Makayla - Exploring Misophonia's Deep Ties to Empathy

Adeel [0:01]: Welcome to the Misophonia Podcast. This is Season 6, Episode 9. My name is Adeel Ahmad, and I have Misophonia. This week I'm talking to Makayla, a Misophone who was also recently diagnosed with autism. This is a long one where we talk about misophonia's place in neurodivergent culture, her experience growing up with miso, and now having the language to express to others finally how she feels, her many coping methods, how she focuses on her nervous system, and we end with some thoughts on the kind of empathic superpowers misophones can demonstrate to the world. This is an episode with lots of quotes and great nuggets that just gets better and better as the interview flows on. As always, let me know what you think. You can reach out by email at helloatmissiphoneypodcast.com or find me on Instagram and Facebook at Missiphoney Podcast. If you can, please go and leave a quick rating or review wherever you listen to this show. It helps drive us higher in the algorithms, which just helps us reach more Missiphones. Thanks for the incredible ongoing support as well of our Patreon supporters. If you feel like learning more there, you can read all about it at patreon.com slash missiphoneypodcast. All right, now here's my conversation with Michaela. Michaela, welcome to the podcast. Good to have you here.

Makayla [1:24]: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited and happy International Day of Peace while we're recording this. Oh, yes. Okay.

Adeel [1:32]: Yeah, recording on the 21st of September. Yeah, that's great. Happy International Peace Day. So, yeah, Michaela, do you want to, I guess, tell people, you know, kind of where you are in the international community and kind of what you do?

Makayla [1:46]: Yeah, so I'm in Washington State in the San Juan Islands. And so we're the most northern islands in the Puget Sound. And I can see Canada from where I live most days. And so that's fun. Love living here. I live in the woods. I am a neighbor to a donkey. And luckily, the donkey does not annoy me. Only the barking dogs. But that's a whole other thing.

Adeel [2:12]: We'll probably get to that at some point.

Makayla [2:15]: Yeah, exactly. But I love living in the woods. It's great. It's a lot of peace. I get to go to a lot of beaches here. And so it is nice living in a more secluded area for those reasons, you know, finding peace and finding our moments of solitude. But it is, you know, it has its quirks for sure. But for what I do, I've been nannying for about 10 years. And so I just work with kids and it's super great. There's some triggers that come up, but I, I handle it.

Adeel [2:51]: Yeah, that's great. Oh, what's the, uh, what's the, so what is it pretty easy to get a nannying gig there around where you are? Um, is there a decent population there?

Makayla [3:00]: Yes. So there is definitely a decent population of people who stay here year round. Um, And there's just a shortage of caretakers. And so and, you know, people are a lot of people are moving here to start businesses and work and stuff. And so there's a lot of kids who don't have care and are just like, you know, thrown with, oh, this person for this day or, you know, so I just try and help where. where i can but yeah the triggers are i'm the more time i spend with a kid i usually start feeling you know that trigger feeling around them especially with the eating because they're learning how to eat and i try to just move around that or I've been doing it for long enough where I've kind of established some things.

Adeel [3:52]: Yeah. By moving around, do you mean like, I don't know, going to another room or getting outside, taking a break or communicating with the child that maybe they should do something slightly different?

Makayla [4:09]: Yeah. So I typically love to do snacks in the car. Um, and because I can turn on my music, I'm focused on driving. They're behind me. I can't see them. So that just all, um, like visual problems and but then you know they are behind me so it is a odd situation I guess but I just go with it I guess and it works and then if they are like eating I when I was younger I used to um feed everyone dinner and then I'd go around the corner in the hallway and just sit on the floor until they were done. And I never said anything. I would just feed them and disappear. And then when they were all done or if they needed something from the fridge, they'd ask and I'd get it up and get it to them and just go back to the floor. Cause I just, I couldn't be in there. It just was too, too bad. And so that's, I don't know what they thought about that, but I mean, I was with them and would play with them and whatnot. Um, it was just the eating part. I had to go away. And then there was some, uh, I guess repetitive sounds or like squeaky sounds that would bother me. And I would just like, okay, let's stop making that sound now. Or, you know, distract and, you know, whatever, just moving on to something new. So, you know, kids are, kids are great because they love new things. And so we can distract them easily, I guess.

Adeel [5:40]: Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting that you're talking about the car being kind of a refuge, because usually when I hear about a car mentioned on this podcast, it's like a torture chamber, but it's usually when the person's...

Makayla [5:53]: the misophones in the back seat but you're in control control of the volume you're not necessarily looking at the kid unless you need to look in the rearview mirror so i can see how that would be because i definitely have resonated with a lot of people on the podcast before with the car trauma because i lived in oregon growing up and my grandparents lived here and so i you know up and down i-5 you know a lot of my childhood and so cars were a torture chamber for me And now I'm able to like manage it a little bit better, but it's taken some time for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Adeel [6:27]: Yeah. That's, yeah, that's interesting. Okay. So, um, so yeah, so, so did you then grab, did you move here and take this vocation, um, to, you know, escape a life that was a little bit more misophonically, um, incompatible? Uh, is this something you kind of chose on purpose to, to find that, that piece specifically for this condition?

Makayla [6:49]: no not at all um i was definitely escaping my life by moving here but nothing work related i just kind of moved here knowing that i could find a job because everyone's hiring pretty much and so i was like I'll figure out something but then kids just always follow me for some reason and it's kind of funny because of misophonia because I wouldn't necessarily like my misophonia truest self wouldn't like to be around kids but my personality and my nature love kids and so it's really this like double-edged sword love-hate relationship and so I just saw a need and I love it.

Adeel [7:36]: Yeah. Okay. That's great. Yeah. That's interesting. Because a friend of mine who lives in Portland was recently Instagramming pictures of amazing pictures. And I was like, where the hell is this? And it was the San Juan Islands up near, you know, up in Washington. I was like, suddenly looking for real estate. If there's a... You should come visit.

Makayla [7:56]: Seriously, anyone... Definitely want to visit.

Adeel [7:58]: I mean, I actually will be in Seattle soon to visit family.

Makayla [8:02]: So maybe I'll... the day it's fun you just take a little ferry not a little it's huge actually take a ferry and it's fun there's fun shops and um pretty good food but uh

Adeel [8:14]: We'll have to do a Miss Phonia podcast convention in the San Juan Islands one day.

Makayla [8:18]: We'll just get everybody over there. You can just go to the beach and listen to the waves and just relax. Yep.

Adeel [8:23]: Yep. Yep. Oh, sounds amazing. Sounds beautiful. Okay. So, yeah, maybe let's back up to, I know there's a lot of stuff and you sent me, you sent me an email or an Instagram message about some stuff you wanted to talk about, but maybe we should, let's back up to something you said earlier about wanting to escape your life. Is that... You know how a lot of us had kind of like some kind of complex trauma earlier on in our lives? Are we kind of like talking about, you know, chaos at home, kind of like things that may have...

Makayla [8:59]: It's kind of everything all at once, but everything that you didn't expect.

Adeel [9:06]: Intriguing.

Makayla [9:07]: Yes. So I actually moved here to move out of my parents' house because, you know, it was kind of ending the pandemic, but like we're still in the pandemic. It was kind of that time. And of like, oh, it's getting better. And I just needed, I needed a way. I graduated high school during the pandemic, decided not to go to college because all my plans changed. And I was like, this is not, whatever. I'm just going to let it go for now. It's not the right time. And my grandparents have lived here for the past 30 years. And so I was like, I'm just going to go move to the island, take care of grandma. And as soon as I made that decision for myself, my parents also decided to move in with my grandma as well. And so I had gotten my own like tiny house here. And so I was living on the other side of the island. You know, I would check in on her, whatever. But then my parents moved into the house. And so after I was done working on the farm with the tiny house, my parents, we got a trailer for me to move back to the property. And so it was like the perfect storm. My dad needed a job change. My brother and I have always wanted to live here. and we needed to take care of grandma. So it was kind of this, okay, this is what's happening. And now we're here and we love it. And life is certainly not easy. It's been a lot of curve balls and a lot of growth, but we're here and we're glad to be here. But in moving here, this is when I started taking misophonia seriously because I was living in a tiny house with another human that wasn't my family. And so You know, I explained things before we had moved in and that was fine. But then as time went on, obviously triggers start popping up. You see a misophonia meltdown and, you know, eyebrows start to get raised of like, are you even normal?

Adeel [11:14]: Did you know this person beforehand? Yes, I did.

Makayla [11:18]: They were a friend. and i felt very comfortable with it and i was like we're in the woods we'll have space whatever but you know inevitably you know something happens but it was it was truly a blessing in disguise because They really cared for me and saw how much of distress that I was in and was able to be like, look, go get help. Go to therapy. Do something. Do something. They're like, just do something. Just start. Because I've always been interested in psychology and the way people work. I had just never gotten the opportunity to really do a deep dive on myself. And so that's what I did. And I have learned a lot over the past year.

Adeel [12:04]: so okay so you so then you you at that point you decided to see a therapist like a professional yes got professional help specifically from this phone yeah okay and how did you go about that was like like a kind of traditional um you know licensed therapist or um yeah kind of how did how did you seek that person out

Makayla [12:23]: Well, there's pretty much there's like private therapists here. But there's also just like one building. It's called Compass Health. And so I just went there and I got lucky. I've had a long history of doctors and therapists and whatever. And we can get into that later. But this time I was like, they're not going to there. There's nothing they can do for me. But I had read about CBT therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy. And so I was intrigued. And so I was like, you know what? I'm just going to go. And I got lucky. This woman, she was an intern. She wasn't even getting paid. And she went... total nerd on misophonia and wanted to learn everything she could and the irony is what she was deaf and so she had hearing aids and so she was able to sympathize with me in a way that no one else had before and she was like we are the opposite and that's okay but i can understand what you're feeling still And so it was a beautiful experience and every week she taught me something new and I tried to implement into my life. And so it's been such a growing year.

Adeel [13:39]: Wow, that's really interesting. That's beautiful. Yeah, that's, I mean, yeah, you're right. They're kind of opposite in some ways, but kind of able to sympathize because it's a debilitating auditory phenomena disorder. So what... So how did that start then? She obviously didn't know what Miss Funny was early on. And what are some of the things that she worked with you on?

Makayla [14:11]: so first you know getting to for her to get to know misophonia i just gave her kind of my life story and just like everything that happened everything i suspected misophonia could be related to because it's for me it is so intersectional in so many areas of my life and traumas and

Adeel [14:31]: that's what people don't understand that uh well anonymous folks don't understand is that it's not just being annoyed with sound sorry sorry to cut in but but it's interesting yeah it is very intersectional it's so many different dimensions and layers um so exactly yeah i was like i might i just told her i was like i'm not going to talk about sounds this whole time because all of these facts matter i was like i feel that to my core and she just listened and then

Makayla [14:59]: From there, we talked. She was like, OK, so what are your issues right now? And before we had gotten the trailer on our property for me, I was sleeping on our couch. And so I had no room, no room in the inn. And our house is a loft. And so every night I could hear my mom snore. And that was a beautiful time in my life. You know, just great. You know, getting no sleep and being triggered all night. and so we just we really focused on my current issues of that time because everything in my life had changed to where i all the coping skills that i had um as a child growing up in my childhood home were out the door i was in a completely new space completely new town new dynamic with my grandma. And so we just started from zero from where I was and what I was going through. And so the major things that we worked on were being triggered and leaving the situation or having the agency to leave the situation because All my life, I was in freeze mode, pretty much, when it came to being triggered. I was in fight or flight in other areas of my life, but when it came to misophonia, I just froze. And just shut down. I just shut down. And so she was like, you can leave. And I was like, I know that, but I need to actually start doing that. And so then I started leaving when I was triggered. But the thing was, is I would leave in a very chaotic way. Not dramatic, like when I was a teenager, like stomping a mistake. But I would like... I was like a cartoon character almost like running through the kitchen, like, ah, don't start eating. Like I'm going to go now. And so it was just like very chaotic for me and it didn't feel very peaceful and fluid. And so we just kind of talked and walked through that and how I can just like take a deep breath and be like, thank you for spending time with me. I love this conversation. I'm going to go now. Now, luckily, my family is amazing and will tell me like, hey, I'm making a sandwich. I'm going to be upstairs in a few minutes. Just so you know, like you need to wrap up your conversation pretty much because they know I'm going to leave anyways. And so it's yeah, it's been a learning experience, but we really worked on like how to leave like a normal human, I guess, like nicely. And and then it also helped me just get to a place where i could make accommodations for myself and i didn't have to just sit there and suffer and think that i was crazy and have these intrusive thoughts but that i could be like okay there's a trigger happening right now i can do something about it i can pay attention to my breath if that's what i need to do in this situation i can walk away I can put in earbuds, you know, all the little techniques and tools that we can have. I just was like, I'm actually going to use them now. And so it was very empowering to to be able to put in my head plugs or earplugs and and just feel calm for once. Like that was amazing feeling.

Adeel [18:41]: Yeah, that's great. Getting, getting you working, working to get out of the free situation. Um, and in that, in the situation where you were hearing your mom sleeping was, was like earplugs the solution there to kind of like make that go away or, uh, curious how you, how you, uh, how you managed to, uh, get over that.

Makayla [19:01]: Yeah. So just from like baseline, I am a pillow over my head sleeper and so and i genuinely feel like that is misophonia related like how could it not be um i don't think my neck likes it at all i think it's all my ears and so i think that's funny so i would do that but then i could obviously still hear and so then i just kept adding things and so i got like a headband with um bluetooth speakers in them that i could lay down on and so i would just play like chakra music or brown noise all night and just it would lull me to sleep and it was great and then if i did wake up in the middle of the night and that was off of my head because it would slip off sometimes and I could hear her that's when it got tricky because the house was so quiet that I could still like hear her almost or even the music I thought that I was hearing her it was it was definitely a mind thing And so then just to calm my mind, I'd put earplugs in and then a sound band. And that would, you know, get me back to sleep. But there were also nights where I would just, like, sit on the deck outside. Like, and just look at the stars or something. Because I was just like, I can't be in there. I just can't be in that space.

Adeel [20:33]: And how is it now then? Overall, like, living...

Makayla [20:37]: and sleeping in your house with your family it's good so now i have my own trailer and so i do have my own space and i have had to make some accommodations with that But it's pretty good. I, you know, our family obviously with me doesn't like eat together, even just them in general. They just, you know, everyone's my brother has soccer, you know, parents want to eat when they want. And so we've just kind of thrown that tradition out the window. Yeah.

Adeel [21:09]: And it's usually the first thing that goes.

Makayla [21:11]: Exactly. And so eating is kind of, I just try to avoid it. And if someone is about to eat, they just kind of tell me and then I maneuver myself away. And then, but we are still able to spend time together. But everyone in my family does have their own trigger to me. And so, and it's all different, but it's all the same feeling that happens. And so...

Adeel [21:42]: Do they all help to accommodate you? Is there anyone in your family who's kind of a, you know, not really into it?

Makayla [21:53]: So, I mean, I've had misophonia for 11 years now. So when I say this, I want to emphasize that it has taken this long to get to this place where we are. But everyone has been very accommodating. Not, I wouldn't say accommodating at first, but aware of what I'm going through. And it took them a long time to realize how real this was for me and how intense it was for me. But once we got to that place, they have been incredible. And we still have like plastic bowls. We do have ceramic ones, but just in case I'm there, someone uses the plastic and then we have bamboo spoons and forks and knives. so we and then um what what else have they done i'm trying to think yeah just it's just communication at this point yeah um and then yeah it's often what it is it's like uh i think our our minds our lizard brains like if they if

Adeel [23:02]: they can, if somebody is at least aware and making some effort, then our brain unassigns the threat that we wouldn't normally assign to them. So that helps a lot.

Makayla [23:15]: Exactly. And that's what's been really helpful for me, at least, is just identifying it, whether that's in my brain out loud or even someone else. And just saying like, Hey, I need to finish my cracker or something. And I'm like, okay, thank you. Like, and it's weird because you sound crazy and you sound like you're controlling what they're eating, but it's just, it's a brain thing. Like you just can't explain it. And yeah, but everyone's been really good and really kind. but I also don't spend like a ton of time with my family. It's not like I see them all the time and, you know, hanging out with them all day. Like it's very brief and we connect, but then we go our own separate ways and do our own thing. So I think just that rhythm has also helped.

Adeel [24:16]: Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, I always kind of ask, I'm sure they'll still come up also later, but if and how has misophonia affected your relationship with your family? Some people are completely ostracized from an early age, which is really sad. It sounds like you guys have created some kind of a balance. Yeah, I know. It sounds like you guys have created some kind of a balance where they're very accommodating or at least are aware and try to be. But it's not like you spend all day right next to each other.

Makayla [24:49]: Yeah, exactly.

Adeel [24:50]: There's a balance that has evolved that's probably the best we can hope for. Yeah. Do you want to maybe go back to kind of the early days for you and kind of when you started noticing this and how it evolved?

Makayla [25:04]: I have now been diagnosed with autism. And so there have been things in my childhood that were like... Like I was familiar with the triggering feeling when misophonia came into the picture. I was familiar with that. Something feels off. And so there are sensitivities that I had as a child. that you know were throughout my childhood but then when misophonia happened that's when like whoa this is something real for real like this is this is another level of crazy and i and i i use crazy i i know some people don't like that word but i i'm like it's spicy like i'm interesting like you don't have you're you don't have a brain like me and so i mean it in a very endearing way But yeah, so there was some sensitivities and one being, I listened to last week's episode as we're recording this and it was Robert and he was triggered by his mother's voice and it triggered a memory of mine and I was very uncomfortable around one of my grandmas and she has a very high-pitched voice and one of the highest pitched voice I've ever heard. And so apparently that was the thing. I was like two. And so I don't remember it. I just remember being told like, yeah, you didn't really like grandma when you were a kid. And so that raises a red flag in my mind being like that, that was definitely related. But then it wasn't until I was nine that misophonia just plopped in my life and has never left. And I was just eating waffles with my brother one morning. That's all it was. And he was just smacking his food. That's all. And I just had that, like, enraging feeling. And, you know, intrusive thoughts at the ripe age of nine. And I asked him to stop. And my dad said, if you have a problem with it, you can go to the other room. And I have since talked to him about that. And I was like, Dad, it sounds like something you would say, like, is my memory right? And he was like, yeah, that's definitely what I said. Because you I'm teaching you if you don't like someone something that you have the power to to move out of that situation and so in that moment he was really trying to like he didn't know what was going on obviously but he was trying to empower me to walk away from bad situation but in turn in turn what that what what he said taught me was no one else is feeling like this and now i have to now i like it's all me it's this is my problem that i have to deal with and i have to walk away with and right and so i don't you know i i'm obviously don't have any grudges towards him and what he said because he was just being a parent absolutely doing what he trying his best that's what i'm trying to say um just trying best and so um But it's interesting to think, because I remember that moment so specifically that it's like, I just remember being like, oh, so now it's my problem. Like no one else is hearing what I'm hearing.

Adeel [28:46]: Yeah, it was kind of like a switch that morning where this is probably not the first time waffles were being eaten in the house. Absolutely not. Yeah, something about that day. Was there anything going on around your life around that time that you know that was, I don't know, different or changing?

Makayla [29:05]: Yes, but here's where the, it's been 11 years and trauma makes your mind like scrambled eggs. And so I don't know what came before or after, but during that time, my grandparents living in the San Juan Islands had a house fire and unrelated to the house fire, my grandfather was in the hospital for about a year. He had an infected hip. And so- That happened when I was nine, but I don't know which happened first. And so, you know, I know the house fire was in January when I was nine, but I don't know what, you know, I don't know where it lands on the timeline, which is frustrating to me because I want to have that timeline accurate, but some things we just won't have the answers to.

Adeel [30:00]: Yeah, so you don't remember what day that was where you were eating the waffles.

Makayla [30:03]: No, I wish I had marked it on my calendar. Like, I felt crazy this morning or something. Or like a journal or something. I just wish there was some evidence because I'm just so curious, honestly.

Adeel [30:20]: Yeah, well, yeah, no, that's, that's, yeah, it's interesting, because, yeah, it's, it's, you know, I've heard multiple people say they were, you know, a grandparent passed away, and then they noticed misophonia at the funeral, and that was, you know, and then from that point on, it was, you know, game over, and so, you know, a grandparent that they were close to, and so, multiple people, and it's kind of purely, yeah.

Makayla [30:50]: The trauma and the sensitivity, like it's, it goes together. I don't know how, but if you're a researcher, it goes together. I'm just telling you. This is what my body, my system is telling you.

Adeel [31:03]: Yeah. So then how, so yeah, then after that day, obviously you were starting, probably starting to get triggered by more things. It's, you said earlier that, you know, everyone in your family has their, their trigger. How did it kind of evolve? Did it just kind of like snowball pretty quickly?

Makayla [31:20]: So I think I have kind of an interesting story, and it's interesting because I feel like my story resonates with so many people that I've listened to. And so after that incident, then when I was 10, my family decided to move. And... So we moved to a town where we didn't have a house, but we had friends. And so our friends invited them into their home. They are lovely. I'm still friends with them to this day. I don't know how, but it was nine people in one house with my family being in one bedroom. And so you have stomping, you have all the meals, snoring, and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. I don't want to list everything, but that's just the main ones that I'll say. And so that was a very intense six months for me. I definitely disassociated. I don't even, like, from misophonia, like, the 9, 10, 11, 12 age, I genuinely don't remember a lot. I think I disassociated from myself. And and then, you know, so we got through like living with them. And then once we moved into our own home and I got my own room, I was so excited. I instantly fell into a very deep depression as a sixth grader or fifth grader or whatever. And that was really scary because I didn't know what was happening. And I was pretty sure it was depression because it's, you know, run in my family. I've been exposed to it. But it was like, I don't know what to do. Like, what's happening? And I'm suffering. And then I go to school and I'm tired and I'm annoyed. And, you know, just all the things. Like, I know I don't have to explain everything thoroughly to you guys because everyone gets it to some extent.

Adeel [33:24]: Yeah. So, okay. So it was after that, your, your whole family in the room. So these were all kind of like, um, stemming, I mean, seems like stemming from, uh, misophonia or did you have the autism? Um, and we were talking earlier about kind of intersectional, uh, issues, issues with you. Do you know, kind of, was there a timeline or cause and effect of, uh, you know, how, how this kind of. How did this all happen? Do you feel like misophonia is kind of the root of a lot of this?

Makayla [33:57]: That's what's kind of confusing to me. And I'm fairly newly diagnosed with autism. But with autism, you can't develop it. You're born with it. And misophonia, you develop it. But it's also in your DNA. So it's kind of that gray area. We don't know. But autism, to me, feels very... It's just like who I am and what I do and how I think. Misophonia feels like it's another entity that is so deep in the core of who I am and it like just comes out from time to time. But the depths of how I feel it are like very at my core.

Adeel [34:48]: Gotcha. So autism is kind of something you're born with, but more kind of your baseline. I think autism is considered more of a trait, right? Rather than like a disorder, I believe, is how it's defined. Yeah. But misophonia is more of a... It's just a brain thing.

Makayla [35:04]: Oh, sorry, I interrupted.

Adeel [35:08]: No, no, no. Yeah, it's funny. Like I think you were saying earlier is, yeah, very much, you know, a deep thing that comes out like a Jekyll and Hyde kind of situation when you're triggered. Yes. And so, and then the dissociation that was happening again, that was really a result of kind of that intense, almost claustrophobic environment that you were in?

Makayla [35:33]: Yeah, I'm sure.

Adeel [35:34]: yeah like 100 i just couldn't deal with it i guess and so part of that is that when dissociation is that's kind of like maybe synonymous with the freeze reaction that you were having that you were talking about earlier

Makayla [35:48]: oh probably yeah yeah that makes perfect sense because because i never said anything to anyone like up up until i don't i don't know when exactly i said or someone noticed what was happening like i that's the other part that i don't remember is like when i actually said something or if my parents noticed i was being triggered and realized like the connection i don't know when that was it eventually happened thank god but um it wasn't for a while and so i was just very like just in my body frozen shameful guilty afraid um like as a nine-year-old what were you afraid of was it was it just afraid of being triggered I don't even know what I was afraid of. It was just a feeling in my body that I could not get away from.

Adeel [36:44]: Gotcha, yeah. Yeah, and you brought up shame and guilt. I mean, obviously, pretty much every episode talks to that. That comes up at some point. Was that the shame and guilt of not understanding why you are not wanting to interact with your parents or just...

Makayla [37:04]: feeling like you're a burden that kind of shame and guilt that we all have i think it's all above and and more like i was also raised in a christian household and in christianity shame and guilt is not taught but heavily applied and And so I think I was more susceptible to shame and guilt to begin with, with my upbringing. And then you add misophonia to it and you have intrusive thoughts about hurting your loved ones and you feel bad. And then you react and then you either get in trouble for your reaction and that causes more trauma or... And or you just feel like a burden. Yeah, it's just like it's it's truly a vicious cycle. And yeah, until you are aware of it and have agency and have language like language. Hello. We need to talk about that. Having the language to describe what is going on and how sensitive we are. And because this podcast has taught me so many words and like how to explain misophonia to people. And like people on the podcast have come on and said things like, like really, I don't even know what they've said, but just really like put together sentences that only misophones would know. And I felt it in my gut. Like that's what I've been feeling. Okay. That was just another way to explain it. And so, yeah, I just, I think it all just piled on top.

Adeel [38:47]: then how did you yeah how did you uh sounds like a deep hole that you went into what kind of like helped you crawl out was it something you did or something your family recognized or maybe at school i i think it was kind of a time thing um my i think again a lot was going on um

Makayla [39:09]: I have, you know, again, very loving parents and a fairly healthy household. And I'm very blessed and very grateful for that. But there were definitely things. And so in that time, I was also, you know, going to church as a family. And at that age is when is also the time where I started being triggered at church. which got really dangerous um and that adds to the shame and guilt um because i think being triggered in a place that is supposed to be sacred is really damaging um for your psyche like not not physically like you know as far as misophonia goes but it was really damaging to my psyche because you know i'm taught about the fruits of the spirit and all these things all these good things that i'm supposed to be and i know that my true nature can be but i'm sitting there hearing my father breathe next to me and i just want to kill him like that's all i could think about yeah and in church and they're saying you know like repent like jesus loves you like you don't need to feel bad like you can just jesus will forgive you and you know all these things and i'm literally thinking about murdering my father right next to me in front of everyone you know like i'm like i'm like crazy in my head and so it was just like i for a while i or at one point i definitely thought that i was the devil himself and was like yep because everything that i was taught about from the pulpit about the devil i was experiencing And there was no love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness inside my heart and especially self-control. Like, hello. Like, there was just none of that at that time. I was just suffering so bad that I was like, OK, well, then if I'm not that, then I'm the devil. And. He's seeped his little claws into my head and I'm just going to be this way. I'm just going to be miserable. And so I, you know, but it's hard because I was 12. And so it's kind of like I was also going through that like puberty stage. So it was just all over the place all the time.

Adeel [41:31]: Right.

Makayla [41:32]: did your um yeah i know it's funny when you when you were saying that it's like you you know i'll watch uh you know a movie horror movies like the exorcist or the omen and i'm like yeah that's kind of i mean there's something new here this is kind of what i think about sometimes yeah it's very haunting no this condition is very haunting i think that is a great word it just feels like little horror like snippet in your brain brain just for a little and then it goes away but it's just there we go

Adeel [42:02]: Yeah, and before we move on to what was going on in high school, you talked about the need for language. What are maybe some of the language pieces that have been valuable for you as you explained?

Makayla [42:21]: Well, and OK, so I would like to preface before this that I'm not a big language geek. And so I kind of use language very freely. And if it resonates, it resonates. And if it doesn't, it doesn't. And if you have a different definition than whatever, like I don't care. I'm just using language that works for me. So like the word sound sensitivity has really helped me explain to other people Is it the right medical term for us? No. But it has helped me at least explain to other people. Because the word misophonia is so weird. And people think that you're speaking a different language. Not even from Earth.

Adeel [43:09]: Yeah, people think we're saying phobia.

Makayla [43:13]: Yeah. And it's like, it's not that. It's not that. And then a great one is just the word overstimulated. And I know it's super simple, but just like I'm feeling overstimulated right now. And it has allowed me to realize that feeling of, oh, I'm about to be triggered. Or... A trigger is about to happen. Or I am triggered. I am overstimulated. Or whatever. And so I have. I probably have plenty more. I just am not thinking of them right now.

Adeel [43:50]: Oh no that's fine. If you think of them along the way. I'd just be curious as we're talking. Because I'm sure people are curious. About how to explain it to others.

Makayla [44:00]: Yeah. But I think the. Neurodivergent world. and language has taught me a lot about how to understand misophonia more which i think is really interesting because misophonia hasn't been researched as much um having more like neurodivergent friends and um you know people with autism adhd whatever it might may be

Adeel [44:29]: they somehow seem more understanding and welcoming to misophonia and are able to sympathize with me more and it's really interesting um yeah so i was going to ask the next like yeah after um yeah as you're as you're growing up and getting into high school how did how did your situation with friends were you seeking out new and divergent friends did you have any issues making friends

Makayla [44:58]: Um, I was, you know, the plot, the plot continues and I was still all over the place. Um, I, I had a lot of friends actually, but I didn't have like a particular friend group. And so at lunch for school, I would, you know, have put my lunch box somewhere, but I would walk around the cafeteria and talk to different people. And so I'm very chatty. I'm very sociable. I love talking to people. It's like, it's kind of, I guess in terms of the fight, flight or freeze, I feel more like my personality is like, or the fight part is more like, we're just gonna go talk to people and we're just gonna distract our mind and we're gonna get hyper and we're gonna be engaged and just like, like extra, like almost manic, but not. I guess.

Adeel [45:57]: Gotcha.

Makayla [45:57]: So that was kind of my fight is I would just walk around, be hyper, talk to people. Oh, you're eating a cracker now. Now I'm going to go to this new table. And, you know, and I was just all over the place and people would say like, sit down, enjoy, like chill. And I'm like, no, absolutely not.

Adeel [46:15]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, a lot of us, even with families will, will, will more likely to walk around because we can more quickly move out of the situation.

Makayla [46:26]: But then the other thing with my high school experience that is weird is that I actually never went to high school. And so that's an interesting aspect. Where I used to live, which was in the Tacoma area. our ninth graders were in the junior high. And so I went to ninth grade all year. And then after that was the end of that year, I just... woke up with a headache one morning and i just felt in my gut it was serious and it wasn't gonna go away and it really scared me and so i went to i you know went to the doctor and told them like i have misophonia i feel like this is something related to it i have been going to school i feel very fatigued and tired and all these things and they just gave me muscle relaxer And said I'd be okay. I had a headache for two years after that. And misophonia definitely did not get better. And so I pretty much dropped out of school at that point. I did online. And so, you know, I had a bunch of friends, went to school, and then I just disappeared. Like, absolutely disappeared. I would see people in town sometimes, and they'd be like... Where have you been? Like, I almost forgot about you type of thing. And I'm like, it's okay. Like, I don't want to talk to any of you because I'm in so much pain. But I didn't care if people forgot about me. I just had no care in the world. And high school just sounded like a war zone to me. Like the lights, the clicking talk, the clock, the people, the gum, everything. I just couldn't. And so ultimately what I've learned now is I think I was having a... Oh, wait. Oh, sorry. I'm forgetting the word. Oh, I totally lost the word.

Adeel [48:38]: No worries. No worries. Yeah, yeah.

Makayla [48:41]: But pretty much my brain was just tired from being around all those people for so long and not having any accommodations.

Adeel [48:52]: Yeah. So did you ever try to get accommodations at school?

Makayla [48:56]: Never. It was never even a consideration of mine.

Adeel [48:59]: Did you know what the term was? Well, obviously you knew that you had some sensitivities, but was it maybe a rap? Like a lot of us, we don't even think about it because we think we're crazy. Yeah.

Makayla [49:13]: So I did... have the word i knew of the word like when i was 14 so it was like a year before head pain kind of started and and i actually in my ninth grade year i did have a teacher that said no gum i have this thing called misophonia and i walked my little butt up to her desk after the teachers had misophonia yeah and i said i have misophonia too and she was like oh my goodness and she was like whatever you need just let me know And so in her class, I would cover my eyes because the lights were too bright and I would plug my ears because I could hear the clock or someone chewing or something. And that's the thing with me is that my triggers expand outside of misophonia. It's not just eating. It also is the clock. It's the lights. It's the washing machine. It's the water pressure. It's the dogs. It's so important.

Adeel [50:10]: So it's auditory. There's also, yeah, I was going to ask, you get the visual triggers, but by washing machine, only one.

Makayla [50:19]: Only one. This is so interesting to me. I only have one, like I can get visually triggered if I'm like watching someone eat from far away. But I don't really count that as like a specific visual trigger. That's just my eyeballs working and then my brain interpreting it. But my trigger is my mom spins her ankles around in circles for like a long time. And I've never seen anyone do it before. But like, she just like rolls her ankles and it bothers me so bad that I would just be like, mom, stop. And she's like, what am I doing? I'm like, your ankles. you're being evil yeah yeah exactly even sometimes like the way she sits with her ankles it just makes me uncomfortable looking at it and i'm just like can you move your feet in a better position for me please it's like really weird and that's where i feel like I feel like a bitch sometimes or a control freak or like, you know, just this crazy person. Cause I'm like, you need to sit differently for me to feel better, but I'm a completely across the room and I'm probably going to leave in three minutes because someone's going to get out food. So it's like, I just feel like. I've had friends come into, you know, my family space and they've said like, do you realize how much your family moves around you and you only like they, they don't consider each other as much as they consider you. Like they're trying to be so cautious. And, and that's where a lot of guilt comes in. Cause I'm like, I know they're doing so much and I'm still feel triggered in some moments, but like, at least they're doing something. Like I'm so thankful because that's, I know I'm like extremely fortunate in that way because it's just heartbreaking hearing like people who have been disowned or estranged and like, just know that there are people out there who will respect us and will respect our needs because they exist. They just exist. And you just got to put that energy out into the world that they will find you and you will find them.

Adeel [52:39]: Yeah, they exist. It's worth highlighting this because there's a bunch of, speaking of intersectional, there's a bunch of things here. First of all, I think um a lot of people tend to who don't have this point tend to think that we don't realize that we are um probably a burden and that we have all this guilt they you know they see they see our demands and they think that we're just being control freaks when there's a lot more going on another thing is uh you know we would you know i would think that you and i would if somebody else had a condition like this we would accommodate for them as well i mean uh you know mr funny is just considered It's not as popular as some of the other issues that a lot of people get to give accommodations for. And so we're just kind of early in the curve, I think, early in the arc. And hopefully, you know, we will be taken as seriously as these other conditions.

Makayla [53:29]: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Being taken seriously is like a huge thing. And that's something that I've grown a lot in. I used to be very ashamed and like feel guilty for telling someone that I have misophonia. But since moving to a new place and just being like, this is who I am. And I know this is not for everyone. This is just what I'm doing. And if you like it, then use it. And if you don't, who cares? But I just tell people I have misophonia. Like, if I hang out with them for the first time or whatever, I just say, hey, I have a neurological condition. It's called misophonia. You can... eat with me but please like be cautious um please don't eat gum please you know and I just like I put it out there because I don't want anyone to be surprised six months into a friendship and then be like oh my god I have to act completely different around you because in my experience and I know this might not be scientifically true but in my experience to the point like i can be friends with someone or be in a relationship with someone and i know when i start to love them because that's when i feel triggered as soon as something like oh my gosh i really do love them like love this person and i want them in my life forever that's when a trigger comes up it's so interesting so do you mean you you you tell them that you love them and then the triggers start or it's like you you can tell that you are having feelings for them because again it's kind of that complicated like i don't know if it was like i made the decision like wow i truly do love this person and then they started triggering me or they started triggering me and then i was like wow i do really love this person i'm not sure which because you know there's been a few instances but it's definitely very similar timing And I think it's kind of scary. So that's why I just won't let people know.

Adeel [55:37]: Right, right. Okay, okay. No, yeah. It's always, I mean, the more this gets out there, the more it's communicated, I think the more normalized it could be. And so...

Makayla [55:50]: guess i'm also like i'm not 21 yet i'm not like going to bars and partying and you know covid so i'm not making a ton of friends to begin with here i live on an island there's not that many people and so it's very selective like i'm very selective with my friends in general so when i do hang out with them that means that okay they're a safe person i can tell that I have misophonia too. Yeah. So it's, you know, it kind of goes together. It's not like, I'm just like, Oh my God, I have misophonia. Everyone should know. Like that's just great.

Adeel [56:23]: Right. You have a, you announced it from across the, across the, the bay or wherever the beach. So, okay. So you're, yeah so let's see actually we're getting to about to an hour but there's so much i guess we could talk about but let's let's i don't know let's maybe um i mean we're we're we're kind of around high school so it's not not that many more years left until we get to the present but um i guess um do you want to maybe talk about uh yeah so well i guess what have you done i guess since you see you graduated online from from from high school um how did things kind of evolve like were you seeing i mean were you seeing doctors and therapists for other conditions like autism um or other issues and kind of curious how that the dance between that and misophonia landed. And I'm actually not sure when you said that you found your current doctor. I think that was just about a year ago.

Makayla [57:27]: Yeah. So through that time, I was experiencing extreme headaches, not just a headache that would come and go. Not a migraine, but a just complete head pain that I would wake up with and I would go to sleep with. It was constant. And still to this day, I don't know what it stemmed from. I don't know how it went away. I don't know anything. It just was there.

Adeel [57:53]: But it did go away.

Makayla [57:54]: It did. But I do have frequent headaches now. Like I end each night pretty much with an ice pack on my head, which I'm fine with. But... you know, at least it's not all day.

Adeel [58:09]: Yeah. Hopefully that'll go away.

Makayla [58:13]: Yeah. Yeah. So I was, I, you know, went to that initial doctor. They gave me a muscle relaxer, which is completely irresponsible to give a 15 year old person with just a headache who said she has a neurological condition. just muscle relaxers. I just cannot believe that happened. And I know there's a lot of worse things that doctors have done, but I'm just like, dude, I literally was trying to do my best and communicate with you, but you could not do the same. But you know, we all understand that doctors are just not going to listen to us. So after that, I went to a naturopath and because I was just like, this is the doctors aren't going to help me. I just had this feeling. I also switched my diet completely that summer between school years. I went gluten free and then I went completely vegan. And then I started going to the naturopath and he had me cut out soy, sugar, corn, and some other things. And so I was completely whole food plant-based diet for about a year as well. And so I did a lot in that time. I was taking supplements. I was doing acupuncture, massage, eating good, like going on walks, making sure I was, you know, being careful with that and nothing was working it just nothing and i you know we got my blood tested i got an mri done there was a lot um checked my thyroid like all these things i don't even remember um i think i'm saying them all but there's probably more But just not, I was just always coming up normal, average human. And a lot of my autistic traits went under the radar as well. You know, mostly because of masking. And typically women are really good at masking and just like a chameleon almost. Like we look at other people in a situation and we're like, oh, that's what everyone sees as normal. Okay, that's what I'm going to do too. So a lot of my personality wasn't shown to people around me. Only like I got to see that. And so all like pretty much everything about me, just like the true me just flew under the radar. And so it's really frustrating to like look back at that time. Cause I feel like, or I wish that I could have been more one honest with myself, but then honest with those around me. And so it is quite frustrating to think like I was in so much pain for so long and did all these things and spent so much money, my own money, too. Like I was babysitting at this time, like paying for my naturopath as a 15 year old. And because I knew that I was like I knew I needed to get some help. I knew I needed help in some way. I just didn't know how. what and so it just felt very disappointing like every time going to a doctor trying to figure out what's wrong with you especially when you're in chronic pain having anxiety in depression like and and then every time you leave someone's like yeah you're fine you know i'm like i'm not fine i am light years away from fine right now

Adeel [61:55]: Yeah, yeah, wow, okay. And then, well, I guess, yeah, since then, yeah, you got to today.

Makayla [62:04]: On a lighter note, let's, yeah, that was, like, the big dumpster fire of pain and growing up, but then here, moving to the San Juan Islands and being in the woods and just saying, okay, Michaela, like, this is... There is something wrong with you and you need to understand that and you need to recognize that. And so one, just like recognizing I needed help, recognizing I did have a problem and then allowing myself to nurture that side of me. and and to say instead of being ashamed of because i i this is and again doctors have also suspected that i could be bipolar or have multiple personalities again that's where misophonia is very confusing because it just is confusing and i because how i've explained misophonia to people is like it's another part of my brain it's like another person in me It's like has another voice almost. And I don't know if other people like relate to that at all, but I had to nurture that person, that being or whatever inside of me that was misophonia and say, okay, I will walk away for you now. I will put in earplugs. I will ask someone to stop. I will make accommodations for myself because I deserve it. My nervous system deserves it. And I feel so much better after doing that and just allowing myself to nurture misophonia and not to hate it, not to be mad at it. I do hate it and I do am mad at it a lot, but in the overall sense of going, okay, this isn't like the devil inside of me now. This is something I need to take care of and say, I love you. Even though you caused me pain, I love you because...

Adeel [64:08]: who knows maybe misophonia is protecting us from something else i have no idea like yeah so a lot of stuff to unpack there but you're you're absolutely right and this is actually one of the uh aspects of misophonia therapy that i've learned over the last even less than a year that there is a direct kind of a direct therapeutic direction which um is based on and i'm not a doctor but it is uh but you know professionals talk about this it's based on the idea that um misophonia is related to some some wounded inner child something that may have happened or a series of things that may have happened not necessarily like big traumatic giant traumatic things but minor traumatic things that may have happened early on yeah exactly and there's a wounded child that was not uh supported And it takes maybe your older self to talk to it, to give it compassion as a way to kind of, you know, get over that and at least help a little bit. So I think it's interesting that you've kind of come to that conclusion yourself.

Makayla [65:17]: And I feel everything that you just said, like in my core, because again, this is something that developed. So that means something had to have happened to make this a thing in my brain. And so. And I know there's been a lot that has happened in my life that is weird and confusing and complex. And everyone needs to do that inner work and inner self-love. But I think for us, it's on such an extreme level. of like, because we feel stuff so intensely, it's like, oh no, I don't just like need a self-love day. I need to actually love myself because if I don't, the possibility of me being suicidal is very high. Like, if I don't fully just love and care for myself every single day, that means I could slip into something deeper and darker than even misophonia. And so, like, it's very real. And so, yeah, like, coping and all this language and the, you know, whether it's big T trauma, small T trauma, like, work through it. Face your demons. face the bad shit that happened, and not that it's a cure for misophonia, but it might just help in general.

Adeel [66:41]: Oh, I think it absolutely will. Yeah, great advice, everything you just said. I hope people rewind a bit and listen to that. Listen to it again. You're absolutely right.

Makayla [66:52]: Well, I think... Sorry, I keep cutting you off. I'm so bad at interrupting. It's, like, really bad. Sorry. But the other thing that has helped me with, like, diving deeper into misophonia and coping strategies, instead of, oh, how, because, like, yes, there are researchers researching misophonia and a cure. And, like, please keep going. Keep doing that. We love you. Thank you. Like, seriously. That's amazing. But where my brain's at right now is what do we do in the meantime when there is no cure and we're still suffering? And so what I did was instead of like misophonia, misophonia, misophonia, like eating all this, I tried to. change my focus to my nervous system. And that's when stuff really started clicking for me, where I was like, oh, it's not just my ears. It's not just my reaction. It this is my entire body. Like this is affecting my entire body. My you know, like my neck is tense. My hips hurt. I have a lot of like weird, like just bodily not even bodily issues, but just like aches and pains. Like I feel like I'm 70, but I'm 20. And so I'm just like, all of this has something to do with each other. And so once I started focusing on my nervous system, that's when things really were like, oh, I can do this. Like I am a better human than how I've been acting in the past. This is working. And so one of those things is, you know, CBT obviously helped me, like, talk things through, but I know that's not for everyone. And then tapping, emotional freedom technique, has changed the game incredibly. Have you ever heard of it?

Adeel [68:52]: I have, but I would love to hear your take on it and what you do.

Makayla [68:59]: You know, I was shocked. And... my therapist like just told me about it one day and I was like, Hmm, that's interesting. Cause I've been meditating for five years, you know, often, you know, it wasn't like everyday thing, but I thought that at the time that could help obviously didn't, um, if not made meditating even harder. Cause I would, you know, hear my brother playing guitar and I'm like, shut up. And so, um, it was kind of that meditating was hard so tapping once i found that i was like it's very similar to meditating but you just hit certain pressure points on your hands and your head your chest and and then you talk things through and so like for example you could say even though i'm feeling triggered i can still walk away even though I'm about to go into a loud stimulating environment, I will be okay at the end and I can get through this. And you can say anything, like literally anything you want and just tap it out. Please look it up. It's awesome. And I just feel better. It's just very empowering. And I even did like a tapping before this and just like, You can do this. You know what to say. This is your life. You don't have to prepare anything. This is your life. You just get to share your story. And I just tapped it out. And I felt so much better.

Adeel [70:30]: Does a professional have to kind of work with you to talk about where to tap or what to say? Just look it up on YouTube. youtube yeah okay okay just look it up on there's like an instagram account there's a youtube there's you know just like good old google um and yeah you know it's come up a couple times on the podcast and at the yeah the first time i heard it i was like that can't be real but i've i've been the more i hear about it the more it's definitely uh and i've read about it in books now so yeah i'm very intrigued now and uh yeah that's definitely what i thought

Makayla [71:10]: There's no way that it helps with misophonia. Nothing I have done has ever taken away misophonia. But it has helped my body process the negative emotions that misophonia causes. like embody, I guess, and helps me move through those emotions and feelings and whatever.

Adeel [71:36]: And so back to equilibrium.

Makayla [71:38]: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And then another thing I did try was EMDR. And I have mixed feelings about that. I was very intrigued because it sounded awesome. And, but the therapist and I did not, we didn't vibe, I guess. Like it was just very odd. And then she like forgot why I was there. And I told, I had had a dream about my dad chewing strawberries. And I told her, I was like, um, triggers are, you know, like showing up in my dreams. And she was like, oh, triggers like a gunshot. And I just looked at her and I said, no, my dad eating a strawberry.

Adeel [72:25]: Yeah.

Makayla [72:26]: It was so funny to me. I was like, no, like in that moment, I just was like, you don't get it. Like you don't get it. And EMDR is deep trauma work. And if I don't feel comfortable with the person that I'm with, there's no way I'm going to get anywhere with this.

Adeel [72:43]: Right. Right.

Makayla [72:44]: And so I just like put that on the shelf. I might do it in the future.

Adeel [72:48]: It might be worth trying again with somebody who's more aware of what's happening. Yeah.

Makayla [72:54]: I was just like, no, my dad eating a strawberry. Yeah. Okay.

Adeel [73:02]: um okay uh um wow yeah that was super interesting and we're yeah we're getting we're a little obviously a little bit more now i feel like we can keep going but maybe we might have to have you on for uh some kind of a part two at some point but uh but for now like is there anything else you kind of want to talk about especially maybe in terms of like what's helped you lately i'm also curious about um how do you see the future? You're young and you're nannying now. I don't know if you're thinking about what you want to do after you move out and whatnot, but that could be maybe a whole conversation in itself. But if there's any techniques that you want to mention, yeah, it'd be great to hear. But yeah, I'm also just kind of want to hear what you think about the future, especially after what you've gone through.

Makayla [73:52]: Yeah, well, I definitely could talk on and on for hours and hours about this. You know, it's just I love psychology and love people and just like how we are operating. And so and I as I've grown up, I've realized how different I am from everybody else. And like, oh, you don't think like me. And so that makes me just like. I feel like a narcissist a lot because I'm so intrigued with like why I do the things I do, but it's, it's more in like a curiosity. Like why am I different? What is going on? So yeah, there's that, but I could literally go on and on, but breath work is another one. That I've tried, you know, like the box breath, just four in, four hold, four out, four hold.

Adeel [74:42]: Yeah, I've heard that too.

Makayla [74:44]: And if the only thing you have is yourself, you have no other tools, you always have your breath. And that doesn't mean it has to be perfect every time. But getting oxygen to your brain is helpful in general.

Adeel [74:59]: It's important, yes.

Makayla [75:01]: So, like, I know it sounds silly, but it's just like, hello, we need it. Because a lot of the time I hold my breath. So that was a big thing is, like, teaching myself how to breathe properly.

Adeel [75:14]: As part of the freeze response, maybe?

Makayla [75:16]: Yeah.

Adeel [75:16]: Yeah.

Makayla [75:17]: And then something random is tracking my cycle. And so for any, like, woman with or any... bleeding woman with uh misophonia like please track your cycle because that's when misophonia would get really bad for me is in that like pms time right before my period and it was like really scary a lot of the times like i would have panic attacks i would freak out i would see visions and like think that something was attacking me like it was it got really scary sometimes and so tracking that and then being able to be like, oh wow, like that person really just pissed me off. And then, or I'm feeling triggered, like, and then I'm like, oh, I'm about to start my period. And it just gives me grace. That's all. That really is all. And I think that's huge for us because a lot of the time we're beating ourselves up for being angry when really it's just our bodies happening. That's all.

Adeel [76:22]: Right. No, that's interesting. There, there was somebody that came on, um, some, some, not, not too long ago who definitely talked about how she's feels strongly connected to hormone, hormonal changes. Cause it's kind of coincided with, uh, um, in the miss when it's just coincided with, with, with times of her life, she's a little bit older when, uh, changed a lot. Oh yeah. Okay.

Makayla [76:45]: Yeah, I was really intrigued because I have always thought that it was connected to hormones. And then when I listened to her, I was like, yeah, that makes sense to me. Like we had a very similar situation. And so, or like real realizations, I guess. And so I thought that was interesting, but yeah, I just, who knows like where and what and why it is correlated, but yeah, I see a huge correlation within my life that it's just like, duh. Like, it's just so clear that it's connected. But then as far as the future, man, oh.

Adeel [77:23]: Yeah, you just summed it up in four words. No, I'm just kidding.

Makayla [77:27]: Oh, my gosh. Oh, yeah, me in four words, right. Man, I'm a dreamer. I really am a dreamer. I think – the world has a lot of potential right now.

Adeel [77:45]: Yeah, it can only get better, I hope.

Makayla [77:47]: We need to get better. We need to be more accessible and more conscious, more aware. I think a lot of our issues, I believe in my heart, have something to do with the greater good. And I also believe that as misophones, we have deep empathy. And so whatever is going on in the world, I believe it is affecting us. um on a conscious or subconscious level um because i feel like a huge empath and the other misophones i've heard on this podcast and a few that i've talked to we feel very deeply and so when the world is hurting so are we because we understand what that pain we understand what the pain truly feels like And especially when it's out of our control. So seeing fires and floods and, you know, all these terrible things happening, like somewhere our body knows. We might not know and we might not have that experience, but our body knows.

Adeel [78:55]: Yeah, that's a great point on a macro level. I've been thinking recently a lot about that. What are some advantages to misophonia? I'm sure you've heard the term HSP, the highly sensitive person. A lot of people have come on. I've been thinking about... how can that benefit us on a more of an, even more on a selfish level, like in our careers, like, you know, can that make us better managers or bosses? I think that's something we should, I don't really care. I don't just kind of celebrate in a way, like, or at least kind of highlight, Hey, maybe we can use our empathic abilities to kind of benefit the world, but also us personally, you know, in our, in our livelihoods that, that will, you know, have a ripple effect on people around us.

Makayla [79:43]: Exactly. And I truly like, I truly believe that we could be some sort of superheroes. Like, I know that sounds hard to believe, but I feel like we are quite intelligent. We've just been suffering. And so we don't know how to access it, a lot of us. But I genuinely feel like we are special humans because again, I had never heard of misophonia or anyone with misophonia other than my eighth grade teacher. But that's besides the point until I saw this podcast and to listen to you guys be like, oh, my gosh, we've all felt alone and we've all felt like the only one. And to me, that is weird or not weird, but like very interesting. And I know that a lot of people can, you know, oh, I feel like I'm the only one. This is on another level. I feel like like no one gets it until you get it. And so when we find each other, that's like beauty. And so I really do feel like we can like I'm again, like I'm not trying to start a cult or anything, but I really feel like we can band together and make this world a better place because we are more aware in a way that other people aren't.

Adeel [80:58]: No, you're right. Kind of that spark and connection that we feel when we find each other. If other people felt the same way around each other, I think that's an energy that we want to promote. But let's maybe end on that kind of positive note for now. Maybe we'll have other conversations in the future. But yeah, this was amazing. I had no problem letting it go over an hour because we covered a lot of amazing ground.

Makayla [81:23]: Yeah, there's a lot. Thank you.

Adeel [81:25]: I think people will be taking notes, I'm sure. Yeah, of course. No, this is hugely beneficial for me too. Yeah, Michaela, thanks again.

Makayla [81:35]: Well, thank you for everything that you do. Seriously, for this community, this is huge. We need it. This has brought me to so much understanding of my own brain and it's just amazing. So thank you because you are providing a service, an outlet, language to people who desperately need it. So thank you.

Adeel [81:58]: Thank you, Michaela. It's amazing how similar we all are in our experiences and our thoughts about misophonia a little more philosophically. If you liked this episode, don't forget to leave a quick review or just hit the five stars wherever you listen to this show. You can hit me up by email at hellotmissiphoneypodcast.com or go to the website, missiphoneypodcast.com. It's even easier to send a message on Instagram at Missiphoney Podcast. You can follow there or Facebook. And don't always forget Twitter at Missiphoney Show. support the show by visiting the patreon at patreon.com slash the symphony podcast the music as always is by mobi and until next week wishing you peace and quiet

Unknown Speaker [83:14]: Thank you.