Paige - Healing Misophonia with Holistic Practices

S6 E29 - 3/21/2023
The episode features Paige, a holistic integrative healer based in New York City, who explores her multifaceted approach to managing misophonia. Paige's journey intertwines her professional life in tech and her passion for holistic healing—covering areas such as shamanism, meditation, energy, and sound healing. She attributes her understanding and management of her misophonia to a combination of these practices, emphasizing the importance of addressing the condition on physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual levels. Sharing her personal story, Paige discusses the healing power of indigenous plant medicine, neuroplasticity, and sound healing, as well as the supportive role of her husband and their collaborative work in launching a nonprofit focused on bridging science and spirituality in healing practices. Additionally, Paige highlights a life-changing concussion and its impact on her sensitivity to sound and misophonia. Her story is a testament to the power of holistic practices in managing misophonia and the value of community and shared experiences in understanding and navigating the condition.


Adeel [0:02]: This is Season 6, Episode 29. My name is Adeel Ahmad, and I have misophonia. This week I'm talking to Paige, a holistic integrative healer and founder of the Warrior Sanctuary Group, while also holding down a job at a tech startup. We go over a lot of fascinating ground in this hour. Shamanism, meditation, psychedelics, and indigenous plant medicine. neuroplasticity, past life healing, root chakra, sound healing, plus her own life story, of course, of adverse childhood relationships, a relatively recent concussion, and the emotional impact that hearing the stories on this podcast has had on her. Let me know what you think. You can reach out, of course, by email at hello at or find me on Instagram or Facebook at Misophonia Podcast. And if you can leave a quick review rating, that's always appreciated. It helps us rise up in the algorithms and reach more listeners. As always, thanks for the ongoing support of our Patreon supporters, which are helping us get more transcripts available for all to read. If you feel like contributing, you can read all about the various levels at slash misophonia podcast. All right. Here's my conversation with Paige. Paige, welcome to the podcast. It's exciting to have you here.

Paige [1:25]: Thank you. Yeah, I'm really excited to be here with you. Thanks for having me.

Adeel [1:29]: Yeah, so for listeners, Paige reached out and had a very interesting approach to everything. So I was super interested to hear about your story. So I guess, do you want to tell us where you are now and also leading into what you do?

Paige [1:47]: Yeah, so I'm currently located in New York City. And I also just wanted to give so much gratitude for this tremendous journey that we've all been on together. I feel like for the space you've created and also just the sacred healing that this podcast and everyone's story has really brought to my life. Oh, yeah. And I know I've heard some other people say that too. And so I just wanted to just share that sentiment. It's been really an interesting last couple of eight months. And so I wanted to talk a little bit about that too. Just, I guess that's leading into where I am and how I got here.

Adeel [2:21]: Absolutely. And however you want to get to those topics, yeah, I'd love to hear about that. I appreciate your kind words.

Paige [2:27]: Yeah. Well, and I think living in New York City, especially if kind of like having this sensitivity to sound has been really interesting. I've been here for almost nine years now. And by day, I have a wonderful job in tech that I love. I work for a software company. It's innovative, creative, and I work with like really incredible human beings. And I have a team and super supportive leadership. And so I feel like it's really allowed me to do my life's passion. Also, thank you to the pandemic for the remote work style. I think we've definitely all benefited a bit from that in certain aspects. But my passion is really working with integrative healing or what we call like living from the hard work. And it's multidisciplinary approach to like shamanism and it just wasn't a practice. um energy sound healing kind of like past life regressions ancestral plant medicines and um just so much more and so my journey with misophonia has really been about like holistic healing and i do a lot of energy work and meditation and yoga and really looking at anything happening in our lives as more of an intersection between the physical mental emotional emotional and spiritual bodies

Adeel [3:39]: and so yeah yeah yeah go for it all of that i would love to i know probably won't have to hit everything but yeah it's all fascinating stuff and yeah definitely this is a multi-pronged approach to to handle misophonia and i feel like everything you just said and if we you know start start with misophonia it will affect it sounds like it'll affect so many other aspects of our lives and vice versa like if you if you take those approaches for you know the other aspects it stands to reason that your misophonia can hopefully be more under control. But yeah, I'd love to hear everything you do there.

Paige [4:17]: Well, I love that you said that aspect too, of like the idea of like, say, I hear people say like, there's no cure to this or that. And it is really challenging to be, I think, in this space. But there's lots of different ways that things manifest within the body and outside of the body. And as part of yoga, like kind of the idea of like any call for attention is intimately connected to something else. So like with noise activations, it definitely speaks like very loudly and clearly sometimes. But that idea of being like, how deeply are we listening? And like, yes, there's like definitely a range of emotions that accompany that. But the question is, is this like, what is that calling to and how can we like journey deeper into that space? and so with my husband and i like my husband has been such a huge supporter of everything that i do really and i think that he's really only become aware of misophonia in the last couple of months um we launched yeah and we've been together for like five years and we do like very intimate work with one another especially like working just in the holistic healing space and And we've also been on our own journeys, etc. And we launched a nonprofit in 2020. And that was in the middle of the pandemic. And it was all around kind of like Eastern medicine, African traditions, and really trying to create a new era of recognized healing between science and spirituality. And like, we're not the first or anything like that, right? It's kind of joining this movement that's, I think, really emerged. And yeah, so it's been embracing, I think, that piece of me that has been part of my own healing journey. And it's healing. Like misophonia, I think that's part of one of the reasons why I wanted to speak about this is because it's something I haven't spoken about. And it's something I'm still, I think, really very much processing in terms of just like where it all came from and then where it's all going.

Adeel [6:08]: Yeah. Oh, yes. You're hitting upon a lot of my favorite, favorite kind of things to think about. Maybe we should, so many different places we can go, but maybe we should start with like, when did you first realize Mississippi had a name? And it was, you know, obviously I'm sure you knew about it a while ago, but maybe when did you realize it had a name?

Paige [6:27]: So I realized it had a name a couple of years ago, like maybe two and a half years ago. And it was because we have a cat that I absolutely adore and I love him so much. But there were like some moments where it just felt like it was extra aggregated or aggravated, I suppose, where it just felt absolutely unbearable. And the it is the emotions. And like for me, how it kind of shows up is in really severe kind of like self-loathing and self-harm thoughts were new. And so, yeah, and that hadn't happened before. Like, I think I've had. but pretty avoided behaviors and and how misophonia like came up was i think most recently was actually last summer i got a con so i was aggravated a couple years ago if you will where it was really like at the forefront of just sensation and it was at the bit like in the middle of the pandemic where i had you know realized that living in new york city like being with myself and silence was like exactly what I needed and more of the kind of like introverted nature of myself but also being you know good at socializing but not necessarily always loving it um yeah and so then last summer I actually got a concussion and it was in May and it was playing with my cat and I just went like boop and bumped my head And it was right on the temple. And I was like knocked out for a week, like not really functioning, limited memory recall. It was it was very challenging. And also, I'm deeply concerned for athletes. I don't know how there's contact to contact sports.

Adeel [8:04]: I'm so not into that. Yeah.

Paige [8:06]: Yeah. And so then I realized, like, I knew like misophonia was a kind of wiring of the brain potentially, or at least that was some of the research that I read at the time. but it was so activated like no sleep i was in extreme distress and agitation and for the first time like that's when i was experiencing kind of like those self-harming thoughts and it was like a plague of of hazy hatred like it didn't really feel like me and it was the first time i'd become aware of like a disassociative nature uh within myself and it wasn't that i was like in a state of trauma i was more just like curious about like who who is this right like this side of page and so i did a deep dive into misophonia and like the wiring of the brain and just so much of the content i think made a lot of sense from what i was also studying at the time which was like neuroplasticity um and joe dispensa and again i meditate pretty often well every day i have a daily practice and um i work with psychedelics and things so just thinking about how to change your mind i became like almost obsessive with understanding like where it was happening in the brain like which part is lighting up like i was trying to imagine like christmas trees or like anything with lights and my meditations and like okay that sound really bothers me assignment a siren just went by like where is it in my brain so i could target it you know and it kind of became like a game and then at that same time um i also got an email from mount sinai about doing one of their studies on misophonia and i hit all the criteria and so then that kind of started the journey like i think more in depth with like the research and like really trying to understand this about myself

Adeel [9:50]: So was the cat your first trigger? Or it was this concussion period when you really started to notice it?

Paige [9:58]: Yeah, that's a great question. My earliest memories of this is when I was five. But I think that's the important part of... the concussion and doing the study is because I also found your podcast and I was actually listening to a lot of the podcast stories. And then I just had a moment of, you know, what they call like memory reconciliation. and i it's probably spent a couple of weeks just kind of like pacing back and forth in my apartment listening to people's stories and just having this surge of remembrance of of my childhood and like who i was and i always knew it was like there were some things that were I knew of some of the significant things that had happened, but I didn't really understand who I was or why I might have responded that way or why I just didn't remember being present. And through that kind of activation or trigger of remembrance, I went into a complete spiral of my past. And it was a compassionate, but very, very challenging, painful remembrance of just how misophonia had shown up for me.

Adeel [11:07]: so was it did you have similar like you know walking on eggshells kind of um environment growing up maybe at in times like there was it was there some aspect of i don't know fear or something yeah that's a that's a great question and this I mean, you don't have to go into depth, but it's just, obviously, if you've heard a lot of episodes, you've heard a very similar kind of refrain.

Paige [11:32]: Sure. Well, and I think this is one of the big reasons, the deal, I thought it was important to, because it really kicked off, I feel like, a life's purpose work. um because i know that i'm not you know the only one based on this podcast but i think that there's a tremendous opportunity for us to like kind of do this surge of remembrance together because so much of western medicine focuses on like the symptoms and not necessarily the root of what where this comes from right and even deeper from the beyond just maybe this lifetime. And so I wanted to preface like some of the childhood experience that I had with Donna Jackson Nakazawa. And I think that Michael maybe have talked about her. He was in November. I think his podcast aired in November.

Adeel [12:16]: Oh, Michael. Right. Yeah.

Paige [12:17]: Yeah. And so I know he's kind of the school of thought as well of like thinking about like the adverse childhood experiences. Are you familiar with those bases? Yeah.

Adeel [12:27]: I've become obsessed with this kind of, yeah. So I wanted to let you kind of talk about it. But yeah, I'm very much interested in, yeah, adverse, small T trauma, and potentially transgenerational, you know, these kinds of things. Just to preface this, I'm really interested in IFS, like internal family systems. And there's a lot of, I mean, the book talks about shamelessness as well. Another reason why I wanted to get you on to hear your take on it.

Paige [12:56]: on a lot of this oh thank you yes i mean so this is it's become so important to me as well because again like when i had that realization that i kind of had this disassociative nature to something of within myself like i started to really dive into that experience and so um yeah so looking at the aces it and for those kind of listening it basically speaks to toxic stress and family dysfunction and like the physical and emotional safety compromised and the situational factors that happen around that so divorce addiction depression and it's shown a clear scientific link between many types of childhood traumas and adult health disorders um and so one of the things that happened to me in my mid-20s was i also developed um autoimmune disease. And it was from inflammation and stress. And I actually like healed from that through some of the things that we can talk about in regards to misophonia. I'm getting to misophonia, sorry, the background.

Adeel [13:55]: This is great. Yeah, please continue.

Paige [13:57]: And so the, oh yeah, so the childhood memory. So it's a, and also with the ACE, it's a series of 10 questions. And out of that, I think like what Nakazawa points out is that one of the studies said that only 12.5% of 17,000 participants scored higher than a four. And I score a seven out of 10. And so it's significant in the sense of just like, where do we begin, you know? And like, who am I? How did I become the way that I am? And it really makes me wonder too about other populations that were at study. It's like, for example, black and brown children, mothers, fathers, immigrants, right? Like things that are distressing in the world. Like imagine going through the earthquakes that are happening right now, right? Or war zones. And I think about too, like how much domestic violence is raised from potentially being triggered by sound. Like these are things that I'm thinking about these days. Cause like for myself, I also identify as a black woman. We didn't have financial resources growing up. And I don't think that my story is like atypical. And the way that I kind of like the coping mechanism that I developed was being uber productive, as I call it. And I was totally masking as a good child to like survive and trying to like beat the odds. And I had a lot of like guides and support and I think teachers and healers along the way. But it just, it was like, so how my misophonia manifested was that like through this journey of remembrance, I realized that I was always very sensitive to sound. I had like supersonic hearing. So at five, I was annoyed by like the school boxes that had the crayons in them. And like, everyone was really excited to go shopping for school supplies. I literally was always thinking about how much noise it made in the classroom. Cause people like to open and close it and do all of these things. And I would just like run to the library and read. Like I loved being in the library. and and so like apart from that there was kind of other behaviors that started to show but they were all things that were rewarded by society so for example i was like a straight a student i was an athlete um i was president of like a lot of clubs in high schools top one percent i was prom queen which sometimes is like weird for me to think about because i don't love people that much and um or at least sometimes i feel that way on the inside you know like i love people but like from afar I got a full ride scholarship to college. And so for the most part, like looking back, you'd be like, oh, wow, like you're highly functioning. Like you did all of that stuff. But for the most part, it was definitely a place of pain and embarrassment and shame. And I couldn't really figure out why I felt that way. But that's just like I faked normal really, really well. embarrassment and shame from um if failing or the misophonia some of it was misophonia and how i'd feel some of it was just things that were happening around me like in my you know in my in my life too and so i developed like a like kind of a manic coping mechanism of just like working really hard and kind of surviving in that way And I was also just really self-aware and super mature. And I've heard other people say that as well, right? Like you just develop this incredible compassion and empathy for the world around me.

Adeel [17:12]: yeah a lot of people identify as hsp like highly sensitive people and feel like you know we feel like we're able to read the room sooner than most people or sense other people's um i don't know temperament more more clearly yes absolutely and i i really feel too like being in shamanism and that being a deep practice of mine is that i was really clued into

Paige [17:36]: my intuition and other types of energetic gifts because I loved like the quiet so much. And at the time I definitely had some odd behaviors. I would say like more avoidant, like a very difficult time navigating friendships and relationships over a period of time. And I still struggle with communication because like phones and beeps and notifications, like visual typing, talking, like... really the mode of communication is pretty stressful. But I don't think I would have said that it was stressful for me a year ago. I think I just felt like something was different. Like why can't I connect with people? And that would be the question that I would always ask myself is like, I feel like I just can't connect, not realizing that I was like avoiding certain behaviors. And like, for example, I also don't watch TV that much. I'm not a social media scroller. Like the whole, it's a lot of inundation of stuff.

Adeel [18:30]: and so it makes it difficult to connect with people if they're not in my space you know right so i guess it sounds like um yeah before a year or two ago you had missed a point you had this funny but didn't think of um it being anything that could be labeled um but it but now that you look back you're like oh okay yeah that kind of makes sense where it could have been a part of you yeah you're avoiding behavior. Did, with family and stuff growing up, did it, did it manifest? Did you, were you, were you triggered by them? Did they notice your reactions?

Paige [19:06]: Yeah, that's a, that's another great question. I, I was thinking a lot about this and I, I had, and masked so much from everyone that i feel that i just now i'm kind of exploring kind of like the true nature of who i am and what i expressed was a lot of like everything's gonna be okay right like it's kind of like um Finding Nemo, it's Dora who's swimming, you know, like just keep swimming, just keep swimming. Like that was absolutely me. So even causing like discomfort for anyone else, I just, I never did. Kind of people pleasing. Yeah, I would say like people pleasing. And also I just, I didn't have necessarily a lot of support. Like my, my parents had divorced very recently. I had experienced different forms of kind of like sexual abuse when I was very young, like at five, like that's kind of when the safety I think was compromised. I had been in house schools where there were street drugs and like just my mom was clinically depressed and like stuck in a universe of like pain and solitude, I would say. And my, you know, my dad was kind of grieving his own losses. I became a bulimic as a teenager and college student. And so there was so much chaos and stress that I didn't realize all of the things that were happening around me. Till recently, really, is when I was like, wow, that was all misophonia and how I would behave in those situations. And it was very eye-opening. As I said, I kind of walked around for a couple weeks crying, listening to other people's stories. Like that walking on eggshells, realizing that safety is a huge component to misophonia. And then I was asking myself, well, why didn't I feel safe? And so some of it is just... they said that remembrance of like what my truth was and how anxiety and depression had manifested, not in ways that people expect, right? Like I'm a patient of time and really I wasn't, you know, it was definitely suffering and silence.

Adeel [21:10]: yeah well i mean you know that i'll say at a young age like five years old your body doesn't really know when it's hard it's hard for it especially when it's not getting support know when you're actually safe or not and then it just kind of holds on to the same then you know maybe that's how it kind of develops a um

Paige [21:31]: it over develops some senses like hearing to kind of look out for danger because nobody else is doing that for you yes exactly and i have so much compassion like for my parents and i have a younger sister as well and like i just i think there was just a lot of an awareness like that's what eckert tall eckert tool talks about like the pain body and when it's active and i feel like sometimes in situations like that like there's this active energetic force that is hypervigilant or maybe it's absent or it's depressed or it's sad or it's raging. And so it's really difficult, I think, to be present in those moments and really understand like this is how it's showing up for me or this is how I'm showing up for myself or being able to see that in someone else, inclusive of like my parents and things. And so I think that was also another factor of like, I definitely had things at home that who activated me if you will right or triggered me but there was already so much in chaos that there wasn't even really that much room for me to express it that way so i just bottled it all in it was just yeah oh we know right right and i was pretty weird like i was running around doing so many things all the time and that was just to like keep a constant movement like i was always in activity somewhere outside or you know, painting or I was mowing the lawn. And I also through this remembrance realized I did a lot of things that had a noise component to it. And so I think I was even then like trying to understand or have a different expression of sound.

Adeel [23:10]: Yeah. So you're just constantly distracting yourself or just kind of keeping busy potentially to kind of like have a background noise all the time.

Paige [23:19]: Yeah. And I read a lot as well. And I had a wild imagination. So even now, this is one of the mechanisms I use is I start to animate kind of everything around me and turn it into a play or like, I don't know, a ninja movie. I had an animated tattoo series, like anything that would kind of catapult me out of the situation.

Adeel [23:41]: So you would think of, you would animate it in your head or literally just drop and start drawing?

Paige [23:46]: I did draw a lot, but I know I animate it in my head. Like that's still something that I do now. Yeah.

Adeel [23:53]: No, you know, I've heard about that as a potential therapy or coping method is to try to retake control of the sound around you by doing things like directing a film, like taking the sounds and maybe... um yeah like making a play or some kind of a background story which kind of like um you know takes out the uh well maybe reduces the danger and gives you a little bit more control over the situation it's interesting that you've you'd already discovered that yeah i i think it's a i mean it's it taps into the creative and helps kind of get out of that fight fight or fleet freeze and not that i would have been able to say that then but

Paige [24:36]: even now it's interesting to just, you know, kind of laugh at how my brain works and instead be like, wow, what a gift, you know, like this is a superpower that I'm able to transmute this feeling that I'm having into a cartoon, you know, and tend to just make the situation lighter. Because I feel like sometimes it can just feel so isolating and heavy and in your head, right? Like sometimes it's helpful to be like, how can I be in my head a different way if that's what's currently happening? But it takes a lot of awareness and thinking about the bodies in different ways. And also, I think being able to see the world in color again and being able to feel vibrant in a way that feels inaccessible sometimes.

Adeel [25:21]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And speaking of kind of being in your head, maybe linking it to shamanism work, you know, if you read about IFS, it's talking about parts, you know, the parts inside you. Some of them are in exiles. Some of them are trying to protect those exiles. Do you think about... parts of yourself um as being a component of this except personalities inside you that are um trying to protect you from something or because the book when I just mentioned shamanism so I'm kind of maybe jumping to shamanism but I'm curious if that is kind of like have you incorporated that into maybe your misophonia work and does what I just said make any sense like in terms of dealing with inner separate parts of yourself yeah I mean for in the shamanic work like shamanistic work it all says that

Paige [26:20]: you know, there's this idea of being able to call parts back to ourselves so that we are able to experience a different level of wholeness, right? Like we kind of go through life kind of like leaving, forgetting, something's being taken from us, if you will, right? And when we start to nurture and nourish kind of those like unloved parts of self or realizing that there's something here that is missing that feels uniquely like part of our soul, it's a lot of it is inner child work and I think there's a component to a shamanic work and I use drumming and flutes and also like our own voice is very powerful to access like really deep parts of the unconscious. And again, that's through sound or meditation or sometimes just with intention. Other times with the assistance of psychedelics, I know that's come up as well. The idea is that you can call back these lost or separated or hidden parts of ourselves with the intention of integrating that experience or the wisdom or the love or the gratitude, like really integrating that back into ourselves with a level of understanding that's full of self-compassion and love.

Adeel [27:31]: Yeah, I love what you said there. I mean, the self-compassion, the gratitude, because as I've read more about some of this stuff, you know, my thinking has definitely shifted to, you know, at the beginning of this journey, thinking, oh, it's some kind of like a... a defect in the brain or like a you know a defective wiring whereas now you know i feel like it's you know a part of you that actually has good intentions was trying to protect you a long time ago but it's just it's just hasn't um doesn't realize that you've grown up and it's just is with in good faith trying to protect you which i think is amazing i mean The fact that it's potentially all it needs is, you know, some compassion to show that you love it. This, you know, this eternal part of you that's scared. I think it's, I don't know, A, it's beautiful.

Paige [28:22]: Yeah.

Adeel [28:22]: But it's a whole other paradigm in talking about, you know, these issues like misophonia, which were easily where...

Paige [28:31]: i think we too easily label them as defects and you know something that needs to be fixed yeah absolutely i think and that that form of kind of like memory reconciliation of like why why was i born this way right like how is this serving me it's if i if my my life path is cosmic right or designed to have us rediscover our gifts then this superpower is designed for me to understand so i can live more fully in my bliss like that concept i think feels very like in the sky and almost unobtainable because when you're thinking about like this being part of my purpose it's like really to live this way and I think the idea though is exactly what you said. Like, how can I look at it with like this loving compassion and say like, wow, this has served me so well. And one of my teachers, we talk about in yoga, we talk about dropping the technique. So once you've used a technique, right, to move through maybe like a physical pain or to move through a mental component right that you're saying like this technique has served its purpose therefore i no longer need it sometimes to work through depression you might need antidepressants so that you can feel balanced so that you yourself can move back to your wholeness right but like some of there's lots of techniques to get to a state of being right that's the ideal state of being for you in that moment but then it's time to drop the technique because we don't need it anymore right like or we've moved through that stage and so i think with misophonia sometimes like where i am right now and my healing journey is that part of remembering kind of all of those things that have happened and the way that I responded or reacted to them is so that I can understand the technique of misophonia, if you will. And I can tell myself that I am safe and protected and loved. And I know how to create boundaries. I know how to live within those boundaries. I can be expansive. You know, I can be expansive without necessarily having the self-harming pain, right? Like I don't need that type of alarm anymore right like i i'm now an adult and i can create kind of i have new ways of of raising awareness and i think like that loving inner dialogue that i've had with myself has been transformational

Adeel [30:53]: Yeah, and it's actually relatively new for me too. I mean, it's only been over the past year where I've actually, oh, yeah, wow, this is, I'm starting to remember things that happened, you know, certain patterns that happened during my childhood where I could totally see where a high sensitivity to sound would have been beneficial. So, yeah, I'm at the beginning of that dialogue too, but it's fascinating. So, and in terms of, actually, a couple other questions I'm going to throw out there randomly so I don't forget. Meditation practices, so that's another layer that I've been trying to add on for 2023. Do you have a specific practice that you do? Is it, I know you have music going on and sound bowls potentially. I'm curious, what does it look like for Paige?

Paige [31:41]: Yeah, for me, I... I like stillness so I am okay kind of being still like when I first really started to get into my body it was through yoga and that type of movement meditation was incredibly healing for me and being able to kind of connect it to the science of the body and also with the emotions and then that was something that was like very clearing and so a huge proponent of movement meditation I have, yeah, I think mostly like a strong Eastern medicine practice. When I talk about kind of like a journey state, I access that through breath work as well. So I almost always combine kind of like somatic breath work with just stillness or whatever I might need in those moments. And then I coach other people and myself also to sometimes do word meditation where it's just writing down like something that's in my physical state. my emotional state my mental state and then like a spiritual or or some you know state that's just out there for me to like feel outside of myself or oneself and i think those have been really really helpful and small bits at a time too five minutes 10 minutes 30 seconds anything that brings me stillness in the present moment is transformational

Adeel [33:05]: So, if I heard you correctly, you were doing a lot more movement meditation before, and now it's more stillness, just sitting. Okay. And do you have a regular time of day, or is it during a trigger, or after a trigger to calm down? I'm just curious. Related to misophonia, if there's anything in particular that you do.

Paige [33:26]: Yeah, great question. I find that the more consistent I am in my daily practices, the more balanced I am. And when I'm feeling imbalanced in any way, misophonia definitely flares. And again, now I'm looking at it as a, oh, it's calling attention to the fact that I am imbalanced somehow. And my stressors are there. And so morning time, I definitely... I like the space of just gratitude. And I know that people say that, and it sounds like, oh, everyone says that. Gratitude is so different for every person moment to moment. And so I sit with that often. um vipassana is another like meditation practice it's yoga kindu or yeah buddhism and then and night time and because sometimes i can be i it's very bizarre but i will be jolted awake in the middle of the night due to a sound that is barely a murmur And that was when I, that was, that was also when it drew a lot of attention to me that I was like, I need to really have practices around this is because how can I be, you know, completely in a deep sleep and then wake up like clammy, my heart racing, et cetera. I'm like, wow, what was that? And then I hear a sound and I'm like, wow, I can't believe that. Paige, your hypervigilant state has got to stop.

Adeel [34:58]: Yeah, it's pretty hypervigilant.

Paige [35:00]: Yeah, it's intense. It's very intense. And that moment, actually, I journeyed into that moment. And it was from a past life that I had. I still hide that happens. And so I'm also working kind of like integrating that experience into now too. And I do all of this stuff through meditation. So I try to meditate as much as possible.

Adeel [35:22]: When you're meditating, are you... I don't want to make it sound so black or white, but are you pushing thoughts away or are you inviting thoughts in? Because in things like IFS, I've heard that it's... He's like, I love meditation, but I don't like the part where it's about pushing thoughts away that maybe you want to listen to. So I'm just curious how you handle thoughts as you're meditating.

Paige [35:46]: I love on all of my thoughts. I love on them and then I... I, you know, acknowledge it. And then I sometimes invite visualizations because then I kind of redirect the thoughts, if you will. And so if something is coming to me, like, you know, thank you. I'm aware. I understand that's important. And also paying attention to like what's coming. Maybe that really is the most important thing, right? If that's what you're intentioning. But I think setting an intention before and then being aware of what thoughts come in, because in theory, kind of like the thought that you put out there is going to be the energy that you call back in. And so if your intention is clarity and you are getting bombarded with a few things that need some clarity, maybe just sit with them and contemplate them and that kind of stuff. And then another way that I work through that as well is inviting my own visualization. So sometimes it can be hard to create something right now. And so I have a sacred space that I invite in that's landscape nature. it's something that i've been creating in my mind for you know eight years now and so it's beautiful it's serene it has you know things that i keep near and dear to my heart and again it's in my my vision state my dream state but it's a safe place that i go to to experience clarity to experience peace and all of that is from within right

Adeel [37:42]: And then is the shamanic processes, are they around the same time or is it more beginning to other people to do it? I'm just curious how that blends in.

Paige [37:57]: Oh yeah, that's actually a great question. So shamanic practices are I think just a way of looking at like in a form of animism as like nature is We learn from nature and we're a part of nature and every being has an energy and every being has some lesson or reminder or message for us to continue living in our heart space and to continue to honor the space that we all share. And that's basically shamanic work and the piece of... doing memory reconciliation and so a lot of times when we say like shamanic work at least like our our practice is going back to the idea of oneness with the body and with nature and also being able to acknowledge that there are other planes of existence like mental emotional and spiritual And the part of that is just all your work and what we can do is like the idea of meditating and connecting to those spaces within you and listening more deeply to yourself and asking the questions and being able to visualize and create these kind of like these alternate realities that help us live more firmly in this reality, actually.

Adeel [39:19]: Yeah, okay. Yeah, I mean, are they, do they feel like they are created alternate realities or are you tapping into other dimensions of yourself?

Paige [39:32]: Yeah, we're getting into it. I was just like, this will go on.

Adeel [39:35]: They could probably get into a whole other.

Paige [39:37]: Yeah, it's that, exactly what you said. I think there's like, we learn from nature, we are nature, and there's no separation because we're multidimensional beings. right and like just that's the philosophy is that there can be alternate realities that we're creating and that are already in existence um have you seen the movie like everything is everywhere all the time

Adeel [39:58]: I don't think so.

Paige [39:59]: It's a movie people are talking about. It's a multidimensional movie. Just interdimensional.

Adeel [40:05]: Oh, is this the one right now that's up for a bunch of awards?

Paige [40:08]: Probably. Yeah, it's one of the few movies I've seen in the last couple of years. And I was like, wow, yes, this.

Adeel [40:15]: Yeah, that is on my list of things to see. I haven't seen that one yet.

Paige [40:19]: Great dinner conversation. Call a friend, phone a friend. Yeah, yeah, it's good.

Adeel [40:25]: So do you feel like that that has kind of affected how you base your relationship with misophonia as well?

Paige [40:33]: Absolutely. Because I think like through shamanic work, like that's how I was able to also access kind of like the, not kind of how to access the deep parts of the unconscious self. is is knowing that there are these these pieces of little page you know like the the the girl that i went and went to and sat with and this is they say this and ifs as well there's a lot of overlap there actually of like you as the adult right like kind of go to the inner child and you are really remind them that they're loved remind them that like you are safe and all of these things and you do that in the shamanic realm as well and when you're asking if someone's there And so in our practices, too, and what we do is it can be helpful to have someone walk that journey with you, as they say. So let's say in a drumming session, you are sitting in meditation. We would do some breath work, become present. And then you can facilitate using sound like drumming, for example. Like there's something about the repetitive kind of like beats per minute. There's kind of different beats for different levels of access that you then drop into the subconscious. Very similar to like hypnosis or there's a lot of different ways to get to the subconscious. But yeah, but then that person is kind of like holding, right, the beat of the drum and also the rhythm of this interdimensional experience with you. And you walk that together. And sometimes just being, knowing that there is a person in support, walking with you to a different plane for you to understand and integrate an experience that has been separated from you, right? Like there's been a cause for separation, some break that happened. whether that be, you know, being made fun of or something else, anything that causes a stress tremor, the idea is that we are going to retrieve that to understand our wholeness. And you can do that, you know, with yourself. And I highly recommend, like, working with people, though. Like, I think that's part of the community journey as well, is that it's coming out of that isolation that misophonia sometimes creates.

Adeel [42:36]: Yeah, that connection with others definitely adds a whole other dimension. uh dimension and ability to uh yeah access parts maybe um yeah interesting um you want to talk about um what um what's the music like i'm obviously a big music fan so i'm just curious what what makes it good um you mentioned flute drums is there anything um Are there good sources that someone can listen to to get a sense of it? Can you just find a YouTube playlist and just get a little bit of a sense of it without actually being around other people?

Paige [43:13]: I love that question. Yes. So I guess flutes and drums and like they're... and i'm sorry i didn't i didn't respond to your email when you said this uh but yeah i'm also a big big music person don't you hope we'd wait for this conversation so that's fine yeah and i think like it's interesting because sometimes shamanic drumming if you're unfamiliar with what the practice is really context can sometimes help a lot with being able to absorb material or kind of like remember like oh this is what this is uh but because of the type of beats per minute especially for someone with misophonia the first minute might be excruciating because you're like, this is really like that. Whatever is coming up for you, like that might happen. And then when you release into, oh yeah, I'm on my healing journey because I'm experiencing this intense emotion means that's exactly where I need to zero in on. That's the place. And so I think that takes work, right? Because that is the work is being able to move through these challenging emotional experiences that we have in order to get to the bridge of healing or create the bridge of healing within ourselves. So there's shamanic drumming playlists. There's a lot of different types of drumming. And so I would just kind of experiment with like where you can dive in, right? Like there's...

Adeel [44:25]: Are there ones that you would recommend? Is there maybe a name or a subgenre that you're particularly interested in?

Paige [44:32]: Can we put it in the notes? A subgenre?

Adeel [44:34]: Oh, yeah.

Paige [44:35]: Yeah. And then I think Native American flutes, to me, are, I think, really beautiful and special. And binaural beats have been incredibly helpful for me from a sleep perspective. And especially over the course of time, I noticed that, you know, if I do that for a week, meaning go to sleep with binaural beats and then allow my brain to kind of like rest and adapt to that new feeling of expansiveness and safety, I rely on them less and less. And so I try never to do anything for extended periods of time. I do the technique or work on something that someone shared with me. I allow there to be space for me to contemplate and to understand what that meant for me and what it brought up. And then I either continue or I move on. And so I allow a lot of space. Oh, and I wanted to also bring up the repetitive nature of also listening to things. I think you had said this happens with you too, where it's like, I can listen to something that's pleasing to me, right? Like some sound or some song, like a hundred times in a row.

Adeel [45:41]: Yeah.

Paige [45:42]: Easily.

Adeel [45:44]: Yep. I think it's part of the HSP, like the highly sensitive breath. I just feel like, you know, when I'm running, I know, you know, before I knew what this place was, I'd sit at jobs, listen to music and then find like myself, like minutes, maybe hours later, just still affected by some song. And I might have an album on repeat. And I'm like, I didn't get much work done, but I really felt something. and uh yeah i don't know now i'm like oh man did i like i don't know lose out on you know career opportunities because i was just so into music and just listening to songs all day yeah yeah yeah i i i think it's really i don't know i i agree with you though i kind of dive into that being meditative for me as well because there is this like trance state that happens and

Paige [46:30]: Especially since a sound that's pleasing, that releases the serotonin that I need to be like, oh yeah, I do have pleasure with sound or experience pleasure with sound. And then when the other things happen, it helps to balance it out a little bit.

Adeel [46:46]: And I know that back in the day, I would try to escape triggers by just playing back music in my head, or if I didn't have headphones. And so I wonder if that's somehow related.

Paige [47:01]: I mean, yeah, I would be really curious about that, too, because I haven't because I mean, with sound healing, too, since that's something we work with a lot with singing bowls. The first time I went to a sound bath is in New York City is a place called Bloom Center. And it's going to be four hours along four hours long. And I was a little bit nervous because I looked at all the instruments. I was like, OK, but I love I love instruments. Like I was really talking myself into. like it everything that happens here is is going to be a blissful experience you know like sometimes i really have to to prop myself up for going into those types of things and it was so magnificent because i found myself just really now when i listen to music i really try to explore the breadth of sound and being really curious about how i can you know add new layers to it or can I look at it and observe it and 360 it and kind of like think about how the sounds come together and what's that doing in the brain and really studying sound from a healing perspective since it does penetrate the cellular level and especially with the different resonance and hertz and All of the things. And so when I get into that state, though, it's nice because I feel like my nerd brain, as I call it, I'm really able to just super focus in on, I think this sound is absolutely healing this other part of me that feels a little bit disconnected. And so I start to create these storylines around song lines. And for me, that's also been something that's super helpful. That's just, you know, something that I do for myself, but it creates these really beautiful narratives. And I feel like I'm rewriting the story of me as I kind of go through this misophonic journey of healing.

Adeel [48:44]: Yeah, rewriting your story. I also have heard of that as being kind of a way to heal. And it all comes back to trying to rewire your brain. When you intentionally try to rewrite your story, it does do that. It can rewire your brain. I feel like the key to a lot of this is just doing that. Neuroplasticity is part of that. And Yeah, super. So the sound healing sessions, are they kind of like sessions where you're going into it for doing sound healing in particular? I'm just curious how long these sessions are. Like, are you listening to the same...

Paige [49:28]: kind of rhythm for a long time yeah i so i um i work with practitioners and there's there's a lot of people that are really stepping into this gift of music and kind of offering this um and anywhere's from you know 20 minutes to an hour to i've been to some sound sessions that were four hours and a lot of the ones that i gravitate towards are more along like chakra balancing So kind of working on like the root connection and the root, I think for anyone experiencing the root, meaning it's kind of like the base of your spine. yogic nature, like the root chakra, it has everything to do with safety and protection. And so once those lines were starting to be drawn on, wow, the misophonia might have a lot to, or expresses more fiercely when I don't feel safe. And I started to work with sounds that were more targeted towards that area of my body. And that in and of itself has been transformational. Like I felt like I just like the trunk of a tree and my roots extended into the core of the earth. Like I've had really beautiful visualizations of being able to create stability through sound, specifically things like singing bowls. And there's things that you can look up to like this is where the root chakra and those type of sound sessions have been incredible.

Adeel [50:50]: Wow, okay. Yeah, definitely want to look into that. We mentioned psychedelics in the past, and you've heard Michael's episode. I experimented with ketamine, and now I've seen on his Facebook group that he's starting to grow his own mushrooms. So I'm curious kind of like how... How does that integrate and what do you feel like the role for that is? Is it part of facilitating rewiring the brain? Is it also kind of helping to aid with meditation or... about other aspects of misophonia, I guess.

Paige [51:30]: Yeah, that wonderful question. So I am very familiar with psychedelics and different types of psychedelics. I don't have experience with ketamine, but I before even kind of like identifying strongly with misophonia, it worked with ayahuasca and a couple of other plant medicines. I think it's the most known one in South America. We travel back and forth to Ecuador a lot and we work with indigenous tribes that hold medicine space there. And also with psilocybin and I think that's it. I haven't done too much. But for me, how it showed up in misophonia is that, I mean, years ago, it helped really, really undeniably helped me heal the lupus, like the anticoagulant blood clotting disease that I had.

Adeel [52:26]: Oh yeah. You mentioned that, I think.

Paige [52:27]: Yeah. It undeniably, like that was a manifestation of all of the pent up stress that I had kept in my body for, you know, years and years and years that then when I turned 25, all of a sudden I was just ill, like just ill, didn't, wasn't able to get out of bed, was sleeping, was mutating. Basically I felt like an X-Men, like my, my body was just like really, really calling for attention. And through plant medicine, different things were exposed. Like some of the things that I've mentioned from the childhood, like ACEs, I remembered those, like those were black holes. Once I remembered them and I started to really do the work of healing those, that disease went away. Similarly, since I really started to connect with the misophonic, I think, expressions that I was having and activations I was having last year through working with psilocybin and also a couple of different cactus medicines. Remember I said I was obsessed with trying to figure out what part of my brain was lighting up? yeah yeah yeah i saw it i saw it in a journey and it was like the world had absolutely stood completely still in the with important to preface preparation is very very important with psychedelics making sure that like the you know the set and setting and the intention and everything like that is that is for healing um because a lot of things can be um just just opened right and i think all of it can be absolutely beautiful uh but the preparing of like what this means for me and and why i'm doing is huge especially with psilocybin and so that one of the the journeys that i took was that like i would love to understand more intimately like what this means for me and how it shows up and what what is the path of healing i know it may not just go away right like i do believe in spontaneous healings but i don't i didn't think that this was one of them like i really do believe this is a superpower so how can i create more harmony and balance with this um expression in my body and so during the journey there there's music etc and then all of a sudden time just like stopped and i had this feeling of complete peace. And I experienced the most profound clarity that I've ever had. And what I was able to see, I can see like kind of inside of me was exactly where those connections, those neurons kind of fire when I'm feeling some type of way. And it was so incredibly powerful and beautiful because there was color to it. There was peace and serenity. I was able to, I think like identify the fact that like, yes, you came into this world with this gift so that you can also speak about what this is, right? It's connecting back to ourselves in a more meaningful way. And a whole lot of other messages came through. And that for me was kind of exactly what I had been looking for. I was like, how do I calm this thing down? And what came to me was just like, no, you need to fire it up. But you are able to do that because of the awareness and just the journey that you've been on. This is part of your life's purpose. This is it. And I felt like that type of peace that I was able to receive from those moments of understanding and clarity was what I needed in order for me to continue to move through this in a way that is. uniquely me, part of my blueprint of being embodied in this world.

Adeel [56:13]: Wow. Yeah, that sounds very enlightening. Actually, I guess since you're doing a lot of these with other people, have you met anyone else who has misophonia on these journeys?

Paige [56:27]: I have not explicitly, and I'm wondering if it was something that we both were hiding a bit. Right. Like that's how a lot of times they talk about energy. Yeah. Like we both were kind of, oh, OK, this is something we work through. And so I think now that's actually part of my that was part of the messaging. And when you were asking, does it help meditation? I think absolutely. Plant medicine can help with meditation because it helps with living more mindfully and intentionally. If that's what you're doing it for and not recreation is because there's a way to prepare for these things, really taking care of your body and sleeping and. There's certain diets that you partake in before you take certain medicines. And so all of those mindfulness practices absolutely start to transform your life because you're closer, more connected. So I think like how we were meant to live, right, which is not in separation, but more closely aligned with everyone and everything around us. and um i think working with people part of my purpose sorry to answer your question was that if i speak about this right it's kind of how you you called in this podcast and all of a sudden there's so many people that want to share their story and hear their voice and it's so powerful I think being in work that I know can heal because I myself have had this experience of I used to feel absolutely crippled by what would happen inside of me and like who knows what self-harming thoughts like where those things lead right like there's just such a feeling of desperation that being able to I think know my story and uncover different ways that I can be in support and in service to you know humanity in this way is what I would like to do and what I'm doing and so

Adeel [58:13]: think that the more people will come i'm a safe space you know i've declared that i am a safe space for this to be a part of like our connection yeah so we're getting about an hour okay um so i'm but that's a couple more things like well um i guess you know maybe where so since you know um you made these realizations over the past year or two, especially in listening to the podcast. I guess, where would you say maybe your misophonia is now and then kind of where, what do you plan to do going forward? Like, do you plan to settle in some regular practices or are there some other therapies that you want to pursue?

Paige [58:58]: Yeah, I asked myself this question. So in where my misophonia is now, I would consider myself to be integrated. I know that there will be more things that will come up in terms of do I sometimes feel anxious or do I feel nervous? I feel that I have the tools to be able to move through them. you know, not living in fear, not letting that be the reason that I do or don't do things or am or am not around people or do or do not connect with people. And I think that's a huge step in the healing path. I have a lot of tools and techniques for my inner levers, right, to be more in balance too, like breathing and my emotions are much more stable. And what was the second part? What am I going to do with this?

Adeel [59:49]: Well, yeah, I guess maybe over the next year or two.

Paige [59:52]: Yeah, techniques.

Adeel [59:54]: Yeah.

Paige [59:54]: I want to continue diving really deep into what I'm currently doing, continuing on the journey work. And because I felt disassociated, right? Like here I was kind of like in this healing path and working with people and like, oh, this is great. And I'm like living this life of bliss and Paige's life is awesome. It's just like, but there was other things. And so I'm really excited about kind of like stepping more fully into a vibrancy of living and living with a quality of living that I want to live in. And before I think I was like maybe living a life I wanted to live, but the quality really wasn't, it was hard, right? It was painful. Like I was living in a lot of pain. And so who am I, the journey now is like, who am I without misophonia, if you will, right? Like who am I without my triggers? Who am I when I drop that identity and don't live with that? Who could I possibly be? And I think that's the question that I'm really stepping into this year is exploring that person. And being able to potentially, you know, partner and connect with other people who are starting their journey and during that journey, through that journey, you know, and on to the next one. And so that would be the idea behind it is being able to connect with community and continue to learn more tools and techniques. And everything is infinite. And really, I think capitalizing on the fact that like we are infinite and like what's the potential in that. And yeah, I think that pretty much sums it up.

Adeel [61:26]: No, that sounds great. Maybe, yeah, let's leave it on that note. And I'd love to obviously stay in touch with what you're doing and maybe have you back on in about six months or a year or something and just kind of see where this is taking you. But yeah, really interesting conversation.

Paige [61:41]: No, thank you, Adeel. yeah I wish you the best and obviously we'll have links to a lot of this stuff in the show notes so okay yeah I'm happy to send over links in the show notes and again I just want to thank you I haven't talked this much in a long time so thank you that's why I kind of sensed that especially when you said you're not like

Adeel [62:02]: super uh well you still very true but i didn't i don't i wanted to cut around before you felt like you were exhausting no thank you no thank you for the space thank you for yeah for just how you have really i think stepped into such an important role and i'm so grateful for you so and for the podcast and for everyone else who shared their story thank you page so many fascinating aspects of this conversation i do hope people absorb all of it And I'm really happy you, Paige, have achieved some control over your misophonia. The things you talked about in this conversation, I think, can benefit people actually far beyond misophonia. If you liked this episode, don't forget to leave a quick review or just hit the five stars wherever you listen to this podcast. You can hit me up by email at or go to the website, It's even easier just to send a message on Instagram at Missiphoney Podcast or Facebook or Twitter at Missiphoney Show. Support the show by visiting Patreon at slash missiphoneypodcast. The music as always is by Moby. And until next week, wishing you peace and quiet.

Unknown Speaker [63:34]: Thank you.