[00:00:00] Adeel: Jennifer great to have you on the podcast. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you very much. So you, yeah, you said you have not heard too many, but I, I usually like to just ask around where people are and what they do to set the baseline.

Yeah. So I,

[00:00:13] Jennifer: I go in like spurts of like delving into the misophonia world, and then I and then I take a break. And so I guess I came across you on one of those like deep dive moments. Yeah. And I listened to an episode and I heard how it was, very casual and how it's just an opportunity to tell the story, everybody's story, which I think has a lot of similarities and a lot of differences.

So I just thought it would be interesting to share my experience and possibly help others that may have had a similar experience.

[00:00:47] Adeel: Yeah, no, you're right. We share a lot of common experiences. Yeah. Every time somebody comes on, people new, people late. Yeah. It's definitely gonna help a lot of people.

Yeah. So maybe tell us about so you, it sounds like you went through a a recent deep dive. Did anything instigate

[00:01:01] Jennifer: that? I think like many people's stories because of the internet, they discovered this term Yeah. That applied to them, and they had no idea there was such a term and that.

That's been unfolding for me for maybe five years. And I'm 48 years old now, and this started when I was 10. So you could say in the last five years have definitely been like a rebirth because I never knew this term and when I first found out about it, I think, the normal reaction is oh my God, this is amazing.

, and then you quickly find that nothing is really gonna change much just because you learned the term. Yeah. And so that's where I've been in the last five years. Oh wow, this is really great. And breakthroughs. And then oh there's still really nothing to be done about it.

Yeah. We're all

[00:01:50] Adeel: still talking about the same stuff. Yeah. Pretty much.

[00:01:53] Jennifer: Yeah. Yeah. But as far as what's happened as far as , like my perspective on my whole life has changed like dramatically . so I think, I'm also, I'm like probably going through a midlife crisis, so it's all like very timely like that.

I'm just taking stock of a lot of things in my life and I have a grown daughter. She's 23 now. And so I think a lot of my my, this new chapter of my life has it just, it coincided with all this misophonia research and so I think it's like a very timely thing that I've been going through this major life change at the same time of discovering all these things.

And so I've been having like just a lot of epiphanies, basically .

[00:02:39] Adeel: Yeah. I, without getting into, I'm sure I'll. Tell my story at some point on the show, but yeah, you're I'm about your agent. Yeah, you're right. I'm in the past couple years maybe because the pandemic I've been and cuz of things that have happened with people, pa passing away, just been thinking back to all the way back to like early years and how a lot of things have where Mimi Misho has weaved in and out and how it's affected it's repercussions.

Going back maybe even obviously my childhood, but also maybe even, other people's pasts and how this thing tends to reverberate. Anyway, so it's vague, but yeah, that's, it's let a lot of people Yeah. To look back and, and rethink things and interesting that some of the therapies I hear about these days have to do with connecting with your inner, like your child the the child that was maybe whether it was trauma or some, something, that may have happened around the time when you were growing up. Yeah. Uh, One of the, one of the therapies is trying to reconnect with that and and maybe bridge the gap or close a loop that was never closed.

Anyways, I digress. But but yeah, I'm you're, this is gonna Yeah, definitely a lot of people are gonna relate. So let's maybe, do you wanna go back to around age 10, Jennifer, and paint a picture there a little bit about what was gonna be going on?

[00:03:45] Jennifer: Ah, yeah. , the interesting start

[00:03:47] Adeel: anywhere.

I didn't mean to, you don't need to sum it up in 10 seconds, but, yeah.

[00:03:50] Jennifer: Yeah. Like I said, the, my perspective has changed a lot in the last five years, but one thing that I've always known and that I never, ever could talk about before before I learned about Misson was I remember the day, the moment that it really got switched on.

And I, I. The incredible thing is I have a photograph of the day. Wow. Yeah. And it was because it was, I was 10 years old and it was my mother's birthday and my parents used to fight a lot. They got married very young. They were like 19 and 20 years old and . So I was 10 years old. Nate, you they used to fight a lot and in my memory they were in a fight.

And my father took us to the local carve. It's in here in New Jersey. It's a ice cream place, old school ice cream place, get ice cream cakes. And he took us to get an ice cream cake for her birthday. And I remember wanting to jump outta my skin in the car being in the car with my father, his mouth noises, his, just putting his fingers in his mouth and couldn't look at his hands on the steering wheel and.

I remember like our house was very tense that night. Cause my parents were fighting and when he came back, when we came back I was covering my ears and that's when it became like a big deal in my family. Like, why are you covering your ears? What's going on? And we took a picture with my mother around the cake and I had my two fingers in my ears.

Not even like I was a little kid, I wasn't even trying to hide it or anything. I was just like, there's something irritating me. So my reaction was to plug my ears. And every photograph after then was that, we had to take as a family with my father nearby, I would just plug my ears and there's, those were pretty much like the only times we took pictures was like, the family.

Yeah. Birthdays and everything. And from that moment forward, you like, up until I was a teenager, you just see me looking absolutely miserable. And then like I developed a. a more more subtle way of covering my ears. Like I would like, rest my hand on like my elbow on the table and lean into my hand.

Yeah. So I could cover my ear and like all these like when I was a little kid, I didn't know to do that. I just would just stick two fingers in my ears and and I remember that my entire life was, Jennifer, get your fingers outta your ears. Like, why are you covering your ears? And it was just like a constant scolding wow.

Yeah.

[00:06:23] Adeel: Yeah. I was gonna ask what the reaction was and seems yeah. There was no empathy about that. It was, did he ever ask or how did try explain it or

[00:06:31] Jennifer: he was just deal? No I had no idea what was going on. Like I said, like looking back and having this different perspective. I was, I think, before hearing about this, I pretty much.

I always felt like something was wrong with me. I'm a weirdo. I don't know . What yeah. You know why I'm acting like this. And I will tell and like I'm a seeker. So when I became a teenager and into my adult life, I had done so much searching as to why I acted like this, specifically around my father.

And I went to so many psychologists and therapists and different kinds of healers, all kinds of alternative therapies. And I always talked about issues with my father in like a psychological way. , like you talk about if, I know the jury's out if MS. PO is from trauma or not, but and before I knew that it was Ms.

Po, why I was acting this way, I guess I delved into that. My reaction to my father was because of trauma. And I so I always was trying to uncover that and I did so much work around that and in a logical psychological way. I can see like my father was traumatized, traumatizing, but he was also like very nurturing and very loving and very giving and like I knew all these two things, these two sides of my father existed.

And I couldn't, could be hard for,

[00:07:59] Adeel: It could have been harder for, sorry to cut in . Yeah. But brainstorming cuz Yeah. It, to me this the whole trauma aspect of, it's funny actually relatively new. It's interesting that you were seeking that at such a young age, but may maybe it's just a child not being able to reconcile those two sides and seeing that contrast.

Yeah. I don't know.

[00:08:17] Jennifer: So what happened when I was an a, when I became an adult and like I said, like going through all of this reconciling of Lee. I had forgotten that previous before I was 10 years old. My father was my absolute favorite person, and I had made him my enemy my entire life. So much so that I had, I'd completely forgotten that.

And like anybody that, any my aunts and uncles, anybody that knew us then would've said the same thing. Like I had just forgotten. But my father and I were like, like two peas in a pod. Like we did everything together. If it was my mother and my brother and me and my father. And if we went anywhere as a family and we had to split up, it was like, I'm going with dad.

Like he was my absolute favorite person. And when this all started, he became toxic to me. I was just like, I had to leave the room. And I know that had the hugest impact on him, like devastating, life changing and Yeah. Yeah. And, but I put that outta my mind for so many decades that how close we were, I just I couldn't even go there and learning about the Misa and, like I said, taking stock of my life, I'd remembered it and, really just hitting me, like the loss, how much of a loss it was.

Yeah.

[00:09:41] Adeel: Yeah. No I, I think a lot of us can relate. I personally can't relate with something very similar to that too. So that's, yeah. That's very it's very interesting to have that hit in recent years. I can understand that. Is your dad still with us or, yeah,

[00:09:53] Jennifer: yeah.

Yeah. And so it's and they live close and I've never, you can't say I've had a relationship with. my family at all. Like I, we've we're always in contact, but it's very minimal. My dad, he's always, helped around the house. Something breaks, he comes to fix it, that kind of thing.

[00:10:13] Adeel: Yeah. But if the stark contrast to the first 10 years, right?

[00:10:17] Jennifer: I wonder trust me, my family has other issues. It's not just, this is definitely the biggest, but like I can't even, I don't even know what our relationship would've been like if it weren't for this and because, I do know that we definitely, have our issues, but outside of this, but like when I just hear on social media, like somebody, like a picture with their dad or oh, my one friend, she goes to a brewery all the time with her dad and has a drink, and I'm like, my dad.

Would kill for an experience like that. And it seems like such a normal thing that people can do, and I've never been able to. And

[00:10:53] Adeel: so he, that he would, so he is, do you feel like he's still thinking about that? That little girl? He's he, yeah. Okay. Yeah, he's .

[00:11:02] Jennifer: Sorry, I'm kidding you.

Yeah, it, my dad is very he's forgiving and he's not a mushy like, emotional person. So he hides at all. But yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah, it's, and it's definitely come up, so when I, okay. Yeah. Yeah. When I found out about this years ago, because I don't have this normal, even like ability to like communicate with my parents or even be in the same room with them.

Yeah. Yeah. The first person I told was my daughter who got my, she, I guess she was only like 18 at the time, if I'm saying five years ago. But my daughter, she's very, my daughter's applying to med school right now. She's very intelligent, she's very she's always been very mature and she's, she also studied neuroscience as an undergrad.

And yeah, so she, she can understand all this stuff. So when I told her about it and she was like, wow, like everything makes so much sense. And we even had to go and have conversation about like how she was raised because of it. Yeah.

[00:12:07] Adeel: That's gonna get my next kind of yeah, , there's enough with your, there's enough we've talked about with your dad.

Yeah. But but yeah, very curious kind of how her experience

[00:12:14] Jennifer: was. Luckily she did not. Trigger me the way they did. Okay. I probably had irritating moments that were because of it, but it was nothing as profound as with them. But because because of how I am with them, it was very awkward with her as a child.

Like how, my parents watched her. Yeah. Like I would bring her to their house and I would have to like, stand outside and put the baby inside and step back and all kinds of weird behaviors that she did not understand. And then at 18 years old when I could tell her, she was like, oh my God, that makes so much sense.

She was very understanding and she didn't think it was weird at all cuz you know she's just very accepting of these things and Yeah. But she did say that because of the tension and how much she loved her grandparents and. , the tension wasn't just tension.

It was, me having, me being triggered constantly and them being mad at me, basically. And so it would just seem for a kid not knowing, for anybody, not knowing what's going on, it just looks like two people that like, are like explosive around each other and nobody can see why

[00:13:21] Adeel: How did you how did you react? Sorry, I'm gonna start probably going all different directions, jumping around because but yeah, how did you react as an adult when you were being triggered versus, as that, that the girl from scarce?

[00:13:33] Jennifer: I think my, I learned very early on, because you

[00:13:36] Adeel: probably knew what the name was at this point.

I'm curious if he reacted to me

[00:13:40] Jennifer: or, no not most of my adult years, no. I was in my forties when I learned. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So raising my daughter, I had my daughter when I was 24 and. Raising her. I was basically still, I still acted like the teenager with me. Yeah. Yeah. Just, I didn't even think about earplugs and things like that until I, joined Menia groups on Facebook and the last couple of days it's been weird since the pandemic, so there's not really been the same kind of thing.

Yeah. The things that we have done I have my arsenal of earplugs and those are awful because you can't hear any. Even though I go and I am definitely, I'm not getting triggered. I'm much more comfortable in that way, but I sit there like basically in like a cloud of my own and zombie.

Yeah. Yeah. My daughter has, I she knows I have the earplugs in and she'll kick me under the table if somebody's talking to me and I don't hear them . So Yeah. Yeah. , she's my ally and all that.

[00:14:34] Adeel: Okay. That's great that you have someone so close to who's your ally and is gonna be doing neuroscience and we'll discover the cure for us, and then that's

[00:14:41] Jennifer: what we all say.

Yeah.

[00:14:42] Adeel: Slight tangent, I'll probably cut this, but part up, but the last two people interviewed this past week for both college young women who are col in college to do neuroscience specifically for me misophonia. Wow. So there's some things in the air where people are smart women are getting together and Oh wow.

I don't know. Anyways, back to back to to you though. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So your daughter has been kind your ally. And so I guess, yeah. How did you was it really just through Googling in the last five years that you discovered that it had a name? Were you, was there a moment that you of hit a tipping point?

And do you remember the Google search that you entered?

[00:15:14] Jennifer: So it ca It, it's, it came upon slowly maybe even more than five years ago. I heard on like npr an interview with the woman who's a doctor in Oregon. That was like one Oh yeah.

[00:15:26] Adeel: Marsha Johnson. Yeah, I interviewed her. She's great.

I've met her. Okay. Yeah. Yeah,

[00:15:30] Jennifer: I heard that in passing on mpr and my jaw dropped and I guess I'm, I don't know, I'm the kind of person like these like groundbreaking things can happen and then I'm just like, I don't know, maybe I'm like a realist and I was just like, I was like the I'm not gonna put too much, stock into that.

I'm like, I'm gonna go to Oregon and see this woman and then alright, be realistic. I would went back and forth and so I let it sit for a while. And then, I don't know what made me think of this, but the big breakthrough five years ago was, Just thinking, oh my gosh, I wonder if there's anything on Facebook.

Because up until then I had just there's definitely stuff on Facebook. No. Huge. I know. And but the difference is before I almost too much. But yeah, totally. The difference is before then I was reading articles and it was like one-sided. Yeah. And then when I was like, let me see if anything's on Facebook, and I found these groups, that's when it was like really more integrated into my life because yeah, before then it was just experts saying what it was like.

And now it was like, oh my gosh, there's these everyday people living the same way. And I introduced myself on the Facebook group by showing the pictures. And I didn't know, I didn't know, I didn't look too much into what the group was about or anything. I just posted these pictures and introduced myself and the response was overwhelming.

Yeah. And then I was like, okay, wow. This is this is my world.

[00:16:53] Adeel: Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing how, yeah. Probably a lot of people have similar pictures or memories of, that were not captured.

[00:17:01] Jennifer: Captured quite like that. That's what they were saying was, it was like, just so if there's could have been captured, that's what it would've looked like.

Yeah. I'm

[00:17:09] Adeel: sure at least 20% of my interviews have to do with somebody trapped in a car, and wanted to get out.

[00:17:13] Jennifer: So do you wanna hear the car story? Oh, yeah please. We had I was a kid of the seventies and we had the old station wagon with like wood paneling on the side. Oh yeah. And yeah, we'd always go on road trips and go down the shore.

And my so yeah, being trapped in the car was brutal. And without even knowing, why I was doing it, I started just sinking my teeth into the car door, like the leather underneath the window. Like on the car door? Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I would just put all my rage into just biting that.

I didn't know what else to do. I didn't know what was going on with me. And my brother would be in the backseat with me what the hell is she doing? And before long I had completely destroyed the car door. And my family is very good with denial. They're just like, why did you do that?

And who, I don't know what I had said to it, but it was just ignored. And I remember all the kids on the block, my dad would take us to 7-Eleven Crystal Bees and oh God. Yeah. all the, yeah. Like all the kids like piled into the car and they're like, what the hell happened to the car door? And my brother, without missing a beat was like the dog chewed it up.

And I, that's another thing that I had just completely forgotten ever happened, but that came back to me Yeah. In the last five years. Yeah. And I was like, wow. , I, now that I've been a parent, I'm like, how would I react if my daughter was doing something so destructive? And I can't blame my parents.

They're like parents of their time. They, they didn't have the internet. They didn't have , resources. They not. But since since finding out about this, and I had my daughter tell them that I discovered the

[00:18:53] Adeel: okay. So she was the messenger to your

[00:18:55] Jennifer: parents? It was messenger and it was, yeah, it was because they were, it was on my birthday and they were asking to go out to dinner.

And I had, many times in the past decades, suffered through meals, just, oh yeah. This birthday, I was like, you know what? I can't do it. And I just, I wanna just come clean and say why. So I had my daughter tell them. And my daughter told me, my mother cried.

And and my dad said, he always figured my dad, this is I hope this isn't, my dad's not the most politically correct, and I don't know if he's right or wrong, but he said, yeah, I always figured she was autistic or something. And neither of them ever said anything to me. I think I got a text from my mom that said, if you want us to buy earplugs or anything, let me know.

Okay. Yeah. They're,

[00:19:45] Adeel: they're not for the dinner or just as a medical gesture or something.

[00:19:50] Jennifer: That's all they know how to do is do you need money for something? Yeah. Yeah. There was never any, conversation about it. And I still wonder, if they are feeling guilt for screaming at me, my whole life, instead of saying, Hey, Maybe you don't want to be acting this way.

[00:20:05] Adeel: ,

so this is the only interaction that you know that they were, that this came in discussion like that your, on that birthday, your daughter went to them, or,

[00:20:12] Jennifer: That, yeah, that is the only conversation. And then since then, I, every time I came or, in the months following that, every time I came upon a really like fitting article that like, yeah, I felt really explained, someone else's story that was so much like mine.

So that my goal was my parents seeing that this is the condition, it's not me, I kept sending her articles like that I wouldn't really get much of a response back or, she'd say something like, yeah, I know I've read some things. Nothing. And and then I realize that as an adult too my mother is not going to, give me what I need ever.

. Yeah. That's

[00:20:45] Adeel: interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I maybe that, oh yeah. I'm not a therapist, but maybe, yeah, that's, it goes back to some of the things I've been hearing therapies I've been hearing about recently about want needing to like you talking to your child's self as a way to give it the comfort that it didn't have maybe from the people who are around you back then.

What about your brother? Where is he in all this ?

[00:21:04] Jennifer: So my brother, and I've never had a close relationship, I don't even think before this, I think. , I think it was one of those cases. He's two years older than me. Probably one of those cases where he was traumatized by my birth, like

Oh, gotcha. Okay. Yeah, I don't know. That's very much. Our family dynamics are like like I said, even before this, it was him and my mom and me and my father and Yeah. Yeah. And so he's mama's boy. And the fact that I caused these problems in the family, I think, made my brother hate me even more.

Oh, okay. Got protective brother. Yeah. , you don't really

[00:21:42] Adeel: talk to him that much. More just family advanced or No.

[00:21:45] Jennifer: Okay. No, and I don't even know if my mother would've told him like, Hey, this is discovery.

[00:21:52] Adeel: Oh, hey, this major thing to your, the rights that potentially explains your siblings entire life.

[00:21:58] Jennifer: Okay. And I, and I think like in many families, there's the black sheep or like the scapegoat. And like I said, there's a lot of dysfunction anyway, and I think my problems made it. , like everybody can just blame me. They don't have to look at anything that's wrong with them or anything else that's wrong.

So I don't think my mother wants I don't think she could possibly face the, the fact that this, there's something that's not my fault. Like it's, she's been so used to blaming me, for everything that Yeah. I don't think she could switch that narrative.

[00:22:31] Adeel: Yeah. It's a sunk cost.

It's if you try to question, it's as if you're accepting that you were wrong for 40 years. Yeah. She, and so that's, yeah. That's almost, you have to double down if you're that kind of person.

[00:22:42] Jennifer: Exactly. I and my mother and my brother are definitely like that.

And my father's probably the impact is huge, , so I don't blame anybody for that either. It's incredibly sad, so Yeah. That probably can't go

[00:22:55] Adeel: there. Yeah. Oh man. That's what about other other family members like uncles and Aunt Cousins? Does anyone know what's going on?

Do you talk to them maybe?

[00:23:05] Jennifer: No, not to be too depressing, but now bring it on. We're all right there, . Yeah. My one family member that I was closest with was my aunt, my father's sister, and she, yeah. You can see where this is going. She's no longer with us. But she also had a lot of problems.

And she was also very she was a seeker and she was very self-sufficient and smart, and she researched her. Conditions, and she, I don't know exactly what her diagnosis was, but she had been on medication her whole life and she did end up committing suicide and the way everybody in the family reacted to her death also was very telling because I always saw her as someone that was very brave and very smart and caring, and she was the best family member as far as being caring about everybody else and Yeah.

And when she died they were basically like she was all always messed up. Oh

[00:24:00] Adeel: yeah. It's a very old school. Yes. I'm just calling somebody messed up. That's something I've probably even sat back in that day, but it's,

[00:24:08] Jennifer: Right before we knew better and everything. So yeah. And I'm like, wow.

Like I see them all as, Assholes and she was like the best, like she , really, when we did get together, it was because of her nobody gets together anymore, . So I would I, so I wish to God if she were here, like God, I, she's the only person I would be able to share this with and be able to have any kind of, she could probably be extremely helpful to me.

Yeah. But yeah. So the other ones basically are not worth explaining it to. No. Yeah.

[00:24:40] Adeel: Yeah. Yeah. Understood. Yeah. It sounds like it's funny how yes, people like that can really stand out to people like, us maybe. Yeah. They really stand out and yeah, that's, it's really sad when things turn.

Yeah. W was she, I don't know why the term HSP came to my mind cuz a lot of people have come on saying that they're hsp mean highly sensitive person, like are extra able to Read the room or get a feel what other people are feeling. Do you, does she sounds like maybe she's had that kind of I don't know, gift or maybe just seemed like that in the face of complete, you know, ,, the rest of your family being so numb.

Yeah.

[00:25:12] Jennifer: She's definitely, she, she was very intuitive and very smart. Yes. But she

[00:25:18] Adeel: didn't have missed phone yet, or did, do you know, if, don't she had anything?

[00:25:21] Jennifer: That's what like I would've loved to talk her about, cause she had O c D very bad and mm-hmm. I had episodes with it myself, and when I did it was the same reaction.

It was like, you better get help. What's wrong with you? You're making everybody miserable. And she would give me books on it. She gave me a book, I'll never forget. She gave me a book and she put a different cover on it, like a. She just put like a generic, like novel , like cover on it.

Cuz she was like, this is your journey. Nobody has to know. Oh yeah. So she covered the book and, but it was a book that, yeah, she's so because she knew like the fact that she got, yeah. And she and it was a book about retraining your brain. And as hard as that is to do, I've always, that's stayed with me.

That like you can like mind over matter certain things. Yeah. Definitely I understand that obviously I still have musap and I still have O C D to a certain point, but I did see how, your brain could dig these very deep trenches if, and you could you can smooth over those trenches by.

Breaking patterns and

[00:26:25] Adeel: your brain is plastic. That's, yeah that's hard neuroscience right there. So it's yeah, there are ways to do that if you can. Yeah, if you can find it. Misson is very understudied, so I think we're starting to get there, but,

[00:26:37] Jennifer: Yeah. Yeah. would say like I've only ever attempted anything with O C D and it has helped.

Like I still always have it, but I think I could definitely go really off the deep end if I didn't, always have these practices of, not letting myself, get too carried away with it. And mis I don't think that's possible or I don't know those tools

[00:26:56] Adeel: for it.

Yeah. Interesting. What are some of the things that couple other, maybe some of the exercises that, that you do for O C D? I'm cur, are they talk there, like talking to yourself

[00:27:05] Jennifer: therapy? Yeah, like breathing exercises, which I know people say for it's fun, but also , I think everybody's different what they have to do and I, I don't want to, trigger anybody or but instance, with me, if I feel like I have to wash my hands, yeah.

Like maybe I don't have to wash my hands with boiling hot water and antibacterial soap, maybe just regular soap and like regular water is fine. And that way I don't, cuz if I do the hot water and the antibacterial soap, then I'll like, need to do something else after it or, yeah. So I tell myself, okay, that's good enough.

Gotcha. Yeah.

[00:27:37] Adeel: And you said these, this, that kind of talk doesn't really work from Misson or yet maybe you haven't tried anything. Yeah,

[00:27:44] Jennifer: I, it's too maybe the fact that Misson is in response to people and you don't have that like private space to like, to work things out, like with O C D if I'm alone, oh, yeah, it's a good point. Like you're the anxiety level because you're there in front of somebody. You're right in front

[00:28:02] Adeel: of somebody. Yeah. Yeah. And you don't have much time to react. Yeah, because Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. Needs, probably needs to hold new set of tools or you need to go into a situation already of prepped.

Is what I I never remember, but because things happen all of a sudden and we, I think we try to block out our triggers until they happen. But try to tell I try to tell people that you maybe before a meal, tell yourself that it's only, 20, 30 minutes, then you can go take a walk or something afterwards.

So just sometimes being able to tell your body that yeah, can du it down a little bit, just knowing that you have an escape. But I don't know. Like I said, I rarely remember Yeah. To do that cuz it's you get caught up because when you're around people, you're, Yeah.

You get caught up in what? Whatever's happening. And if you're even there in the first place, you could be standing outside like you were at at your

[00:28:46] Jennifer: Yeah, I remember even before I knew that this was Meson I would give myself that talk before I would go into my parents' house, for example.

, I would say, like, when I used to think it was because of trauma and psychological reasons, I would tell myself like, my dad's not hurting me, nothing bad. He's a good person. Yeah. And then I would go in and get triggered in a second and I'd be like, damn.

[00:29:09] Adeel: It's funny cuz it's true.

Sorry. But yeah, I think we've, yeah. We've all tried, we've all tried stuff like that. How did you, I'm curious you said you were a seeker and it seems like you've made some epiphanies like long before I've feel like I've been in the Commuter for a while and I've just thought of some realized some of these things, like the potential, potential trauma influence what, what were some of the how did you find out about some of that stuff?

I'm assuming some of that maybe thinking had come from before you knew it had a name or

[00:29:34] Jennifer: I guess the Facebook

[00:29:35] Adeel: group. Just trying to figure yourself out. Okay. It's from the, so it is from the Facebook group. Okay. Yeah. Maybe I just missed those posts. Yeah. Back in the day. Okay.

[00:29:42] Jennifer: Yeah. And there, there was like one , I guess the. thing that got me up to speed the most is the, I think there's a Facebook page called like Meson treatment tracker, treat Treatment and Symptoms Tracker or something. And Ev a lot of people listening will probably know this person. And I'm sorry, I don't remember his name.

I think his first name's Michael. He posts on there very openly. He's probably done like every therapy out there and he documents it all ah, amazing. And I remember spending days like reading all of his stuff and he's worked with so many people and like the big names that are out there that say that they're using all these different approaches.

And he I just basically read like his whole experience and I was like, okay, that's, I believe all that. And I believe that would've been my same experience. I would've worked really hard and maybe had a little bit of Progress and then really no, no major like breakthrough.

So I feel like I got it all in a nutshell, yeah.

[00:30:40] Adeel: Cause that this sounds like very, some of those treatments I've heard of are very expensive too, but exactly. It's good to have somebody maybe sum that up for us. Yeah, you're right. There isn't really an, obviously, as there isn't really a a a bullet, a silver bullet.

[00:30:53] Jennifer: Although I will say what has been interesting to me I'm awful with names and I know, like I said, a lot of people listening probably know who I'm talking about. There's the chi the chiropractor is, but I guess he calls himself like a neurological chiropractor out in Utah, I think.

[00:31:09] Adeel: Yeah, I think I've seen him speak at a convention, but yeah, I also don't remember his name.

[00:31:13] Jennifer: Yeah. But. I've been, I read a lot of, there was this one woman that documented her daughter's story and I believe that something like that could work for young kids if it is nipped in the bud. Like how if it, if when I was like 10 or 12 years old and this was just developing if I got put into a therapy like that, I think that could have been effective. Where, like you said, their brains are plastic and that plastic gets hardened the older you get. And so Yeah. Might rock hard. It's not going anywhere. Yes. yes. Decades of being like this I think would be much harder, but I do think it's helpful for little kids.

And for that reason I was like, going through all this and the despair and everything, I I would talk to some people's parents who I saw posting where they're just like trying to understand what their kid's going through. And , I would take time to maybe respond to those people or message those people to be like, your kid doesn't actually hate you.

Or yeah, because I know what my, father could have been like helped by hearing. And yeah, I think those kids might have the best chance of getting treatment d

[00:32:17] Adeel: treatment like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You said yeah, I wanna talk about like how it's affect like social life and whatnot, but I do wanna talk yeah, maybe talk about a little bit about or see if, I think you said that when you thought it had more to do with trauma.

Does that mean your thinking has changed maybe as you've done some of this thinking back, is it, do you feel like it's you maybe no longer think it's as much about trauma and it's maybe more biological? I'm just curious kind of what, where, what your state of mind is now. I. ,

[00:32:44] Jennifer: my the jury's out with me on the trauma.

, I could completely see how it could be in my case. And then I could also see I think I had a very, like an extreme childhood. It was like extremely normal and then extremely dysfunctional yeah. Yeah. I, I, it wasn't like the worst, it was episodes, of violence and craziness, and then oh, hunky dory, everything's fine.

Nuclear family, like . So I, and I've, by seeing different people comment about it in the groups, I think it's, some people are like, I had trauma and some people are like, I didn't. So even based on that, I would say I'm not sure. That makes me like really unsure. Yeah. But I also have heard, like it could have been viral.

. I haven't

[00:33:29] Adeel: heard about

[00:33:29] Jennifer: that. That's very interesting to me because when my O C D flared up, it was after I had anesthesia for a surgery and I came out of that like totally just so intense and I that like, I had a massive episode where I didn't wanna touch the floor. I felt like if one piece of clothes in the closet was dirty, all the clothes were, and I was taking them out and throwing them in the washing machine, like going berserk.

. And that was like a flare up that was very much tied to the anesthesia. And decades later I had to have anesthesia again in 2017 for a surgery. And I was petrified. And I said to the doctor, I thought this sounded crazy. I was like, I'm petrified of anesthesia because it made me have psychological or yeah.

Neurological event after. And he said, oh, that totally happens with young women that age. I was around, I think 19 years old. Yeah. And I was like, are you serious? I, that was just a theory of mine. And he's no, totally. And now my daughter, she's a medical assistant for an orthopedic surgeon.

And she said, oh yeah, totally. That it's very dangerous anesthesia at that age. And maybe anesthesia is safer now. Yeah. So because of that just like loosely tying it to misophonia where it felt the same, the way it was so abruptly triggered. And the way that misophonia typically does show up in people at this age, is it like the combination of if you have this certain gene and if you've had this certain virus is that the combination for when you turn this age when your brain is developing at this stage that this will happen? So it does, I don't know. It does feel like it would make sense that it has some kind of like mechanical , history like that.

[00:35:23] Adeel: Yeah. A co couple quick things about that is I, yeah, I hadn't heard like a, maybe a viral or a connection to anesthesia, but I had someone come on recently, I feel like I posted it, but she said it's it potential, it's been connected to her. She's, oh, she's around her age, dude, but it's, could been connected to her hormones her whole life.

And that was interesting because of obviously around 10 to 12, like there's a lot of hormone stuff going on, but she said, Approaching like around menopause. Like it's Greek havoc on her MyPhone as well. So she keeps the, she made that link. Made that link there. I haven't heard really a lot of other people talk about that but that kind of came to mind as you were talking about yeah.

What

[00:35:56] Jennifer: is that?

[00:35:57] Adeel: Yeah, there's a chat. The other thing, yeah, sorry, before, cuz I know I'm gonna forget. Yeah. But the other thing I was I was talking about I was gonna mention is yeah, the way you were describing like so term epigenetics, I think, and I'm gonna butcher this, but it's about yeah, maybe a kind of genetic component which then gets it doesn't mean that a hundred percent something will happen to you, but it could just basically mean that you're a little bit more susceptible as that the ma the machinations of that gene turning into yourself happen as you're developing certain things in your environment could maybe res accentuate Something that, that can actually make it make it a reality versus just staying dormant.

So maybe there is something there where, and that's it's a combination of like nurture and nature. Yeah. That could be, know, the stars aligned in an unfortunate and in it of developed because you were there was a marker maybe in your genetics or our genetics.

[00:36:44] Jennifer: Yeah. Yeah. Because, and especially seeing some of the families say who knows what, goes on. Yeah. And trauma could be different for anybody. It could be, something that might seem benign, but the kids traumatized. You don't know. Yeah.

[00:36:55] Adeel: That's that small t trauma that I've recently heard about.

It doesn't, yeah. It doesn't have to be something like, yeah. Even if it's just like a lot of walking on eggshells, which when you were talking about how things would be, crazy and then back to normal I don't know. I would be walking on eggshells, . Yeah. In a situation like that, not wanting to switch, flip back and forth,

[00:37:13] Jennifer: true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, but I, since I did spend so much time delving into all that I'm like, okay, I feel like I made peace with it all, so why is this still here? Yeah. So that's why I am also like leaning away from the trauma thing because the trauma reaction feels different than the Misa.

[00:37:32] Adeel: , .

Yeah. No that's great. I'm, yeah I'm, yeah. I haven't talked to, I haven't talked to many people who are not therapists who have not you really thought about that aspect of it. So it's really interesting to get your take. Yeah. And yeah, maybe talking about, we didn't I usually sometimes hit a hit upon like how things like in school and friends growing up, like social life did it seep into any of that?

[00:37:52] Jennifer: Yes and no. Like I do remember in elementary school Having issues with certain kids and not understanding why. And this actually is before I was 10, before that like switch really got turned on. I do remember two kids in class that I couldn't sit near, especially when it was like quiet and we were taking a test and I would cry to the teacher.

I remember crying to her and be like, Jodi's doing that thing again. And the teacher being like, she's not doing anything. And and I'm like, that's another thing that had completely forgotten and that came back in the last five years. I was like, oh my God, that was misophonia. So I do remember that.

And then definitely in college, not realizing it was dysphonia. Yeah. Taking exams and oh yeah, you can't take the exam because you work fixated on this check across the room that's chewing gum. And I again, Yeah. And I totally remember giving this girl the evil eye and through this exam the whole time I was just like going nuts.

And then after the exam she came up to me and she said, is there something wrong? She was like, this punk girl. She looked like really scary, but she was actually very sweet. And she was like she's do you have a problem with me? She wasn't even saying it, like threatening. And I was like, and I just told her, I go, you know what, you were chewing gum really loud, the whole exam.

And it was really distracting to me. And she said, oh my God, you should have said something . And I'll never forget that. I was like, oh, I didn't know You could be like a normal person and just ask people , chew up. Yeah.

[00:39:21] Adeel: Yeah, we definitely internalize a lot and go through scenarios that sometimes don't happen.

[00:39:27] Jennifer: wouldn't happen that way, right? Yeah. Oh my God, do people just, I don't know. But and then there's, but as far. Again, taking stock of my life. I've never, I'm single, I've raised my daughter as a single mother, and I've never been able to have like roommates back in my twenties. I knew immediately when I started college, I need to live alone.

I got my own dorm room. Like things that were not normal. Like I see my daughter, she lived with eight people and she had a blast. Yeah. And now she's like moving in with another friend and those are normal Yeah. Ways to be at that age. And I definitely made my life so I could have my comfort zone, as much as possible.

And I've been, lucky enough that I've been able to do that. I've been able to live alone and I just never knew like why I needed to .

[00:40:15] Adeel: Did it cross your mind that it was because the fans on the end or. There was just so in maybe deepen your personality to always want to be alone.

That,

[00:40:23] Jennifer: that's kinda what you assumed. Yeah, I figured I was just a loner and yeah. And that's definitely now like a part of the taking stock of like I don't have a partner and I like how much of it is this condition and how much of is it is like what I really want? I don't know.

I can't separate it. Yeah. Yeah. And so there are days where it's it's hard being alone and it's so you, you see the cost and Yeah. Whereas, and then I can like, just convince myself no. It's it's how I really like to be. Like

[00:40:51] Adeel: I, did it ever cause the conflict between you and like a non-family member or,

[00:40:56] Jennifer: I never got, the wall was up.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Because, when I dated people it's funny. One thing, even though I didn't know I had that this was a thing. I did just think I got irritated with people when I got close to them. Oh,

[00:41:14] Adeel: okay. Like emotionally close to them, you just

[00:41:16] Jennifer: thought? Yes. Okay. Yeah. And so I think that definitely, was like an automatic, like wall without even really thinking much about it.

Even saying it now, I'm like, oh, wow, that, yeah. Like I do remember always being afraid of living with somebody. I, because

[00:41:33] Adeel: yeah, that's, I mean, that's a thing it's like afraid of commitment or that there's other labels that are adjacent but are not, not wanting to hear , that person eat thing.

So it's, I can see how you can or anyone can associate it to something that's more popular

[00:41:46] Jennifer: in terms of, yeah. And when I I remember being like, okay, everyone grows up and gets married and has kids and live with somebody. And I remember never being able to picture that life like, and.

and then the back of that was like, I end up hating everybody. I don't wanna hate like the person I have to live with. Yeah. I'm thinking it was, it's not hate it's this

[00:42:07] Adeel: condition. Do you give me speaking, do you, I don't, I was almost gonna ask do you hate people in general, but do you, I don't, do you look at people with that kind of obviously I jokingly I hate that person, whatever, but I know and we have these weird thoughts in our head obviously when we're getting triggered.

But do you walk around thinking just of generally don't like people? I don't like that person, but I'll, pretend to No,

[00:42:29] Jennifer: I would say

[00:42:29] Adeel: cause obviously you're not a hateful person, I could tell,

[00:42:31] Jennifer: exactly. , I was gonna say I think that's the cruelty of this condition.

Yeah. Is cuz I think I am a very social person. I think I would definitely be more of a an extrovert and a a people person. Yeah. If I also didn't have this intolerance . ,

[00:42:46] Adeel: That. Do you sorry,

[00:42:46] Jennifer: go on. I, maybe I shouldn't even say this , but I do see that there, there does seem to be two different types of misophonia where some people are just like, screw everybody and it's it, they have to deal with us. And then there's the people that are like, this is our problem. And, it's understandable that people don't understand. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I'm in the latter yeah. ,

[00:43:10] Adeel: I think that's what most people are.

The former it's not sustainable. I can understand where I think we've all been there, but for very brief periods. But it's not a sustainable approach and it's not, probably not gonna be a solution. We're not gonna expect everyone to be quiet. All the time. What about for work stuff?

I dunno if we talked about like how you've navigated Fortune. Oh, .

[00:43:32] Jennifer: Yeah. That's . I have my own business. I take care of people's pets. It's something I started about 10 years ago. I never thought it would be my career, but it actually works for me so well. And I realized there again, I like, I subconsciously made my life where I don't have to be around people.

I don't have to be indoors, , I don't have to, I have worked in offices that has been very difficult. Yeah. Before that I worked for an airline when I was in my early twenties, and that, that kind of environment is okay, because when you're in a big space, quiet noise. Yeah. But the sitting in a quiet office that was like, no, not that was as bad as the exams in college.

And I didn't realize it at the time. I was like I hate this environment for many reasons. But I thought maybe my reactions were, because I hate, I was so miserable in the job , like that it made me also Yeah. Sensitive to everybody's noises and stuff. And can I say I, this is I'm sure you encounter this all the time.

It's a very interesting thing, having an audio recording about misophonia to misophonia acts and that are like, I realize my voice can be triggering to people and noises I'm making can be triggering. , that's like an unusual thing about, misophonia is that you might be a trigger yourself and you can be aware of that but you just can't help it,

[00:44:57] Adeel: right?

. I find that I beat so in-person con meho conventions, and I find that in most cases just the fact that you're talking to another person who understands takes that, that your brain's threat radar away and

[00:45:10] Jennifer: yeah, maybe, yeah. because I, I reali a couple times, like my voice went down at the end that I call it mumble core, but they call it like that vocal fry.

And I'm like, oh my God, why am I doing that? And I can't tolerate it for a second if I hear it on a TikTok or something. And so I'm like, I apologize in advance to anybody .

[00:45:29] Adeel: Oh yeah, no, no worries. Some people just have write on Reddit. They don't like my voice. But it's pretty hard.

It's but someone understands I don't get offended at all. Yeah, great. Wait till wait till the transcripts come out. And then

[00:45:39] Jennifer: so yeah, I guess if somebody needs to do that, they can do that.

[00:45:42] Adeel: I, we're getting, I could, I think I can go on for a while, but Ooh, they do have to get back to my my day job.

But yeah, I dunno. This is amazing. A any kind of last kind of things you wanna share with people. And we'll have another opportunity maybe before I post this, if if you want to, I can. Can be a message or whatever, but any, anything, any like kind of last things wanna share with the community?

Gosh. Yeah. Not to put you on the spot, you

[00:46:06] Jennifer: know, . Yeah. I guess just hang in and keep sharing. , there's a story because it's legitimizing it, which is I think huge for a lot of people.

[00:46:16] Adeel: Yeah. A lot of people suffer in silence. They don't have a, they don't have a support next to them or even have like a daughter like you do who's an ally.

So I think sometimes there's an expect thing, or at least can maybe start a conversation. Cuz some people actually have sent these, episodes to somebody in their life and it can I've actually heard both sides. I've heard it work out well, but I've also heard it not work out well.

That's not to put a, not to put a camera on it, but that's on the other person I think.

[00:46:41] Jennifer: Yeah, no, I definitely tried to do the same thing, but and I know when I was doing that, my, I was trying to, show my parents that I'm not the, difficult, miserable person they think I am. And and so even if they can't hear it, I have to remind myself that I think to me has been the biggest perception change that I always looked at myself as trouble, basically, like my mother's nickname for me was trouble.

And and now I think oh wow. That's not who I really am. And I'm like remembering this joyful kid I was and that that's the real me. Yeah.

[00:47:21] Adeel: Let's end on, let's end on that memory cuz yeah that's a, yeah, that's a beautiful story. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks, Jennifer for coming on.

[00:47:27] Jennifer: This is great. Thanks for having me. This was great.

[00:47:32] Adeel: Thank you again, Jennifer. Once again that was just surreal and emotional conversation for me and yeah, I'm. I'd love to hear what everyone else thinks. If you like this episode, don't forget, you can leave a quick review or hit the five stars wherever you listen to this podcast.

You can hit me up by email, hello miss funny podcast.com, or go to the website@missfunnypodcast.com. You can reach me on Instagram or Facebook, disappointed podcast. Support the show by visiting patreon com Podcast music, as always is by and until next week, wishing peace

[00:48:09] Jennifer: and.