag of chips.

I cut it . Because it's quieter, so I'll cut it. I do wear earbuds quite a bit. I got AirPods recently. I don't know why I was fighting them for so long, but I did they're

[00:30:41] Adeel: not super cheap ,

[00:30:43] Courtney: so I got those and those are helpful, but I have to be able to hear the three year old.

If he's mom, I need X. And so I'm like so I have it in one ear, which can usually distract me. But the

[00:30:56] Adeel: pros have the AirPod pros have this like transparency mode, which seems to raise the volume of or it makes it like voices a little bit clearer, cut through the music or the sound or the noise.

Whatever you listen to say that can't help. But but yeah, you're right. It's, you just, yeah, you need to be aware of your surroundings in some situations.

[00:31:17] Courtney: Get really. A lot. , and I think I, I zone out in an attempt to go somewhere else. Exactly. So people will be like, are you there? And I'm like, oh yeah, I'm sorry, what?

Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure how much of that is the coping or how much of that is the anxiety thing, but Gotcha. Okay. It's

[00:31:34] Adeel: what I do. Do. And do you for this, or, obviously not for this, but are any like I don't know, dabbled with any medications or have. Has any, has anything that you've done, I don't have to say any specifics of anything you've done from other conditions maybe helped at all in your misophonia, do you think?

sometimes anxiety tools can help out. I'm just or not, I'm just kinda curious.

[00:31:55] Courtney: Not that I couldn't think of or that I know of. mostly. No . Short answer town.

[00:32:04] Adeel: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's just a another proof point that this is this is its own thing. It's not, should not be bucketed with all the other more popular disorders that are out there.

. Interesting. Okay, cool. Yeah, I guess we're, yeah we're about heading to about 45 minutes. Actually, how did you find out about the podcast? It seems like you're. You knew about the article but you haven't really talked to too many people. Did you Google around for it or are you maybe in some of the online groups?

Obviously you know about the the documentary and Jeffrey and I have been going back and forth sometimes on on the

[00:32:35] Courtney: Facebook groups. Oh. He'd be so upset to know. I still haven't watched it. Oh, I have the dvd. I, but I couldn't bring myself to watch it and I know where it is. I know where it's sitting.

I keep sitting. I need to watch it.

[00:32:48] Adeel: And he would understand. I told him that I told him that I got it, but I couldn't watch it and one go cuz I would just, it was just, it's such an emotional thing to watch people intervene. So he has, he, he actually on the episode, he said that a lot of people tell me that they bought it, but they just have it sitting there.

They can't bring themselves to, to. So it's not uncommon.

[00:33:08] Courtney: I think part of why I didn't watch it too is I was in forums years ago. I feel like it was Dahoo, or maybe it's a different one and it might have been Facebook before I left Facebook, but I was starting to get agitated slash disappointed slash oh man.

Because a lot of it was people complaining about people making sounds and. Being proud of themselves for either the glares they were giving or the snappy snarky responses they were saying to people. And I was like, oh, that's just not fair. John's sitting on the train, sipping his coffee, doesn't know that it's driving you crazy, and it's not fair to ruin his day because we hear that sound more than most.

And so I think it, I dumped out of the forum. because I was like, this doesn't feel helpful. This just feels like people being proud that they're being mean to people when they're making sounds that are just

[00:34:09] Adeel: natural. Yeah. I think a lot of us we are excited to join those forms, but they quickly turn into these weird rants, which end up being like a lot of other Facebook groups.

Not very helpful. I think it's not I don't think that's the majority. I think that's has just happens to be the people that writee the most, to do the most post. But but yeah but then, yeah, then, non-use phones hear about that stuff or see that stuff and then they just assume that we're, complain.

We're just big complainers. So I think, yeah, we're just being assholes. Yeah. , which is another reason why I wanted this podcast is just to let's give a, let's talk like normal people and and just expose the fact that it's not just a bunch of. Yeah,

[00:34:45] Courtney: that's how I found the podcast was that it was starting, I was starting to recognize that I think some of the anxiety in the constant level nine that I'm at is because I'm fighting off the sounds that drive me bad and I'm not telling anybody. So now I'm just bottling everything. And so then it was like, I gotta do something. And I just recently started listening to podcasts cuz I can't , most of the time I can't focus. I'm like, oh look, wind, and I can't listen to people to talk.

There are some podcasts that I couldn't listen to because I couldn't stand the sound of their voice or the breathing patterns they were doing when they were talking. Or the whistles or the mouth noise that they were making while they were talking and I'm like, oh, this isn't gonna work.

[00:35:27] Adeel: Yeah, it's interesting. I just had this conversation for with I was in a meeting related. A future top teacher project. I'll share at some point, but but yeah, the I mentioned it cuz people have I don't know if you've found this to be true, but because I actually edit out a lot of the , definitely about lip smacking and a weird if I, if I breathe weird or inhale too much I take as much of that out as possible before publishing.

I'm curious if if you've noticed any difference listening to this podcast versus other

[00:35:50] Courtney: ones? Yes. I think with yours, for the most part, it's only been, and I'm sorry to the other people I called in podcast, it's just the sound of their voice. I'm like, Nope, can't take it. And yeah. I move on.

Yeah. And I feel that reason. It's just how they talk. But yeah, I'm like I can't, and so I don't

[00:36:07] Adeel: Oh, un under understandable. And sometimes there's sounds I can't get at it that happen to me in the background, but it's honestly another reason for me to just get get some quality transcripts, ads that people can read those episodes on their own.

We'll, super, super cool. Yeah, Courtney, great to have you on the show. And yeah. Thanks. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for. Thank you, Courtney. Very enlightening and I know lots of people, new parents, and many others can relate to your story. If you like this episode, don't forget to leave a quick review or rating or just hit the five stars wherever you listen to this podcast.

You can hit me up, but by email@hellomissonpodcast.com or go to the website mr phony podcast.com. It's even easier just to leave a message on Instagram at MyPhone podcast. You can follow there on Facebook, support the show financially, maybe by visiting the Patreon and pato.com/myphone podcast. The music, as always is by Moby, and until next week, wishing you peace and quiet.