S6E8 - Marcelo
Marcelo is a composer of avant-garde music who now lives in Germany. We talk about his origin story against the backdrop of turmoil in his home country of Chile, and in his own home. Being triggered, sometimes on purpose, by his own mother, being punished for his condition in Catholic school. And we spend a lot of time ruminating on expressing misophonia through art. He has even weaved some of his triggers into the music he writes.
Marcelo's YouTube Channel
Disclaimer: These are machine-generated transcripts and so are not completely accurate. However they will be manually updated over time until they are.
[00:00:00] Adeel: Marcelo welcome to the podcast. It's good to have you here. Thank you.
[00:00:03] Marcelo: Thank you.
[00:00:04] Adeel: Glad to be here. Yeah. Yeah. No. So do you wanna first, tell folks where you're located and then what you do? . Sure. I
[00:00:11] Marcelo: live in Germany in southwest Germany.
But I'm originally from Chile and I live for 22 years in California as well.
[00:00:19] Adeel: Oh, you did? When did you live in California?
[00:00:21] Marcelo: What years? From 1997 until 2019. Oh, wow. It's so where
[00:00:25] Adeel: in California?
[00:00:29] Marcelo: mostly in the Los Angeles area. Okay. Then I moved to towards Ventura County and ended up in San Diego before I moved to
[00:00:36] Adeel: Germany.
Okay. So very southern. Yeah, I was in San Francisco, yeah. From 2001 to 2016, so Oh, nice. Probably I used to drive down to LA once in a while, so I, we probably did not cross paths. But you never in the same general area? Yes. Cool. What Yeah. Do you want Ken tell, what do you do out there in.
[00:00:54] Marcelo: Sure. I work as a musician here as a freelancer musician. I'm mainly a composer and I also play guitar and teach guitar. But composition is the bulk of
[00:01:05] Adeel: what I do. Amazing. Yeah, I think we, we obviously, we talked over email a little bit over, over the summer. Uhhuh . Yeah. Initially, actually, now, Jo Memory, did you reach out to me by email?
About the podcast? I'm curious. Yeah. How did you learn about the
[00:01:17] Marcelo: podcast? What I was thinking about this morning, how did it happen? I think I was doing research about misophonia in your podcast back there somewhere. So I joined and then I'm gonna go, man, it would be nice to be able to share my experience.
Yeah. think I feel the questionnaire or so.
[00:01:34] Adeel: Yeah, no, that's, yeah. Yeah. No, I'm just curious curious because we did have a short email conversation. Yes. Cause I, I'm also I don't do music for a living, but I'm, very much into music and writing music. And so it's always good to hear from other musicians.
So yeah. Do you want to maybe talk about what's what's a misophonia situation for you now? You, it sounds like. Doing some research on me. So is there did something prompt that did, are things getting bad?
[00:01:58] Marcelo: Good question. So I feel sometimes like it's getting worse as I age.
, the first time I was aware that sounds bother me. I was nine years old and I'm now 45. But I've been doing a lot of research because I am really interested on how I can use this to compose. And I noticed that when I use some of the sounds that trigger me, they don't trigger me when they're in this context.
So I found that very interesting. And then I learned that there was this condition named Misophonia and Akok, and I start doing more research about it.
[00:02:31] Adeel: Oh, this is really interesting. So you, before you even knew that Misson, you had a term, you obviously knew that you were bothered by sounds, but then as you were composing, you started to weave trigger sounds into your.
and that helped you cope. Yes. Or did it help you cope or did it just is it that you noticed that you weren't the same sounds were not triggering you in the context of a work?
[00:02:53] Marcelo: Good question, man. So the first work that I wrote using this sounds. Was in 2012 and I was really scared to listen to the recording.
I was there for the performance . Yeah. I was like, I do not want to listen to the recording. And then one day I had to listen to it like given I was given a presentation at G C S D when I was doing my doctorate and I had to talk about it in a man, this is going to be painful and I noticed that it bothered me, but it did not.
Yeah. I didn't have any physical reactions or there wasn't any anger or I decided to run away from the room. So a li bulb went off there and go, okay, this has, there has to be something there. A difference between when one hears the sound versus when one is creating the sound.
[00:03:43] Adeel: Yeah. So can I ask
[00:03:45] Marcelo: Yeah.
[00:03:46] Adeel: So go for it. Yeah, no, I'm, can I ask a little bit about the piece and the sounds obviously not without making the sounds, but I'm just curious kind of what was it, what kind of music was the piece? Was it like a, some, John Cage walking on ice, we experimental thing?
Or was it more traditional but with some sounds. No,
[00:04:03] Marcelo: I definitely work in the more experimental angar type of yeah. World. And this piece was a dual for cello and voice. And the text I was using was this was a fragment of our poem and all the parts I have, the letters I made that really.
Which is a sound in interior list. When people speak, they tend to elongate the S at the end, and that was one of my trigger sounds. So I put that there and I combine it with sounds from the tele that were similar.
[00:04:37] Adeel: Beautiful. we listen to this somewhere or is it on YouTube or Spotify or something?
Or was it just for that?
[00:04:42] Marcelo: Absolutely. It's on YouTube. I can send you the link at some point. Yeah. I think I
[00:04:45] Adeel: subscribe to you, but I'll, I will specifically look for this. Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny because the last Robert, literally the last the current episode that's up right now at the time of recording, it's, yeah, it's amazing. His only trigger sound was the SS that his mom would make, and it turned out to basically destroy all the relationships in his life. , it's just amazing that one little thing. Oh my God's. It's a coincidence that it's an S sound, just like you just mentioned. I don't wanna, I'm not laughing, but it's just, sure. Ra Robert would find it interesting as well. Interesting.
[00:05:12] Marcelo: No but it's sorry. It is interesting that you mentioning this about not laughing because for all of us who have been dealing with this for such a long time, it's been a very painful experience. But now knowing there is research about it and there is an actual name and that we know that's going on, it's oh my God.
Like I do wanna laugh. It's like you're
[00:05:30] Adeel: paying. Yeah, laughter is a good co coping mechanism that comes up a lot. It is absolutely part of the benefits of having this community where we can talk to each other about stuff that we never dare talk to anybody else about. Is therapeutic and absurd in a way, It is.
So interesting. Okay, cool. And how did that go over then that piece when you obviously you talked about like how it you noticed that it. Annoyed but not trigger you in the same way. Did anybody how was the reaction in the audience? Did somebody stand up and say, oh, miss Faia or were they, did nobody notice the sounds or just, I'm just curious how
[00:06:06] Marcelo: that went over.
No, nobody noticed it. Which is or if they were very quiet about it. Yeah. Which is the other thing with misophonia, right? Like we think we're. The cool thing though is that I was able to talk to the performers afterwards and explain to them what was going on and around this time. So I wrote a piece on my first year of the doctorate, and it was premier on the second year and the time this flus had come to U C S D from Belgium.
And she heard the conversation and we started working together and we wrote another piece also using trigger sounds that,
[00:06:39] Adeel: oh, So was she particularly interested in the Misophonia Connect or by that point you didn't know what misophonia was, right? Or?
[00:06:46] Marcelo: I had no idea what misophonia was. I thought was the only person in the world that that was suffering with this, but it really spark her. She got interested into it and we ended up doing a work for flute and
[00:06:57] Adeel: text. Okay. Wow. Is that on your YouTube as well?
[00:07:00] Marcelo: That's also on the YouTube. Okay. So the one is called. Oh, thank you, . Yeah, it's a
[00:07:11] Adeel: putting on YouTube today. Yeah. Cool.
[00:07:13] Marcelo: Okay.
Yeah, I'll send you the links.
[00:07:15] Adeel: Sorry. Interesting. Okay. And then I guess then after have you been, have you been doing more I don't know, more in kind of experiments with misophonia in your works or?
[00:07:27] Marcelo: Absolutely. It was recently that I found out that Misho was in a psychological condition, which is what I thought it was for.
For a long time. I just recently discovered, and this is about the time that I found your podcast. Yeah. That is a neurological condition. So there is something in the wiring. And some of my reactions when I get triggered since I was a little boy was either to slap my elbows or my knees or wrap my ears and.
for a long time I realized that when I compose music, I have to be moving. , I cannot sit still and write. So when I discover that I put two and two together and corner, maybe there is a link between movement that miss my misophonia reactions and the way that I work. So I am really interested on start experimenting with with movement, specifically the reactions that I had to these trigger.
[00:08:15] Adeel: Interesting. So when you are , when you're composing, you're moving, does that mean that you're pacing around the room or you're pro you're playing and it's being notated separately. I'm just curious like how the movement connection with your composing activity.
[00:08:28] Marcelo: So I am not basing around, but I. , let's say when you go dancing and you're reacting to rhythm I'm reacting to the sounds that I'm hearing. So it's very weird not having a camera to explain, but a lot of movements with my arms, with my legs. Yeah. Stomping the rubbing of the ears come back.
Yeah. So it's not pretty to Luka, let's put it that way. But it's highly effective when it comes to put all these sounds and
[00:08:54] Adeel: rhythms. Gotcha. Okay. No that's really interesting. And and when you're do you maybe let's go back to do you feel like your, your choice of composing as a kind of, as a career, did it have anything to do maybe with your relationship with sound and triggers early on?
Wanting to create sound as a reaction Maybe we can go back and talk about like, how bad was it when you were a child? Like how, how tortured were you by sounds.
[00:09:22] Marcelo: Sure. Let me ask you the first question. Yeah, sorry, first. No, no worries. But it's gonna be interesting that you asked her because I am the only musician in my family.
, I'm not talking about just my immediate family, but my family in general, which on my father's side is quite large. I am the only decision. So I think JS has gotta be a relationship between how I process sounds and my desire to manipulate them. Especially in the Ivan garde context. I have played those in rock band and heavy metal band.
Yeah. But my bread and butter is contemporary. About going back, like I said at the beginning, I started noticing this when I was about nine years old and just like with the other gentleman you were talking about it began with my mother and when I was nine years old, a lot of kind of traumatic events happen in my life.
My uncles with my cousins who were some of my best friend moved out of Chile to. to live there. Then the following month my grandmother passed away. Then my dad left on Christmas. It was like a Ooh, yeah, a lot for a nine year old kid to go through. And that's when everything started. And first I started to noticing the way that my mom would whistle, which it a very pleasant whistle.
It was like between the team. I don't even know how to explain it, but just thinking about it I can feel it on my back, yeah. And my reaction I remember was to run away. The only place I could go was in my room, but then couple of months after my mom realized what was happening, and she would come in the room and close the door and start doing the noise even more.
[00:11:00] Adeel: Knowing that it's knowing that it bothers you.
[00:11:03] Marcelo: Yeah, because in her mind was me just being upset. I'm trying not to curse, but . Yeah, just that's okay. Just trying to be abr about it. So yeah, whenever she would do, sounds like the s the whistling, the way she would sing or other sounds that would trigger me.
She would then purposefully do even more. She had a whole other issues going on with her too, that never got, . That was just the situation in my country at the time, right? Like people did not get treated for stuff like this. And of course nobody knew about Misho talking about mid eighties.
So it was quite hard. Things started happening at school with teachers. I went to Catholic school. So there was a whole layer Exactly, yeah. A whole layer of punishment. If you did not sit still and like when the teachers were talking, I needed to move or react, I would get kicked out of the. Wow. Yeah,
[00:11:56] Adeel: no, I haven't, you might be one of the first people who have actually Yeah.
Who've you talked about their Yeah. Catholic school experience and Yeah. I didn't even think about that. That you could, yeah. If you don't sit still, you could, oh man. You could just get punished and taken out. We think about Catholics in terms of their their. Propensity towards guilt.
And I thought that we were gonna talk about like guilt the shame and guilt, which I'm sure yes, you probably experienced as well, but I didn't really get getting kicked outta class for reacting to mis onnia. That's horrible. And obviously just does not help the trauma that you were complex trauma you were facing early on.
[00:12:28] Marcelo: Not at all. And what made it worse is oh, good aside the fact that we had to use uniform and all that stuff and yeah, being very kind. We were all. and the mentality in Chile, a very istic country was like, okay, boys do not suffer from trauma. You don't cry, you don't complain about anything. Yeah.
Yeah. You need to be tough. And for me it was horrible. It was really
[00:12:50] Adeel: bad. Yeah. Wow. Okay. And how did, wow and were you getting teased also, but obviously your the Catholic teachers were not helping did other. Notice your reactions. Obviously when you're getting kicked outta class, somebody's noticing and are they few of my, is there any kind of bullying or
[00:13:11] Marcelo: not bullying from my classmates.
Of course there was bullying going on, but not when it came to that. Some of my friends I went to the same school from kindergarten until I graduated on my senior year, so 13 years. And some of my friends got to know me very well over the years. towards the last two years of school, I was able to talk to them about them.
And back then I still thought that was, it was just me and there was something wrong with me. Yeah. And they helped me a lot. It was a very painful period. A lot of things combined. And, sorry if I get sidetracked here a little bit. No. So I've had severe depression too, since I was a very young.
Yeah. And bipolar number two, which is it doesn't come with the typical menu where you going to shop in space and stuff like that. Yeah. But it's hyperactivity. So all that combined I felt just like a, for lack of a better expression, such like a penalty. But when I was growing up and talking to my friends about it, it helped quite a lot.
So of that I'm very grateful.
[00:14:14] Adeel: Yeah. Okay. So you felt , you are just a burden and a kind of a pain in the ass to people around. Exactly. Because that's, sounds like that's what, how they were treating you, treating you like you were less, or not. Exactly.
[00:14:27] Marcelo: Okay. When he came to me, Sonia, the bullying came from the teachers, like really shaming in front of everybody. Yes. Wow. Okay. But in Catholic school though, .
[00:14:35] Adeel: That's the oh, sorry. I, yeah, that's the first rule is how can we shame you? Exactly. And so that's okay. Yeah. So you're, you like later in school, yeah.
Towards the end of high school. Maybe you found some friends that you could talk to. And that's, so what are some of the things either just talking to them helped or did they help kind. I don't know. Provide support in any way or just protect you.
[00:14:57] Marcelo: It helped to have an outlet.
Yeah. And to have people who genuinely listen. , sometimes we will go and drink a beer and talk about it. There was no drinking, eating chili at the time, so we would do stuff like that. Yeah. And I was able to talk and cry it out really. And so yeah, having these guys that were able to just listen and put their hands on my shoulder and just be honest.
All I needed. Yeah,
[00:15:20] Adeel: exactly. At that point, how was your, how was the home life? Was your mom still behaved the same way? Sounds like she had her own issues. Yeah,
[00:15:28] Marcelo: and I came from a family of five and I'm the youngest. My older two sister had left at that time, also left the country, not just left home.
So it was just my mom, myself, and my little nephew. At some point when I was around 15, my uncle with whom I was very close had cancer and he spent the last six months of his life at my home. Yeah. So in a way, I had to be a support for my mother that was watching her brother die. My little nephew didn't have her mom with him or his dad.
His dad was out of the picture, so I became like a father figure for him as he would later would tell me. So it was a lot of pressure and having the depression on top of it and all the other issues, it wasn't easy. That's, so
[00:16:13] Adeel: That's, you got really dark let's put it that way.
Yeah. Yeah. So it's like a lot. So I guess how did you, what happened next then? Did you go off to college? Were you still you must, you made some kind of a career move or a career beginning at that point?
[00:16:25] Marcelo: Yeah, so my plan was as soon as I could out of high school, I'm going to find a way to get out of Tiller.
[00:16:32] Adeel: So it sounds like a common theme with a lot of your family and other people in your family or other people around you,
[00:16:39] Marcelo: Yes. My, my dad was in the Navy, so that, that kind of filled it too since that early age. So when I was a team, my sisters, I moved to Israel to work there and the mother and nephew, she wanted to be her son.
So my mom took my nephew to Israel and I tag along. Originally the idea was to go for three, And I ended up staying for two and a half years. And right after that I moved to the states. So I left here in 1995 and I didn't go back to B Zealand until 2007. I went for a couple of weeks. Yeah.
[00:17:09] Adeel: Wow. Okay.
Okay. And and then when you so you went to, okay, so let me back up here. You went to, is there, so what was, did you find when you start to move to other countries? Was, did anything about your misophonia change? A lot of people I've talked. When they leave school, when they leave the house for the first time there's sometimes like a a period when it's a little bit better.
Maybe it's because their things are new and they're have a little bit more control over their lives. Didn't ever get better briefly?
[00:17:36] Marcelo: Yeah. So when I moved to Israel, it was interesting because he was a cultural explosion happening in front of my eyes. There were people from countries that I had never heard before.
And all these different languages happening at once. A, my, my brain was like trying to make sense of everything. Yeah. And I think the misophonia took a back seat, at least for the first year. After a while after I start settling and getting used to the, and it start coming back again.
Yeah. Yeah. But at first he was yeah, man, let me enjoy
[00:18:07] Adeel: this . Yeah. Yeah. And and what were some of your, coping methods, actually, I guess throughout your, for, since childhood, was it avoidance, getting out of the situation? Were you starting to get headphones going on more listening to more music?
[00:18:21] Marcelo: Running away was method number one. And I locking myself in my room. Yeah. When I was 11, or no, I was 10 years old and my my, my cousining, my uncles that I told you had moved to England, they came back and my cousin, the male casting that I had, they were also twos and one boy, he came with a collection of bin of heavy metal music and I have never listened to heavy metal in.
and that helped me a lot, not only with Msho, but with anger issues and my depression, . So it, it wasn't just a desire of making music. Music also played an important role in, in holding to my sanity. And literally I was some point saving my life.
[00:19:03] Adeel: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Yeah, I was gonna ask, when you ran away and ran to your room, what did you do?
It sounds like the music was an. Yeah.
[00:19:11] Marcelo: Blasted full volume. Closed all the windows. Closed the door, .
[00:19:16] Adeel: Wow. Okay. Inter interesting. And then at this point, how you decided that composer was the career for you?
[00:19:22] Marcelo: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it was pretty clear that I wanted to be a musician. I didn't know I wanted to be a composer.
I knew I wanted to be in a heavy metal band and tour the world and yeah. Lose my hearing by study.
[00:19:33] Adeel: Yeah. So did that. Oh, interesting. So that was like so hear hearing damage was that something you thought about maybe as even like a, Hey, if I'm getting triggered by these sounds like why do I necessarily need to be able to.
[00:19:46] Marcelo: man, interesting question. I don't know if this happened to all the misophonia, Uhhuh, sufferers out there, but it also bothers me when I make the sounds.
[00:19:56] Adeel: Ah, okay. Okay. That's for example, that's pretty rough. Yes. Yeah.
[00:20:00] Marcelo: Yeah. So using my hearing, you can still hear the sounds in your brain, so it Oh yeah.
It wouldn't help that much. And at G C S D when I had to teach courses, As you can tell, I have a very thick accent and I have to work really hard on that so students could understand me and pronunciate well, and pronunciate the essence at the end of words. And oh my gosh, it, it was hard drinking water.
If I drink water and the gulping sounds is too loud. Yeah. I in infuriates
[00:20:31] Adeel: me. Even your own drinking? Yeah, even my own drinking. Wow. Okay. Yeah, you're right. Losing your hearing if not that I condone it. But if you were to Yeah. If you were to lose that that, that wouldn't help I don't think in those situations.
Yeah. Interesting. That's, that, that's, it's amazing that this even comes, becomes part of your thought process. That's what this condition does to people. Actually okay. Interesting. So how did. Yeah. Okay. I was asking something earlier that we got into self triggering. Yeah.
But anyways let's, maybe let's move on to yeah. So as you were, well as you, let's, I don't know, let's talk about it. As you were a teacher you obviously you had to be in a room full of a lot of other people would, didn't. How was that for Mr. Funy being a teacher? You're you can control the situation to some point, but you just have a lot of younger people around who are I think more and more people are eating in class these days.
Would, did that environment start to be a trigger?
[00:21:24] Marcelo: Oh my God, yes. Yes. Yeah. I had kids coming with Sandwich one time and I said, look I don't mind you guys eating, but we are in a music room with. With delicate equipment. So if you go, I eat, try not to eat something too messy. So this key next, God bless his heart, next classic comes with a baggo, potato chips
Okay. And I just look at the potato chips and I started sweating. Yeah. What help me there is can be a very goofy person, , I will try to like keep the class light as much as possible, and that would, , yeah. Cope with everything. And then another thing that I started doing later in my program, I made my PhD.
So I was there for seven years. So Four years into it, I decided that once a quarter we were in, in quarter system there, I would spend five minutes talking about not only SHO but mental conditions. Wow. And making sure the kids knew that I had those problems, that I had been hospitalized at some point.
That, and surprisingly, I got a lot of kids to open up and they received it very well. So having a honest conversation about what was going on rather than me hiding and saying I'm weird, made things much easier. And then some kids who will not, will stopping bring their food to my class or they would bring food to ch to share with me.
So it became a really positive. In the last four years or three years of life of my tenure there. Yeah. That's just been able to
[00:22:57] Adeel: talk. Yeah. That's great. It has a lot of benefits. That's that's that's a really Yeah. Positive thing to come out of this is to the more we open about it, cuz no one wants to talk about who doesn't have this phone.
Yes. But if, I think it's on us to be a positive force. And this is, that's a great way to. Because people, even kids who don't necessarily have misophonia, if you're expanding it to talk about mental health in general, that's a great thing.
[00:23:17] Marcelo: It's actually interesting because misophonia is such a new concept and I was reading that it was quoted, although the term was first coin in yearly two thousands, but Yep.
The first time I heard about it was through . He was talking about it on the morning show that she had, and I was like, oh my God. Like I have that. And I've been talking to friends recently who say, yeah, I have this thing called me . And they go oh, what is that? And I start explaining and they go oh my God, I have the same thing.
So I asked them, does do the noises bother you or do you get triggered? But no man, like I get triggered and it's crazy. I was recently working with these two performers in live here in Germany and start talking about it. And one of them, got like really like interesting oh my God, since I was little, I was about nine years old too, and I were like, oh my God.
Yeah it's more common than you
[00:24:08] Adeel: think. It's more common than you think and because like you said, it's so new. A lot of people like you were like, I was, are dealing with it in silence still, and Yeah, we need to reach out to these people. And it's interesting that you asked some people like, are you just bothered by it or are you like or does it send you in a arrange?
Because that is a fair question. A lot of people don't wanna judge people, but there are people who cons people consider it people who don't have it. Just think that we just have a pet peeve when it's very different. Exactly. Say that. And and that's something.
Yeah it's interesting to watch the trajectory of awareness because yeah, a lot of people don't know about it. And the ones, and a lot of people just call it a pet peeve. So there's , it's, and then that's where the shaming continues and whatnot. And so it just keeps people from not wanting to talk about it.
Even more . And so we need to break that cycle. And things like what you did in class are very helpful because they you opened up and will reach other people. Interesting. Okay. Oh, go ahead. She, could I ask what was the class you were teaching at?
What was your PhD about?
[00:25:06] Marcelo: My PhD was in music composition and Interesting. So I had to take different classes related to music. I did teach composition sometimes, mostly like teaching assistant, so we would divide the courses in small groups. And one of my favorite courses was the history of the beat.
Yeah, you can talk about the history and the music. Then I got to do hiphop also. So it was pretty interesting. And then towards the end, I look for a job in the linguistics department. Cause they pay better than the music department. Yeah. And I ended up teaching
[00:25:39] Adeel: Spanish. Oh, okay. And any of those departments, did you did you ever bring up, you brought it up with the kids, the students?
I should. , did you bring it up with your bosses? Did you ever get any kind of accommodations where you were teaching?
[00:25:52] Marcelo: No. There, there were no accommodations for misophonia, unfortunately.
[00:25:57] Adeel: And you asked, but they just didn't give it to you or you were, you just, you could tell I
[00:26:02] Marcelo: did mention it once.
Yeah. And nothing came out . Yeah. It's it's not in the list. Yeah. In the conditions here. , but I did talk I had two how do you call them mentors in the program. So when you go there on your second year, you have to choose somebody that you're gonna work with. So one of my mentors, I explained to her what was happening, and then she actually is the one who encouraged me to look more into my relation of movement and composing and start perhaps choreographing these movements and orchestrating them with.
with the sounds that will trigger me and turn something ugly into something positive.
[00:26:42] Adeel: Yes. Beautiful. Yeah. So that's, yeah, actually very interesting to me because of a project that I think I mentioned that I'm working on, but I was gonna ask, when you talked earlier and you were talking about the movement stuff of Yeah.
I was gonna ask if you ever thought about choreographing it or making this maybe part. Or writing for some kind of theatrical or dance piece that would be interesting maybe to to do like a modern a modern interpretive kind of dance piece. Somehow incorporating Misson in some way.
[00:27:11] Marcelo: I love theater and I love dance, so that's definitely on the sides. The, yeah. The girl that I told you that I'm working with here in Germany in Labi, who also has misophonia, that's what we're working. And actually the piece that we're working on, it has to do with aphasia, which is either I've heard that term aphasia is you have these two areas on the brain, the broadcast areas and ver areas, and they control speech, broadcast controlled speech generation and vers control speech processing.
So I am not an expert on this, but people who have brokers a. They can think and they know what they want to say, but they cannot say it.
[00:27:52] Adeel: Okay. Yes. Yes. That's why it sounds familiar, because, there's a, Bruce Willis got
[00:27:56] Marcelo: diagnosed with, it's not too long ago.
[00:27:58] Adeel: Way. Yes. No. Yes. There, there's a there's a a child.
I know that we were, oh God. If he has it, but okay. , that's why it sounds familiar. Oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah, please. Yeah. So you're. Y you and her are thinking about using this or using this as a theme in a piece. So
[00:28:14] Marcelo: it's two performers that I'm working with and one of them is the broker aphasia patient, and the other one is the vernik.
In Vernik, they're fluent. The thing is, it just don't make any sense. And e even in the thought process.
[00:28:29] Adeel: Wow. So they say stuff, it's almost like speaking in. Then it's just not comprehensible,
[00:28:34] Marcelo: I'm looking something that I can create here in my room. I'm actually gonna create something that I have written here.
So I have a fragment that I've wrote here, but imagine leaving data for days and suddenly being flashed with an intense. , these people would say something like, imagine light. Hello, morning, afternoon. Something like that. Okay. It's just like they can read it, but or they can say whatever, but like words itself don't make sense.
[00:29:04] Adeel: They don't have a connection. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. I'd heard about that one. Cool. Okay, go. Going back to, yeah, super interesting , we can talk about that. Yeah. But going back to Misson, so this woman is the one who suggested you explore more the that movement aspect that you were talking about earlier and in relation to ms.
[00:29:20] Marcelo: Yeah. Yes. And I was gonna write a third piece about it, but right at the time, I got really sick and I could not continue with the writing. So I hope I can him soon.
[00:29:30] Adeel: Interesting. And is it writing, writing, music, or writing? Do you also write text as well that kind of goes on, goes with the pieces that you're working on?
Or is it just the music side?
[00:29:39] Marcelo: Yes, I do like to write my own text. Although I have this text from other sources, but I don't know, man. It's like this is misson and weather conditions in general are such a personal. Yeah. But I think it's better when we're able to put out all the kaka that we have in our brains.
Yeah. Out in the art form. So I'm more inclined for this project to write my own text.
[00:29:59] Adeel: Yeah. Yeah. No, super interesting. Yeah. I'd love to see how that how that develops. So I guess, yeah, coming up to the, coming up to the presence, how is do you tell more people about misophonia?
Yeah, I'm just curious. , what's life like for you right now in terms of your friends and what, and whatnot and people around you?
[00:30:14] Marcelo: I've got three different types of reactions and, that's just to put 'em into category. Like I told you, I'm very open about mental health and mental conditions.
Talk about misophonia and some friends have been very receptive. Some of them have discovered that they had, it had. Then you get the group of people who think, okay, like you were saying, okay, it's just effective. You can control it. Yeah. And then the most interesting one happened recently when I was driving family members and they were making a bunch of noises and over accelerating DS at the end, make them very.
And I'm driving and I'm talking about like seven, eight hours driving. So I have nowhere to run away to.
[00:30:58] Adeel: Yeah I'm Their lives are in your hands too, . Yeah, exactly.
[00:31:02] Marcelo: So at some point I ask if they could stop and like a Ringling paper or something like that and I asked if they could stop and say, , but first they needed to stop doing what they were doing.
So the noise continued and at that moment, that was the most intense reaction I have had to the triggers I had to put in an emergency bay area, and I had to get out of the car, and I immediately lost my cool I, I didn't get angry. It was just a very emotional. Yeah. And they felt really bad, obviously.
But like one thing that they keep saying is that they understood what I was going through and that's that's when I say, no, you don't. It's if you say to somebody I have stomach ulcers and they're very painful. And somebody who doesn't have all sorts of say, oh yeah, I understand what?
It's no, you don't. You can sympathize, but unless you're in a person's shoes, you have no. , and that was my most extreme re reaction I thought was gonna get in an accident there for a while. Yeah. Yeah. So when I found that spot to stop I immediately went there and yeah, after in the moment they understood and everything was cool.
But then after a while I think they start taking it really personal, which is how my mother used to take it. Or maybe this is just chasing my own tail. But that's usually when you live with somebody or you interact with people. And you're constantly being triggered by the sounds, it's hard for them not to take it personal, like you are bothered by them versus you being triggered by
[00:32:30] Adeel: sounds.
Because I think, yeah, to an outsider, it just seems like they don't know what's going on in the brain of your brain. Exactly. So it's, it seems being highly annoyed by Yes. You. And so how do you explain that? Because we our brains, when we're triggered, the last thing we want to.
explain anything. We just wanna run away . Exactly. And then when we're not being triggered, the last thing we wanna do is think about this, about . And so it's what is a good time and how is Yeah. How do you explain it exactly.
[00:32:59] Marcelo: There's normally a good time and put it even June now instead of the email said you were telling me and how you.
Want to do all this artwork and this music and theater piece. Yeah. With stories of people and your own story as well. I think that's a great way of putting it out there. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're not lecturing people about it. You're just making artwork. Something that people can actually enjoy in being formal at the same time.
[00:33:23] Adeel: And when happen, write Yeah.
[00:33:25] Marcelo: Sorry. Yeah. No, no worries. And you having this podcast too, it's fantastic. As a matter of fact, right at the time that I. Thinking do short clips of me talking about my daily life with Misho. I don't have an intention of becoming a duty or anything, but do short clips and saying, okay, this is what misho is.
This is how it affects me. These are some of my triggers. This is how I react. Do you know somebody who reacts, annoy to noise that you're making? Maybe they have misophonia. This is what you could do. And I found this gentleman, and I cannot remember his name now, he's said doctor in Cambridge.
Who, he's the one who say, okay, don't say that you are bothered by some, say that you're triggered by them because there's a huge difference. Everybody can get bothered by something. Not everybody gets triggered by something. When I found out that misophonia was a neurological condition, then talking to one of my friends, I was saying it's the.
It's, it is not psychological, so there's nothing I can do about it. There is an actual wire and , it's funny because like in, in one way, okay, there is nothing I can do about it. But at the same time I go oh man that's freaking great. Cause now I know what's going on and it's part of who I am.
So I think I'm starting to finally make peace with the. and say I've been using it for art and now I'm able to explain it a little bit more. It's actually 20 to a positive.
[00:34:47] Adeel: Yeah, no, that's great to be, to use it as part of our work and and yeah, like you said, I think it's a fascinating topic to explore, not just too for awareness, but there is there's so many other dimensions like how it affects your, your family life, your how it.
Was impacted by childhood experiences, how there are comorbid conditions like you have yourself , so like a there's a misophonia, but then there's also other layers of dimensions that I think make it universal. So it's and honestly just sometimes just wanting to run away from things that are bothering you.
That's kind a universal, I think con, continual reaction. To. Yes. And yeah, I think many pe many different pieces of artwork, I think will come out of this experience. And yeah. A lot of the stories I've heard on the show, in fact, some of the ones that you just mentioned are just sound like scenes from a movie or a theater piece.
Totally. So that's what has what it is and what is inspiring me. Yeah. And I guess, oh yeah, may maybe my another question is, have you I know you've, it sounds like you've sought out help for some other conditions. Have you talked to any doctors or any professionals about misophonia and tried to I or tried to get it looked at?
[00:35:52] Marcelo: So while I was at university, I was with psychological and psychiatric treat. and I talked to both of 'em, both of the doctors, and they were very open actually to listen to my experience. And perhaps from, because it's their field, they were genuinely curious about finding about something new.
Yeah. My psychiatrist in particular he encouraged me to do little research about the brain and. to try to understand what was going on. And at that point I thought it was a psychological condition, but like through this research I got into aphasia and how different parts of the brain work together.
And now that I found out that it's a neurological condition it's leading me, okay, I wanna do more. And there are institutions here in Germany who focus specifically on brain and music and how the two work together. Not just in the creative process, but how certain conditions affect creativity.
So I'm trying to get a food on that door and see Yeah. What happens and what I can take it. I don't know if I answered your question. I think I went on a tangent there.
[00:36:58] Adeel: No yeah, no, I was just curious if you talked to doctors, like psychiatrist right. Or sounds like you had, did you ever go back to that psychiatrist and say, yeah, this is what I learned, or
Did he just want you to go learn about yourself and go away?
[00:37:10] Marcelo: No. Was the end of it. He was pretty nice. So toward my graduation we had a very nice talk. We both the psychiatrists and the psychologist. Yeah. And I was very grateful for their help and I could tell they were grateful too, that I introduced him to something new and they perhaps can help some other that have misophonia or they do not know that they have misophonia and they can point them in that direction.
. I need to contact them. Perhaps it would be a good idea to share the research that I found. Recently coming from the University of Cambridge, they have a a research group dedicated to misophonia, so I'm, I'll could probably share that with him. But yeah, I'm pretty grateful for the health for.
[00:37:51] Adeel: Yeah. No, that's great. Yeah, there's a lot of research seems to be happening in the UK at Newcastle and Oxford. Sounds like Cambridge as well. I don't know. There's a group in Amsterdam as well, so there seems to be a lot of stuff happening in Europe, so I think you're in the right place.
How's life with your family now, are they still acting the same way, your siblings and your parents, or has there been any movement.
[00:38:16] Marcelo: I don't really talk to them.
[00:38:19] Adeel: Okay. I was gonna ask you like, how is Oh, okay. Do or do you talk to them at all about anything? I was gonna ask about like, how's your relationship with them in general too?
[00:38:26] Marcelo: I made an effort to distance myself from my family to be honest. Yeah. So I live now in Germany. I have one sister that lives in Arizona. My father lives in Chile, and my old sister lives. Yeah, I keep in touch of course, but not on a regular basis. No. We're on the phone all the time.
To be honest, I keep in touch mostly with my father's and his new family. He went through hell and now he's 90 years old. His, like this little kid that finally he's reclaiming his childhood. So it's a really good relationship we have. Yeah. But the man slurs competing for a gold medal.
Yeah. I've never heard somebody slur bread dried pieces of bread, and I have talked to him about it and he kinda sees his point. He goes okay, man, yeah, I see what's going on, but I'm not gonna stop slur. This is who I am,
[00:39:15] Adeel: man. All right, so this is,
[00:39:18] Marcelo: yeah. , but there is this acceptance. I accept him for who he is.
He has accepted me with my condition, and we have found a common ground. And yeah I think that's the thing too. People like us, people who Miss soho, we want to run away and stuff like that, but at some point we also have to compromise. And that's very hard when you have no control of your reactions.
So it's either you are a loner a hundred percent of the time. or do you know that, okay, I'm gonna get fever I'm gonna get exposed to some of these noises and mentally prepare and knowing that if it's getting to a point that it's not safe, that you can always walk away. And that's like the understanding of we have with my dad.
So like whenever I have visited him Chile and he's eating, I know that it's okay for me to get up and walk out of the room, that he's not gonna get his feelings hurt. Now. A moment ago I was talking about how easy is. People on the other side to ticket, personally finding somebody that can meet you halfway, it is fantastic.
It's a huge relief.
[00:40:19] Adeel: No, that's, yeah it's definitely a multi-pronged approach and yeah. Mentally preparing yourself, I think, is it ends up being basically the corrects of a lot of what therapists will talk about is changing maybe your thought process a little bit, just.
Mentally prepare yourself for situations or changing your thinking about the sounds. Because yeah, it's, there's no cure for this. But then if you can find somebody who could meet you halfway, that is super powerful.
[00:40:44] Marcelo: Interesting though. I have noticed and I've read about it too, If somebody that you don't spend that much time with, so for example, somebody that you know you're gonna only see for half an hour or one hour, maybe twice a year.
The one that make the sounds that they don't trigger me, and for what I read most people as bad as with people that you spend most time with. Family members for example. So while it is a neurological condition, of course there are a lot of psychological elements that come into. So it's not clear, Karen forgot to mention that
[00:41:17] Adeel: earlier.
No, I was gonna say, yeah it is definitely, at least my thinking by completely professional thinking not really professional thinking, but it's I definitely, it definitely feel like there is it's a blend. Cuz you're like, because you're right, for some people there's a specific sound by one person that triggers them.
But for other, but other people won't trigger them if they make the same sound or like you said. If you just see someone randomly it might not trigger you. And maybe it's the, maybe it's the brain assigning a low threat to somebody who's not going to, you're not gonna see again I, I don't what that is or if it's sometimes we think if somebody who we're seeing often who is around us often is making the trigger sound, I think part of the thought process, your, our brain.
Two is they should know better. It's like they're doing it on purpose because , that's kinda how our crazy wiring wants once done. And so I feel like that's probably a factor. So I feel like there's a blend of psychological and more hard hard or heart wiring.
And whether that hiring wiring is something we're born with or something that maybe develops or gets activated with certain. Trauma or chaotic events happen early on. I feel like there is some connection there, at least anecdotally from from the conversations. It seems like there's something there that needs to be explored.
Yeah. Complicated condition for sure.
[00:42:34] Marcelo: Absolutely. The fight or flight, gets triggered. So now that you're mentioning all this, I'm thinking yeah, like for example, in the case of my mom that the reactions came with a punish. Yeah, both psychologically and physical.
Of course, my reaction to her was gonna be greater because it's not only the neur neurological aspect, but there's a strong psychological trigger as well. Whereas with a more friendly person, it's okay, man, the level of thread is not as hard as you say. So we can probably cope with this for an hour if we need to.
[00:43:02] Adeel: Yeah. No, that's true. Yeah. That. Social dynamic definitely plays a factor. Absolutely. Yeah, Marcelo, I, we're, yeah, we're getting a close to the hour here. I'd love, yeah, I'd love to keep talking later about more music stuff that might be not directly Mr.
Point, but is there anything you wanna, any kind of last things you want to share with people who are listening about your journey and things you've.
[00:43:24] Marcelo: Yes, absolutely. So whether, you know you have misophonia or that you've been triggered by and you don't know why.
My biggest advice is don't be ashamed. And there's nothing wrong with you. It's just a condition that you just happen to have and we all have it. And likely by people like la. And other people were building a strong community or where you can feel safe about it. So be open about it. Perhaps embracing it is not the best word because it is hard, but definitely don't be ashamed of it.
And just know that there are people that you can talk about theon with and there'll be like Do, they will respond in a positive way. I was mentioning at the beginning, I had friends growing up that I can talk with. As I've grown up, I've found friends that also have this condition and makes it so much easier to be able to express what's going on in your head.
[00:44:19] Adeel: Yeah, I agree that shame, guilt piece, I think I didn't realize how common and strong it was before I did this podcast, and that's really the yeah, that's also the first lesson I try to. Tell people is to try to just don't, yeah. Don't feel ashamed. We are, we're all, or try not to, cuz we've, I mean we've, but we've all felt that for so long that it's absolutely, it's I feel like it's my first thing I want to help people with is getting over that shame or guilt.
I, we can't cure misophonia, but if we could take that step to try to help people not feel ashamed is goes a long way. Absolutely. It's a good reminder. Yeah, Marcelo, thanks. Thanks again for coming on. The show is really nice to hear your story.
[00:44:57] Marcelo: Thank you so much Alio. Thank you for having this wonderful podcast.
[00:45:01] Adeel: Thank you again, Marcelo. Always love Todd. Always love to talk. To MyPhone who are in the creative arts, especially music. If you like this episode, don't forget to leave a quick review or rating wherever you listen to this podcast. You can hit me up by email at no hello misophonia podcast.com. I'll go to the website misophonia podcast.com.
It's even easier to send me a message on Instagram and miss funny podcast or, and you can follow there or on Facebook with podcast Twitter. Miss Funnies show the music as always is by Moby. Next week and.