Chelsea, LMFT - Therapist's Dual Battle with Misophonia

Adeel [0:01]: Welcome to the Misophonia Podcast. This is Season 6, Episode 7. My name's Adeel Ahmad, and I have Misophonia. This week I'm talking to Chelsea, a licensed marriage and family therapist who provides traditional and faith-based counseling to individuals and couples through her private practice, Grace Christian Counseling. Chelsea has misophonia, which of course comes up in her practice. This is really a lovely conversation that was very wide-ranging. often going into directions that rarely get explored on this podcast, like her connection to her faith and how it informs her therapy practice. Her focus on chronic illness, the concept of grieving for the things we lose out on due to misophonia, the fear of missing out, envy, and anticipatory anxiety. And of course, her own misophonia origin story and how it's affected her family and how she approached it with her now husband. Really enjoyed this. Lots to take in here. And I'll have show notes to her website and blog, which you should check out. As always, let me know what you think. You can reach out to me by email at hello at misophoniapodcast.com or hit me up on Instagram or Facebook at Misophonia Podcast. I've been hearing more and more actually from people just discovering the podcast recently and it's great that new people are benefiting from all the experiences that we hear in these interviews. Speaking of which, you may have noticed that there are a limited number of interview slots open over the next few weeks. If you'd like to share your story, feel free to grab a slot. I'd love to chat. There'll be more opening up soon for January. And so stay tuned for that as well. By the way, please do head over and leave a quick rating wherever you listen to this show. It helps drive us up in the algorithms. And I think that may be where a lot of these new listeners are coming from. So that's a very easy way to support other misophones. Thanks also to our ongoing Patreon supporters. If you feel like contributing, you can read all about it at patreon.com slash misophonia podcast. um that's actually one way that we're have been able to use a new audio platform for a recording podcast which should hopefully start to sound even better all right now here's my conversation with chelsea chelsea welcome to the podcast good to have you here thank you i'm excited to chat yeah awesome so um you know what just kind of want you to let us know kind of where you're located

Chelsea [2:38]: Yeah, I am from Oklahoma, but I recently moved to Houston, Texas. So I am adjusting to that. But loyal Oklahoman. So that's where I'm at.

Adeel [2:52]: Gotcha. Okay, cool. And yeah, what do you do for a living? This is obviously going to tie into the Miss Pony a little bit, I think.

Chelsea [3:00]: Yeah, I am a marriage and family therapist. So I work with my own practice. It's called Grace Christian Counseling. And I see individuals all online through Zoom, essentially kind of like what we're doing now. I see individuals, couples, not a ton of families, but help with family support. And I love doing work with people who have chronic illness or disabilities. which obviously falls into the misophonia realm, which was not my initial pursuit in counseling at all, but kind of where obviously my path landed me.

Adeel [3:37]: Right. So actually, I got to ask just to confirm, do you have misophonia yourself then?

Chelsea [3:41]: Yes, I do.

Adeel [3:42]: Okay. Okay. Gotcha.

Chelsea [3:43]: Right.

Adeel [3:45]: And yeah, I was just checked out your Instagram and then obviously your website before we got on. And I saw, yeah, I mean, you have a whole section on obviously all these, you know, the other... um conditions but misophonia is like front and center and you have a whole post about misophonia and uh talk about your approach so um yeah that's interesting so have you you have misophonia always been part of the practice it sounds like no right i think you just answered my question probably yeah yeah so i initially went into the counseling field uh to work with

Chelsea [4:20]: mostly teenagers and I ended up doing that. But I started having symptoms of misophonia when I was in high school and it really didn't progress to a point. Now it's pretty bad where it affects nearly every aspect of my day. But in high school, it was just a few different triggers. I didn't have a name for it, didn't know it was going to end up being such a disability or an illness for me. But as I have kind of evolved in the triggers, daily life just got harder and i suffered with a few other chronic illness as well and so that's reading about the other chronic illnesses that i suffer from started helping me connect the dots between though a lot of people don't see misophonia as a chronic illness it shares a lot of the same symptoms and struggles as an illness or disability and so that's when i kind of started bridging the two together A lot of things that I did for my chronic illness actually helped me manage my misophonia. And so it kind of just all came together in that way.

Adeel [5:21]: Oh, gotcha. Okay. And interesting. And yeah, maybe let's just go back to high school and we'll lead up to everything you're doing. now but um so you start yeah i noticed it around high school would you say it was pretty typical kind of origin story high schools are usually a little bit later than when a lot of people notice that i'm just curious kind of what was going on around that time yeah i had a lot of family issues that were difficult stressful uh kind of

Chelsea [5:51]: It's really chaotic. And I never would have connected misophonia and that. I still really don't know what I think about all that. But that definitely was a high stress period in my life. And that's when the first triggers started. I had no idea that it was misophonia. I thought it was just a pet peeve. And I don't know, are we able to share certain triggers or do we stay away from that?

Adeel [6:13]: Oh, yeah. No, you can share them. Just, you know, don't like make the sounds. Okay.

Chelsea [6:19]: Don't worry about that. Yeah. So my first one, the earliest memory I had was just, I don't know, a lot of people might still be on Twitter today, but Twitter was a big thing back then. And I just remember having a ton of tweets. I'd be sitting in class and I would just have these rageful tweets about people chewing their gum. And it would just send me over the edge. And I just thought, and people knew that was just a huge pet peeve of mine. And then after that, it was more so I had to have the TV on when eating with my family. And I did not have the ability to articulate. I don't think what was going on for me. Obviously, I was a teenager, but my family knew that I liked to have the TV on because I didn't want to hear people, too. But that, of course, just escalated as time went on. I still keep that part of my life pretty private from my family. Their initial responses weren't super validating or encouraging. I kind of... felt crazy. And I definitely picked up that vibe. And of course they had no idea how to label it either. But that definitely is when it started. And then as it's kind of progressed, it's something that I really struggled with shame and guilt. I'm sure like y'all do. and so learning the balance of now obviously i promote it on my business and yet a lot of people personally don't know that about me so that's been interesting delicate balance kind of getting away from your initial question but that was this is i like these kinds of uh i know i totally follow what i mean i totally follow where you're going so this is great Yeah, so that's probably the earliest memory. Like you said, you asked how it's kind of progressed over the years. Now I would say there's, like most people, a multitude of triggers that have developed since that point. And so that's kind of what led me on the journey to, I've done a lot of, especially being a therapist, doing a lot of research and figuring out you know, the origins of this, the treatment options, all of that stuff. So that's been kind of the last couple of years. And then I would say this last year, as I started working with chronic illness and disability, and I'm sure you saw this on my website, but leaning more in towards acceptance and not acceptance in the fact of like, I'm just going to give up. This is how it is. But not trying so many control strategies and making it my entire world. has really helped me find a lot of freedom from just the negative emotional consequences of misophonia so definitely doesn't change my triggers and but it does help me i think cope overall with just how i perceive my life and how i perceive myself and that has obviously helped me just manage and have a better mental health overall even though it's still know only seems to get worse with time and age which is scary um but i've found um through different avenues i'm sure we'll talk about just ways to to not let it totally ruin my quality of life

Adeel [9:11]: Yeah, yeah, no, I definitely want to get into those avenues. But yeah, I was listening to what you're saying from earlier on. I just want to clarify a few things, because it was super interesting, every aspect of this. The tweets that you were talking about, was that you were firing up tweets? Yeah. Okay, or I wasn't sure if that was that or the tweets, like tweet sounds were bothering you or whatever.

Chelsea [9:34]: Oh, yeah. Yes, it makes sense. Yeah, to clarify, I would just be a raging 16-year-old tweeting out the world.

Adeel [9:41]: In class. And then all your classmates are like, they're getting notified. And they're like, what's going on?

Chelsea [9:46]: That's the goal. We're the death scare that we all give people that they don't notice.

Adeel [9:50]: Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, that's the very internet passive aggressiveness that I totally understand. Yes. People right next to you are being tweeted about. Okay, cool. Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, classic kind of stories in terms of like, you know, family chaos happening. And it did. Was it particular family members that were triggering you or did it start at school and then they kind of get into the house?

Chelsea [10:19]: Yeah. Yeah. So dinner time, I do remember it being two particular family members. One didn't really seem to bother me too much. That has changed. That person has now developed some things that, of course, bother me. But early on, I remember it being basic table manners. Of course, you know, people have very strict dinner manners, but something that I thought was like obvious, like, you know, you don't talk with your mouth full and certain things like that, that were my initial ones. And since that moment, you know, it's been a lot more, you know, it usually, of course, starts out as with one thing and then evolves into several different things and just one trigger. And so it's expanded to more triggers with those two people and then eventually expanded to all family members doing different things that kind of bothered me.

Adeel [11:11]: And did you follow this career path due primarily to misophonia or was it an interest in psychology in general?

Chelsea [11:19]: Yeah, it was really just an interest in psychology in general. Like I said, I kind of had a chaotic family situation at the time. And I think that definitely led me to pursue that degree. I also had just always really struggled with anxiety and depression. Of course, they always joke that therapists get into this field because they're trying to fix themselves and families. And that's very true. So I think that's initially, you know, the triggers at the time, they were they were weird and hard for me, but they were definitely not life altering. And so I didn't think about it a lot. Of course, I was triggered. And it really even in undergraduates, I didn't struggle all that much in class and classes, which I know is a huge. struggle and i really don't think i would be able to do that today in the state i'm in now but luckily in my undergraduate classes there were times i was definitely annoyed and frustrated but i just thought i had a hard time focusing i didn't know that it was this disorder um so i wouldn't say it was until grad school that really i started i had i started getting a name for it i started having a hard time focusing in class with certain classmates and it was a really small programs, only eight of us. And it was like all day for several days of the week. And so people would eat in class. You were just confined in very small spaces. And that's when it definitely became much more of an issue. So as time got on, you know, grad schools really started impacting me. And I still did not really understand or do a lot of research on it. And it wasn't until probably three years ago where it was like, really impacting my everyday life at work, at home, in relationships. And it kind of only just progressed from there to where I kind of had to start rearranging my life. And that's when I started thinking about how I could use that struggle in my therapy world and help people in that realm.

Adeel [13:13]: yeah no i mean kind of almost fortunately you were kind of uh you know well equipped to to think about how to how to start uh handling it and obviously even better to help other people um so let's uh yeah maybe we'll yeah why don't we talk about like how um well yeah let's talk about uh how did how was it starting to impact like work and family life and stuff like what were some of the i don't do you have any like

Chelsea [13:40]: cringy moments that uh yes so i actually worked at it kind of was like considered a call center it was a suicide crisis line and so it was as you can imagine a call center there's just lots of different people with not a lot of barriers so you're all just in a room answering the phone and it was 12 hour shifts and so once again a lot of times people would be just sitting around and eating and that really became a problem and so we did have to wear a headset but of course when i didn't when i was on a phone call i still heard things around me and i would have to turn the volume up of course all the way and i couldn't wear headphones because i had to be present on the other headset and so that is when i started really struggling and at work and people eating of course near me and then people typing you know we're all on computers and we're documenting like crazy as the calls are coming in and so a lot of people pounding on their keyboard um and then Just being in close quarters with people in the car as we're traveling to different homes and meeting with people. And so that's when I sought out more specific help for misophonia. So I had gotten in contact with an audiologist who did the hearing aids that do the white noise. Oh, yeah.

Adeel [14:58]: Like the white apps and those things.

Chelsea [14:59]: Yeah. Yeah. I always forget they're called. So that's when I reached out for that. And that was a big step. I was like, I feel so incredibly embarrassed. There's no way I'm ever going to let anyone know that I'm wearing these hearing aids. That feels like next level crazy. I was very shameful about it. But the audiologist was like, you can hardly see it. And that was a big reason I wanted to do it was because I couldn't just I felt uncomfortable wearing headphones. But with the hearing aids, I felt uncomfortable. Like, okay, that's one discreet way of helping me get through a meal time or get through work. I can put the hearing aids in and then my headset and that helped a lot. But of course, I just felt so much shame about it. So just it gave me a lot of anxiety, even though it was supposed to help relieve some anxiety.

Adeel [15:39]: Was the shame from just how it looked or?

Chelsea [15:43]: you know other other aspects of shame and guilt yeah my next question i i think because of the family environment and how they initially responded to it i not that they ever said i was crazy um but it kind of was you know laughed at minimize eye rolls like just you know get over it that's weird um and so i think that's i just felt a lot of shame about misophonia in general and then the hearing aids felt like oh my gosh like i'm using hearing aids for this issue that's not even really an issue that i should just be able to get over that's weird um you know if i was deaf and needed hearing aids like i don't think i would question it at all um but it was just the fact that it was a um you know, hearing device to block out noise where I felt like, okay, this is not legitimate enough for me to have to wear hearing aids. So I don't know why so much shame and guilt got wrapped up in that. I wear them all the time now and I still don't really tell, I tell a handful of people, but I wear the hearing aids to family dinners and they still don't know. And that is something I'm still working through because I'm sure you read, like I think sharing it with safe people actually can break apart a lot of that shame and guilt and bring a lot of comfort and relief. And so I'm still working on that with safe people and hopefully eventually I will get to a point where I can share that more openly with my family. But I'm not sure where it all came from. I just know that it was very ingrained in me that something was wrong with me if I had to do that.

Adeel [17:19]: Yeah, and going back to, I didn't mean to suggest that like, you know, being shameful for how something looks. It's like, well, I didn't mean to question that. I figured that, yeah, it would be about a lot of other things. I didn't mean, I don't want to make it sound like I was just asking if you were shameful for how it looked. But yeah, but obviously you have guilt and shame and... Let's talk a little bit about that before we get into your practice now. Obviously, we all share that. I share that, especially with family members growing up and whatnot. You said you don't tell a lot of family members. The family that you grew up in, they must at least know. They know that you had symptoms. Do they just not talk about it anymore or do you just not bring it up? Have you told them about the term?

Chelsea [18:08]: Right. I'm trying to think. I know that through time, I don't know if it was my mom or my sister, I know that they sent me an article and been like, wow, this is specific for you. And I'll be like, yeah, that's what I have.

Adeel [18:23]: But they're just kind of dismissive about it or joking about it.

Chelsea [18:26]: Yeah, if it's actually happening, that's when it's like... eye roll, not really thinking about it. And part of that is not their fault at all. I have not been super on the vulnerable side when I was 16. I would more so just leave the room or kind of lash out on Twitter. I never, now that I'm older, I think I probably have more verbiage to be able to describe that this is a disorder but i would say my family background also um they're not huge emotional vulnerable um pro therapy kind of people um and so having more vulnerable conversations even if it's something not misophonia related is is kind of hard um and so i think that's why i kind of stayed clear just because we kind of stay surface um and so part of that is you know my choice and my responsibility of recognizing that they don't have probably all of the knowledge and tools to be able to help me. I haven't given that to them.

Adeel [19:20]: Yeah. Um, yeah, not, not it. Right. Not everyone. Um, yeah, is, is, is, uh, not everyone has an easy time talking about that stuff or is used to talking about that stuff. Um, And yeah, you're right about like safe people. Like a lot of us, especially as the older we get, we've had so many bad reactions that we almost at some point just don't even bother mentioning because it's like, you know, the odds are that it's not going to be positive. So why don't we just like hightail it out of there? And then there's obviously compounds. And then that adds to the shame and guilt. like it's not making anything better would you say um with your did you have siblings as well yes i have a sister okay and and do you ever think back and feel like yeah you know are they kind of maybe do you feel like you have some distance that maybe other family members don't have between each other like that misophonia maybe caused a little bit of a wedge

Chelsea [20:23]: Yeah, I think as I get older, I fear that happening more because I tend to, you know, avoid certain situations. I definitely would say I lived with my dad after graduating for a time and he traveled for a living. So he wasn't home a lot. But when we were home, I would stay in my back bedroom and I would feel. horrible because i loved my dad i wanted to spend time with him but it was just too much for me um some of the sounds and i just couldn't bring it to tell it to him um and so i definitely let that be a wedge where of course he probably was like why is she always in her back bedroom um so i think situations like that and of course when i'm thinking about you know making plans with someone i try and assert a little bit of control, like where we're going, how long I'm going to be there. And so I definitely feel like there's missed opportunities to connect with people at times because I am so cautious about putting myself in triggering situations, which sometimes means that I'm not spending time with people that I love.

Adeel [21:28]: Yeah. Very common patterns with friends as well. Like how does that kind of maybe affected like the friends you choose to be around or choose to have?

Chelsea [21:39]: yeah so i being a therapist i think i i really appreciate more vulnerable relationships i'm not a very surface level person so i think that's been helpful in some instances where i do have several really close friends who I have felt comfortable sharing with over the years, I still am working on when they're triggering me, I don't tell them, which is a problem. Okay.

Adeel [22:03]: So they know you have misophonia, but then in the moment, it's like, you just kind of try to wait for it. Like with all of us, like we, we just feel like, ah, let's, we just wait it out or get through it or, or deal with it some non-confrontative way.

Chelsea [22:20]: Right. Yeah. And I, that has been like, know i'm a therapist and i'm preaching to people to to share with safe people and then here i am only being truthful um and there are some friends who i i know that maybe certain triggers they do and so if we're not in the moment and they're asking me about misophonia i will mention like okay this is a trigger this is a trigger and they don't recognize they're not cognizant usually that that's them doing it um but i do have you know this is one of the one of the things you would play on the post was like a memorable experience and i have a friend um who is just above and beyond supportive and she you know i'm just fearful of going over to people's houses um i didn't want to be stuck in a situation where i wouldn't have a way out and so i told her about my misophonia and i you know was planning a visit to see her and she was like I already have everything planned. We're not going to have anything crunchy. I'm going to have a fan on in the background. My husband, like he knows about it, which was fine with me that she shared. And she was like, we like, I have a sound machine. Like she was like above and beyond did things that were just so sweet. And it made me, you know, I was never triggered at her house. And that was a really memorable experience of like, Hey, if you're open with safe people, they will do their best to love you well and accommodate you. um you know hopefully depending on the person um but she's also a therapist and so i think that helps but it was just so memorable because i think sometimes we can get so caught up in like how every experience is going to be negative and how every person's going to respond poorly and no one's going to understand. And that was a moment that kind of combated some of those negative beliefs I've had and has given me more confidence to other friends to say like, hey, do you mind if I come over if we do this or we do that? Or I tell them, hey, I'm really anxious about like, I know it might sound crazy, but like the sound issue I have, you know, I'm just worried about spending excess time there doing this. And people have been really receptive to that.

Adeel [24:19]: Yeah, no, it's easy for us to get very pessimistic or just kind of nervous about every situation and just assume the worst. But yeah, sometimes if somebody at least even tries a little bit, it's like enough for somehow to kind of calm our bodies down and be able to get through. But yeah, thank you for sharing that. I mean, it's powerful to hear that even the best therapists can struggle with it. So, yeah, maybe you want to talk a little bit about how you start to incorporate it into your practice and what are some of the avenues. I know you have some unique avenues that maybe not every therapist uses because of the nature of your practice. Yeah, you want to talk a little bit about how it's informed your practice?

Chelsea [25:11]: Yeah, so I... Like I mentioned earlier, my practice is called Grace Christian Counseling. So I definitely market more towards the faith based clientele, though I see people on a big spectrum of that and don't necessarily limit myself to that. But My greatest coping, I think, of making sense of my suffering with misophonia and the other areas of my life that I suffer, my faith is a huge thing I draw upon. And so really making sense of misophonia in the context of my faith is really, really hard for a long time. There just didn't seem to be any redemption from misophonia for me. It only seemed to ruin my life, not bring any positives, because I'm sure a lot of people could share in that sentiment. And so as I was working through the other issues I mentioned that I suffered from, I started kind of... evolving, I think, my theology and my theology of suffering and what our purpose is here on this earth. And a lot of those questions led me to just kind of an acceptance in a purpose that I can find within Misophonia. And so I know that will look so different for each person. But so that's one part of, I would say, my practice is helping someone kind of work through whatever theology of suffering, not necessarily through Christianity, but like whatever your theology is, but helping make sense of that. Because obviously that's the framework that you're going to have in any area of your life when you're trying to make sense of something. And so whether it's symphonia or a relationship problem, you're always working from some kind of framework. and i really pull that in and but i also help people with just kind of it's more coaching honestly and because we both know there's not a treatment per se for misophonia at this point um so i try to be very clear about that like i don't have the answers to get rid of triggers I just help people find ways to manage their life and have a quality life despite having triggers. And so a lot of that looks like creating boundaries for themselves and not being ashamed of those. So for me, that's like a friend invites me to go to dinner at a Mexican restaurant. I say no. Crunchy chips. yes yes don't want that um love you hate the chips so um chicken wings would be a bad place as well yes yeah and honestly it's like every place there's probably something um so i've i've just found like okay if i have three things in the evenings that week that's just too overwhelming for my body and so if i can take care of myself in other ways if i'm sleeping well if i'm eating well from exercising well, my ability to cope with the triggers seems to be a little bit better. And so I've just worked on, I help people figure out what self-care routines and boundaries they need in their life. And so those boundaries can be physical, they can be emotional, relational, spiritual. A lot of stuff comes down to communicating. with family and friends or employers about your needs, advocating for your needs. And then of course, the lot of grief work I found, you know, there's so many losses associated with misophonia. The loss of normalcy, the life that you had hoped for or thought would be easy. The fact that there is no cure, that's hard to wrestle with. And so grieving, you know, and comparing to I'm almost 30 years old, comparing myself to other people and the things that they can do that I can't do because of misophonia. It creates obviously a lot of envy of other people, a lot of sadness, depression, anticipatory anxiety. And so kind of just working through all of that. And that's more of where it becomes coaching, but also therapy of like all the byproducts of misophonia. So the anxiety that you experience, the depression, the hopelessness, all of that is definitely stuff that can be worked through. That doesn't mean it's eliminating syphonia, but it just means it's managing your life in a way that doesn't feel so hopeless and overwhelming.

Adeel [29:13]: Yeah, that's a fascinating aspect. I saw that on your website about the grief and loss aspect. I don't want to ask you specifically about what types of, because it's not just, you know, when you see grief, you automatically think of someone losing their life. there's all these like um fear of missing out and uh aspects um and depression and wondering if this is ever going to get better that um yeah that you don't hear about as much as a you know something that needs to be taken care of uh apart from just the you know trying to get over the triggers that's really interesting that you kind of blend that in as well Because we usually talk about comorbid conditions in terms of just being in parallel with the misophonia, but the misophonia can cause a lot of this stuff too if you're constantly worrying about if it's going to get worse or that I'm not participating in life as the way I could. So that's really interesting.

Chelsea [30:12]: Yeah, yeah, I definitely found that when I was reading material about chronic illness and some of the chronic illness stuff I was facing, I started recognizing that, hey, these words are really encouraging to me in the realm of misophonia, even though they're definitely not talking about that. They're talking about these other issues, but I realized that so much would apply to the situation. And they talk a lot about in chronic illness and disability material, And just how much loss is associated with that and how it is a grieving process, because you might not be able to do the same activities that you still do. You might not be able to get down on the ground with your kid and play with them the way that you want to. And I was like the same thing for misophonia. You may not be able to sit at a table with your kid like you want. You may not be able to go to the parent teacher conferences like you want. There's just so many things. I know a big fear of mine is getting pregnant one day and just. hearing so many people talk about how that really escalates their triggers. And, you know, that's a fear and that's a brief to work through of like, okay, is that, you know, I'm not going to have a normal pregnancy. I'm not going to, my kid's not going to grow up in a normal quote unquote, if that's even a thing, environment because of this. And so there's just so much that I think parallels with other chronic issues that a lot of people you know, there's not a lot of research for misophonia and there's not a lot of support for people with misophonia. And so I think a good way that I have found support is by reading things of chronic illness or disability that is so applicable to misophonia.

Adeel [31:42]: When you talk about kind of a grieving process for misophonia, what are some of the things that are part of that process?

Chelsea [31:51]: Yeah, so... I think initially, you know, a lot of times, especially counseling and especially in the Christianity realm, the message I think people get sometimes is just to like pray more, have more faith, get over it. And I don't subscribe to that. So I think the first thing I do with grief work is just having a safe place for someone to talk about all the things that they're frustrated by, helpless, hopeless, that they're grieving. And I think even giving someone the language that it's grief helps. a lot of times it just feels unfair and it feels um you know frustrating to watch other people you're just becoming envious of other people other people don't seem to understand you and they don't get how hard it is and i think if you can put the word grief to that and help them realize that they're not this horrible person who's you know not empathetic but they're going through their own grieving process i think that usually helps people a lot just to have a word of recognizing what's going on for them And then having, of course, a space for someone who gets it. Like I, of course, have misophonia. And so clients, they hopefully, you know, feel that sense of shared feelings of what comes with that when you're struggling from the same thing. But, you know, even another therapist, you might not know about it. It's just creating a space that you can process and grieve. Whereas a lot of people, if you weren't up to a coworker and told them you were grieving because you had misophonia, they wouldn't understand. they wouldn't understand all the losses that come with that. And so I think just having a place and a space where it's okay to feel angry or to feel hopeless or to be anxious about what that means for your life is still healing in and of itself.

Adeel [33:33]: Yeah, I find it strange, but nicely strange that when you talk to someone else, it's totally different, I feel, talking to somebody with misophonia because you feel like you don't have to retell them every little detail. They already kind of know. It's like we've kind of walked each other's footsteps because a lot of our situations are so eerily similar. and so yeah i think yeah that's a great um but you know just giving people a space to kind of get it out because we've bottled things up so much as i'm sure i know i know you know um interesting do you want to uh you also want to talk about um so uh you know about um the faith aspect and chronic illness i'm sure there's uh um um you know i know um faith-based um thinking tries to answer the question of like like or people try to ask like why did this bad thing happen to me? Is that something that comes up when you're talking about faith and misophonia? Here's kind of how you, maybe not answer that, but just kind of discuss that question or explore that question.

Chelsea [34:39]: Yeah, that is a great question. So I have my kind of own theology of how I've come to that. But when I do, so I'll answer that question personally. And then when it comes to working with clients, I help them explore what that means for them. So that doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to come to the same shared understanding or theology that I have. But for me, what's helped me make sense of that was really asking myself the question of, okay, what do I really believe this life's about? If I believe that it's to, ultimately know the Lord and honor him and glorify him, then what does that look like in my suffering? And initially I would have said, well, I'm doing a horrible job because I'm isolating from others. lashing out at others. I avoid any kind of, you know, service to other people because I'm terrified of my reaction. And so for a while, I struggled a lot with, you know, my theology was, well, I'm supposed to be serving. I'm supposed to be faithful. I'm supposed to be doing all these things and be gracious towards people. And I just, my body couldn't do that. And so I felt like a huge failure to God and to other people. I was totally failing that mission. And through a lot of counseling myself, and I am married now, and my husband has helped me a lot to have a better theology of that. Now I ask myself that same question. What do I really believe this life is about? And I still believe it's about honoring and glorifying the Lord. But my definition of that or how that looks, I think, is very different. All throughout the Bible, there are stories of the Lord using people who are really broken and who have nothing to offer. And that those are the people he delights in using. And so I think for a while I had a really negative, harmful Christian belief system that told me that it was only worth something to God if I could produce something for him. And I realized that that's actually not the gospel at all. And I. you know think about okay how can i honor and glorify the lord now with my limitations and i've come to an understanding that the lord uses um he delights in using people that have weaknesses and limitations because that's ultimately way better than someone who's just self-sufficient and kind of pharisee-like and sees no need for a savior um so that's helped me a lot and also just recognizing that if i believe that life is about honoring and glorifying him then it's really not about my ultimate happiness and my pleasure from earthly things. And so having a more eternal perspective has really helped me cope and get through each day and have meaning to the misophonia. I know that if I didn't have this issue or the other chronic illness issues I have, that I would not be dependent on the Lord at all. And do I, you know, that's a whole other question that people come up with. But I know that for me, that is the only thing that is actually sustaining to me. I could have nothing in this world, but as long as I have the hope of Jesus that I can cling to, that is enough for me to be able to get through each day. And I think that ultimately that kind of perspective and attitude is more honoring and glorifying to God than if I were just doing a bunch of self-righteous acts. And so that is what's really helped me figure out like, okay, ultimately this life is not about just how happy I am. And, you know, some people might, that might be their theology and that's okay. But for me, my theology is, is not about just how I can get through this life and be the happiest and how. i can get get get from everything and everyone have the best house have all the money have the best marriage have all the great kids and i don't think it's necessary about that and so that's really helped me when i especially i struggle with envy when i look at other people and how easy their lives seem and how careless and i get really frustrated like i just want a day where i don't have to worry about that um and it's not fair that misophonia causes so much depression and anxiety within me and I can get really down and out quick if I go down that loophole. And so when I have the framework and the mindset that this life should be about pleasing me, that's when I get really stuck. But when I shift my gears and remind myself what I actually believe this life is about, that helps me, I think, push through a little bit more in those difficult times.

Adeel [38:47]: Wow. Yeah. Fascinating perspective. Yeah. That's really interesting. Yeah. And not just on a misophonia level. Um, yeah, you're right. And then the whole, I mean, envy is a whole other, I'm sure there are many podcasts about that, but, and that's not, that's not getting any better with everyone looking at each other's needs or whatever. Um, I feel like that's exacerbated in the last 10, 15 years. Um, which, which is all interestingly kind of coincides with when, you know, more, more, more with the term misophonia being 10, 15 years ago. I mean, I think that's a coincidence, but I mean. um i'm sure for folks who are feeling guilty and and um left out that's probably um not not helping um and interesting yeah and and yeah yeah i like your perspective on uh thinking kind of more on an eternal level because a lot of us just kind of get bogged down in the moment. So anything we can do to think about, think more broader, I think helps kind of get our heads unstuck. Have you... Go on, sorry. Yeah.

Chelsea [39:55]: No, go ahead.

Adeel [39:56]: I was going to ask, outside of therapy, have you met, I know you don't talk about it that much, but have you met other people who have misophonia, whether it's friends or people on the street?

Chelsea [40:09]: Yeah, I don't know if other people run into this, but I think the more I've I understood misophonia myself. I've done a better job of describing it. But initially when I would tell people, other people would be like, oh yeah, I have that too. Or yeah, I'm used to it. I can't stand it.

Adeel [40:24]: Yeah. Do you ever feel a little skeptical? I feel very angry.

Chelsea [40:31]: When they do that, I'm like, you have no idea. I get very frustrated. And that's probably why I sometimes stay clear of even saying anything. And now when I talk about it, I say I have a neurological disorder that... um kind of put certain sounds put me in a fight or flight response and that of course sounds very different than like oh my gosh i have this thing where i hate it when people eat chips it makes me mad it drives me crazy like that obviously changes the dynamic and the flow of the conversation than the latter so i think the way that i've um started describing it to people has helped but i do there have been several people in my life who have been like oh my gosh yes i can't stand that and i have decided that like you know I think misophonia can be on a spectrum. And so I think some people probably have, you know, more pet peeve like tendencies versus a full on neurological disorder, if we're deeming it as that right now. And so I think that's been a little hard. I had a good friend who who would say that and she like, I totally get it. But then she would be able to totally sit through a dinner at a Mexican restaurant and not flinch. So I'm like, I don't know that you really understand what that means.

Adeel [41:42]: Some people might not have that particular trigger, but yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, I mean, not to question anybody's misophonia, but I've been in job interviews where the interviewer is trying to relate and they're saying that they have, oh, I think I have mild misophonia. And I'm like, oh, I'm not gonna last at this job. I can tell right now, but cool. Okay, interesting. And so I guess what are, do you have any like, so despite all this so you see your misfit is getting a worse and worse that seems like it's getting worse do you have any other like are your coping mechanisms mainly kind of like your um well i guess you got the the widex or whatever your um um your equipment that you have do you have any other kind of coping mechanisms that you do like how do you um at home like how do you um negotiate your boundaries and whatnot

Chelsea [42:37]: Yeah. Yeah. Great question. So I got married about a year ago and I was absolutely terrified for what that would mean for our marriage.

Adeel [42:47]: Could you, could I, could I break it into ask, like, did you tell him, like, when did you tell him that you had this phone?

Chelsea [42:53]: Yeah, that's a good, that's a good story. Um, so I was definitely afraid of telling him. Um, and so I held off for a while. Um, we were dating, I would sit through dinners and just be holding back tears. And then he told me after a few months of dating, he told me he loved me. And I was like, well, crap, he does not. Because the minute I tell him this, he is going to go. And so I was like, this is the time that I have to tell him. And so the next day I sat him down and I was like, listen, I haven't told you this. And I think it's really going to change things. I don't think you are going to love me after this. And I think, you know, having a relationship and getting married is something I definitely want. But I know it can wreak havoc on family members' lives. And I just need you to be prepared for what that means. And that was another memorable moment I wrote down in preparation for our time chatting because that is probably one of the greatest moments I've ever felt fully seen and known and so loved and accepted. Um, he was beyond gracious and was like, you know, Chelsea, this is something you can't control. This doesn't sound crazy at all to me. Like we'll work through it. I'm so honored that you told me like, what can I do to help you? Like what, what I will do anything and everything to make you feel comfortable when we're hanging out. And that meant the absolute world. Um, and it took me a long time to take him up on that and be honest with him when I was triggered, but he, when he knew about it, he could then tell my reactions and was like oh am i bothering you um and then he would immediately change his behavior but through just him changing his behaviors um and then of course always when i'm having a really down moment and feel really terrible about myself or we're in a situation together in which i'm triggered you know he leans over and um holds my hand or squeezes my leg or says do you want to go um he's just beyond supportive um and so Leading that question into how my coping strategies now, I luckily, I know I'm so fortunate in this department because there are people out there who are not nearly as understanding and sympathetic. But my husband is a great coping strategy. And he just does anything and everything to make life bearable in our house. And so we turn on a really loud fan from our oven vents when we eat. If he goes and even just puts one little small thing in his mouth, he turns on that fan. He learned how to literally swallow differently. When we got together, I could not stand the way he swallowed. and i didn't i could not tell him for the longest time because i was like this one is something that you can't change you can't some people have a yeah some people have an unusual unusually uh audible yes yes i'm like how i that just sounds uncomfortable so i was really convinced that there's just no way he could change that but i finally one day i just looked at him and i was like you swallow so loud and he was like oh i didn't know And then he worked on swallowing and I kid you not, I could not hear him swallow anymore. So there are things that you think aren't changeable can sometimes be changeable. So I would say, you know, to answer that question, I do wear the hearing aids. I have every headset you could imagine for different situations. I am on an antidepressant that does not get rid of the triggers, but helps my overall mood and ability to cope that has been a godsend. And that's what, you know, six plus medications for me to find when that worked. And so that was a really long process. And so giving hope to anyone out there who's tried that doesn't work for them. It did take me a long time, but it's been really helpful. And then I started working from home. So my practice is completely virtual. We live in a one story house. And so I don't have to worry about any steps or anything like that. That bothers me. And then another one, I just read a lot of books about suffering and hope in spite of suffering. And so that usually helps me just be grounded and having a good perspective day in and day out as well.

Adeel [47:07]: Wow, yeah, very multi-pronged approach there.

Chelsea [47:09]: Yes.

Adeel [47:11]: That's really interesting. And I was going to ask you something again, but I totally forgot because there were so many interesting things. Oh, yeah, some people have talked about how they take medication. Some people have said that they'll take something and they'll stop because it kind of numbs their feelings and then they don't feel like it's worth it. It sounds like you kind of tried different things until you landed on something different.

Chelsea [47:34]: um that was good balance for you i'm assuming or um are there any side effects that you still kind of question yeah absolutely so um i have struggled i mentioned this early on but i had struggled with anxiety and depression from an early age even before symphonia and so And I had been on medication for that reason for many years. And I mean, side effects. And I didn't feel like it was that helpful. And then when I got married, that's really the leading up to the wedding was when I was just under the most stress. I felt like I was developing a new trigger every day. and i had it off of an antidepressant and so i was like you know what i feel like i've tried a million at this point and nothing works but i am so desperate i need something um and so i reached out to my doctor and told them i had already tried i i think this was the first one you know after the other five um so a couple years in between getting on this one um but it did come with a lot of side effects initially i was really nauseous and i still struggle with some side effects with it as well and my stomach is not quite right which is really uncomfortable at times but my overall quality of life and mental health is better on the medication. And so I'm already, you know, pretty scared for the day that I have to get off of it when I get pregnant and it's not an approved medication. And so knowing that misophonia gets worse for most people in pregnancy is already a little kind of daunting to know that that's not going to be something that I can put in my tool belt for a while. But it has been something that's been really helpful.

Adeel [49:13]: So talk about the pregnancy aspect of it. I've heard, and from my own experience, obviously not from someone who's been pregnant, but after birth, for many people, and not everybody, but if it's your child who's making similar sounds, some reason your brain doesn't assign a threat to it. So at least that part for a lot of people. is better. But are you talking about actually during pregnancy, you've heard that misophonia can get worse? I've definitely heard that. People come on recently who've said that, yeah, I mean, hormones can, they feel like hormones is linked to misophonia somehow. What have you heard about misophonia in pregnancy, in short, is my question.

Chelsea [50:01]: Yeah. In short, and I will preface.

Adeel [50:03]: No, no, I don't mean you to go in short. I mean, I'm just trying to sum up my long-winded question.

Chelsea [50:08]: Oh, yes, that makes sense. So this is obviously not researched. What I'm about to say, I have not gotten from any kind of research article. It's mostly been from Facebook groups. It's just people's experience. So take that with a grain of salt, I guess. Facebook's always correct, so I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, so I have just seen a lot of people post about like, hey, I'm pregnant and I all of a sudden, my misophonia is 10 times worse. What's going on? And I've just seen that post so many times that I'm like, oh my gosh, I didn't know it could get worse. So I definitely just hear that you develop more triggers, the triggers are just more intense, or your reactions, I would say, I guess. So that is very troublesome to me, especially once you get a trigger, it feels... Like it just intensifies over time. You don't really hear a lot of people say they get a trigger and then later down the road, it doesn't bother them anymore. Or at least it hasn't been my experience. So when I get one, it usually is there to stay. And it usually just intensifies over time. And so my fear is, gosh, well, I'm going to be quite a miserable person for nine months. But also, I don't want to develop triggers in that time period that I don't need anymore. And so if pregnancy is going to escalate that, that's a pretty terrifying thought. So pregnancy in itself is a little scary for me to think about. But then also, like you said, the actual having kids aspect, I think there's been a little comfort in that realm because I've heard similar stories that their kiddos, especially young kiddos, don't bother them as much. But my husband and I were watching a TV show the other night and it was a group of adult children at the dinner table with their family and they had their spouses and grandkids there. And I just immediately started crying because I was like, that is never going to happen for me. Like I would hate to have my kid in therapy one day saying, well, mom was crazy with her sound stuff. I felt like I was walking on eggshell all the time because you couldn't make certain sounds. And that's been kind of a fear to work through of like, gosh, I don't want to be. in an environment or create an environment in which my kids feel that they can't be kids. So I, you know, my husband has encouraged me of like, you cannot make a decision based totally on fear. Like you need to also reach out to people who have this and who actually are doing, they find ways to manage it. And he's been encouraging of like, hey, these are our kids and we have total control of our environment. If we want to eat with a fan on and give them plastic utensils and tell them they can't eat popcorn, like we have control over that. And so that's been helpful because know a lot of situations whether it's work environment or social outings we don't have control and so actually having kids in the house doesn't really it definitely changes things and you do lose control but the same token you actually have more control in that situation than say you're going out to a mexican restaurant

Adeel [52:59]: Yeah, I mean, you're doing the thinking about it right now, which is great. And you can prepare for a time when you do have kids. You'll have a bunch of strategies in place. But yeah, maybe not great that you're already kind of worried about it, but at least you can kind of process it. You can go through that almost like a, I don't want to say grieving process, but a process to kind of really prepare for if and when that you choose to go in that direction. And yeah, I've had people on the podcast who obviously have misophonia and also have kids who have had to deal with their reactions to various degrees. I also know other therapists who have misophonia and also have kids who may or may not have misophonia. So if you ever wanted to get in touch with other folks or listen to episodes, I can kind of point you in some directions there to maybe shed some more light. um but yeah so i'm yeah maybe we'll actually we're getting close to an hour or so but i'm sure we can go on yeah i'm curious kind of how um okay yeah like i'm trying to bookmark a couple things in my head to ask but one thing is just um so something yeah you have a very kind of multi-pronged approach that is um both you know physical device oriented medication faith um What are, and you say like the triggers have gotten a lot worse. You don't know how it can get any worse. When does it manifest you the most? Because it almost seems like if you just heard your coping mechanism, it seems like you've got a pretty set situation. I'm just kind of curious kind of how you, where are the holes still there?

Chelsea [54:44]: Yeah, I think it's actually funny that you say that because I think my husband has pointed that out to me a lot recently of how I talk a lot about how hard it is. But he's like, we are also doing so much better. Like you have so much ability to cope with it better. And I'm like, you're right. So I think a lot of it comes down to just like years, almost like a trauma of it being years I've dealt with. And I haven't quite realized that like. I'm not, I am okay. And I'm better than I was. I think it goes back to kind of what I was saying too. Like a lot of times I think we get so stuck in ridding it and fixing it and trying to have as much control over it as possible that it like puts us in this vicious cycle of where we feel so out of control and helpless in it. And I think that's something I have to sometimes realize is like, wow, I actually have a lot of coping skills that do help me feel more in control. And this doesn't have to be all consuming because I am living a quality life. It looks different maybe than what I would have hoped for at times, yes. But I think I'm sometimes living in this past mindset that makes me feel like it's unbearable when in reality, I'm doing a lot better. So I love that you pointed that out as well. And then the moments where it's hardest, I would say, is probably just anticipating moments so i had a friend come in town recently and though i was so excited to see her and so thrilled and honored that she would come spend the weekend with me i was also just so anxious dreading how i was going to be triggered throughout the weekend and so it just sucked all the joy out of like anticipating good events coming in my life So I think that's a big one of like, you know, the child, like having a child question. It's just constantly on my mind. And that's anticipatory anxiety and dread really sucks the life out of the good things going on in my life. You know, thinking about like I. mentioned faith is really important to me. So going to church is something that I really enjoy doing. And I become really anxious and dreadful about it because I know that there's going to be someone there who's sniffling or doing something.

Adeel [56:45]: Yeah, because at church, there's always somebody. With any house of worship, there's always somebody.

Chelsea [56:51]: yes exactly you know they could be doing a number of sounds and um that's when i get really frustrated because i'm like hey this is a place where i'm supposed to feel the most peace and i feel like losing my mind um and so i think in moments where i have this expectation or assumption that it's supposed to be a certain way that's when i get really upset um and so i you know tried working on that going back to my mindset and my faith of like okay I, if I really believe what I say, I believe then why am I so shocked when life doesn't go exactly the way I want it to? And that's, I'm not happy all the time. And so I think my coping skills have been super great and super helpful. And it's really a mind game sometimes at this point of, you know, there's this suffering of misophonia itself. And then there's the suffering of how you're suffering. And I think that's what I really had to work on. Sometimes it's the way I'm conceptualizing misophonia in my life that actually is making me suffer a lot worse than the misophonia itself.

Adeel [57:52]: Yeah, and I think, you know, that's great. And, you know, I think you and many of us, I mean, no one was there to really coach us when we were going through all this for most of our lives. So we're kind of developing our, and you're developing... um you know all these thinking patterns think yourself so it's not like we we have a lot of um we're kind of we're kind of coaching ourselves in real time because we haven't really had anybody so i think we should give ourselves a break and you know and not expect us to um be perfect every time

Chelsea [58:24]: Right. Yeah. My husband has been super helpful in that. He can sometimes give me the language that I need to be more compassionate or graceful towards myself because I can be very quick to have this inner critic and judge myself for the way that I'm thinking or responding or having these negative beliefs about myself because of misophonia. And he is a very tangible, present way to remind me and speak truth over me in that way. Once again, I'm very, very, very fortunate to have that because I know a lot of people have the exact opposite of that, which can only, I imagine, just complicate things. I don't know how someone does it without good support.

Adeel [59:02]: Sounds like a keeper.

Chelsea [59:04]: Yeah. Well, here it is. So he's here to stay.

Adeel [59:06]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, a final point before I kind of ask if you have anything else you want to share, because it sounds like you had taken some notes. So I definitely want to, I know we're getting to an hour, but if there's anything else I want to hear. The rest of your family, I mean, especially if you were to have kids, you're going to have to spend more time with your extended or your nuclear and extended family. I'm curious, where are they still in the eye roll phase? And do you feel like that's going to get any better or?

Chelsea [59:32]: yeah that's a great question and one we've been talking a lot about lately um so we just moved to houston from oklahoma and so there's a physical distance now that wasn't there before that has helped me in a lot of ways um but obviously it's not sustainable long term especially having kids like you mentioned there are going to be a lot more involvement in activities uh dinners all of that um and so I am still trying to figure out a good way because at this point it's so a part of my life that it almost feels like this huge hidden secret I've kept from them. And so now it's like, how do you all of a sudden drop this bombshell that like, Hey, um, I'm doing this podcast and I have this blog and I see clients with this issue that I specialize in and you didn't know about it. Um, so that's a little awkward. Um, you know, with my family in particular, it's, you know, more of the Iowa stage. Um, but I have thought more and more about, um, kind of extending an olive branch in some way of like just sharing, hey, this has been something I've been really embarrassed about, really shameful about, but it's impacting, especially when you have kids, like it's gonna impact the way that I can spend time with you. And I just wanna be upfront. And so that's a conversation I'm already kind of like drafting and preparing in my head for. And with my husband's family, I definitely felt really uncomfortable telling them because I didn't want them to feel like I was crazy. And that's, you know, my husband's been like, you know, I come from them and look how understanding I am. And his sister actually is a speech pathologist and her clinic says that they address misophonia. And so I'm like, you know, if anyone is a safe person to share it with, it's probably his sister.

Adeel [61:15]: Oh, okay. That's cool.

Chelsea [61:16]: Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. And so last time his family visited, you know, we had a sound machine out and his mom commenced on the sound machine. And so we had been kind of looking and waiting for an opportunity to say something about it. And so I did take that moment to share a little bit more about why I had the sound machine. I didn't go into depth about it, but I did say, you know, I have this neurological disorder that is really hard. And so we have sound machines throughout the house to help me cope. And, you know, she responded fine to that. So I think it's just finding ways where I can be a little bit more vulnerable, especially now that I have the tools to know how to communicate it. Before, I feel like I just didn't really know how. And so I would either laugh it off and pretend it wasn't a big deal, which gave other people the impression it wasn't a big deal, or I didn't describe it in a way that made sense. And so I think now that I have better language of how to describe it, that it's a know literal neurological disorder and there's you know not a lot of treatment for it i just think having that verbiage is going to be easier to have these conversations and so it is definitely something that i'm constantly thinking about my head of how to have those conversations and it be productive um but something i'm still definitely working on practicing what i preach

Adeel [62:31]: I'd love to maybe see some of your notes on that. Cause I, I still need to do that with some family members as well. Despite having this podcast for almost three years. Um, uh, it doesn't, it doesn't interesting things that earlier about how, um, uh, you, you sometimes laugh it off and, you know, laughter is a good medicine for misophonia, but you're right. There's a double-edged sword. If we kind of like make, make a joke about it too much, other people get the impression that it's not serious. So, um, and I never thought about it that way. Um, Well, Chelsea, this is, yeah, this is super enlightening episode. Oh, interview, I mean, or just chat. I try not to make it sound too formal, but is there anything else you want to share that you have scribbled down in your notes or has come to mind?

Chelsea [63:15]: Yeah, I mean, I think I've pretty much hit everything that I thought would be helpful to talk about. But I guess one thing is a takeaway for other people. I think finding community and support helps tremendously. Obviously, it's not going to get rid of your triggers. It's not going to change your situation necessarily. But I think our ability to cope and to find meaning and hope can only happen when we are surrounded by supportive people, which is really hard to find in our realm. But I have found Facebook groups and this podcast, so many other things that have been so helpful. I don't know if you would frame it this way, but I feel like you've made sense out of your suffering by helping other people through the podcast. And so one way that's helped me is by writing about it and talking about it. And so I think that is healing in itself when you have a community of people. So I just think finding people, whether it's virtually, whether it's through a podcast or a Facebook group, whatever it is, that's been something that's been so helpful and healing to me. So I don't know if this would be helpful. I know people come from so many different backgrounds, but I just started a separate blog from my website that is for people suffering with misophonia, chronic illness, disability, and it's nothing super special. It's just my kind of weekly takeaways, whether it's something I read that I found really helpful, some song I listen to, a new coping skill that I learned that's helping me. So I do have a separate kind of personal blog for that as well. But I'm just trying to hopefully, like you are doing, gather a bunch of people and resources and speak into it so they don't feel so alone.

Adeel [65:03]: Yeah, I'll definitely link to that. And that reminds me, I want to see this Twitter account that you've heard so much about.

Chelsea [65:11]: It's taken down.

Adeel [65:14]: maybe i'll try to find it on the way back machine or uh but anyways uh no that's it's super i mean yeah i totally agree 110 with with everything you said um it's important to connect and find community facebook's great for that sometimes it gets a little bit noisy in some of those big groups but if you can if you can connect with uh people on a deeper level that's kind of yeah you're right i mean that's kind of why i started this is to is to take it beyond um take our kind of sharing beyond you know 140 characters or or whatever and just um go a little deeper because we have um surprising amount of things in common um not to mention all the guilt and shame like it was it was surprising despite having known about misophonia before the starting this like how similar we were we all are kind of on a deep level because of you know the history of uh the acceptance and awareness of this condition um no yeah great um great things you just shared with us. I will link to all those things in the show notes. And yeah, just say thank you. This is a really interesting episode that I know is going to help a lot of people.

Chelsea [66:20]: Yeah. Well, thank you again for asking the questions and opening this up for people. I know that I've gained a lot of encouragement and hope and support if you're listening to other people's stories. So I appreciate you taking the time to interview people and edit. And I know it takes probably a lot of time and energy. So I think you're using your resources to bring people encouragement too.

Adeel [66:39]: Thank you again, Chelsea. Really enjoyed that. I've got links to where you can reach Chelsea in the show notes. And I'll also tag her on Instagram. If you liked this episode, don't forget to leave a quick review or just hit the five stars wherever you listen to this podcast. You can hit me up by email at hellomissiphoneypodcast.com or go to the website, missiphoneypodcast.com. It's even easier to send a message on Instagram at missiphoneypodcast. Support the show by visiting the Patreon at patreon.com slash missiphoneypodcast. Theme music, as always, is by Moby. And until next week, wishing you peace and quiet.

Unknown Speaker [67:23]: Thank you.