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Adeel [0:01]: Welcome to the Misophonia Podcast. This is Season 7, Episode 29. My name is Adeel Ahmad, and I have Misophonia. This week, I'm bringing back a guest who has been one of the most popular guests on the show. Cresta is a trauma therapist and founder of the Misophonia Freedom Lab. If you recall, Cresta had misophonia and says she's been able to overcome it. We talk about that, of course, but we also focus on the idea of HSPs, that's highly sensitive people. There's an overlap between the two, and I think it's always illuminating to learn about HSP to inform misophonia and vice versa. Cresta also talks about some exciting projects, like the Misophonia Freedom Project. which is looking to gather data from people who say they've overcome their misophonia and try to find patterns and pathways that might be useful for others. After the show, let me know what you think. You can reach out by email at hellomisophoniapodcast.com or hit me up on Instagram or Facebook at Misophonia Podcast. By the way, please head over and leave a quick review or rating wherever you listen to the show. It really helps drive this up in the Sershok rhythm of the wind. new people are looking for Misophonia. A few of my usual announcements. Of course, thank you for the ongoing support by Patreon supporters. If you feel like contributing, you can read all about the various levels at patreon.com slash misophonia podcast. This episode is sponsored by the personal journaling app that I developed called BASAL. BASAL provides AI-powered insights into your journal entries and then guides you with new writing prompts based on those insights. You can explore many different therapy approaches and philosophies and modalities. It's available for iOS and Android. Check the show notes or go to hellobazel.com. And just a quick disclaimer, the microphone levels on my voice were a little bit hot again this episode, so apologies in advance. I tried to do my best to fix that, but in some places there might be a tiny bit of digital distortion. All right, now here's my conversation with Cresta. Cresta, welcome back to the podcast.
Kresta2024 [2:15]: Thank you. Glad to be here.
Adeel [2:17]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, I didn't mention, but your name's come up a couple times. Actually, more than a couple times, I think, people saying, oh, I remember that Crest episode. It was so cool. And so, yeah, we had two episodes, and they were very popular, apparently. Good. Yeah, just wanted to let you know that.
Kresta2024 [2:33]: Yay.
Adeel [2:34]: Let's start off. Maybe for the people who have not heard or know much about you, just want to give a quick rundown of where you are, what you do.
Kresta2024 [2:42]: Yeah, so I'm a trauma therapist. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. I was working as part of a group practice, but I have since moved into my own private practice now. So Compassionate Connections Trauma Therapy is my new private practice. But my Misophonia Freedom Lab website and project is still ongoing. And I came onto your program because... through my own work was able to find freedom from misophonia and that continues to be the case. I haven't had any kind of return of my triggers. However, it's been an interesting journey. I continue to grow and learn about myself. I'm going to be posting in my website some information on this topic we're going to be talking about today, namely highly sensitive people or HSP, which is such a great topic to dig into, but also getting to know my rage part. in some of my personal work. And I recently actually wrote a love letter to my rage part. It was very touching. I met that part in a training I was doing for IFS. And it was really moving. So I'm going to be sharing that story on my website.
Adeel [4:00]: Oh, yeah.
Kresta2024 [4:00]: I'd love to hear that.
Adeel [4:02]: Oh, read that. Yeah. Is it on your website yet? I'm just kind of curious.
Kresta2024 [4:05]: So not as of right now. Hopefully by the time this episode airs, I should have it up there. But... Yeah, my rage part, I found out, wasn't the problem. You know, we tend to think the rage is the problem, but my rage part was just trying to protect me from the pain of the sting. And really getting to see this part in a different light was amazing. So, you know, how many LSA was that? Two years now? Two years later, I'm still growing. I'm still learning about myself and also about misophonia. I've been working more and more with folks with misophonia. And so part of that journey has been, okay, so since the sting of misophonia is gone, what am I left with? And I noticed I was still noticing sounds. I was still kind of getting annoyed by my husband's eating behavior. Not the same way. There wasn't that sting of pain or like the, I needed to jump out of my scanner. Yeah. I didn't have to run to the other room, but it was like, oh, it's still kind of annoying me. And so what I've come to understand since then is that now that the misophonia is gone, what I'm left with is HSP. I am still HSP and that and we'll talk about that today because it is a biological trait, which means it's not going to go away with therapy. But since taking a deeper dive into this topic and sharing it, not only with my Misophonia clients, but also with my other clients, everyone's resonating with it. And there's a reason why most of my clients are also HSPs to go into that. But it's been so normalizing. self-affirming for people. So while we're going to talk about this topic today, it's not going to be the cure for misophonia, but I do believe that it's important information that we can incorporate in our own lives and our self-care and in our conversations and in our own self-advocacy that I think can make life a whole lot easier for us. So.
Adeel [6:05]: Yeah, I love talking about HSP. Yeah, let's get into it. I mean, yeah, it may not be, I mean, exactly. But it's funny, but it's so much, so many of us have this in common. And yeah, it's very much a relevant, yeah, relevant topic. I guess, yeah, what have you learned? And you mentioned it was like, you said it was biological. So it sounds like you've got some... new learnings and research that you've done. I'd love to hear about what you, what you know, what it just beats obviously more than just a quiz you take and find out something about yourself.
Kresta2024 [6:35]: Correct. Correct. Yeah. So most of my information is coming from Elaine Aaron, Dr. Elaine Aaron. She has a book that actually it's in its 25th anniversary edition. So her work and her research on this topic has been around for decades. And what she has found through her research is that approximately 20% of the population qualify as HSP or highly sensitive. And this is a biological trait, meaning it's with us when we're born. Like I said before, it's not going to go with therapy. And there's a really good reason that 20% of the population has this trait. And if you think about other mammal species, they need parts of their population to be on alert for danger. They need to be sensitive to whatever alerts them to need, whether it's sound, whether it's vibrations, whether it's smell. They need to be alert to that so that they can warn the rest of the colony. You know, like meerkats, right? You've seen meerkats. Those little guys sticking their heads up out of the ground. And if they sense danger, they notify the rest of the colony so that they can get to safety. So, you know, we are also mammals and our DNA has not changed that much over the past 50,000 years. So, you know, this is a really important segment of the population if you understand it. And I really, truly believe that HSPs have a whole lot to offer the world. We really need HSPs right now. There's so much conflict energy going around. But yeah, so and then interestingly, also in the book, Elaine mentions that another sort of 20% of the population is also sensitive, but maybe not to the same degree. which i think goes a long way as far as you know many misophones will say you know i tell people about how i'm sensitive to these sounds or they trigger me and then someone without misophonia will say oh yeah those sounds really bother me too i get it we're like no you don't You really don't. You're not feeling the pain, right? But it does go a long way to explain that there are other people out there in the world who are, you know, bothered by typical misophonia sounds. It's just that for us as a misophone, it just affects us that much more. It's just that next level. So... yeah so learning learning about this trait um can help us not only understand our own reactions but can help us um identify needed boundaries it gives us language to ask for those boundaries to get our needs met and to just kind of feel a little more like oh i make sense now you know that that's the main thing i when i started reading the hs feels like oh i make sense now yeah yeah
Adeel [9:31]: Yeah, it's interesting that you say that's, you know, biological, we need it. Obviously, yeah, I totally agree. Like, as we're just kind of animals that have evolved and, you know, everyone has different traits to kind of serve different roles. I'm just, when I hear that, I'm just so surprised that if it's so innate that it's such a surprise to people that we would need it, that when they hear about, oh, somebody's sensitive to sound or something else, that it's such a shock. Is that... I was wondering, is that a mark or indication of how homogenized our society is, that we all have to act a certain way and we've kind of lost our ability to see differences that are actually necessary for us as a species?
Kresta2024 [10:14]: Yeah, and so one of the things Elaine talks about in the book is that certain cultures actually value traits of the HSP more. So she gives the example of China. Apparently in China, the more sort of, you know, and there is a bit of a misnomer that HSPs are all introverts. We're not. Some of us are, but not all of us are. The more maybe what we would call introverted sort of traits are more highly valued traits. um apparently in china um and i haven't researched others i'm sure there's other cultures um i'm thinking specifically of maybe the the japanese culture there's such a a high value placed on courtesy and thoughtfulness and those are very hsp qualities So, um, different cultures value HSP more. It just happens to be here in the West, in the United States. We don't.
Adeel [11:10]: Yeah.
Kresta2024 [11:10]: Um, our society, I think our, and I've seen over the time, you know, I've been on this earth, which is coming up on almost 50 years. Oh my goodness. I'm dating myself, but, um.
Adeel [11:19]: Same, same.
Kresta2024 [11:22]: I feel that at least in the Western world, it's becoming less and less friendly for HSPs. It's kind of, it's heartbreaking. And one of the things that, you know, Elaine talks about is traditionally, like through history, HSPs have usually been the wise counsel. So she talks about sort of the the non HSPs are the ones who kind of jump into action. So like kind of the warrior kings. But warrior kings always had wise counsels. A lot of them were, you know, clergy or religious or spiritual type of population. But they are usually well respected because of their depth of knowledge, because of their awareness. of people and the needs of people. So a wise king, even though he may not be HSP, would, if he wanted to be a good king, listen to his council that was considering the welfare of the people, what was needed and would take that council. So there's a really important role we have to play in society. Not that it's necessarily better than or like, you know, you know, we're supposed to put ourselves above. But I think at least in the Western culture, HSPs get a bad rap. So I at least want to like boost some self-esteem of folks out there who might be thinking that this HSP trade is some sort of handicap. And actually, I'm saying that word because the big book of AA, and I've shared here that I'm sober coming up on 20, oh, just past 24 years sober, actually. 24 years sober. And there is a line in the big book that says, you know, we're overly sensitive and it's a handicap. And there's a reason why a lot of alcoholics are HSPs, which we'll get into that. But it can be difficult to live with, especially if we're highly sensitive to stimulus, which we'll get into. But there's so many good things about it. So I want us to focus on the good stuff here.
Adeel [13:33]: Yeah, yeah, no, let's get into that. So it sounds like, yeah, I wanted to get a check in on your misophonia. Sounds like that's still at bay. And so I guess how did you, I guess, how did you come to the realization that your HSP is kind of like not going anywhere? And kind of how does that play out?
Kresta2024 [13:54]: well okay so one one of the things one of the qualities of an hsp is that we're really good at reading our environment and the uh and the emotional state of people around us And I've always kind of been good at that. You know, we, we tend to, we are literal sponges. So we've been, and I talked about this in my last podcast with you, how I was conceptualizing misophonia is like just this absorption of negative energy. Well, you know, being an HSP from the time we're born, we are absorbing our environment, whether If the environment is one of positive or balanced sort of energy and our experience is supported and reflected, like we can grow up and be very functional, high functioning and appreciate our qualities. But if we're growing up in an environment that is what I would call anti-HSP. um where the environment is very noisy or overwhelming or your sensitivities are are put down or you know stop being so sensitive or um you know and we we we take on shame you know something about me is wrong it could be such a painful experience um so that is one of the qualities that hsps have or just these sponges we are really good at reading the environment we're really good at reading emotional states to an extent where we can actually take on someone else's emotions and it's almost like we become them for a moment. We can really imagine ourselves in the other person's shoes. And I've always identified with being able to do that. And I've actually had to work to have really good boundaries around that when it comes to my working with trauma. Um, so that's, that's one.
Adeel [15:46]: Yeah. That's gotta be interesting when you're right. If you're, if your entire profession is to be talking to people and going, um, dealing with trauma to avoid getting too, I guess, I don't know, invested or in their shoes.
Kresta2024 [16:00]: Yeah. And for me, it's kind of challenging. Yeah, for me, it was parts work oriented. Like whenever I was finding myself sort of struggling with holding my client's experiences, I would go to the parts of me being affected and sure enough found younger parts that felt that they need to either take on someone's pain or imagine themselves in the other person's experience. And I had to work with those parts to let them know, like, you don't have to do that. It's okay. We can still help the person. Like, we don't have to go that far. It's actually not doing us any good, and it's not doing them any good, right? So that's some of the boundary work that I've continued to do with myself. So that's one quality of an HSP that we hear a lot about. The other quality is depth of processing. So HSPs tend to really go deep. researching if there's a topic they're really passionate about their research it they'll study the history behind it they'll um have a current hsp client who um is was really just you know we see both sides of the story so for example um the conflict in the middle east she was really struggling with like I don't know, I see both sides and it's, you know, I don't know which side to come up on. And we were just like, yeah, you're digging deep. You see both sides. You feel the pain of both sides. And it's really okay that you don't have an answer. Because she had parts that felt like she had to have some kind of answer or come to some kind of conclusion. She just couldn't. And I'm like, that's okay. It's okay that you can't. This is your nature to, you're caring about people, you're feeling their pain, and you're going really deep into seeing both sides, both arguments. And once she was able to see that, it was like, okay, it's okay that I don't have an answer. This is just what I do. And she was able to relax around it. it a little bit more. The other sort of thing, and this is where it really hit me, is that a lot of HSPs are really deeply moved by music or the arts. And I have had several experiences throughout my life where for whatever reason, a piece of music, I'll hear a piece of music and it just hits me. And I just, usually how it manifests is I start crying. I just, oh, it's like, oh my, it just kind of hits me in my heart, my core. There's just something that so resonates with me. And my favorite example is I went years ago, I went to see the Lion King in a performance live. And if you've ever been to that one.
Adeel [18:40]: I'm going in a few months actually.
Kresta2024 [18:42]: Oh my goodness. Okay. Well, if they still do it the way they did it when I saw it, the opening scene is they start, you know, the circle of life song and they have the puppets or, you know, the actors coming through with the puppets can't come through the audience. And I don't really, I'm not a particular, I'm not a huge fan of the song itself, The Circle of Life, but you add in that visual. And I mean, I had the giant giraffe puppet like walk right past me. And I was just surrounded by this experience. And I was so moved. I just burst into tears. I was just so moved by it. And there's been several instances. where i'm just completely moved um by music by art and it's what moves me is the authenticity this sort of universal feeling into you know i mean the message the circle of life or this huge universal hopeful theme um so the other thing that resonates with hsp is just authenticity authenticity and integrity is really important to us so whenever we feel something that's just really hits us as being really authentic we're awfully often deeply moved by it um and another i was pondering this is what there's a show on um i think it's on hbo or max i guess it is right now called the great british pottery throwdown And, you know, one of their competition shows was for pottery. And one of the judges is an older gentleman. He's a master potter and he's one of the main judges. He is a total HSP because people would bring up their finished products and he would, you could tell when he was genuinely moved because he would start crying. And I remember first seeing that show and going like, okay, we have a grown adult judge who's crying on television. This would not happen in the United States, but it's happening on British television. Thank goodness. And what was so cool about it was that the contestants started to notice that they knew their work was good when it moved him to tears. Because he would just go on about like, you know, this is just such your authentic self and it's beautiful work. And he would just, he'd burst into tears and he couldn't help himself. HSP.
Adeel [20:56]: Yeah, I definitely feel that with music. And if it's not like in tears, I'm just obsessed. Like the song won't leave my head. And it won't just leave my head because it's catchy. There's an entire mood that in my whole body is kind of feeling for like, you know, hours. Yeah. Actually, I'm glad you said authenticity because that's something that I've tried to bring up, especially in the context of how Gabor Mate talks about authenticity. Because I feel like when I was speaking to my IFS therapist and doing Pirates work, we noticed that in my childhood, it was like the periods where authenticity was kind of broken when I had to kind of like... couldn't be myself, whether it's, like, things I was pursuing, you know, in terms of interests and passions and creativity. When those things were kind of, like, broken, when I felt kind of, like, smothered, or those things had to, like, smother those, those are the kind of periods and the people that were causing the misophonia for me. And so, I don't know, this is just kind of an interesting... um, thing when I think about it. And that, that actually does make me, that, that does kind of like, um, bubble up a lot of emotions when I start to think about that. So I think, I don't know, I think there's something there, not just with HSP, but also in like misophonia proper.
Kresta2024 [22:19]: Yes, absolutely. And yeah, that authenticity piece is so important and it touches on the sort of the difference between a disempowered HSP versus an empowered HSP. And, you know, oftentimes with misophonia, we sort of organically know that we just, we learn with some heartbreak, at least for me, that I just can't be in any environment I want to be in. My system just has certain needs. If they're not met, it's torture. And if they're met, I can thrive. I can thrive. And it feels amazing. And so another quality of HSP is emotional responsiveness and reactivity. So we feel emotions really strongly. That includes the positive emotions and the negative emotions. So like when you said with the music, like you hear a particular music and it just resonates. It's not that you just like the music. It hits your body. It resonates in your whole body.
Adeel [23:26]: Yeah. And almost the meaning of the words doesn't matter. It's like a mood board, like on steroids kind of thing, you know, that I feel. Yeah.
Kresta2024 [23:32]: So, yeah. Yeah, we're so affected by it. And so if we're aware of that, we can be very careful and picky about what we're exposing ourselves to. Like that is important because we can get so much from being exposed to positive and we can also be really affected by negative. So if I understand that, I can account for that and watch for it because it can really kind of sneak up on me as to where, especially if I'm around a lot of negativity, I can get really impacted and drained. Usually what I experience for HSP is like we had overstimulated and we shut down.
Adeel [24:12]: Right. Can you speak to how that maybe evolves over time? Because you know how misophonia, people get triggered by more things later. Even HSP, I feel like maybe there's some things that might be extra sensitive to now that it wasn't a while ago. And, you know, people like family members will sometimes be like, you know, why are you suddenly more sensitive to the sound or this and that? You say we're kind of born with it, but does it also evolve kind of during our lifetimes?
Kresta2024 [24:43]: I believe so. And part of that is the more, so it's interesting. When we work our, so if we're like, we're growing up in an environment that's very anti-HSP, let's say, parts of us will learn to defend ourselves in whatever way is available to us. So if we're young children, one way to defend ourselves might be to dissociate. Mm-hmm. I've been watching the Ted Lasso episodes and realizing we don't see a lot of, I think, examples of male HSP, but I realized as I was re-watching Ted Lasso, there's actually all those guys there.
Adeel [25:28]: Men are not HSP. We're strong. There's nothing wrong with us.
Kresta2024 [25:31]: right but you've got here you've got coach coach lasso is definitely hsp um because his his whole mission is authenticity and creating like making he wants his guys to become the best version of themselves such an hsp quality right he could really and you see it and he could care less about winning he just wants his guys to become the best people they can um but uh uh kent roy kent right totally just p but you see his defensiveness that he learned because i'm sure his sensitivity was not um supported is to be angry and to cuss a lot right so here's this defensive mechanism to hide behind, really, to hide the sensitivities behind. So we learn these defense mechanisms from an early age. And in a lot of ways, they can serve us. If we're doing our own work and we start letting go of those defenses, then I have found for myself that I am becoming more aware of my sensitivities. And I don't know that it's not like I'm developing more sensitivities. I think it's more that I'm more aware of them And I'm acknowledging them and realizing that I need to do something about it because my previous ways of dealing with it were not working for me. At least not anymore. So connecting a bit to the misophonia experience, right? So a lot of HSPs have sensory sensitivities. And that's going to range and vary from person to person. A lot of these traits, no one's going to have all these traits. We may not share all these traits, but we, and Elaine Aaron has a questionnaire, like a self-question, like quiz that you can take. It's not a complete quiz. I think it's like 25 years old, so it could probably be updated. But one of the common things of HSP is just sensory, just very sensitive to sensory things. And so, for example, so my sensitivity seems to be hearing. I also have, I've noticed a sensitivity to food. I've always had it, but. So like I have to really check in with myself or like what food sounds good. And if it doesn't sound good, like I can't eat it.
Adeel [27:50]: It's not, it sounds good as in not just the, the, the actual auditory sound, but like the, the, what, what, like whatever.
Kresta2024 [27:59]: Yeah. If I think about eating it, um, yeah. And it has nothing like I like spicy food. It has nothing to do with like I'm sensitive to spicy or and so You know, I don't have a textural thing like an RFID RFID is a textural sensitivity I don't have any of that, but I wake up in the morning What do I want for breakfast and I can think of all the various things and one thing will stand out is like oh That's what I want to eat today. And if I try to force myself to eat something else, I just sometimes just can't It's very it's very I've always been that way. It's very weird um so those are some of my sensory things but like my husband had who's also hsv has a very um attuned sense of smell he smells things that i just i don't i so i was like are you sure that's even there i think you're imagining it right we can we can have different sensitivities so any sort of um any of our senses can be kind of turned up to 11 and it it's it's right in line with um what i'm hearing from other misophones as far as they're identifying with um if not a full misophonia response through different sensory things i mean we all know about the mesokinesia right being triggered by sight um but then there's others who are reporting getting triggered by a taste or a smell or even a touch, and those all fall in line with an HSP identity. A lot of people can remember being very young and not wanting to wear anything too itchy or scratchy or stiff. We might find ourselves being really sort of affected by smell. So I personally can't stand it when someone's wearing a lot of perfume. It's almost like an assault, like it just hits you in the face, right? It's just so rude. This is very misophonic, right?
Adeel [29:46]: It's like me wearing stiff itchy clothes. It's like an assault on my body. Yes.
Kresta2024 [29:52]: I can see that. Yes. And so that is the quality of like when we are sensitive, it's not just that we don't like it. It literally feels like an assault.
Adeel [30:03]: Yeah, I'm sorry to cut you off, but yeah, there are certain fabrics, like, you know, those kind of wool sweaters. I probably get used to it. I don't know. There's some that it just feels like I'm being hijacked. My mind is being hijacked, similar to the misophonia emotion. So, yeah. And I've said before, I mean, that's probably like a broken record, especially more lately, that I feel like, you know, this... this condition is more than just about sound. And so, you know, misophonia is one manifestation of what's going on. And it doesn't relate to HSP, I think, a lot. And so I think this probably, very likely, this might all be redefined in the years ahead to take into account a lot of the things you're talking about.
Kresta2024 [30:51]: Yes, absolutely. I think we're really connecting some dots. There's a lot of crossover with a couple different... Not modalities, but like neurology. And I think there's, you know, trying to do my part here, connecting these dots so we can get people more help. But I thought I would read. So this page in Eileen Allen's book, I think, really speaks to the misophonia experience. So read it here. It says. One general rule is that when we have no control over stimulation, it is more upsetting, even more so if we feel we are someone's victim. While music played by ourselves may be pleasant, heard from the neighbor's stereo, it can be annoying. And if we have previously asked them to turn it down, it becomes a hostile invasion.
Adeel [31:46]: An act of war.
Kresta2024 [31:50]: Yeah. And a lot of people sort of describing their experience of misophonia is like, I feel like I'm getting attacked.
Adeel [31:57]: Right.
Kresta2024 [31:58]: And that speaks to another quality of HSP is that we're more sensitive to the experience of pain. Not only our own pain, but also other people's pain. So that's the emotional awareness, right? We're just very sensitive to other people's pain and we have stronger reactions to our own pain.
Adeel [32:20]: Gotcha. Yep.
Kresta2024 [32:21]: And it gets compounded if we think that the person or thing causing the pain is doing it on purpose because then it's the added like you're, you know, don't you see? Don't you see how rude you're being? Don't you see how disruptive you're being? Don't you see how destructive you're being? Because we think that everyone else sees the world how we do. You know, how could these people not be aware of what they're in? Unfortunately. A non-HSP just really isn't aware. They're just really not. It's really hard for us to understand that because we tend to relate to others. We think that they think how we think and we feel they feel how we feel and it's not the case.
Adeel [33:00]: Is there a way that we can kind of, I'm speaking, I guess, thinking more of the HSP side that we can, I don't know, exercises or things we can tell ourselves to, you know, if this is a trait to kind of help protect the tribe or society, is there something we can tell ourselves to kind of like reassure ourselves that the danger that we perceive as a danger is not really a danger. And so maybe in that way can kind of like begin the process of de-angering in that moment.
Kresta2024 [33:29]: Yeah, and I think this is what a lot of the cognitive behavioral therapies work on, is like our thought around, especially if we're getting triggered, it's one of the first things that gets suggested, which is, you know, trying, helping your brain sort of switch to the thought of like, this person isn't doing it on purpose. They're not doing anything wrong. Um, because a lot of our, you know, sort of outrage is because we think someone's doing it on purpose or hurting us on purpose. And can't they see, you know, that's why we mimic. We are like, well, I, you know, they didn't realize how annoying their lip smacking was. So I did it right back at them and they were completely oblivious. Oh my God.
Adeel [34:10]: Yeah. Yeah.
Kresta2024 [34:12]: Right. And if we come to understand like, oh, okay, well, I'm an HSP. So yeah, I'm going to be a lot more sensitive to this kind of stuff than the other person might not be. And it doesn't make them wrong. It doesn't make me wrong. This is just how I react. What do I need to do to take care of myself right now? Do I need to leave the environment? Do I need to speak up if that's possible? Do I need to put in headphones? Switching it from where I'm not a victim of my environment to what can I do to feel empowered. And, and I will admit, especially if, you know, young people with misophonia where there isn't a whole lot of advocacy in the home, that's a really tough thing to, to achieve. But if you, you know, have the power to do that, then it's kind of what I'm working with some younger misophones right now who are still connected with their family, living in family homes. and really helping them identify the boundaries, how to ask for boundaries, how to explain to the parents why they're needing what they're needing. And so far the parents have been, you know, they're non-HSP parents. So they just, it's a complete, they just don't understand their child. And when I explain it to them, this is a biological trait. It's not a bad thing. There's a lot of really good qualities about it. They're like, oh, okay. So she needs this. Oh, great. And then, oh, okay. She asked for a boundary, voiced a boundary. We had no idea she needed that. We're happy to give that to her if she needs it. So another way I think we can incorporate this information with dealing with misophonia, not only individually, but within families.
Adeel [36:04]: Yeah, I guess it's kind of give and take. I ask, like, anything we can tell ourselves to kind of, like, reassure ourselves it's not a threat. That works to a certain degree, but if this is, in fact, a deeper, more... lizard brain kind of meerkat uh in biological trait then it's harder to kind of like cognitively knock yourself you know cognitively um deal with it and so um needs to be kind of a give or take with the environment around you whether that's the you know parents whoever whoever they're whoever is there
Kresta2024 [36:38]: yeah and i think so with misophonia right when we're stripped when we're triggered it's our fight and flight response so from an auto not automa autonomic autonomic nervous system perspective it's an automatic response we don't have our control over our response and we're also that's that's the over stimulation that hsp is used so we're okay here we are overstimulated In that instance, we need to do what we need to do to let our nervous system calm down again. And so that oftentimes means needing to leave the environment so I can take a breath, my body can relax. Because we can't talk ourselves down from activation when we're in fight and flight. And I get frustrated with treatments that say, oh, when you're super activated, you should just try to stay with it or try to test. talk yourself out of it there is a certain point where it's just like just nervous system wise that's just not possible that's why i think having this information about needed boundaries and feeling into and discovering what those boundaries are for you it's preemptive it's like okay i'm gonna see that i'm gonna be over stimulated in this environment what can i do to reduce that stimulation or take care of myself or have an exit plan if I do find myself too stimulated. That way it never gets to the point of getting so activated, right? Yeah, because, you know, so the sort of talking ourselves down from there's a danger or, you know, I would say what really stuck out for me with my misophonia is the experience of pain. I didn't really understand it, but that, and that's what, you know, I was talking about the love letter to my rage. My rage was trying to protect me from this experience of pain that was so intense and so uncomfortable. And so I can use that language with the people around me who are non-HSPs. to help them understand that the reason i'm asking for my environment to be this way is not because this is just a preference of mine and i'm being picky it's because if i don't have it this way it's actually painful and there's a really edifying uh podcast episode i found there's a couple they do a couple's podcast and the wife is hsp and the husband is not And they were discussing how this was a real source of contention in their relationship until the wife discovered and started to understand her HSP. And it gave them language to talk about their experiences. And one of the things that was so great that the husband said was, you know, I didn't realize how uncomfortable you were in certain situations and that it's not that you were asking for the environment to be a certain way because you just that was your preference or that you're trying to be controlling. is because if it wasn't that way, you were miserable. And she was like, yeah, it really, like, if it wasn't a certain, like, if this piece wasn't there, I had a horrible time. I was miserable. I didn't want to be there. It's very, very extreme. So, and I think that goes directly to, you know, if you're living with a misophone or trying to support a misophone, you know, understanding that we're asking, it's not, sorry, thinking about the... the uh the mirror neuron um study where at the end i was reading through it and at the end they're like one of the reasons why perhaps one of the reasons why you know mesophones are so angry is because their goals are being interfered i'm like what There's more than one reason why you'd be angry. And the most obvious one is I'm being hurt. Like, ouch, this hurts. Stop. But so it's not that we're trying to control. We are literally being tortured in certain environments. So I think having that language and helping the non-HSPs understand this trait, even if they don't have it themselves, I think it can really go a long way with just having more peace in the household, more peace between couples, children, and their parents. So, oh, and... just since I mentioned that mirror neuron study. So this is the other thing that sparked my, when I started looking into HSP. So they have done studies with HSP brains, the same area of the brains that have more myelination and more connections that, you know, we read about with and see in the misophonia experience, same area of the brain.
Adeel [41:22]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kresta2024 [41:23]: Makes sense. Yep. The same area of the brain is getting triggered as an HSP as it is in a misophonia trigger. So lots and lots of connections here.
Adeel [41:33]: Yeah. And you said, going back to something you said about IFS, you found the rage part. you know, the, I guess the, when I read about IFS and I tried to do IFS, it didn't get, I mean, it helped in a number of ways to kind of like learn and process and connect dots from my past in general, but didn't yet to get to kind of like cracking the misophonia nut. But, you know, the, I guess the goal, you know, the goal of iOS is at least how it's presented is like, you find that rage, like a protector, like you found your rage part and you kind of talk to it and convince it that the self is can now be in control and You try to get to your exile and kind of relieve the Exxon and your hunky-dory, but That's my interpretation and that could be wrong. But did you so sounds like you were still kind of like You're communicating with your exile. You're pretty good. Not me. So you're your protector It hasn't quite kind of like been what it's called unburdened yet. I
Kresta2024 [42:40]: or so yeah well that's what when i when i post my love letter i i speak to the unburdening process because that that was the work i did um and it's helped you know i was saying before how you know maybe siphonia was gone but my my husband was still bothering me right right Um, and part of that was because he was actually reminded. So this is the, the IFS sort of deeper work part that is worth it. Because when I noticed that response, um, to my husband, instead of going like, oh, he should go to the other room or that sort of thing. I was like, okay, who is he reminding me of right now? And I thought it, I was like, kind of took a moment and I suddenly was like, oh, he's reminding me of my stepdad. And my stepdad was my original trigger person. Um, and he was a very kind person, but he had, um, his chewing behavior was my first major trigger behavior. And I hadn't really done a lot of work around him with my parts work. So, um, I did, I took that to my therapist and I said, this is what I noticed. And we did some work around it. And, and sure enough, there is something that was released. Um, it's a longer story, but, uh, it really helped because after that I wasn't as bothered by my husband's eating behavior. Um, Um, but what was interesting with my, um, rage part is that at first it'd be when I, you know, I have a very visual experience when I do IFS. And so when I first found this part, it was like a soldier. It was dressed in camo. It had a gun and it was like perched on a, like a hill overlooking this hill. And, you know, he, he kind of hit that part is that he, and he, he looked at me and he kind of gave me this nod like, Hey, what's up? So he was like, I got your back, right? I'm like, wow. And so I kind of stood next to him and I was like, what are you looking for? And I realized he was looking for the next attack. And I said, wow, okay. Well, is there any sign of danger? Is anything coming over the hill? And that helped that part go like, oh, actually, no. There hasn't been for a while. I'm like, I wonder, do you feel like you can maybe relax a little bit? And immediately, like a little, not a little, it was like a comfy sort of lounger chair popped in. And he was able to take a seat. lit up a cigar. I don't smoke cigars. My part does apparently. And he was just like, he was able to sit down and he was still like, yeah, I got you. I got you. But he was smoking the cigar. I went back later with my therapist's help and I was able to acknowledge that part for what it was doing. I was like, I see how hard you've been working this whole time. And that part just started to break down and cry. And it expressed to me that I was working so hard trying to protect you and nothing I did worked. And I could feel this part's feeling of hopelessness and helplessness because I tried to speak up for you, but other parts came in and shut me up. I, you know, I was trying to get you away from the pain and the danger and you couldn't get away. And I was trying so hard to help you. And I just... felt like my hands were being tied behind my back and i couldn't do what i wanted to do i was just like oh my gosh how that's i just felt the the pain of that experience and resonated with this part and that part just cried and cried and as that part cried he shrunk down into about a nine-year-old boy in my arms. I gave him a big hug and he shrunk down in my arms. And I looked at him and he looked at me, he still had tears in his eyes. And I was like, thank you for all the work you did, but it's okay. I'm here now. You don't have to fight for me. How about we, we were still fighting. How about we work on this together? And he just kind of wiped the tears away. He was like, yeah, I like that. So now he knows he's not alone. He knows his work was appreciated. And then he looked up and he's like, can I go play basketball now? I was like, yeah, well, no, he'd rather he, cause he went from the adult. He went from the adult. I called him the veteran. He was like this veteran of this old war. um yeah lost the stogie uh shrunk down to a nine-year-old boy and then he wanted to play basketball and i'm like yeah go you know so this happens sometimes you dress the parts uh issues are they unburdened and they want to go play so yeah go play and i'm not even that big a basketball fan but a part of me is So that's kind of, yeah, that was, I didn't mean to tell that whole story, but that's kind of how it went. So that's a, that's a, you know, a sample of a, an unburdening. A lot of times when our parts unburden and that comes from witnessing the parts, what the part is carrying. So in this case, this part was carrying the extreme pain of the hopeless and powerlessness that he was feeling as he was trying to help me. doing this job to protect me um and when i let him know like you don't have to do that anymore i'm here and you know you're not alone he was able to shrink down to his younger self and just be himself now he can be this playful little boy and go go have you know play sports um yeah
Adeel [48:04]: Yeah, no, that's fascinating. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, I mean, I had a kind of a similar kind of flow experience with when I was doing parts work as well. It's really, yeah, it's really powerful. And has that kind of really helped your, I guess this is relatively recent, right? Since we've talked, has that kind of, have you noticed it really help your, are you still going on rage drives? I kind of like talk about rage drives too. It's kind of a fun thing to do.
Kresta2024 [48:28]: Yeah, I haven't done a rage drive in a while. I'm definitely more comfortable with my anger, which I think is a good thing.
Adeel [48:36]: What do you mean comfortable with your anger? Yeah, double click on that a little bit. I hate the term double click, but maybe talk about that a bit more.
Kresta2024 [48:44]: Yes. So I always love working with people on getting, especially women, and majority of my clients are women, getting in relationship to their anger. Because our anger is a part of us getting our attention, letting us know that something's not right and that we need to set a boundary. And so often we're told, especially as women, it's not okay for you to be angry.
Adeel [49:12]: That's not allowed. Yeah, women are not allowed to be angry. It must be even more repressed than us, than men.
Kresta2024 [49:18]: Yeah, and it can be scary because anger is powerful. Anger is powerful. And so even if we're aware of our anger, a lot of times we have parts that have learned, oh, this is too powerful. If anger is allowed to speak its truth, we won't have friends or we'll get in trouble or we might even get hit, right? So there's a real danger in letting that part speak up. But getting in relationship with that anger is so important because that part is letting us know that something isn't right. And because it is so powerful, it also gives us the power to stand up for ourselves. It gives us the strength to stand up for ourselves. So when I say I'm much more comfortable with my anger, I feel it's like it's not in control of me. It's like a friend. It's like, OK, I'm feeling angry about this. Yeah. OK. What do I need to do here? Is there something I need to do? And so it's such an important part to tune into. In a sense, relieving that rage part, what I've noticed is that I don't have as much sort of responsiveness or reactiveness, right? Response is I can actually respond to something. Reaction is I'm just reacting. I don't have as much reaction. um around things that make me angry there's more clarity i'm aware of my anger and what it's trying to tell me and i can speak up for it i can speak up for that part and not have it completely overtake me um and there's also this sort of uh vibrancy around what i'm standing for what i'm taking a stand for so what i'm passionate about and this is such an hsp thing like um what am I feeling integrity about? What is resonating with me and authentically important to me? There's just so much more energy and empowerment around taking a stand for that kind of stuff.
Adeel [51:18]: Do you mean like which little battles are worth even fighting for or even getting upset about?
Kresta2024 [51:26]: Yeah, that's funny. That has been part of my work. Because I'll give you, this is a very HSP thing. So HSPs are usually very, a lot of us are rule followers. A lot of us are people pleasers. And rule following goes along with the integrity piece and keeping law and order and everything in its place and waiting your turn. Those things can be very important to us. But I have a really hard time. My son is six. He's in kindergarten. And whenever I drop him off at school or pick him up at school, there's oftentimes parents who will park right in front of the fire hydrant in a red zone. And it just drives me bananas. Yeah.
Adeel [52:08]: I'm feeling my blood pressure rise right now.
Kresta2024 [52:14]: Yes. And if anyone else listening to this is like so enraged by those sort of little injustices.
Adeel [52:18]: Disclaimer at the beginning of this podcast.
Kresta2024 [52:22]: Right. And this is the integrity piece is like, what are you teaching your children? Right. It just all comes up. And that it's great. Just a very familiar feeling. And I've really had to work with and this is where, you know, Elaine Allen in her book has a few things that she says HSPs really need to thrive in this world that can feel so overwhelming and maybe even scary or violent, intrusive. But one of the things I've been really working on is my connection to spirit because I've realized that if I let the sort of temptation to get sucked into that lower energy rage response to that person's... uh actions is i feel it it resonates all within my body it ruins my day like i feel the energy like going rolling through my body when i let that anger you know come because i'm not saying it i'm tempted to like what the hell are you thinking like what if my wants to speak up but i know it's not going to help anything it's probably not going to change anything and so what i've sort of come to realize through sort of tapping into more spiritual connections is that you know what that somewhere along the line, their cosmic karma, whatever, they're going to learn their lesson when they need to. And I kind of feel sorry for them that they're so oblivious. That's their, that's kind of like what I tell myself. Um, recently it has happened. This was just a few days ago. A mom parts.
Adeel [53:56]: Okay. I can tell another story. I'm going to get twice as it.
Kresta2024 [54:00]: Well, you know, she was in a very expensive car, which in my area, it always seems to get these complete... That doesn't help my rage. Right, right. Thank you for validating my point of view on this. So she gets out of her car looking at her phone, just glued to her phone. She walks to pick up her child, complete on the phone. I got in my car. I was like, her karmic, you know, she's going to learn the lesson somehow. I don't have to do it. It's not my job to do it. And it's so sad. She's like, obviously, and she's walking out with her kid still on the phone. I was like, oh. how, how unfortunate that, you know, here she is picking up her kid and here's a chance to like, really kind of, how was your day and connect with her child and she's completely missing it. And so instead of getting angry about it, I kind of look at, okay, it's not my job to teach this person this, this lesson she could be learning. And I, so I'm kind of, um, taken as like, it's, it's, it's sad. It's sad. She seems to be oblivious to this and, and, um, you know, maybe one day something will wake her up. So I've kind of given up on my,
Adeel [55:10]: crusade on you know teaching how to behave better be better right i i can let that go um it is a work in progress however no that's fascinating and a couple things i'll say there is yeah i think i used to try the karma thing but then that that wasn't working at least for me but what i what i what i try to i think one thing i try to do now is and i posted on instagram i try to think of the term conservation of energy and it goes back to like Um, actually does kind of go back to authenticity where I'm like, I like you, you just said like it, it can ruin your day. Like one, the stupid, um, you know, fire hydrant woman phone person can like, well, can completely like throw off my day, especially if I, God forbid, actually tried to maybe say something. Uh, cause that, cause as an HSP, I will like feel that, um, the anger and a little bit of the, maybe the guilt, uh, for the rest of the day. So I try to tell myself, okay, i need i have like i don't have things i want to write or music i want to make or something like that later today i don't want to i don't want to say anything now uh just almost selfishly selfishly to keep that energy for later and so that's kind of like worked a little bit for me where i can kind of like turn that negative energy into either something positive or just kind of like
Kresta2024 [56:28]: delay it so that i don't you know ruin my uh you know what i want to work on later so i love that and it'll be interesting to see how your listeners respond to this sort of reflection about that integrity piece and this authenticity piece about hsp because i've heard you talk to others about how you know going to like the misophonia conventions and how nice everyone is And that is one of the qualities of HSP is we're generally very considerate of others. We know intuitively when someone's uncomfortable and we understand what they would need to feel more comfortable. And we'll usually just jump into action around that if we can. And it can be really painful if the people around us aren't responding in the same way. It can be painful if we're seeing the world just completely. There's so much in politics right now that is upsetting for HSPs.
Adeel [57:24]: Am I wrong? I didn't notice.
Kresta2024 [57:27]: Yeah, just complete disregard for other people's pain. And so a lot of HSPs are really struggling right now. But that means a lot of us are waking up. We're waking up and the pain is actually waking us up. We can't ignore it anymore. And so that's why I have a lot of hope. Because, again, the world needs more HSPs. We are the wise council. And we see it in the corporate world, right? The corporate focus on profit only and not on people. If they had more HSPs on their boards, they'd be like, hey, this isn't sustainable. We can't just toss our workforce aside and focus on profits. It's not sustainable. It's literally not sustainable. But the pendulum has really swung. to one end of the spectrum in regards to what we have to offer um and i think hopefully start turning that around and as more and more of us start waking up and start getting in relationship with our our own boundaries our own anger um not a sense of righteousness but what just a sense of like integrity you know a little bit of righteousness but yeah They're getting out, right? Yeah. We want to, we, and there's, you know, I think Elaine, uh, Aaron, um, warns against us getting too self-righteous about this. Cause we can, we can, um, you know, to go back to the Ted Lasso, right? Um, Nate's character, he's HSP in the beginning. He's what I call a disempowered HSP. And then you see him, you know, through, um, standing up for himself. That's the way, you know, he's being more, um, assertive he starts to come into his power but he turns to the dark side he starts you know going a little overboard and then um goes against his own sense of integrity because he gets really self-righteous um and then we see you know spoiler alert if every you know no one's watched Ted Lasso but in the end we see him come back to his integrity and um the connections that he's able to make with the other players. And really, his depth of processing around soccer is his gift. Reading not only the players, but the other opponent's players, that's really his depth of processing, his gift as an HSP. Whereas Ted Lasso's gift as HSP is really bringing out the best, the integrity, the authenticity in the other players. He could care less, really, if he wins a game. He's worried about the integrity of the person and the people he's coaching. So, um, yeah.
Adeel [60:03]: Yeah. Well, that's, those are great. Maybe it's a great thoughts to kind of like, uh, to kind of end on, but, uh, um, but you know, while we wind down anything, anything else you want to share and, you know, uh, you know, you came on two times last time and, uh, I'm definitely not against having you come on, uh, in the, in the near future again to, to expand on anything or talk about anything new, but anything else you kind of want to share now as we, uh, as we kind of, uh, wind down.
Kresta2024 [60:31]: Yeah, so if it's okay, I have a short list of what Elaine Aron recommends for HSPs. I can go over that briefly, and then if it's okay, I'd like to kind of like just kind of catch everyone up on what I've been up to and what's kind of in the works.
Adeel [60:44]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Kresta2024 [60:45]: And we can wrap it up. So Elaine Aron... identifies four areas that HSPs really need in order to thrive in the world. And one is self-knowledge. So that's a big piece of why I want to come on and talk about this topic. If we know we're HSP and we can learn it, there's a ton of YouTube videos out there, you know, eight things that HSPs need to be happy. There's like ones on the dark side of HSPs, HSPs in relationships. There's a lot of dynamics going on, but if you know yourself, know what you are most strongly affected by and what you need to be your best self, that's going to be really important information to discover and to incorporate. So the second thing is reframing, and that's what I was hoping to do today, which is HSP is often overly emotional, super sensitive, blah, blah, blah. No, we've got so much more to offer the world. There's so much more to us that's important. our needs are not that we are being controlling or ridiculous or whatever. You know, we need to negotiate with the people in our lives, but our needs are not ridiculous and we need them for a reason. And so if we could understand that and communicate that, it's not only a reframing for us and what we need, but also for the people in our lives so that they can understand us better and meet us. uh where we need to be met right there's good reasons for all that um the other piece to um for hsps to thrive is healing deeper wounds so this goes back to why a lot of my clients all but one i would say identifies as hsp And that's because HSPs are deep thinking, depth of processing. They are usually drawn to the deeper healing work. And it's very needed, especially if there's childhood trauma. It's going to affect you as an HSP even more. So non-HSP can still be affected by trauma, but it's going to hurt an HSP even more. We're just more affected. by a traumatic childhood. So healing of the deeper wounds is important. And in her book, she goes over the different ways to achieve healing. And depth work is a big one that's probably going to resonate with an HSP because there's usually a spiritual component around it. And that's the work I do. That's the work I'm drawn to. That's why I like IFS because there is a spiritual component to it that just deeply resonated with me and tends to resonate with all my clients. So they are looking to do the deeper work. That's what I want to do. To heck with surface stuff. The other thing is help with feeling okay when out in the world and learning when to be, quote, less out. So I think she's speaking here to knowing what our boundaries are.
Unknown Speaker [63:33]: Thank you.
Kresta2024 [63:33]: A lot of us can be very outgoing, but it drains us. So I'm a very, I'm not an introvert. I would call myself a extroverted introvert, which means I am very comfortable, very outgoing, but after a social engagement, I need a nap. You know, alone time is a really big thing for HSP, a safe place to go where I can process what I've taken in. So help with feeling okay when out in the world. So, you know, from a misophone perspective, having that exit strategy, feeling in control of my environment. You know, when my husband and I would go to a restaurant when I still had misophonia, he gave me control and say over where we would sit and what position I would sit in because then I could pick, hypervigilantly pick, where I would see the fewest people eating, right? Because they would trigger me, right? So having help with that and also learning to be in the world. You know, we don't want to just hide away and isolate, which is especially what a lot of... Misophones do we still need to learn how to be in the world be a part of the world And also know when to bring it back in Right, right So she talks about, um, the importance of that depth work, body work, um, body work, meaning, um, uh, like, uh, that could be anything from, we, we might need some medication help to help our nervous system, uh, you know, calm down if we're, especially for super activated over or overstimulated. Um, massage is often a good thing for us to engage in because we hold so much of our stress and what we've picked up from the world in our body. And then she also highlights the need of really good nutrition because everyone's going to be a little different. But having good nutrition, proper sleep, all those sort of self-regular exercise that are all so important for us on how sort of the ability, the resilience to be out in the world, deal with the world. And especially if we have misophonia, deal with our triggers.
Adeel [65:38]: Yeah. No, all things that are super important come up on the podcast. I try to bring them up on the podcast. Yeah, no, thanks for pointing that out. There is, yeah, there's just never ceases to amaze me how similar there are. Some of these characteristics are between Misophonia and HSP. I think in the future, I wouldn't be surprised if it all becomes merged into a different name or same name or whatever. But a lot of important lessons for both sides. Next, you do also want to talk about kind of what you're working on and kind of what you have coming up. I'm kind of interested. Does this new fancy mic that you have relate to anything you're working on?
Kresta2024 [66:19]: Yeah, I borrowed a mic. I'm doing a test drive. So I'll be curious to see how you feel in editing. Let me know because I can buy one for the next one. Well, I was able to complete, finally, after four years of trying to get into the official IFAS Level 1 training, I was able to complete that, which means I am now looking forward to Level 2 and 3 and go all the way. But it means I'm qualified now to speak on the other podcast, The One Inside. Oh, that's a good one.
Adeel [66:53]: Yes.
Kresta2024 [66:53]: So I'm hoping to, and I have some connections there, so I'm going to be reaching out pretty soon and seeing if she's interested in talking about misophonia and how IFS can help.
Adeel [67:06]: Is her book out? She was doing a book that's kind of a compilation of... essays or something. I got to check it. That was going to come out late last year. It sounded really interesting. Different aspects of IFS.
Kresta2024 [67:19]: Yeah. So altogether us.
Adeel [67:21]: Yeah. That one.
Kresta2024 [67:23]: Yes. That's a great way. I actually just got it. I haven't had a chance to read it, but I did. I got it in the mail like two weeks ago, but yeah, that's incorporating IFS with all sorts of other modalities. So, you know, sensory motor, I mean, the list goes on and on. So much helpful stuff there. And, um, so I'm hoping to spread the word, uh, that way. Um, I've now, I did my workshop. So I think the last time I was saying I was going to do the workshop, I did the workshop. I recorded it. So that's now available for people, um, to watch, um, therapists. It's geared towards therapists, um, mind body therapists specifically. It includes a consultation with me and got some really good feedback from that workshop. I had about 12 people present and about half of them also had misophonia. So it was really great to get their feedback in real time of like, oh yeah, I resonate with this. You know, yes, you're right on the money. Thank you for putting words to this. It's really edifying. And then I recently in December, we had our first what I'm calling a collaboration group. And this is for mind-body therapists who are working with misophonia, who just we want to collaborate. We want to share stories about what we're seeing in our own work, you know, personally or with our clients. and we had a great turnout last time and actually everyone there was not only a mind-body therapist but also had misophonia and some of them had never had a space to talk about their misophonia experience in fact one of them was saying i never thought to work on my misophonia because i just thought it's just something i'm gonna have to live with and getting the perspective that we brought in the group she was like i have hope now like i i think i'm gonna take a deeper look at this now So that's really interesting.
Adeel [69:12]: Yeah.
Kresta2024 [69:13]: Really interesting. And I've had a few other IFS therapists specifically reach out to me on this topic. So the word is getting out. The other bit of big news I'm really excited is Sarah Bidler and I are working on a project. We're calling it the Misophonia Freedom Project. And we are interviewing people who have also sort of found freedom from misophonia. And we're doing an in-depth interview, trying to get some background stories. What was their journey? What was their process? What helped them the most? From a trauma perspective, right, when you're doing trauma work, you're taking in everything such as biological influences, environmental influences, generational influences, cultural differences, societal influence, you know, all those different influences. So in our interviews, we're trying to get the whole picture and see kind of what path was it to finding freedom. And hopefully, we can find some connections to share with others for them to find their own path to freedom. But it's exciting. We have one interview completed. And Sarah and I are both going to post these interviews on our websites. And we've got... two more in the works um and so if anyone listening to this has found their freedom from misophonia and would like to share their story please reach out to either sarah or i um you know we're really we want to focus on the success stories see what they might have in common and you know maybe we can get more help there yeah great project that's exciting yeah i'm looking forward to seeing those and i'll obviously i'll share it through my channels uh
Adeel [70:53]: on the podcast, but also on, on our, my social media. Um, so yeah, that's, that's, that's great. Uh, and yeah, it's usually, um, uh, I think, I think, you know, obviously, you know, I talked to Sarah and it's usually not one thing that kind of helps the people who, um, who have, you know, freedom from misophonia is usually a lot of, a lot of different kinds of work. And so it's good to kind of hear that, that story. So I'm glad that, uh, you've come, you're compiling that information and we'll have it out there for people to, to look at.
Kresta2024 [71:19]: Yeah, it's definitely so far. One thing I'm definitely saying is that it's a journey. It's a journey. There are some key sort of moments in that journey. There is a persistent searching like they didn't give up. And there's layers, layers to the healing.
Adeel [71:38]: And no magic bullet.
Kresta2024 [71:39]: No magic bullet. No magic bullet. But also, you know, the modalities that helped people, they're multitudinous, which should be, I think, hopeful. They're all mind-body. So far, everything I've heard that's been helpful, or at least the most helpful, has connected. mind body spirit sort of work um the deeper deeper brain processes um a lot of it is addressing past trauma that might not have had anything to do with misophonia but um you know the one thing that came up in my own work when in thinking about the misophonia pain response you know another word for pain is hurt and um you know hurt is it can be an emotional hurt um so anything we can do to reduce or release any pain or emotional hurt i think is going to help us it's just going to take the the power out of that trigger response um because the other thing i've heard from people who um i'm thinking one therapist who is self-identified as having misophonia and had a lot of personal trauma but works with trauma so she's done a lot of her own work She doesn't identify as not having misophonia anymore, but she says, you know, it's really reduced a lot. And that's one of the questions that we're going to be asking in this freedom project is what do we call success? Like, what do we call freedom from misophonia? Does it have to be completely gone? Um, or is it, you know, it's reduced to a level where it's tolerable, you know, we can live with it or we can, we can adjust to it without having to like hide from it. Right. So we're going to be feeling into all of that. And, uh, yeah, I'm excited. Yeah.
Adeel [73:22]: Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. Anything, anything else that you're working on? This is a project, the Mississippi Freedom Lab, I'm assuming. And I guess, uh, Sarah's, um, practice.
Kresta2024 [73:35]: Authentic living. Yep.
Adeel [73:37]: And I'd love to have you on again, maybe you and Sarah on later this year to see how that project turns out, especially the feedback you get from the community. Because I think, yeah, there aren't a lot of published stories about... you know people who have kind of um other than like you know some social media posts about people who've kind of like overcome their misophonia um and it's usually when they talk about it um you know it's it's usually in the context of oh this one this one latest thing is the thing that you know did it for me but if you dig deeper there's probably a lot more like you were just saying so um yeah this is a great project and i think there'll be uh hopefully have a big impact this year
Kresta2024 [74:21]: Yeah. Yeah. And I'll say like what you're identifying with, like there's there's more to the story because the thing that frees us from misophonia and I fell for this, too. I thought, oh, you know, brain spotting. That's what gave me freedom. Right. That's what that's the answer.
Adeel [74:35]: Yeah. Eureka. Eureka.
Kresta2024 [74:38]: I'm finding in my own work, very humbly, that it's much more complicated than that. And there's a lot, and this is what we're finding so far in the stories we've heard, is that there's a lot of scaffolding, what we call scaffolding, like preparation work that goes before finding. It's almost like misophony is the last thing to go. And so but I have to say, and this was my journey to like the work, you know, becoming empowered, getting to the point of being empowered is so worth it. If you're an HSP, a lot of us learned to. have a lot of shame around our qualities or how we were. We're too emotional and that's a bad thing. And it's like, no, no, coming into your power, coming into your own authenticity, the world needs that. The world needs you to be in your power, in your authenticity. Yeah, it's so worth it.
Adeel [75:29]: That's really interesting. And yeah, well, we're obviously going on tangents, but I love tangents, philosophical tangents.
Kresta2024 [75:37]: Death of processing, death of processing. Yeah.
Adeel [75:39]: Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with all the things you said about, yeah, in the West, we're told to just kind of like, you know, ignore some of these things or pull yourself up by the bootstraps. But then, you know, I think about, you know, all the times we claim as a society, though, that we're becoming more aware about mental health issues. But when you think about it, I feel like, yeah, maybe we're more aware, but I think most of the... most of it's from very symptom based perspective. It's more about, okay, let's be aware so that we can just kind of on the surface level, get rid of, you know, these things and, and not really dig deep. And so maybe, I think that's, I think that's why we're in so many, you know, we have so many issues in schools and whatnot. Yeah.
Kresta2024 [76:24]: Yeah. Yeah. No, I couldn't agree more. And, and, you know, because a lot of our mental health cares is, And we're seeing even just medicalized insurance companies. only wanna frame it a certain way that they'll pay for it, but we're also seeing struggles within the medical community as well. And Gabor Mate is a huge advocate of this. We need doctors and psychiatrists or psychologists to work together for mind, body, spirit care. Otherwise we're just putting a bandaid on something, throwing a pill at it. And we're just treating a symptom, but not the root of it. And more and more people, I think, while we're seeing this mental health crisis is because we aren't getting to the root of our systemic societal problems. And we're just trying to, like, throw a pill at it. And it's not working. In fact, it's getting worse.
Adeel [77:21]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've noticed that we claim to be more aware about mental health stuff. But if you look at all the statistics, especially what's happening in schools and outside the schools and in politics, yeah, you wouldn't be able to tell that we were more aware about mental health. Yeah, we're more aware of the problem, but there's such... Every time I hear... Well, we claim to be more mindful in all this stuff than go to yoga so that we can pick up our kids at school in front of a fire hydrant really quickly. But I digress on my society.
Kresta2024 [77:56]: I'll say one more thing. I'll get off my soapbox. I know we can get on our soapboxes as HSPs, but not a lot of HSPs in politics. It's too painful. And that's really, I think, where we're missing out the people who are in charge of our changing our systemic problems. are not HSPs. In fact, there's a lot of narcissism in politics at all levels. And because it's kind of what it takes to succeed. And we're really missing out. Like whenever I hear Senate hearings talking about a mental health issue or like trauma issues, sexual abuse or, you know, whatever that is, because that's an area I work in. I just, I'm flabbergasted at how uninformed our politicians are. There's this, it doesn't seem to be any interest in learning the facts or science about it or talking to people who work with those populations and can Or they do. They interview them and they completely discount them. They're like, well, that doesn't make sense. Well, it does make sense if you really understood it. It's very frustrating.
Adeel [79:06]: Yep. Well, yeah, tragic. But yeah, hopefully people like you will get the word out on these issues. maybe we'll have a sanitary on Misophonia. Well, Cresta, I mean, yeah, unless you have anything else you want to share, thanks for coming on. Amazing stuff is always important stuff. And yeah, I wish you the best and definitely we'll be in touch.
Kresta2024 [79:33]: Yes, look forward to it. Thanks for having me on again. It's just lots of love and support to the whole Misophonia community. We're working hard. We're going to get there one of these days. In the meantime, you know, take care of yourselves and know that you are valuable.
Adeel [79:51]: Thank you again, Krista. Always love to chat so much that resonates with my experience. And of course, you know, I love the philosophical tangents. If you liked this episode, don't forget to leave a quick review or just hit the five stars wherever you listen to this podcast. You can hit me up by email at hellomissiforniapodcast.com or go to the website, missiforniapodcast.com. It's even easier just to send a message on Instagram at Missiphoney Podcast. Follow there on Facebook and on Twitter or X, it's Missiphoney Show. Support the show by visiting the Patreon at patreon.com slash missiphoneypodcast. The music, as always, is by Moby. And until next week, wishing you peace and quiet.
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